keyboards reviews etc

[delirium]

I have recently read few reviews of keyboards in magazines and also online, among the others the RD700GX and I felt like I was reading factory specification or brochure with few extra plauditory comments. Non a single critical word, everything is great and super...In case of RD700GX I know from my experience it is not all that great. Im sorry but if I am to buy a keyboard Id rather come to forum like this and read regular users opinions then rely on such reviews. I understand though if you get a free keyboard to write review for a month or two, or even possibility to keep it for a low price its hard to grumble about it. In any review the most important for me part is critical section, and if there is none - it is suspicious.

 

Well, just my opinion about so called reviews, sometimes even called professional reviews which I dont find informative at all. BTW it happens often with other gear too.

 

[Legatoboy]

your right! not saying I know anything for sure because I don't except for 1 thing 20 years ago! funny I was working in international banking systems at the time. it was alittle on the s(w)treet side in terms of said publication (I think).

 

there is that(and always will be I think), but I also think it's become such big business on top of that. It's become like the Auto Show! The thing is I think the old reviews were about instruments, that looking back were developing in a new strange world in terms of keyboard electronics and music and musical demands. Very unevolved possibly (epically market wise), so all that was more necessary(it was just a more noble time for it), but now it's pattern driven like everything else, it's moder-marketing!

 

The thing is I went though agony trying to make the RD700Sx work for me, that's what made me get a Motif ES rack ($ (2)). I could not get that piano to work (for me understood , understood) for months m.... I just had to assume someone would be, or had been having similar problems. I'm odd and everything else.... but I'm not that odd!

 

it's like a microcosm of everything else going on... I just nod up and down and laugh!

 

[SilverDragonSoun]

I agree that many (not all) reviews seem to either lack a complete perspective or seem bias in some way. Case in point, the Alesis Fusion got glowing reviews but very little if any mention of the issues surrounding it. Secondly and more recently the fantom G. Its getting glowing reviews and none of the ones I've read so far mnetion anything about the ongoing number of issues with it. This is why so many people question the bias aspect of reviews. I know the people that give reviews get pissed but these type of reviews are the things that cause issues for everyone.

[Song80s]

keyboards, and audio equipment is extremely subjective

 

From the written word perspective, you simply cannot duplicate the sensation of a live/demo experience with a new keyboard

 

Plus some makes don't appeal to a player.

 

Lots of folks love Nord keyboards. They simply don't grab me.

 

It seems to me, that once you reach a level of experience and/or have strong preferences, choices are not that complex.

 

Plus the chances are not good, that the reviewer and I will agree 80% of the time on a new board

 

 

 

[magronbass]

well, the way I see it, if the pr department contacts a writer, or through whatever means, a company goes through the trouble of getting a board to a magazine, they wouldn't do it to be hammered on. If they knew someone was going to write criticism, then you just don't send one. Pretty simple if you ask me.

 

Just like websites and blogs. If something awesome happens on your website, or if you start a new web based business, you tell blog writers you know will write good things. No body gives a darn about critical writers.

 

So, natural selection. Write good stuff and live? Or not. Everyone else is raving about every piece of equipment that ever hits the market. You better find something to rave about. If not, just copy and paste the brochure copy. That's been pre-approved so there's no worries.

[eric]

Gear reviews are one avenue to learn about things you are considering for purchase. Keep in mind that printed media is all about squeezing max content into minimal space, so it is nearly impossible for a review to write page after page of detailed critique. It is all about encapsulating the salient points into the space available, shedding light on the pros, cons and some subjective viewpoints.

 

The value is that you take these along with internet opinions, join them up with your own feelings after demos on the instrument in question and you can true things up to make your decision.

 

There has never been a time in history that is so rich with available content to help inform people.

[delirium]

such biased reviews have NO sense.

 

I don't want here to give a magazine or author name here...

