OT: Heavy Drinkers Outlive Nondrinkers

[gryphon]

http://www.armleg.com/forum/images/smiles/cheers.gif

[Ken Beaumont]

Not if they drive!

 

Light drinkers outlive both. A glass of wine a day.

[Synthoid]

Light drinkers outlive both.

 

This is true...

[ProfD]

I'll take quality of life over longevity and drink just enough to keep the music playing. When it stops, I'm done.

[DanS]

I'll take quality of life over longevity and drink just enough to keep the music playing. When it stops, I'm done.

 

Amen.

Life is too short to drink bad wine!

[Cygnus64]

Heavy Drinkers Outlive Nondrinkers

 

If my past former drinking is included, I will live longer than Methuselah.

[meccajay]

Heavy Drinkers Outlive Nondrinkers

 

Well, only if there liver doesn't explode!

[ITGITC]

Heavy Drinkers Outlive Nondrinkers

 

If my past former drinking is included, I will live longer than Methuselah.

 

DUDE.

 

I don't wanna get into a religious debate here on Keyboard Corner.

 

But the bible says this guy lived 969 years.

 

That's a lot of beer.

[Cygnus64]

But the bible says this guy lived 969 years.

 

That's a lot of beer.

 

Ummm, Beer? Beer's for friggin sissies.

[allan_evett]

Light drinkers outlive both.

 

This is true...

 

Generally: Unless one of us in that particular camp ends up accidentally stepping out in front of a bus, etc., etc....

 

Super heavy drinkers (read: alcoholics, still drinking) - unless they are folks of unusual genetics/incredible physical constitution - often end up exiting the planet before becoming elderly, usually due to their habit. After detoxing twice in her late 20's/early 30's, then staying alcohol free for 17 years, a dear friend from the south Chicago suburbs started drinking heavily again in the summer of '09. She was gone in about a year - having died just 11 days ago.

 

I'm a 'light to moderate' drinker; I can count the number of times I've been truly 'blotto' on one hand. I like a few drinks, but hate the next day after effect of having been drunk; that 'morning after feeling' just ain't my thing. Possibly the subject of another thread (or even another forum, perhaps), but one that's been on my mind since losing my friend: Other than possible biological predisposition, why is it that some of us stay in the light/moderate 'under control' camp, while others end up in the 'frequently drunk, and likely to shorten their life' camp ? For my friend (and former girlfriend of several years) part of it appeared to be a seeming loss of hope in a few, key areas.

 

Not trying to oversimplify a very complex subject, nor trying to be too much the 'heavy' here, just asking some questions right now. Likely, after reading the OP's subject line and resulting discussion, my response is just part of working out what has just happened. But, if it ends up being food for thought here, that could be a good thing.

[Cygnus64]

After detoxing twice in her late 20's/early 30's, then staying alcohol free for 17 years, a dear friend from the south Chicago suburbs started drinking heavily again in the summer of '09. She was gone in about a year - having died just 11 days ago.

 

Sorry to hear this.

 

 

[allan_evett]

After detoxing twice in her late 20's/early 30's, then staying alcohol free for 17 years, a dear friend from the south Chicago suburbs started drinking heavily again in the summer of '09. She was gone in about a year - having died just 11 days ago.

 

Sorry to hear this.

 

 

Thanks, David.

[ProfD]

Not trying to oversimplify a very complex subject, nor trying to be too much the 'heavy' here, just asking some questions right now. Likely, after reading the OP's subject line and resulting discussion, my response is just part of working out what has just happened. But, if it ends up being food for thought here, that could be a good thing.

Allan, the loss of your friend is tragic. Whatever your faith, I hope that your strength will be renewed in recovering from the loss.

 

Definitely a heavy topic. But, without getting too deep, whether real or imagined, expectations, successes, failures, etc., make life hard for some folks. That combined with any type of hereditary trait and/or neurological imbalance can lead to destructive behavior including alcohol abuse.

 

My best friend passed away 2 years ago. He drank EVERY day for 30 years but was not a drunk. He functioned perfectly as an idividual. Alcohol did not kill him but it may have been a contributing factor considering he was a diabetic.

 

Otherwise, whether social, casual or over-the-top alcoholic, folks drink for reasons best left for them to explain. I do believe that if our society was more caring, fewer folks would abuse alcohol and other substances trying to self-medicate.

