OT: Idiot Bar Owner Rant

[Meisenhower]

The level of audacity shown by bar owners never ceases to amaze me.

 

Last night, I was playing a gig (that I've had for about 6 weeks now) and after my 50 minute drive and 20 minute setup, I hit the first notes and start.

 

About 30 minutes into my set, the manager comes over to me and whispers that "Ron, the owner" called and said he wanted to "cancel the gig" tonight because it is very, VERY slow and she should give me 50 bucks for my 30 minutes and I should stop and go home.

 

WTF?

 

I politely declined her "offer" and advised that my contract with the bar has a cancellation clause which states the gig can be canceled within 48 hours for any reason and sometime on Tuesday is when that call should have been made.

 

She then goes on to say, that she has no authorization to pay me for the night and couldn't do it. I told her to get Ron on the phone, NOW and I'll have to reason with him.

 

I continue my set, and play for the dozen or so people in the bar and at the break, Ron is on the phone. This "idiot" goes on to tell me that he's losing money having to pay me tonight and with 13 degree weather and snow, it won't get any better later.

 

I naturally told him I understand his "business decision" however the bad weather didn't keep me from driving out, setting up and starting on time, and I also reminded him of our written agreement.

 

His response was "those things don't mean anything in the real world" and we're just musicians.

 

WTF???

 

I finally suggested that he let me finish the night and pay me the full amount as it is in his best interest to do so, as it is the right thing to do (and his toliet won't explode later, just kidding).

 

Another bar owner shows their true colors!!

 

 

************ The end of the story . . . . .

 

Sorry guys, I thought I had finished the story (in my head, I had).

 

He relented and I finished the night, got paid in full and I'll never play for this guy again!

 

 

 

[iLaw]

So did he agree? What happened?

 

Larry.

 

[wmp]

I probably would have said something like, "Paying us will be cheaper than paying your lawyer to make court appearances." If you have a written contract, it should be a slam dunk.

 

That "just musicians" remark really pisses me off, three thousand miles away. If this were my only gig, I'd get my money and blow him off for good.

 

[Phred]

C'mon, tell us the rest of the story...

 

Did he pay you? Did it stay dead all night? Did you lose the gig?

 

 

[ProfD]

That was an unfortunate situation. I hope the end result was positive i.e. compensation and gig intact.

 

However, it also suggests trying to get more folks to come out and listen to live music.

 

Sure, it will fatten up the bar bottom line but also provides some assurance of job security too.

[B3bluesman59]

You had a choice to make...force the issue and hope to get paid the full amount...or take the $50 and go home....and probably lose the gig. My guess is that if you forced the issue you probably did not get paid and probably lost the job too. And for the amount of money involved you really have no recourse other than small claims court. Hiring an attorney would not be financially justifiable.....all this is just my opinion...based on years of dealing with venue owners/managers, etc.

[BillWelcome Home Studios]

Hes right, in the real worth those contracts are for such small amounts of money that they are tough to make it worth your while to enforce. Way back in the day I did pay to have one enforced as a matter of principle. It cost me far more in dollars than was practical.

 

So you get a lawyer and file papers. If you can find a way, you attach some of his property (like his house, if he is stupid enough to be legally exposed in that fashion). But you'll only get paid when he sells the property, or if he settles in court (punitive damages is the key and they vary from state to state...) and you may win the suit but he still may not pay. HOwever! it is always nice to let the news media know about such things, especially college newspapers, local weekly papers, and it never hurts to contact the TV stations, many of which have consumer affairs reporters and human interest reporters who may find such a story to be newsworthy. seeing the local TV station roll into his room, lights blazing,a nd the reporter stuffing a mic into his face might make his think. It is also alright to parade up and down in front of his establishment wearing a sandwich board proclaiming that he is a ripoff. And let us not forget the power of youtube and the fellow who wrote the song about United breaking his guitar. The ball is in your court. You could get famous, and a LOT of bars might want to hire you and people might love to see the guy who took on BarX and made them look foolish internationally.

[area51recording]

The other thing that happens if you take him to court is that you get a local rep for being litigious. This might cause some places to shy away from hiring you, as you now have a rep for suing the venue, even if they feel that what happened was out of their control. Probably not really worth it for a small amount of $$$

[soundwave106]

You had a choice to make...force the issue and hope to get paid the full amount...or take the $50 and go home....and probably lose the gig. My guess is that if you forced the issue you probably did not get paid and probably lost the job too. And for the amount of money involved you really have no recourse other than small claims court. Hiring an attorney would not be financially justifiable.....all this is just my opinion...based on years of dealing with venue owners/managers, etc.