[Moonglow]

Gear reviews are one avenue to learn about things you are considering for purchase. Keep in mind that printed media is all about squeezing max content into minimal space, so it is nearly impossible for a review to write page after page of detailed critique. It is all about encapsulating the salient points into the space available, shedding light on the pros, cons and some subjective viewpoints.

 

The value is that you take these along with internet opinions, join them up with your own feelings after demos on the instrument in question and you can true things up to make your decision.

 

There has never been a time in history that is so rich with available content to help inform people.

+1, Eric.

 

I tend to favor product reviews because they provide a convenient, initial framework of evaluative reference points which I can support or reject upon the collection of additional information. The dual-edged politics of publishing product reviews has probably been around since the beginning of advertising history, and I personally find contemplation of such dynamics to be an exercise of futility. Product reviews will always remain within these constraints, and this will be difficult to modify. However, as with many decisions, the more information available the better, and while structurally flawed, I often find that a substantial proportion of information from reviews can lead to the development of testable hypotheses in the product evaluation/selection process.

[bloodyMary]

I trust user reviews (harmony central is a good place) more than 'pro' reviews.

[mcgoo]

I trust user reviews (harmony central is a good place) more than 'pro' reviews.

 

I tend to disagree. As has been pointed out in another thread, a user may be somewhat biased and have a desire to validate their own buying decision. 2ndly, a user may not be an expert & may knock a machine for not being able to do things that it actually can do, that the user simply hasn't discovered yet.

 

I want to know that a review I read is written by a working musician and a total music technology geek. I think the Keyboard reviewers fit that bill pretty well.

[Legatoboy]

I think the reviews were, and I've been a Keyboard reader since 1978, alittle more 'critical' in the old days to be honest as Delirium mentions. It's true. If something was clugy, slow, bug-i or just didn't work well or was cut back, it was mentioned more regularly in the instrument reviews. But then you had Bucula's (sp) and alot more exotic instruments being reviewed in one issue. It was more of an open-minded world in general 25 years ago.

 

I think Del is right to some degree. My point is that the industry was in a different state of development 20 years ago. If every mfg-er is offering 1 Midi out on their 88 key flagship stage piano, then that becomes the standard and it doesn't get mentioned again in reviews. It probably should, and it used to with more regularity. Things like that. I think that's the kind of stuff Delirium is talking about if I understand him correctly.

 

If the band I play in gets too many glowing CD/performance reviews we usually get alittle weary about that. It makes us sound too good and we feel people get suspicious about that. Same here, for whatever reason weather it's a relationship with the mfg-er or the current trend in publication and/or the editing field (which I know is in hard times through a close friend who is an editor), it does become alittle bit like the Auto Show without critical balance!

 

 

 

 

[jook]

I trust user reviews (harmony central is a good place) more than 'pro' reviews.

 

I tend to disagree. As has been pointed out in another thread, a user may be somewhat biased and have a desire to validate their own buying decision. 2ndly, a user may not be an expert & may knock a machine for not being able to do things that it actually can do, that the user simply hasn't discovered yet.

That's definitely true. Along with the wealth of information on the Internet, comes the flood of mis-information. So much user-submitted information out there are simply wrong, and one person spreads it to the next, even less qualified person. Things often get blown out of proportions.

 

Technical issues is a common case in point, and I'd take the opposing angle to SilverDragonSound's post above. Although I understand his point, and I've often detected that same omission in professional reviews ... I can imagine a half reasonable justification. That is, many common technical issues are expected to be ironed out by the time of production. Most reviewers get pre-release products, where things are not finalized. Their reviews however, will stick around to represent their publication's standing on this product. Given this perspective, you can imagine minor technical issues being looked over or understated. I don't think its right to omit them all together. I think some magazines have done the right thing in noting them in a separate box with the disclaimer that "the manufacturer has promised us that these issues will be fixed in the release", etc.

