Music Player Network

Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Page 1 of 2 1 2
Can you play 10ths? #2996018 06/26/19 04:15 PM
Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 1,007
konaboy Offline OP
Platinum Member
OP Offline
Platinum Member
Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 1,007
Have always wished I could play 10ths in the left hand, perhaps even with an added 5th or 7th.
I can play all the 10ths which have two white notes, like key of C or G.
But many major tenths are just too much of a stretch, like B, C#, D or E.
I have normal sized hands with longish fingers. Do you think it is possible to hit all the 10ths with enough exercises and training? Or should I just cheat and roll the 10ths?
What's your experience?

Last edited by konaboy; 06/26/19 04:16 PM.

hang out with me at woody piano shack
KC Island
Re: Can you play 10ths? [Re: konaboy] #2996028 06/26/19 05:06 PM
Joined: May 2012
Posts: 2,305
S
stoken6 Online Content
MP Hall of Fame Member
Online Content
MP Hall of Fame Member
S
Joined: May 2012
Posts: 2,305
I roll all the 10ths. I haven't got the stretch.

Cheers, Mike.


AX48.PM351.FC7.VFP2
One or two keyboards.
Re: Can you play 10ths? [Re: stoken6] #2996033 06/26/19 05:18 PM
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 2,541
Joe P Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member
Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 2,541
I can hit the white key 10ths, but I roll the black key 10ths.

There is no shortcoming in rolling 10ths in my opinion because rolled 10ths are a beautiful thing!

Re: Can you play 10ths? [Re: konaboy] #2996037 06/26/19 05:51 PM
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 2,885
Adan Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member
Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 2,885
Is there a style of playing that requires hitting 10ths? I'm genuinely asking, because I don't know. I've always been under the impression that it's optional, so do what works best for you.

I agree with Joe that a rolled 10th can be just as compelling at a struck one.


Crumar Seven, Crumar Mojo 61, Korg Vox Continental, Yamaha CP73.

roccoromanucci.com
Re: Can you play 10ths? [Re: konaboy] #2996041 06/26/19 06:05 PM
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 5,706
T
The Real MC Offline
MPN Advisory Board
MP Hall of Fame Member
Offline
MPN Advisory Board
MP Hall of Fame Member
T
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 5,706
Usually I can but key of B is a bit of a stretch.

Re: Can you play 10ths? [Re: konaboy] #2996042 06/26/19 06:08 PM
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 5,897
timwat Offline
Quite wealthy...spiritually
MP Hall of Fame Member
Offline
Quite wealthy...spiritually
MP Hall of Fame Member
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 5,897
I thought that's why God made knives.


"I'm not just untalented. I'm multi untalented."
Re: Can you play 10ths? [Re: konaboy] #2996054 06/26/19 07:17 PM
Joined: Nov 2014
Posts: 7,272
ElmerJFudd Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member
Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member
Joined: Nov 2014
Posts: 7,272
Iíve seen some transcriptions of some of the greats like Fats Waller, Oscar Peterson, etc. hitting the tenth on the odd beats and chording on the evens in a stride. I thought that was cool as hell and practiced it, but am not as fast as Iíve heard it done - and if itís a bit wide I rake it like everyone else. Itís not easy to keep it up! Of course in classical rep like Mr. Big Hands himself, Liszt - you have to stretch this stuff all over the place - but itís virtuosic material. You can spend 6 months and more on just one piece and spend the rest of your life trying to play through it flawlessly. Hence, thereís many ways to voice a chord and create rhythm that sound great and donít require the reach and practice time.


Live: Casio PX-560, Roland VR-700
Home: Rebuilt 1910 Chickering 5'2", Fender Rhodes MKI 88k, Yamaha S90ES
Re: Can you play 10ths? [Re: ElmerJFudd] #2996057 06/26/19 07:27 PM
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 2,541
Joe P Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member
Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 2,541
Here is a video of Dr. John hitting a major D 10, and I think he's adding the 5th. He hits it 5 seconds in:

[video:youtube]https://youtu.be/8KRcyduODa8?t=3[/video]

shocked smile

Re: Can you play 10ths? [Re: konaboy] #2996069 06/26/19 08:54 PM
Joined: Jun 2010
Posts: 2,231
Josh Paxton Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member
Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member
Joined: Jun 2010
Posts: 2,231
I happen to have gotten lucky and won that portion of the genetic lottery, so yeah, I can reach all the 10ths. Db to F is the toughest, but I can get it, just barely. And yes, it comes in exceedingly handy for the music I play. Of course rolling them would be an option, but there are many times when I really like being able to come down on a good, solid 10th in the left hand.

