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Re: New Roland Fantom [Re: Moonglow] #3009841 09/26/19 04:53 PM
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Originally Posted by Moonglow
Originally Posted by theshinenz
Got a bit more info today from the Sud-Claviers video on youtube. I guy on facebook was nice enough to translate some of it.

The French Roland Rep confirmed the Fantom has 8 expansion slots, which will be used for Plug-Outs, Axial Sounds & New Filters... look forward to some of these rolling out

This is going to be one killer machine in the future.

That’s huge! Thanks for sharing.



Yep, read about this earlier today. I'm attempting to condense/thin my herd of Roland gear, and had recently been leaning toward getting a low-mileage Jupiter-80. I dig the expressiveness and playability of SuperNatural, and the JP-80 offers significant display, programming and action advantages over my JP-50. But my attention has been turned back toward the Fantom 7. Don't need the recording/groove capabilities, just an exceptional live keyboard (hence the JP-80 consideration). But the expansion flexibility of the Fantom 7 could make it an insane, live chameleon; not to mention the user interface - which is one of the best I've seen. Wish I knew definitely if distinct SN technology is going to be part of the Fantom's future. ZEN-Core sounds very playable and expressive; but Ed Diaz was clear, in his FB presentation earlier this week, that the Fantom currently does not have SuperNatural technology.


"Someday, we will look back on these days and laugh. It may be a maniacal laugh from within the confines of our padded cells, but it will be a laugh nonetheless" - Mr. Boffo.







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Re: New Roland Fantom [Re: allan_evett] #3009893 09/26/19 09:29 PM
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Considering the usual update policy and abandon your products strategy of Roland I wouldn't hold my breath. For me that is the EXACT reason I don't pull the trigger on a Fantom yet. If it is supposed to be a one-instruments does it all (for live gigs) solution, like the Kronos, then the acoustic sound palette is very small, old and unconvincing. I see no improvement over , let's say , the Integra7 and Jupiter80 there in terms of sound quality, sound quantity and playability (totally missing out Super natural and especially behavioral modeling (JP80)!). It's all romper sampling (80's / 90's) again , presumably in small memory packages. Synth side is promising, V-piano very expressive, although it could use an update to the models found in the latest LX paint series (why not Roland?), which have much more substance and body (European Grand). Workflow , controls, integration with DAW , Audio/ midi integration is all great - but where is "the sound" ; I don't hear it. And those tiny Axial sets (32 MB ?) are not going to change that, just recycling same old material. Come on Roland - you can , and should do better by now. Give us the fresh , new , big updated sounds and enough memory to store them (GB's not MB's) ; this is almost 2020 , not 2005. It makes me wonder what Korg will be cooking up as catch-up response to the Fantom. If they incorporate a big FLASH RAM with lots of content from there massive EXS libraries and the engines of Kronos in a fast , lightweight and mean controller package , it will give Roland a run for the money. These Kronos acoustic EXS packs sound soo much better , although they are like 10 years old and aging too. Would have thought Roland would catch up there after the Fantom G debacle (weak acoustic sounds) , but so far - I don't see it happening.

Re: New Roland Fantom [Re: JFP] #3009900 09/26/19 09:52 PM
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Originally Posted by JFP
Considering the usual update policy and abandon your products strategy of Roland I wouldn't hold my breath. For me that is the EXACT reason I don't pull the trigger on a Fantom yet. If it is supposed to be a one-instruments does it all (for live gigs) solution, like the Kronos, then the acoustic sound palette is very small, old and unconvincing.g.


Early on, I said as much, as a few others. A $4000 Fantom is not a perfect fit for the gigging keyboardist.
It has strong positives but without SN, it doesn't reach that quite reach the crossover all in 1 board.

For the home studio recording guy, its aces. I would like SN instruments but its down the priority list for my purpose.

