It's sometimes disturbing when..

[TaurusT]

... some one asks you (usually at a job-interview) what gear you use, and you feel the other person is going to judge you by it as soon as you answer.

 

We all know the saying "it's not what you use, it's -how- you use it" but still, the majority of people tend to judge some one on what latest most expensive softsynth some one uses.

If you use hardware synths instead, either 10-15 year old, or even less than 5 years old, believing in "right tool for the right job" it makes them think that "oh then your music mustn't be that good and lacking, because it can never surpass that 10gb sample that recently came out, its the industry standard!".

 

Then when they listen to what you created with your hardware they're surprised and guess that you were using software (simply because you made good use of it, used a lot of velocity-switch samples, did good mixing, layering, timbreswitching, chose the right sounds/instrumentation/reverb etc). You made good use of your tools, for the right job.

 

Anyone kinda know what I'm talking about among the hardware junkies here? It's almost like prejudice you want to get rid of.

 

Your thoughts...

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[cnegrad]

TaurusT,

 

I understand your reasoning, and it's completely valid. But I can also think of two possibilities where these questions wouldn't necessarily have a negative connotation. First, they want to be assured that the gear you use is similar to the gear that others use in the genre that they're working in; especially if you're talking about MPC's and things of that nature. I've run into that before. It may be silly, but I've experienced it myself. The second situation would be one where they just want to be sure that the gear you have isn't too low-end.

 

Of course every situation is different, but these have been what I've seen in the past. Hope this helps.

[Tonysounds]

I'm not sure what style of music you're working in, but frankly, I've never experienced "hardware bigotry". Lots of times I've been asked what type of gear I used. Musicians love talking about toys. Only a couple times did it seem like there was an agenda in mind, and that was because they wanted to make sure they were getting a Hammond/Wurli/Piano guy, not a (don't get offended) Korg M1 guy.

 

Even on those gigs, they didn't care which clone I was using, only that I was using some real organ-type of device. (Imagine their surprise when I told them depending on how into they were, they could help me get one of my chops out of the van, or I could just bring my clone-du-jour and a leslie; they weren't used to anyone bringing a leslie!).

 

 

[Dave Horne]

I'm guilty of judging some folks by the gear they use.

 

I saw a guy at an outdoor concert recently using an old Wurlitzer electric piano backing up a singer. That was his only keyboard and the thought that went through my mind was, you can't update your equipment and use something just a tad better especially if you consider yourself a professional. (I bought a Wurlitzer electric piano back in in the late 1970's and used it a for only a few years.)

 

This wasn't a kid, by the way, this was a guy probably in his 40's. I could see how someone could make a judgment, I certainly did.

 

Was I wrong? I don't know, I just know that using an electric keyboard that's over 30 years old is asking for trouble.

[cnegrad]

Obviously anyone can OWN gear. It takes a lot more than money to play the heck out of it.

[Ed Coury]

Given the choice between a great player with a Wurly, and a not-quite-as-great player firing off sequences from the latest mega-workstation, I'll take the Wurly dude anytime...

[SilverDragonSoun]

I understand your frustration. This happened to me once a while back. My response was two keyboards, an amp, a mixer and a 4 track analog recorder. The response no what specific type of keyboards, mixer ect. I responded I have one Korg, one ensoniq, one yamaha and one alesis. The next response was I was looking for specific models. I then asked why it was important. We need someone with professional gear. I responded do you want to hear me play? They respond sure after we know what gear you have. At this point I was pissed so I lied and went with the low end gear I could think of. I didn't even get a chance to play after I told them. Isn't it more important whether you can play that great pro gear or not????

[kanker.]

Do you want me, or do you want my gear? I can make a kazoo sound good if that's all I have to play.

[mate stubb]

I've gone to auditions and taken my whole rig. I also went to an audition and sat down at a clavinet that happened to be there.

 

Most intelligent musicians will judge you well if you carry yourself with confidence, and show that you can play.

 

I've imitated solo violin with synthesizer, and string washes with a Hammond because that's what I had available at the time.

 

People who obsess over exactly duplicating sounds sometimes miss the big picture.

[Sven Golly]

Gotta love how the situation is the inverse of the guitar world, huh? "What, that's not a pre-CBS Strat? Pffft! :rolleyes:"

 

Ah well. I've found that, generally speaking, if the prospective gig leader asks those kinds of questions, it's generally not a gig you're going to want to take anyway.

