OT: Idiot Bar Owner Rant

[BillWelcome Home Studios]

... But we've cut deals a time or two - it's rare. But goodwill in those situations goes a long way, and I think overall has helped us maintain good relationships ....

 

That is important to understand. It is not cut and dried. There are times when it is a one hand washing the other situation, and you bend a little. But it should never be done because of pressure, or fear, and if you are going to get into this business, you need to be a business person with a business attitude, or you will just get hosed.

 

And if you fear getting a rep for taking a bar owner to court when he cheats you, imagine the rep that you'll get if you DON'T.

[Eric Jx]

My 2 cents regarding law suits.

 

In my day job, I've had to bring clients to small claims court, and have been fairly successful with it.

 

Had the OP not prevailed he would have been out $250. Many of you are suggesting that litigation isn't worth the effort to collect $250. I disagree. It is likely that when the venue owner gets the summons to appear, he'd rather just pay the bill than be bothered treking down to court for a case he knows he will lose.

 

Some guys just don't care and will never show up. In those cases you're almost assured that the judge will rule in your favor.

 

Once you have a judgement most people will just pay up to end the situation.

 

 

[Tonysounds]

If necessary, please refer to the forum policies on profanity.

 

How Oyarsa, how about going in and editing THIS quote now that Bill has done the same courtesy? I never saw his swear words, but now I seem then in your quote bold and red!!!

[GDP]

Done

[SpaceNorman]

I'm all for standing up for my rights and all that - but in this case I'd have taken the $50, commisurated a little with the manager about how slow it was and then called it a night. I don't know about the OP's situation - but there aren't soo many gigs in my neck of the woods that I'm willing burn bridges lightly.

 

There's little room to debate the OP's being within his rights to enforce the contract - and complete his night of playing to empty chair and collecting his full pay while the bar owner stews over his loss. However, it sounds like this was a steady gig, with reasonable expectation of future work - and bad weather (not just a slow night....). I'd have worked with guy - ate the couple of unpaid/played hours (knowing the $50 covered my hard cash out of pocket expenses) and booked a half dozen future dates cause I was a guy the bar could work with.

 

The OP stood up for himself, got his full pay for 1 night, left his customers fuming - and has to pound the pavement to replace a steady gig.

 

To each his own I guess.

[Meisenhower]

I'm all for standing up for my rights and all that - but in this case I'd have taken the $50, commisurated a little with the manager about how slow it was and then called it a night. I don't know about the OP's situation - but there aren't soo many gigs in my neck of the woods that I'm willing burn bridges lightly.

 

There's little room to debate the OP's being within his rights to enforce the contract - and complete his night of playing to empty chair and collecting his full pay while the bar owner stews over his loss. However, it sounds like this was a steady gig, with reasonable expectation of future work - and bad weather (not just a slow night....). I'd have worked with guy - ate the couple of unpaid/played hours (knowing the $50 covered my hard cash out of pocket expenses) and booked a half dozen future dates cause I was a guy the bar could work with.

 

The OP stood up for himself, got his full pay for 1 night, left his customers fuming - and has to pound the pavement to replace a steady gig.

 

To each his own I guess.

 

Space Norman, if you wish to take a pay cut from $300 to $50 for the nights work (which includes setup and tear down), that is your prerogative. In my opinion, doing this devalues your services and allows an obvious wrong to perpetuate and you have now set a very bad precedent with the bar owner (and also circumvented your own contract).

 

As far as "gig's in my neck of the woods", I have enough to keep me busy without the need for a business relationship with someone I can't trust to keep their word. The gig has already been replaced.

 

I don't see where there were any bridges burned here, as it is my choice not to continue with this gig, not his ( I've already been asked to come back, but decided against it).

 

You talk about "reasonable expectation" and one of those for me is that my contract will be fulfilled as written. There was no "cold weather" clause, just like there isn't any "standing room only" bonus when it's busier than normal and the register is overflowing with cash. I don't know where you live, but we're entering the time of year when 13 degree weather is not that uncommon in the midwest and that shouldn't have any bearing on the night's entertainment schedule. Anticipation of 15 inches of snow might mean a phone call, the day of the gig based on the weather report, and I would likely have understood and canceled with no penalty.

 

My night wasn't playing to empty chairs, as there were still a dozen or so patrons happily eating and drinking during my set, and there were no "fuming customers" as you eluded to (why would there be, they didn't know there was any behind the scene's drama unfolding).

 

Once again, if you choose to eat a night of driving, setup, tear down and some playing for $50, that is your choice. My time is worth more than that.