Re: New Roland Fantom [Re: JFP] #3009917 09/27/19 12:22 AM
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Originally Posted by JFP
Considering the usual update policy and abandon your products strategy of Roland I wouldn't hold my breath. For me that is the EXACT reason I don't pull the trigger on a Fantom yet. If it is supposed to be a one-instruments does it all (for live gigs) solution, like the Kronos, then the acoustic sound palette is very small, old and unconvincing. I see no improvement over , let's say , the Integra7 and Jupiter80 there in terms of sound quality, sound quantity and playability (totally missing out Super natural and especially behavioral modeling (JP80)!). It's all romper sampling (80's / 90's) again , presumably in small memory packages. Synth side is promising, V-piano very expressive, although it could use an update to the models found in the latest LX paint series (why not Roland?), which have much more substance and body (European Grand). Workflow , controls, integration with DAW , Audio/ midi integration is all great - but where is "the sound" ; I don't hear it. And those tiny Axial sets (32 MB ?) are not going to change that, just recycling same old material. Come on Roland - you can , and should do better by now. Give us the fresh , new , big updated sounds and enough memory to store them (GB's not MB's) ; this is almost 2020 , not 2005. It makes me wonder what Korg will be cooking up as catch-up response to the Fantom. If they incorporate a big FLASH RAM with lots of content from there massive EXS libraries and the engines of Kronos in a fast , lightweight and mean controller package , it will give Roland a run for the money. These Kronos acoustic EXS packs sound soo much better , although they are like 10 years old and aging too. Would have thought Roland would catch up there after the Fantom G debacle (weak acoustic sounds) , but so far - I don't see it happening.


^ Angry Kronos Owner lol

Re: New Roland Fantom [Re: gino] #3009999 09/27/19 01:31 PM
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True, Korg Kronos is alway updating their library (I own a KK7) but... you pay for tho$e & they Ain's cheap while the Roland Axial sounds are free. Either forum for these boards have freebies so it's subjective on what you want. Personally I never have embraced the Korg APs & IMHO RD series have the best pianos and very tweakable to taste especially the V-Piano. Whatever works for you, works for you. smile


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Re: New Roland Fantom [Re: rickzjamm] #3010008 09/27/19 02:56 PM
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Originally Posted by rickzjamm
True, Korg Kronos is alway updating their library (I own a KK7) but... you pay for tho$e & they Ain's cheap while the Roland Axial sounds are free. Either forum for these boards have freebies so it's subjective on what you want. Personally I never have embraced the Korg APs & IMHO RD series have the best pianos and very tweakable to taste especially the V-Piano. Whatever works for you, works for you. smile


always updating library ?

True, Korg did the Italian Grand last January, which is nice.

Everything else is 3rd party- which you have to buy, if it fits. I am reluctant to drop
Benjamins on several 3rd party libs. There is lots to like, but they are not transferrable for free
to another Kronos.

Let me know if I missed something. Thanks

Re: New Roland Fantom [Re: gino] #3010023 09/27/19 04:16 PM
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Just got am email from Korg this past week on new additions to the library & the IG fell flat IMO (yeah I bought that$$$).
I agree about the Korg third party offerings, non transferable & I've been "taken" many times while throwing my cash in the ol' sucker dumpster. That's why the Fantom draws me in, I have an FA-06 and have never bought any library tones for it but Axial offers a bounty of sounds. Are they for everybody? Of course not but they fit my needs.


Plan your work & work your plan.
Re: New Roland Fantom [Re: gino] #3010083 09/28/19 02:57 AM
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My Fantom 7 review unit just arrived a few days ago and there is a LOT to wrap my head around. So far I'm very impressed with the overall sound quality, build quality, massive complement of audio, MIDI, USB, CV/gate, and controller I/O, the fast and extremely QUIET semi-weighted synth action on my unit, the styling, and the fact that they've crammed so much functionality and so many operating modes into it. The rhythm patterns have arranger-like sections (verses, intros, fills, etc). Others have mentioned in this thread that there doesn't seem to be any VK/VR-like drawbar control for organ sounds, and I too have yet to find any. (Surprising because the RD-2000 stage piano does have that.) I too am going to YouTube University watching Roland and third-party videos. I'm talking to Roland and am going to try to pull some of their best people (hopefully brother Tibbs and/or brother Diaz) into either this or a new thread so we can get our collective questions answered straight from the source.