 

Now having said that, the kicker is the "Internet mob mentality" that blows technical issues out of proportion. It often sounds like a 10 year old with his/her first purchase from his well earned pocket money, "I PAID for this thing! I DEMAND the manufacturer listen to exactly what I claim it should do, and it better work EXACTLY as I IMAGINE, or WAH WAH WAH WAH..."

 

Don't get me wrong... some really bad faults deserve slagging. Unreasonable conditions for warranty, etc. are deserve attention. It's a case-by-case thing. But I've often seen minor incidents that you would think should be brought up with the Support/Warranty department of the product in question instead. If your fridge stopped working, do you go on the Fridge Forum and post about it there? Or if your car's air conditioning is faulty?

 

More than that, would be usage issues ("I can't work this out, this sucks"), or design decisions that don't match your own ("I can't believe they made it do THIS... obviously they should do THIS... why don't they ask ME... I'm REALLY IMPORTANT").

 

Here's the thing with professional reviews - learn to read between the lines. Work out what was NOT mentioned in the review. Think about why that would not be mentioned. If it says, "this isn't the best sounding board, but it's good enough for anybody - give it a try and you might like it" - I'd read that as a pretty negative review of the sound.

 

[Joe Muscara]

Eric, you're reply was very diplomatic.

 

I honestly feel that the reason most Keyboard reviews are positive is that most of the available gear is pretty good at this point. Look at the modern stable of clonewheels. Are any of them bad? Apparently not. They all range from good (possibly very good) to great.

 

Also, like Eric said, there's limited space and limited time. Perhaps the author of the Fusion didn't hit the problems in the time he wrote the review, or dismissed them with a "an updated OS should be available by the time you read this."

 

As far as user reviews on the Internet, I have three words. Grain of salt. Maybe I should say BIG grain of salt. There is so much bias and agenda in those, it's crazy. I do read them, but you really have to watch out for a few people who might make a big deal out of what may mean nothing to you. They can be useful, however, for spotting what might be real problems with shipping versions. And as a person who used to work for a very small software company, they're also useful for indicating whether some people understood the product at all. Then we had to figure out if that was our fault or theirs.

[cnegrad]

I've had both good and bad experience with magazine reviews. I think the most I've disagreed with a review was over the product called "Lounge Lizard". I shot hundreds of dollars on it, and it was a complete waste of time and money for me. But that said, I've come to realize something about mag reviews:

 

1. They are just a starting point in your research. They are no replacement for your own hands-on research.

 

2. Often gear is only compared to comparable gear in it's price range. So it may be great compared to other gear in it's price range, but not compared to gear in a higher price range.

 

3. Opinions are subjective, even when written by Keyboard writers, Two people can completely disagree on anything, even when they are Keyboard magazine writers.

 

4. This is not Consumer Reports that we're talking about. Reviewers may have insufficient time to do a major in-depth analysis that discovers all the bugs and weaknesses that are foremost on your mind. Particular aspects of gear that may be absolutely crucial to you may be an afterthought to someone else.

 

5. Start over from #1.

 

Lose the hostility, y'all. It's a magazine, not your own personal gear detective. Do you complain to your other magazines and newspapers when you disagree with their biased news reports and movie reviews?

[delirium]

Do you complain to your other magazines and newspapers when you disagree with their biased news reports and movie reviews?

 

sure I do, and will never read them again

[MikeT156]

A lot of how a review comes across depends upon the individual reviewer and his/her experiences and qualifications. I believe that Keyboard has excellent people doing the reviews. Eric makes some good points, especially the lack of space available to do a review. I don't think that just blasting a new KB does anyone any good. I do like things that are missing, buggy, or other possible undesirable things about a new board to be mentioned though. Manufacturers can't address something that they don't know it is perceived as a problem by potential buyers. I tend to ignore website user reviews that have nothing nice to say about anyone or any instrument. That demonstrates a personal problem with the writer, not the instrument.

 

Mike T.

[Outkaster]

And HC is not that great of a place to read reviews unless they are written by the four of five guys on there that are in the trenches gigging and performing. No 20 year old kid is going to teach me about a Hammond clone that has not even played the real thing.