[Mr. B.]

My Mother-in-law in death do we part, died of cancer due to alcoholism, in death do we part, my wife died of brain cancer not related to alcohol.

 

I wish to God I could drink a bit but I take narcotics for severe back pain from three car accidents from nine years ago. Alcohol wouldn't help the pain at all but I sure would like a good glass of wine or shot of scotch ever so often. I saute with wine every night and I'm so tempted to take a BIG mouth full at times. But, I would so wished I had not if I did. Here's to the drinkers!

[Cygnus64]

After detoxing twice in her late 20's/early 30's, then staying alcohol free for 17 years, a dear friend from the south Chicago suburbs started drinking heavily again in the summer of '09. She was gone in about a year - having died just 11 days ago.

 

Sorry to hear this.

 

 

Thanks, David.

 

It's a pretty good reminder for people like me. I have 6+ years of sobriety, and at this point it's a non-issue and I rarely think about it. Still, if one let's their guard down, this is unfortunately their fate.

[Jeff Klopmeyer]

I have three friends who drank themselves to death before age 30.

 

So much for longevity. I don't drink, but that's because around the time I got into my early 30s, I developed an allergic reaction to alcohol. It wasn't pretty. Through high school and college and my 20s, I drank pretty heavily and had some fun times (those I can remember). But since I have no choice now, I find that I don't miss it at all.

[Ken Beaumont]

My best friend in High School ended up being a drunk. After I saw him beat his wife while drunk I kicked his arse good and never saw him again. Two years later a sensible judge sentenced him to Jackson State penitentiary in Michigan. After his 13th DUI! He and I drank a lot back in the 70's, it would affect him more. The same amount of alcohol in me had a lesser degree of slowed response, lack of coordination and impaired judgment. I gave up the heavy drinking at 20 and joined the Air Force to start a fresh new life. I'm told he is currently homeless. I believe that genetics and certain personality traits he inherited are the differences.

 

I know a guy here in VA, for years people warned him about drinking till he was falling down and then driving. He got away with it for years, earlier this year he killed a tow truck driver. Both these guys shared some of the same traits, got drunk easily and became a real jerk when drunk.

 

I continue to drink but only moderately, never at a gig or when I need to drive.

[Adan]

From what I understand about this latest study, they controlled for all factors (such as economic status, history of alcoholism, etc), and concluded that, all else being equal, heavy drinkers have a lower mortality rate than people who have, for all intents and purposes, never drank. The best available theory to explain this is that alcohol makes people more social, and being social makes for a healthier and longer life. So instead of getting sloshed, go squaredancing instead.

[gryphon]

From what I understand about this latest study, they controlled for all factors...

Correct. It is all explained in the link in the original post. (Hint: if you haven't done it, click on the "cheers" smiley face.)

[Mark Schmieder]

Unless you count Communion, I'm a teetotaller. Maybe that tiny bit on the rare occasion that I still show up in church will be the tipping point towards long life.

 

My teetotaller grandparents lived to 88, 91, and 86 years (the other grandparent, a drinker, died before I was born, of problems related to an air crash that only two other people survived).

 

My great aunt lived to 99 and never touched a drop. My great-grandmother lived to 93, and towards the end of her live had a shot of bourbon each morning on recommendation from her doctor.

 

I've lost several musician friends over the years to cirrhosis of the liver and hepatitis.

 

Everybody's body chemistry and personal well-being are different. Happiness, and especially genetics and good luck (not getting hit by a bus) are probably the biggest contributors to long life. After all, most of those 130-year old survivors that get interviewed now and then, are daily smokers.

 

Conductors live longer than players. Probably due to all the aerobic exercise of being up on the podium. Oboists live the shortest of all, due to all the stale air in their lungs.

[Joe Muscara]

Sorry to hear about your friend, Allan.

 

It's said that the children of addicts are more likely to be addicts themselves. I don't know if the distinction is made for heredity vs. environment, but as far as treatment, it's probably not important.

 

Rocco Prestia and Gregg Allman both needed liver transplants, undoubtedly from abusing them. Richie Hayward was getting close to being put on a list for a new liver when he got double pneumonia and turns out he had adult respiratory fibrosis. This caused him to develop Adult Respiratory Distress Syndrome, which likely meant he would have been on life support for the rest of his life.