My main speed bump so far is that the keyboard does SO much that navigation has an inevitable learning curve. One example: I found the single-Tone Scene and thought, "Great, I'll use this to step through a bunch of the new Tones in bank A." Yet after going through a handful of sounds in each category, it would jump to a seemingly random new category and then I'd step through a few featured Tones there. I knew there had to be more. (Tones, BTW, is Roland's current parlance for a single "patch" i.e. not a combi / multi / performance.) It came down to clicking a padlock icon while on the Zone View screen. Lock it, and you would step through all the Tones in the sound category selected in that long button row at bottom right. Now, when I see a padlock icon, my first thought is that it's meant to prevent tampering and therefore locks other settings on the touchscreen and/or panel. Or maybe it's a memory-protect that keeps you from storing. Nope. It's a toggle between two different ways of scrolling through Tones.

There are certainly some design cues from the Montage, and it's always in multi-timbral mode like the Montage. However, it "thinks" quite differently from the Montage and MODX in terms of hierarchy and organization. Exactly how? Yeah, working on that. Good news is that in the past few months I've been working on some MODX tutorial videos and have gotten familiar enough with it that when I really learn the Fantom, I'll be able to give you a robust, point-by-point comparison.

First impression: Who's seen "Penny Dreadful," the wonderful series originally on Showtime (now Netflix) that mashes up characters from classic horror? If you've seen it, you know that however watchable Eva Green is, the Frankenstein's Creature character steals the show. He is an incredibly sophisticated and intelligent being with an encyclopedic knowledge of poetry and literature. He's powerful and mostly a force for good. Yet because he's sewn together out of different bits, he can also be awkward and unpredictable, and doesn't always understand how regular folks expect him to act. The Fantom at its release has felt, in the brief time it's been in my la-BOR-a-tory, kind of like that. By the end of season 3, the Creature has made vast strides in moral and emotional growth, and if you think I'm making an analogy to where the Fantom could go with software updates, then we're thinking alike.

More to come. Alive! It's alive!

Last edited by Stephen Fortner; 09/28/19 02:59 AM.

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Re: New Roland Fantom [Re: gino] #3010120 09/28/19 11:44 AM
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Re: New Roland Fantom [Re: Stephen Fortner] #3010131 09/28/19 01:05 PM
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Originally Posted by Stephen Fortner
...extremely QUIET semi-weighted synth action on my unit...

It's surprising you describe the Fantom 7 as extremely quiet, because the semi-weighted unit in the Thomann Youtube video I saw had a very noisy action, as if the keys are banging against the casing.

I hope some of the Roland representatives can join in and clear up some of the questions, like what the plans are for the onboard sequencer and integration with other DAWs?
Will the sequencer remain as it is, max. length of 32 bars p/pattern, 8 patterns p/track, only 2 time signatures (I really need other time signatures), will Cubase integration be available in the near future?
It would be nice to see other time signatures, more editing options, longer patterns, more patterns in a track.

It also would be nice to get some info about the expandability of the Fantom and Roland's plans in that direction.
So far I've heard that there are 8 slots reserved for expansions, that there are plans for electric pianos, Supernatural acoustic instruments, tone wheel organ models, the engines of the Jupiter X, multi-sampled libraries.
If anyone from Roland could shed some light on this it would be greatly appreciated.

I am considering a Fantom, but because it is lacking some functionality which I find important to have (onboard sequencer, integration with Cubase) I am still reluctant.
I really like the sound of the Fantom.

Re: New Roland Fantom [Re: gino] #3010132 09/28/19 01:18 PM
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John64, I based my evaluation of the action on doing some palm wipes (B3-style) up and down the keyboard and not hearing any clacking or other unwanted noise. Playing with the power off, it doesn't seem any worse than other actions of this kind, though I can do some A-B'ing with the MODX I have here, my Sequential REV2, my older Motif ES, etc. Fair point — I'll get back to you on this.


"I'm just a confused musician who got sidetracked into this damned word business..." -Hunter S. Thompson

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Re: New Roland Fantom [Re: gino] #3010144 09/28/19 03:10 PM
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And of course, things just got more interesting because Montage OS 3.0 and MODX OS 2.0 have added an onboard pattern sequencer. Guess downloading that update and firing 'er up is on my Saturday to-do list as well!


"I'm just a confused musician who got sidetracked into this damned word business..." -Hunter S. Thompson

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Re: New Roland Fantom [Re: Stephen Fortner] #3010159 09/28/19 06:00 PM
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Originally Posted by Stephen Fortner
John64, I based my evaluation of the action on doing some palm wipes (B3-style) up and down the keyboard and not hearing any clacking or other unwanted noise. Playing with the power off, it doesn't seem any worse than other actions of this kind, though I can do some A-B'ing with the MODX I have here, my Sequential REV2, my older Motif ES, etc. Fair point — I'll get back to you on this.