[delirium]

Eric makes some good points, especially the lack of space available to do a review.

 

excuses, excuses...while we all know it's politics and corruption.

[Floyd Tatum]

I trust user reviews more than 'pro' reviews.

 

I approach both user and pro reviews with an equal measure of skepticism.

[MikeT156]

Quote by Dilirium:

 

"excuses, excuses...while we all know it's politics and corruption."

 

Cynic!

 

Mike T.

[ITGITC]

Eric makes some good points, especially the lack of space available to do a review.

 

excuses, excuses...while we all know it's politics and corruption.

 

My friend delirium,

 

If you already knew that "it's politics and corruption", then why did you ask the question in the first place?

 

Seriously.

 

Tom

 

[cnegrad]

It's not as if Delirium is open to opposing viewpoints...

[MikeT156]

I can understand Delirium, I like to stir the pot, he likes to make it BOIL OVER!

 

Mike T.

[cnegrad]

SilverDragonSound,

Secondly and more recently the fantom G. Its getting glowing reviews and none of the ones I've read so far mnetion anything about the ongoing number of issues with it.

What issues are you referring to? I'm looking at the new Fantoms and would really like to know.

[Synthoid]

This is not Consumer Reports that we're talking about. Reviewers may have insufficient time to do a major in-depth analysis that discovers all the bugs and weaknesses that are foremost on your mind.

 

It would be nice if Consumer Reports did review keyboards and professional music gear.

 

 

 

[cnegrad]

And there should be peace on earth and an end to world hunger too, while you're at it.

[ProfD]

For some reason, this thread reads like a personal attack. KC doesn't get down like that.

[ITGITC]

For some reason, this thread reads like a personal attack. KC doesn't get down like that.

 

This is a picture of TOM. He is sitting on his hands and trying very hard not to speak.

 

Tom could use a beer now.

 

Please pass the beer.

 

 

 

 

[Blue JC]

I have recently read few reviews of keyboards in magazines and also online, among the others the RD700GX and I felt like I was reading factory specification or brochure with few extra plauditory comments. Non a single critical word, everything is great and super...In case of RD700GX I know from my experience it is not all that great. Im sorry but if I am to buy a keyboard Id rather come to forum like this and read regular users opinions then rely on such reviews. I understand though if you get a free keyboard to write review for a month or two, or even possibility to keep it for a low price its hard to grumble about it. In any review the most important for me part is critical section, and if there is none - it is suspicious.

 

Well, just my opinion about so called reviews, sometimes even called professional reviews which I dont find informative at all. BTW it happens often with other gear too.

 

I think that you have unrealistic expectations of reviews - which, by their very nature, are one-size-fits-all.

 

Reviews of musical instruments can only ever be a research starting point to select the instruments with the features and benefits that you want and to eliminate the instruments that don't have the features and benefits you want.

 

In my view, you have to get your hands on the keys in a performance situation to make a truly informed decision. Granted, that's not always easy or even possible in some geographic locations. However, every MI dealer worth his salt has an unconditional 30-day return policy so most could make it work.

 

Critical instrument analysis and the impulsive artistic temperament are not always compatible - especially with the inevitable GAS attacks.

 

No one ever said this was going to be easy.

[MusicWorkz]

For me, it depends on the magazine. I have no real complaints with those from our host-I've relied on them for informed opinions since I first saw the mag in '81. Over the years, I've also come across a few other mags I respect becasue they will review a product and reveal its shortcomnigs without pause.

 

I DO think at times that reviews are highly subjective because their viewpoint often reflects the level of the reviewer which is typically beyond that of many users. Forums like this one even it out because we get to talk amongst ourselves as peers in a way that is not posible just reading an article.

 

PLUS we get to actually interact with those like SF and db doing the work in a way I've not seen anywhere else which says alot to me about how they value their work and the needs of users like us.