 

Yeah... I'm thinking that if I were in the same shoes, how I would react would depend on whether or not our band is on good terms with the bar owner, and whether or not we really want to play the place again. I know the way our bands would react to such a thing would depend upon whether or not the bar owner was a general jerk.

[wmp]

I would only mention the possibility of legal action as a civilized attempt to collect. I've been in court and seen justice enough times to know that those two things seldom occur at the same time.

 

It wouldn't be prudent to discuss precisely what kind of action I'd take, but it wouldn't be legal action. I'd get my money and burn that bridge at all cost. The "just musicians" remark is enough for me to totally dehumanize the enemy. He'd have to apologize for that on his knees for that one to get me back in to that room. I might make him do it just for fun.

 

Please don't mistake any of this for advice. It's just how I'd react to the same circumstances. Many folks who respond to getting ripped off the way I do wind up getting hurt or going to jail. I can't explain what that hasn't happened to me.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Tonysounds]

Not proud of it (not ashamed of it either), but being a Chicago boy of 18, I and my band had gotten some crap like that when we had a full house of drinkers (many underage of course!, but that didnt stop the owner from serving them and charging them); the owner told us to take him to court and youre not even old enough to be in here, so whatya gonna do, call the cops? So I took the meager $$ he gave us, went back and paid the guys, and instructed them and our helpers to each grab a bottle of liquor from the storeroom (which was where we had to drag our gear in and out) on the way out to the cars with every trip. He really should have just paid us, because when it was all said and done, we had collected something like 14 bottles of Jack, 4 bottles of rum, 2 bottles of Southern Comfort, 5 bottles of gin, another 5 bottles of Seagrams, 9 bottles of Smirnoff, 6 cases of OldStyle and 4 cases of Heineken, and a box of beer mugs. He owed us more than that, but Im sure it was a little inconvenient for him the next day when he went to restock the bar and couldnt. Funny thing was, he didnt call the cops either. Our rehearsal pad was Party Central for months.

 

We seriously considered having T-shirts made with our logo on the front (Straight Up), and our new motto on the back: The band that takes things.

 

 

 

[raddtunes]

To the OP - I/we feel your pain.

 

A conversation like this naturally brings up things like lawsuits, inflicting bad publicity, etc.

 

My experience with this kind of stuff, is that after you get over/past the fact that you were MAJORLY DISSED - - you have to then just ask realistically if this incident terminates your relationship with this club - - or if it's an opportunity to strengthen your relationship. Either is possible - depending on the club first, but then how you pursue it.

 

If the club is truely tanking, then your relationship is over. If the club owner continues to treat you, others, this way, then then relationship is over.

 

But please consider this - - they presented you with a scenario that seems to be logical - and perhaps we're all accepting this logic - - "business is slow, we can't afford you tonight."

 

Well, not exactly.

 

I HIGHLY DOUBT that in the big financial picture of this club, that your fee is a significant factor either way. This scenario is illogical, and they are being irrational. (plus rude, disrespectful, etc.)

 

So if it's possible to have a continued relationship with this club - - and if you want one, you need to determine - as best you can - - what their REAL problem is, and whether or not they would feel comfortable sharing with you a little bit, and whether or not they feel you are sympathetic and could offer a little help. (which is not bending over for them, but not posturing yourself for a fight either).

 

As I've gotten older - - and hopefully wiser - when people present me with illogical scenarios that are supposed to be completely logical, the best thing I can do sometimes is just give them the most friendly, sympathetic, groovy - - quiet stare. No words - but a face that says "I love you man . . uh . . how on earth can you expect me to believe this shit, and how long do I need to keep this face on for you to tell me what's really up?"

 

Not at all unlike when a spouse screams at you about sox on the floor, when she's really mad at you about something you did last month.

 

So - what is the real issue with this club? Your fee is not a lot of money, but it is a very conspicuous allocating of funds. Has he had to cut employees - making them work hardere, or has he cutback pay of all employees?

 

Is he overwhelmed with bills? Is the club upside down - - etc, etc.

 

Why does he think he can just "cancel" you? - - you would have to factor in that as a musician, we ALL inherit a legacy of lots of unprofessional, imature behavior on the part of our colleagues - past + present.