Stephen:

I see that you still have your Motif ES8, so do I. I am curious why you didn't upgrade to a newer model that offered half-peddling, more elements, more ROM sounds, larger screen, and Flash Memory?

I had considered it back when the ES8 still had some resale value, I could have traded it in and added cash to the sale to move up. But my biggest concern was that I have about 160 classic rock songs I recorded using the internal 16 channel sequencer, some Yamaha sounds from the original Motif series, and sound effects. I have edited and changed sound that were in the factory sound bank locations, and the channels where these sounds were located would not match the newer Motif series sound banks. So, I would have to re-do every sequence I have, edit and save them to new files. God knows how long that would take. In addition, I would have had to give up my ES8 on a trade to the dealer, so I wouldn't have my original sequences to use for reference. So, I still have the ES8.

From what I can see, there is no easy way to transition to a newer synth without spending years redoing the work that is finished, and still sound good.

I don't know how you use your ES8, I am curious why you didn't upgrade?


Mike T.

Last edited by MikeT156; 09/28/19 06:10 PM.

Yamaha Motif ES8, Alesis Ion, Prophet 5 Rev 3.2, 1979 Rhodes Mark 1 Suitcase 73 Piano, Arp Odyssey Md III, Roland R-70 Drum Machine, Digitech Vocalist Live Pro. Roland Boss Chorus Ensemble CE-1.
Re: New Roland Fantom [Re: Stephen Fortner] #3010170 09/28/19 07:10 PM
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Originally Posted by Stephen Fortner
Others have mentioned in this thread that there doesn't seem to be any VK/VR-like drawbar control for organ sounds, and I too have yet to find any. (Surprising because the RD-2000 stage piano does have that.)


That surprises me as well. I've used that function on the RD-2000 for the past three years, and it was emphasized as a capability of that instrument. I wonder if the Fantom has a toggle for drawbar access, similar to Tone Designer on the RD-2000.

Originally Posted by Stephen Fortner
However, it "thinks" quite differently from the Montage and MODX in terms of hierarchy and organization. Exactly how? Yeah, working on that. Good news is that in the past few months I've been working on some MODX tutorial videos and have gotten familiar enough with it that when I really learn the Fantom, I'll be able to give you a robust, point-by-point comparison.


I've been wondering about those differences too. I have an MODX8 that is moving toward being my main, live 88; meanwhile wanting an upgrade from my JP-50 to compliment that. Have been considering the Fantom 7, or finding a good used JP-80. Having the improved workflow, touchscreen and aftertouch from either is important, but so is having a keyboard optimized for live use. Curious as to how well the Fantom will cover that aspect.

Originally Posted by Stephen Fortner
First impression: Who's seen "Penny Dreadful," the wonderful series originally on Showtime (now Netflix) that mashes up characters from classic horror? If you've seen it, you know that however watchable Eva Green is, the Frankenstein's Creature character steals the show. He is an incredibly sophisticated and intelligent being with an encyclopedic knowledge of poetry and literature. He's powerful and mostly a force for good. Yet because he's sewn together out of different bits, he can also be awkward and unpredictable, and doesn't always understand how regular folks expect him to act. The Fantom at its release has felt, in the brief time it's been in my la-BOR-a-tory, kind of like that. By the end of season 3, the Creature has made vast strides in moral and emotional growth, and if you think I'm making an analogy to where the Fantom could go with software updates, then we're thinking alike.


Haven't experience "Penny Dreadful", yet. But the analogy appears well founded. Like you, I want further clarity as to where Roland plans to take this. For such an investment, I'd want to know where Roland plans to be with the Fantom by the end of 'Season 5'. So I agree that we need details from the source.


"Someday, we will look back on these days and laugh. It may be a maniacal laugh from within the confines of our padded cells, but it will be a laugh nonetheless" - Mr. Boffo.







Re: New Roland Fantom [Re: Stephen Fortner] #3010201 09/29/19 02:52 AM
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Originally Posted by Stephen Fortner
there doesn't seem to be any VK/VR-like drawbar control for organ sounds, and I too have yet to find any.