 

My point is that all those years of abuse take their toll. Unfortunately, that study's results will be abused by some.

[MikeT156]

My brother was a very heavy drinker. He was impossible to tolerate after he was three sheets to the wind. He died this past spring. He didn't make it to 65 years old.

 

Some people are "happy" drunks, but most are not. One of the things I've noticed about alcohol is that it amplifies your mood. If I'm not in a good mood, I don't drink any alcohol at all. At this stage of my life I might drink some draft beer watching a football game, and I always have food with it when I do. I've gotten away from making a steady habit of drinking over the years. It doesn't always agree with me now that I'm older. Anyway, Diet Pepsi is a lot cheaper.

 

 

 

Cheers, have a Pepsi!

 

 

Mike T.

[Ian Benhamou]

Anyway, Diet Pepsi is a lot cheaper.

 

And probably a lot worse for your health, believe it or not.

 

Just sayin'.

[Cygnus64]

Anyway, Diet Pepsi is a lot cheaper.

 

And probably a lot worse for your health, believe it or not.

 

 

All things are relative. There might be better choices, but if the diet drink keeps the pounds off and keeps the booze in check, it's better than the alternative.

 

 

The key to everything is moderation. Unfortunately, I can't do it. If one goes to an AA meeting, they see that pretty much everybody in the room can't do it. Coffee by the gallon, smokes by the carton, donuts by the box. We're all or nothing people.

[Geoff Grace]

From the article:

 

controlling for nearly all imaginable variables

I'd like to see a list please.

 

For example, what if it turns out that most non-drinkers eat more sugar? Did they study that? I don't know; it didn't mention that in the article. But as we know, sugar has all sorts of health risks when consumed in high doses. Most people habitually eat some foods. What eating habits tend to develop in teetotalers?

 

Did the study follow people who abstain from alcohol but who practice other forms of stress reduction, such as meditation and self-hypnotism? If so, how did they fare?

 

Best,

 

Geoff

[Geoff Grace]

By the way, is anyone else here following Don Draper's descent into alcoholism on Mad Men? Sunday's episode was pretty jarring, especially the scene in which he woke up from a blackout.

 

Best,

 

Geoff

[Eric Iverson]

1. So how many of you drink before (or during) a gig?

 

2. Musicians have a reputation as being drunks and druggies, but I know quite a few musicians who don't do that at all. And some drink or smoke pot in moderation.... It also depends on the environment. If you play in bars all the time, and people send up free drinks, it's hard to stay away from it. If you play in churches, I don't think you could be drinking on the job - maybe Vodka snuck into a coke can, but even then you'd catch hell, or be fired!

I'm not sure how things are if you're a studio musician. If you're a multi-millionaire rock star, you may not HAVE to get the job done quickly. But a lot of situations, as I understand it, require you to get it right the first time, because the clock is ticking! (At least it was that way, in the few times I've worked in a studio.) So maybe one beer to calm the nerves, but you sure can't polish off a bottle of bourbon!

[MikeT156]

I only drink Diet Pepsi when I go to a Sports Bar to watch a football game, instead of drinking beer. I don't have "soda" in my refrigerator at home. I do have some Molson bottles in my refrigerator, but no soda.

 

Eric:

 

We had a discussion about partying when playing gigs some time ago. When I was young and stupid, I drank beer when I played and by the end of the night, it affected my performance. I haven't drank alcohol on a gig in decades. We are being paid to perform and entertain the people, not party.

 

 

Mike T.

[Joe Muscara]

If you play in bars all the time, and people send up free drinks, it's hard to stay away from it.

I saw Ian McLagan deal with this once. Someone sent up a pint, and he had a sip. Then he put it down and didn't touch it the rest of the gig. I think that's a good way to say "thank you" but not proceed to get loaded as there's no point in someone sending you a drink if you have one there in plain view.

 

OTOH, he might have been waiting for that Guinness to get a little warmer.

[Zydecat]

I saw a t-shirt at the Indy 500 years ago that said "Instant Asshole.....Just Add Alcohol." Much later, I figured out that included me, too.

 

I now enjoy an occasional glass of wine or beer with friends and that's it. No more morning after regrets. Being around drunks without being one is a real educational experience.

 

I think each person has their own story. Genetics, learned behavior, chemical imbalances, stress, and many other things interact. And then there's the unavoidable personal responsibility for our actions and their effects.