 

Your thoughts?

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Meisenhower]

Actually, during my discussions with him, I was pretty clear about how lousy this would reflect on him around the music community, and Facebook, Myspace, Craigslist and everyone else I would tell about this "breach of contract".

 

I certainly can appreciate the economics behind his decision to "cut back" and had he called me on Tuesday (as per our contract), there would have been no harm, no foul. What frosted my can was his caviller attitude that it was ok in his mind to pay me 1/6th of my fee, after the gig had already started, just to send me home AND his attitude that he could crap all over me, just because I'm a musician.

 

At the end of it all, it wouldn't be worth the time, energy or expense to sue the guy had he not paid me and fortunately it didn't come down to that.

 

Had he not paid, I have a VERY large friend who tends to break toilets when he sits on them, HARD and I would have happily bought him dinner and drinks, provided he used this guy's bathroom. Plumbers ARE expensive.

 

Since I won't work for this guy ever again, (but I don't consider that losing a gig, but avoiding someone with demonstrated deadbeat tendencies) it's sort of a non-issue for me. This club was not part of my usual rotation and was a bit out of the way for me. It wasn't a bad gig, pleasant patrons and a nice room. Once this guy demonstrated the way he chooses to operate, I'll just say no. There's enough other work out there to replace it.

[raddtunes]

(but I don't consider that losing a gig, but avoiding someone with demonstrated deadbeat tendencies)

 

That's a great way to look at it. I'm curious, if you don't mind - was this incident with you a one-time thing, or is this a pattern of how this club owner handles himself?

[Meisenhower]

(but I don't consider that losing a gig, but avoiding someone with demonstrated deadbeat tendencies)

 

That's a great way to look at it. I'm curious, if you don't mind - was this incident with you a one-time thing, or is this a pattern of how this club owner handles himself?

 

I can't say, as besides getting hired and chatting with him on my first evening, it was the only interaction I've ever had with him. I haven't heard any "bad press" about this owner previously, but it only takes one bad time to make me think twice about dealing with him again.

 

FWIW, This is only the 2nd time in 30 years that someone has tried to stiff me on a gig, and I was 18 the last time.

[J. Dan]

I've had people want to cut a deal on nights where there's a blizzard and it's slow and that sort of thing. But usually it's more like them asking us if we'd be willing to cut them a break and knock off early... big difference.

 

I think I'm going to call my cable company and say - ah, yeah, I didn't watch TV today so you need to credit my bill $10. I know you still sent the signal to my house, but I wasn't home so I just couldn't watch it.

[Bobadohshe]

Not proud of it (not ashamed of it either), but being a Chicago boy of 18, I and my band had gotten some crap like that when we had a full house of drinkers (many underage of course!, but that didnt stop the owner from serving them and charging them); the owner told us to take him to court and youre not even old enough to be in here, so whatya gonna do, call the cops? So I took the meager $$ he gave us, went back and paid the guys, and instructed them and our helpers to each grab a bottle of liquor from the storeroom (which was where we had to drag our gear in and out) on the way out to the cars with every trip. He really should have just paid us, because when it was all said and done, we had collected something like 14 bottles of Jack, 4 bottles of rum, 2 bottles of Southern Comfort, 5 bottles of gin, another 5 bottles of Seagrams, 9 bottles of Smirnoff, 6 cases of OldStyle and 4 cases of Heineken, and a box of beer mugs. He owed us more than that, but Im sure it was a little inconvenient for him the next day when he went to restock the bar and couldnt. Funny thing was, he didnt call the cops either. Our rehearsal pad was Party Central for months.

 

We seriously considered having T-shirts made with our logo on the front (Straight Up), and our new motto on the back: The band that takes things.

 

 

 

That is inspirational!

[JeffLearman]

Ed, since the guy did pay you, you might consider booking there again. After all, while he had a bad impulse, he did do the right thing in the end.

[JeffLearman]

I've had people want to cut a deal on nights where there's a blizzard and it's slow and that sort of thing. But usually it's more like them asking us if we'd be willing to cut them a break and knock off early... big difference.

Absolutely. There's nothing wrong with giving you the option.

[BillWelcome Home Studios]

I've had people want to cut a deal on nights where there's a blizzard and ....

 

 

I think that it is smart business to work with the owner. But I also think that it is fair to ask, when approached like this, if he had ever considered throwing your band a little extra cash when he has a fabulous night.