Kind of a shocker. Not pulling the trigger yet. :-(

Last edited by echo66; 09/29/19 02:53 AM.
Re: New Roland Fantom [Re: gino] #3010224 09/29/19 11:46 AM
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Just got my F7... not much in terms of organ editing, just the very basics. EQ'ing helps the overall tone but still not quite there, I was told by a very reliable source tone wheel, EP & AP upgrade ON THE WAY. smile


Plan your work & work your plan.
Re: New Roland Fantom [Re: gino] #3010727 10/02/19 05:24 PM
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Very glad that I sold my JP80 a few months ago. Thinking hard about one of these. May sell my Kronos 3 76, Virus TI2 and System 8 to pick up a Fantom 7. My rule is sell 2 to buy 1 as I reduce my rig. Only considering selling the Kronos 3 because I also have a 61 key version and an RD2000 for weighted action.

Re: New Roland Fantom [Re: RABid] #3010732 10/02/19 05:53 PM
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Originally Posted by RABid
Ver. May sell my Kronos 3 76, Virus TI2 and System 8 to pick up a Fantom 7. My rule is sell 2 to buy 1 as I reduce my rig.

Only considering selling the Kronos 3 because I also have a 61 key version and an RD2000 for weighted action.


never heard of a official Korg Kronos 3

A Kronos 2, yes.


Last edited by GregC; 10/02/19 05:56 PM.
Re: New Roland Fantom [Re: rickzjamm] #3010736 10/02/19 06:22 PM
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Originally Posted by rickzjamm
Just got my F7... not much in terms of organ editing, just the very basics. EQ'ing helps the overall tone but still not quite there, I was told by a very reliable source tone wheel, EP & AP upgrade ON THE WAY. smile


I keep hearing about upgrades on the way (EP, organ, SNA, and now piano) and wondering why they’d do a big, splashy launch without these kinds of fundamental sounds in great shape to begin with? Most of my initial interest drained away when listening to uninspiring virtual analog sounds, leaving me wondering when exactly these miracle updates that are rumored will put a little more meat on the bone.


Acoustic: Shigeru Kawai SK-7 ~ Breedlove C2/R
MIDI: Kurzweil Forte ~ Sequential Prophet X ~ Roland TD11KV
Electric: Schecter Solo Custom Exotic, C-1 Classic, Hellraiser Extreme
Re: New Roland Fantom [Re: Lady Gaia] #3010739 10/02/19 06:40 PM
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Originally Posted by Lady Gaia
[quote

I keep hearing about upgrades on the way (EP, organ, SNA, and now piano) and wondering why they’d do a big, splashy launch without these kinds of fundamental sounds in great shape to begin with? Most of my initial interest drained away when listening to uninspiring virtual analog sounds, leaving me wondering when exactly these miracle updates that are rumored will put a little more meat on the bone.


sounds reasonable. I find Roland easy to talk to.

Ask Ed on Rolands Facebook page [ Fantom}

Re: New Roland Fantom [Re: gino] #3010764 10/02/19 08:16 PM
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There is no point in asking Ed. Ed is a kind guy from Roland US and does his best to promote Roland products. The decision is made by Roland Japan and we don't know when and if and I'm sure that even Ed doesn't really know what will be released and when. I agree absolutely here with Lady Gaia. I remember a time when I and other Fantom G user discussed on the Roland forum about what will be the next ARX Expansion for the Fantom G. It turned out that there was no new ARX Expansion and Roland introduced the Jupiter-80 with a bunch of new SN Sounds and Fantom G turned suddenly and unexpected to a legacy product.

I don't say this just for the sake of complaining, but I wouldn't buy a keyboard where essential sounds are intended to be released at some later point, all that based on a rumor from facebook. Releasing additional sounds for the sake of variety is fine, but releasing a keyboard where the acoustic sounds are based mostly on a 20 years old WaveRom, being 64 Mb in size, well, I simply don't see a point in that. The same is of course true for any other manufacturer

Re: New Roland Fantom [Re: gino] #3010778 10/02/19 09:26 PM
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I don't exactly know of anyone who needs the Fantom today to make or break their career.
It does not bother me that Roland did not automatically add some standard top notch acoustic sounds.
Or other expected features.