 

[oscarr111111]

Gotta love how the situation is the inverse of the guitar world, huh? "What, that's not a pre-CBS Strat? Pffft! :rolleyes:"

 

Its not like that at all really, old and new guitars are both desired somewhat equally, just for different reasons.

[kanker.]

Gotta love how the situation is the inverse of the guitar world, huh? "What, that's not a pre-CBS Strat? Pffft! :rolleyes:"

 

Its not like that at all really, old and new guitars are both desired somewhat equally, just for different reasons.

Maybe, but it's a poor craftsman that blames the tools. If you're that good, you can make a piece of junk talk.

[linwood]

I agree.....like watchin' Jeff Babko sit down and rock an old wurli. Plays it like he means it, no matter what it is. Great player.

[TaurusT]

Its one thing to demand not using bad gear, but its another to immediately think that having new trendy gear means the music surpasses someone with older gear.

 

"Do you have a Fantom-X 88key?"

"No, I have a JV-2080 and its packed with SRJV cards, plus im an ultra elite synthprogrammer"

"Oh ok.... those old vintage thingies that nobody uses anymore right?"

"..right".

"Sorry, we got industry standards you have to follow".

 

 

 

[oscarr111111]

Gotta love how the situation is the inverse of the guitar world, huh? "What, that's not a pre-CBS Strat? Pffft! :rolleyes:"

 

Its not like that at all really, old and new guitars are both desired somewhat equally, just for different reasons.

Maybe, but it's a poor craftsman that blames the tools. If you're that good, you can make a piece of junk talk.

 

Yes, but how much you enjoy playing your instrument and the sound it makes will directly influence the quality of and passion in your playing.

 

So although a musical genius can make beautiful music with rubbish, they can make better music on their instrument of choice (of course the instrument of choice may be rubbish.. but what is 'rubbish' and what isn't is entirely subjective).

[Sven Golly]

Its not like that at all really, old and new guitars are both desired somewhat equally, just for different reasons.

 

Sorry, wasn't aware it was "no sense of humour Saturday". Next time I'll be sure to put a few dozen smileys on my post to make it obvious when I'm being facetious.

 

[oscarr111111]

Its not like that at all really, old and new guitars are both desired somewhat equally, just for different reasons.

 

Sorry, wasn't aware it was "no sense of humour Saturday". Next time I'll be sure to put a few dozen smileys on my post to make it obvious when I'm being facetious.

 

Simmer down, I just got off working 9 soul crushing hours in a bottom of the barrel job. I wasn't really reading deeply into every post.

 

Today was the last shift though done with that shit. I've got enough projects and gigs set up to pay my rent and keep me entertained all summer, things are looking up, my uni results came in for the year too and I aced 'em (working full time while studying because of some bullcrap loophole the government found to clobber you with council tax=lose, fuck 'the man').

[Ed Coury]

Its not like that at all really, old and new guitars are both desired somewhat equally, just for different reasons.

 

Sorry, wasn't aware it was "no sense of humour Saturday". Next time I'll be sure to put a few dozen smileys on my post to make it obvious when I'm being facetious.

 

LOL! Ahhh...you missed the most recent Saturday Forum Attidtude Calendar email! Well, I saved a copy:

 

*May 26: No sense of humor

*June 2: No tolerance for newbies

*June 9: No posts about red keyboards

*June 16: No posters with less than 10 years of classical training

*June 23: No responses to requests to name the best gear of any kind - including, but not limited to: best light weight all-purpose synth under $1000, best stereo amp under 20 pounds, etc.

*June 30: No posts containing random images of the following: large glasses of beer, women in skimpy outfits, or any model Fender Rhodes.

 

 

[Darren Landrum]

*June 30: No posts containing random images of the following: large glasses of beer, women in skimpy outfits, or any model Fender Rhodes.

 

WHAT?!! No beer and women on my birthday?! NOOOOO!!!!

 

[Dave Horne]

Given the choice between a great player with a Wurly, and a not-quite-as-great player firing off sequences from the latest mega-workstation, I'll take the Wurly dude anytime...

 

Ed, I don't think anyone would disagree with you on that specific statement.