[BillWelcome Home Studios]

The other thing that happens if you take him to court is that you get a local rep for being litigious.

 

bull___t.

 

besides, even if true, what is the downside? That you won't get ____, so if a bar owner plans to ____ with you he should think twice?

[J. Dan]

I've had people want to cut a deal on nights where there's a blizzard and ....

 

 

I think that it is smart business to work with the owner. But I also think that it is fair to ask, when approached like this, if he had ever considered throwing your band a little extra cash when he has a fabulous night.

 

Yeah, they'll never give you MORE cash. But we've cut deals a time or two - it's rare. But goodwill in those situations goes a long way, and I think overall has helped us maintain good relationships and keep busy while getting pretty good price increases year over year. It kind of comes down to what I've said in the past about the bar owner feeling like you are part of a team to make the bar as much money as you can and make the business successful. But Bill, you are right in that the band should be entiltled to share in the profits if you are successful. We do this through annual price increases.

[GDP]

besides, even if true, what is the downside? That you won't get ?????, so if a bar owner plans to ????? with you he should think twice?

 

HEY DUDE!....Ease up!...Do you think you could watch the language here?....if you cannot express yourself properly please refrain, I often refer young students here and it would be nice if descent language could prevail.

 

If necessary, please refer to the forum policies on profanity.

[Dave Horne]

I think the attitudes regarding profanity are much more relaxed in Europe than the US. Because the swear words (fuck, shit, etc.) are English, they do not have the same impact in Dutch for example. (Oyarsa, are you writing from outside the US?)

 

I've seen the words fuck and shit on the front page of Dutch newspapers and the Dutch don't get upset. They might get slightly upset at Dutch swear words being used on Dutch TV though. I think the impact of the words has diminished over time with their frequent use.

 

I for one enjoy Bill's posts and his direct manner of writing.

[area51recording]

The other thing that happens if you take him to court is that you get a local rep for being litigious.

 

bullshit.

 

besides, even if true, what is the downside? That you won't get fucked, so if a bar owner plans to fuck with you he should think twice?

 

You know, it's fine if you don't agree w/me. You don't have to be an a-hole about it though. I'm just saying that it's a POSSIBILITY it might cost you work in a given market. IMO that's the downside. It's not necessarily that a bar owner would want to f#ck w/you, they just may feel that if they book you, and something happens to the gig that they may be leaving themselves open to litigation. If you can't see that side of it then maybe it IS Bullsh*t. It's also just my opinion.

[bloodyMary]

I don't care about swear words, but would rather not use 'em on the forum, since it's a 'family forum'. And it could get blocked by some filtering software (in schools, for example).

[Chris Link]

I think the attitudes regarding profanity are much more relaxed in Europe than the US. Because the swear words (fuck, shit, etc.) are English, they do not have the same impact in Dutch for example. (Oyarsa, are you writing from outside the US?)

 

I've seen the words fuck and shit on the front page of Dutch newspapers and the Dutch don't get upset. They might get slightly upset at Dutch swear words being used on Dutch TV though. I think the impact of the words has diminished over time with their frequent use.

 

I for one enjoy Bill's posts and his direct manner of writing.

 

This is a really interesting observation. I'll bet it happens all over. Very funny. I wonder if it's because the editorial people "know" the English word, but it doesn't have the same impact as native language "bad words" that we all learn as children.

[JMcS]

I've seen the words xxxx and yyyy on the front page of Dutch newspapers and the Dutch don't get upset.

 

I bet there are some types of cartoons you don't see in the papers much any more though.

[GDP]

(Oyarsa, are you writing from outside the US?)

 

I for one enjoy Bill's posts and his direct manner of writing.

 

Dave, I am in the US....but would like, if at all possible, to keep the forum family friendly.

 

Hey I think Bill is a well informed and experienced contributor as well.....no beef there......nothing personal here at all....lets just move on.

[BillWelcome Home Studios]

Well, you guys know me, and I'd rather make my point than rerail the discussion. So I appologize to anyone that my language offended, while hoping that they get the point.

 

You should NEVER be afraid of standing up for yourself when you are right. Let the young students understand THAT.

 

How you choose to do that could affect your future... the suggestion that it was cool to steal bothered me more than I can say, and I certainly would not want to have been standing up in court as a defendant trying to justify my actions as 'he deserved it' or somesuch. That is just foolish.