For example, I feel no pressure to buy one today. I am fine waiting until sometime next year.
I can read marketing stuff like anyone. It doesn't bother me. All these co's do some variation
on when to release a new expensive product.

I am still interested and can see the potential. For my requirements.

Last edited by GregC; 10/02/19 09:40 PM.
Re: New Roland Fantom [Re: gino] #3010786 10/02/19 10:30 PM
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I understand completely that there’s no obligation to buy a product day one. After all, I bought my Kurzweil Forte a good three years after release when the feature set caught up with what I was looking for to replace an aging Kurzweil. I am, however, going to need another 88-key beast in a new location at some point next year and so I’m paying attention to meaningful alternatives to buying another of the same (now) 5+ year old design. Right after a product announcement is when I’m most likely to find impressions, be able to walk into a retailer and experience one in person, or listen to representative online demos. It’s a missed marketing opportunity to grab positive attention by as wide an audience as possible, that’s all.

I will certainly to keep an eye on how various updates evolved the instrument, but I suspect information about updates will be much more sparse than information about new product launches.


Acoustic: Shigeru Kawai SK-7 ~ Breedlove C2/R
MIDI: Kurzweil Forte ~ Sequential Prophet X ~ Roland TD11KV
Electric: Schecter Solo Custom Exotic, C-1 Classic, Hellraiser Extreme
Re: New Roland Fantom [Re: gino] #3010819 10/03/19 02:17 AM
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Same for the Yamaha Montage.

Re: New Roland Fantom [Re: gino] #3010849 10/03/19 06:50 AM
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Yes, the Montage, and esp the CP 88 and 73, promised more sounds down the road. I'm much more sceptical hearing this from Roland, the way they abandoned the Fantom G was unbelievable. Yamaha is not known for that.

I would be curious also where Roland is company wise. They haven't produced a workstation since the Fantom G, and have really cranked out the smaller, cheaper stuff. I heard somewhere that corporate Roland has gone thru big changes in the last 10 years. Frankly I'm surprised to see a new workstation from anybody. The music business is pulled in many directions, and many have gone the computer route.


Korg PA 1000 / NS 88 Classic / iRig Keys I/O 49
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Yamaha melodica, alto recorder / Congas
Roland Street Cube EX / QSC K10, K8.2 / SS V.3 / Klipsch KMC 3
Re: New Roland Fantom [Re: Randelph] #3010865 10/03/19 01:19 PM
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GregC Offline
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Originally Posted by Randelph
Yes, the Montage, and esp the CP 88 and 73, promised more sounds down the road. I'm much more sceptical hearing this from Roland, the way they abandoned the Fantom G was unbelievable. Yamaha is not known for that.

I would be curious also where Roland is company wise. They haven't produced a workstation since the Fantom G, and have really cranked out the smaller, cheaper stuff. I heard somewhere that corporate Roland has gone thru big changes in the last 10 years. Frankly I'm surprised to see a new workstation from anybody. The music business is pulled in many directions, and many have gone the computer route.


This Roland history is well explained on the forum. Their management changes from some 10 yrs ago, etc etc etc.

I think these horses are well out of the barn. Maybe someone can give you the 411. A google search might also give you the story.

I have posted this before, none of these co's are perfect. Its common to find some accounts where a customer got a defect, didn't like something, felt abandoned or misled etc etc.
Sure , if someone got burned or I got burned I likely wouldn't buy the co's products. We have other good choices. This is why competition is great.

History from 10 years ago does not automatically repeat. I think this is fair.

Re: New Roland Fantom [Re: Lady Gaia] #3010895 10/03/19 04:08 PM
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Originally Posted by Lady Gaia

I keep hearing about upgrades on the way (EP, organ, SNA, and now piano) and wondering why they’d do a big, splashy launch without these kinds of fundamental sounds in great shape to begin with? Most of my initial interest drained away when listening to uninspiring virtual analog sounds, leaving me wondering when exactly these miracle updates that are rumored will put a little more meat on the bone.