 

If you would happily book a half dozen more gigs with the same person who has already demonstrated a willingness to screw with you, then you reap what you will sew. I won't and don't have the need to.

 

You're parting comment was simply misguided and only half right. I stood up for myself and got my full pay, but my patrons were happy I was there (they may not be so happy when the come back next week to someone else) and I've already replaced the gig starting the beginning of January.

 

All in all, I'm fine with how things worked out.

 

 

[Bill H.]

I believe that there are no hard and fast rules about these things and it's all a case by case basis. And I think that the above two posts illustrate that.

 

I have a similar story. This was last January and there was a blizzard outside. As I was setting up, the manager approached me and offered me $50 not to play because there was no one in the lounge other than a handful of video poker players. He wanted to close as soon as they left. I gladly took it just so I could get out of there myself.

 

It's a room that I've worked off and on for over 10 years. I wasn't going to stamp my feet and demand full pay - not with these guys and with this situation.

 

There have also been a few times in my past where I've been offered less just because it's a slow night. I negotiate for the most that I can, pack up, and never return. I don't litigate or threaten. It's just not worth it for me to harbor a bunch of anger and resentment, and have all that stomach acid churn around for a night's pay - which I may not get anyway. I try my best to just drop it so I can get on with my life. Life's too short - - -

 

But I know that everyone's different on that one.

[allan_evett]

Not proud of it (not ashamed of it either), but being a Chicago boy of 18, I and my band had gotten some crap like that when we had a full house of drinkers (many underage of course!, but that didnt stop the owner from serving them and charging them); the owner told us to take him to court and youre not even old enough to be in here, so whatya gonna do, call the cops? So I took the meager $$ he gave us, went back and paid the guys, and instructed them and our helpers to each grab a bottle of liquor from the storeroom (which was where we had to drag our gear in and out) on the way out to the cars with every trip. He really should have just paid us, because when it was all said and done, we had collected something like 14 bottles of Jack, 4 bottles of rum, 2 bottles of Southern Comfort, 5 bottles of gin, another 5 bottles of Seagrams, 9 bottles of Smirnoff, 6 cases of OldStyle and 4 cases of Heineken, and a box of beer mugs. He owed us more than that, but Im sure it was a little inconvenient for him the next day when he went to restock the bar and couldnt. Funny thing was, he didnt call the cops either. Our rehearsal pad was Party Central for months.

 

We seriously considered having T-shirts made with our logo on the front (Straight Up), and our new motto on the back: The band that takes things.

 

 

 

I'd feel much the same, Tony: not proud, nor ashamed.

There are times when the way to deal with jerks who rip you off/take advantage is to creatively find a workaround to 'balance' things out. Speaking from experience: being a 'nice guy' all of the time makes one predictable, boring, and often left on the side of the road - beaten up, and with empty pockets. You attempted to take a stand, got shot down, so you got a bit creative and evened things out a bit. Under the circumstances, I agree with Bobadohshe: Inspirational !

 

I feel no obligation whatsoever to treat ethically those who abuse their power/position of authority.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[SpaceNorman]

You're parting comment was simply misguided and only half right. I stood up for myself and got my full pay, but my patrons were happy I was there (they may not be so happy when the come back next week to someone else) and I've already replaced the gig starting the beginning of January.

 

All in all, I'm fine with how things worked out.

 

Misguided? The last time I checked - the guy who hands over the cash is the customer - and the guy that needs to be kept happy. Keeping a dozen diners happy, while admirable - doesn't necessarily translate to having a happy customer. Chances are good - in addition to your fee - your demand that your contract be honored likely kept a waitress, a manager and a busboy on the clock for longer that he would have had he of been able to close up early.

 

Like I said - to each his own. I'd have handled it different.

[wmp]

I have a similar, but much uglier old war story about taking liquor for compensation. We weren't at all sneaky, polite, or careful about it. Too ugly to tell. Same deal. Not proud, nor ashamed.

 

Being flexible isn't always a bad thing, but some folks don't deserve the courtesy. This guy felt like he could arbitrarily change the deal and dictate terms that violated the terms a written contract after all the schlepping and driving was done. I think he may have managed to squeeze four strikes into one sentence. I have no respect for you, I have no respect for our agreement, I don't care what it cost you to keep your part of the agreement, I can push you around, I am better than you, musicians do not deserve respect.

 

It's good that you got your money without much heartburn and blew this jerk off. My only hope of getting out of this world with a perfect record (no confirmed kills) is to recognize people like this before they annoy me too badly and run like hell.