 

My point was, if you call yourself a professional, you use professional equipment. Someone who uses a 30+ year old (electric\mechanical) piece of equipment (going through a battered guitar amp) is probably limiting his potential.

 

If I see a 40+ year old guy playing a concert on a Wurlitzer electronic piano I am entitled to my narrow minded opinion of his outlook on his profession.

 

I also draw the line at clean, pressed, appropiate clothes for the venue in question. If you are going to take music as a profession seriously, you have to take your appearance and your choice of equipment somewhat seriously as well.

[BluesKeys]

Hey Dave just I'd say this guy isn't limited by a wurly. :grin:

 

http://youtube.com/watch?v=2y1vC34u76M

 

Of course he does use other keys on stage so my guess is this doesn't count. But there is certainly a place for it as long as you have a tech handy.

[b3_john]

My point was, if you call yourself a professional, you use professional equipment. Someone who uses a 30+ year old (electric\mechanical) piece of equipment (going through a battered guitar amp) is probably limiting his potential.

Yeah, I saw a guy playing a 50-year old Hammond B3 and Leslie last night, I'm pretty sure those things are junk, right?

 

John

[Jazzwee]

*June 30: No posts containing random images of the following: large glasses of beer, women in skimpy outfits, or any model Fender Rhodes.

 

 

oooohhh --Cydonia, Dreamer, and Tom Henry will get on your case man...

 

Of course they might forgive you since apparently you didn't ban any sheep.

 

 

[Dave Horne]

My point was, if you call yourself a professional, you use professional equipment. Someone who uses a 30+ year old (electric\mechanical) piece of equipment (going through a battered guitar amp) is probably limiting his potential.

Yeah, I saw a guy playing a 50-year old Hammond B3 and Leslie last night, I'm pretty sure those things are junk, right?

 

John

 

I didn't say that, did I?

 

I was talking about a Wurlitzer electric piano being used as the only keyboard at a concert.

 

For what it's worth, I played B3 with a Leslie on jobs for about five years 30 years ago. If I were to go back to playing B3 I wouldn't use a 50 year old piece of equipment, I'd buy from something from this time, a Hammond Suzuki digital B3.

[oscarr111111]

Old instruments have much more character, people just like to see them played, plus its also a good talking point for audience members and anything that gets you talked about is good, word of mouth is the best promotion someone can get.

 

Also, with an old instrument in decent condition you can be pretty sure that its not going to run into any new problems as long as its maintained and treated well, a new instrument could have undiscovered build flaws, the wood could warp as it ages (or with the help of climate changes) resulting in cracks or changes to the sound etc.

[Trill]

TaurusT,

 

I understand your reasoning, and it's completely valid. But I can also think of two possibilities where these questions wouldn't necessarily have a negative connotation. First, they want to be assured that the gear you use is similar to the gear that others use in the genre that they're working in; especially if you're talking about MPC's and things of that nature. I've run into that before. It may be silly, but I've experienced it myself. The second situation would be one where they just want to be sure that the gear you have isn't too low-end.

 

 

I agree with those points and I think a third point could be ... this one drives me crazy. " Must have the right look, Image is very important to us" which usually comes from the younger bands who are more concerned with thier image. Some people actually believe that someone is a better musician because he knows or has all the latest and greatest gear or they would be embarressed to be on stage with someone with an old synth.

[Krakit]

It's funny. I specifically keep up my old equipment because I know my way around it, can make it do amazing things and roll my own sounds.

 

If anything bad ever happened to, say my Roland MKS70 or my MiniKorg, I would be compelled to replace them.

 

Check out Joe Zawinul's rig.

 

Carl

[cnegrad]

Looks like it's all coming down to the young vs. the old.

[oscarr111111]

Looks like it's all coming down to the young vs. the old.

 

Uh, no?

[Dave Horne]

Looks like it's all coming down to the young vs. the old.

 

Uh, no?

 

Sometimes I think young guys feel that the old Rhodes and Wurlitzer keyboards have character and the old guys have the been there, done that attitude and have no desire to go back.

 

While it was nice playing a B3 on jobs it was a real pain in the ass to move. While the old Rhodes had an interesting sound, the keyboard itself was a real pain in the ass to play and always needed to be repaired usually right before a concert or during a concert.

 

I'll give you this though, for some reason my dual core 2.8 GHz Intel chip lacks the character of my old 386 chip running at 25 MHz. Go figure.