The product was ready to ship the day of the announcement. That's pretty rare for high end synths. As it is you plug this into a Logic rig and it makes everything better and easier to use. Now that the board is out, it can be added to Omnisphere hardware integration, integration with roland cloud and hopefully other daws. Sequencer is powerful even in it's basic state and it challenges you to play accurately but it's the fastest workflow I've seen in hardware when it comes to quickly assembling sounds and grooves. Cool new V piano and VA synth. Synth is definitely an upgrade to supernatural or kronos VAs. So why not ship now? Those other things are coming probably by NAMM. Fantom G owners are quick to remind everyone about what happened over a decade ago and they've pretty much made up their mind the same thing will happen here. EPs and organs will come, more PCM waves, SNA in some form but I bet it gets called something else. Maybe a synth or 2 from Jupiter X but not all. Personally I'd like the audio interface to be able to run at 96k. There won't be an endless stream of updates from Roland and nobody else does that either. The best we can hope is for continued driver support long term maybe 4-5 years.

Re: New Roland Fantom [Re: Lady Gaia] #3010903 10/03/19 04:20 PM
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Originally Posted by Lady Gaia
wondering why they’d do a big, splashy launch without these kinds of fundamental sounds in great shape to begin with?

Because it's expensive to keep manufactured product stacked up in a warehouse with nobody buying them? It's not like it's not a perfectly usable musical instrument as it exists today. One of the hardest things to predict accurately is when software will be completed (including fully debugged). They may have hoped/intended to have more content ready to go by the targeted ship date, but hardware manufacturing has a long lead time, so it's hard to have everything perfectly in sync. It was different in the days of non-updatable ROMs, where you essentially could not manufacture/ship a product until it was essentially complete. If some capability was taking too long to complete, it would probably just be dropped . At least these days, they do have more flexibility in terms of what can be added after the fact.


Maybe this is the best place for a shameless plug! Our new video at https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3ZRC3b4p4EI is a 40 minute adaptation of T. S. Eliot's "Prufrock" - check it out!
Re: New Roland Fantom [Re: AnotherScott] #3010906 10/03/19 04:29 PM
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Originally Posted by AnotherScott
Originally Posted by Lady Gaia
wondering why they’d do a big, splashy launch without these kinds of fundamental sounds in great shape to begin with?

Because it's expensive to keep manufactured product stacked up in a warehouse with nobody buying them? It's not like it's not a perfectly usable musical instrument as it exists today. One of the hardest things to predict accurately is when software will be completed (including fully debugged). They may have hoped/intended to have more content ready to go by the targeted ship date, but hardware manufacturing has a long lead time, so it's hard to have everything perfectly in sync. It was different in the days of non-updatable ROMs, where you essentially could not manufacture/ship a product until it was essentially complete. If some capability was taking too long to complete, it would probably just be dropped . At least these days, they do have more flexibility in terms of what can be added after the fact.


This is an excellent point. Kurzweil Forte is a prime example of exactly this. It has evolved (and continues to) quite significantly over the past few years via updates well after it was released.


Kurzweil Forte 7, Mojo 61, Kurzweil PC361,
Kronos X61, Casio PX5S
Re: New Roland Fantom [Re: gino] #3010915 10/03/19 04:59 PM
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Oh, I do understand the need to ship and the challenges of aligning hardware production and software schedules. No doubt at some point at least some of what’s in the works was planned to be available at launch. It just seems strange that there’s a constant unofficial whisper of “don’t worry, we have new EP models/organs/pianos/SNA coming” right from day one, which largely puts me in wait-and-see mode. Obviously not everyone is looking for the same things, so I’m glad there are enthusiastic early adopters making music today with the Fantom.

The Forte is an interesting example of both the positive and negative aspects of strong support after the fact. I love where the instrument is at today, and it’s still the front-runner for my needs next year, but they seem to have had a hard time shaking the impression that it’s just a stage piano because that’s what it was on day one. Searches for information turn up articles that are now wildly out of date. There are also overt signs of how it was positioned at launch in the design. Lack of sequencer transport or arpeggiator controls or even an Edit button, omissions corrected on the PC4, show the limits of continuing to add to an instrument after the fact,

So it’s a delicate balancing act of shipping a compelling instrument that sells on its own merits, setting expectations for the future, and managing it effectively throughout its commercially viable life. It’s a complex dance and there really isn’t a single right way to go about it.


Acoustic: Shigeru Kawai SK-7 ~ Breedlove C2/R
MIDI: Kurzweil Forte ~ Sequential Prophet X ~ Roland TD11KV
Electric: Schecter Solo Custom Exotic, C-1 Classic, Hellraiser Extreme
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