I've said this here before and I'll say it again, despite a surprising amount of negative feedback when I first mentioned it: given advances in manufacturing technology, I would love to see a company make keyboards with scaled-width keys for different hand sizes, for players who want to reach 10ths but can't on standard-size keys. Some people likened this to lowering the hoop for shorter basketball players, which I would consider an apt analogy if you view making music as a competition. I don't. I want people who have the desire and the drive to have every opportunity to play the music they'd like to play, and not be hung up by arbitrary physical limitations.

Re: Can you play 10ths? [Re: Josh Paxton] #2996072 06/26/19 09:18 PM
Joined: Feb 2015
Posts: 3,979
MathOfInsects Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member
Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member
Joined: Feb 2015
Posts: 3,979
Originally Posted by Josh Paxton
I happen to have gotten lucky and won that portion of the genetic lottery, so yeah, I can reach all the 10ths. Db to F is the toughest, but I can get it, just barely. And yes, it comes in exceedingly handy for the music I play. Of course rolling them would be an option, but there are many times when I really like being able to come down on a good, solid 10th in the left hand.

I've said this here before and I'll say it again, despite a surprising amount of negative feedback when I first mentioned it: given advances in manufacturing technology, I would love to see a company make keyboards with scaled-width keys for different hand sizes, for players who want to reach 10ths but can't on standard size keys. Some people likened this to lowering the hoop for shorter basketball players, which I would consider an apt analogy if you view making music as a competition. I don't. I want people who have the desire and the drive to have every opportunity to play the music they'd like to play, and not be hung up by arbitrary physical limitations.


But then how would you arbitrarily keep people out of the club??


"
Re: Can you play 10ths? [Re: Josh Paxton] #2996074 06/26/19 09:28 PM
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 6,217
Dave Ferris Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member
Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 6,217
When I was in my 20s, I struggled to play tenths, in any key. But I just kept at it -- doing some stretching that Terry Trotter and Leonid Hambro showed me, working on Classical pieces that Incorporated wide intervals. Even playing chord voicings with a ninth, or minor 9th interval has helped stretch out my LH for the tenth. Now I can actually play 10ths in my LH more proficiently then my RH.

Yes, I still roll B,E A, Ab, Db, Eb and Bb. But I can play the ii and iii minor 9th, with a 6th or Dominant 7th in the middle, of all those keys.

When playing solo, I'll often resort to a 5th, or I,V, 9 in the LH before sliding up and hitting the accompanying chord. Chopin's music, along with working on some of aforementioned transcriptions, are great for improving the LH reach.

Re: Can you play 10ths? [Re: konaboy] #2996076 06/26/19 09:37 PM
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 6,665
G
GregC Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member
Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member
G
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 6,665
There are some things I can brag about on the Internet, but playing 10ths is not one wink

Re: Can you play 10ths? [Re: Dave Ferris] #2996078 06/26/19 09:45 PM
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 6,217
Dave Ferris Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member
Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 6,217
The Chopin "Harp" Etude, op.25 #1 in Ab is a great study for both hands. Even played very slow. Especially if you can get a Legato sound without the pedal. That has helped my reach immensely studying and playing that particular Etude.

Re: Can you play 10ths? [Re: Adan] #2996082 06/26/19 10:03 PM
Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 1,007
konaboy Offline OP
Platinum Member
OP Offline
Platinum Member
Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 1,007
Originally Posted by Adan
Is there a style of playing that requires hitting 10ths? I'm genuinely asking, because I don't know. I've always been under the impression that it's optional, so do what works best for you...


i was just watching the rather good Homespun jazz piano lesson with Steve Allen and he used it pretty comprehensively as a very full sounding way to accompany himself. Not only outlining the chords with the 10ths, but adding extra notes and walking the 10ths up and down in passing between the chords.

It struck me that this technique allows you to use just one hand to play the bass and harmony at the same time without it sounding cluttered or muddy, leaving the right hand free for melody and embellishments.


hang out with me at woody piano shack
Re: Can you play 10ths? [Re: konaboy] #2996091 06/26/19 11:56 PM
Joined: Sep 2000
Posts: 5,308
linwood Offline
MPN Advisory Board
MP Hall of Fame Member
Offline
MPN Advisory Board
MP Hall of Fame Member
Joined: Sep 2000
Posts: 5,308
Only on white to white or black to black. -10 is good anywhere.

Re: Can you play 10ths? [Re: konaboy] #2996092 06/27/19 12:06 AM
Joined: Nov 2018
Posts: 198
Docbop Offline
Senior Member
Offline
Senior Member
Joined: Nov 2018
Posts: 198
Good to know I'm not alone. I can slowly hit 10ths on the white keys with left hand. My right hand a 9th is it. I think because of growing up a guitar and bass player my left hand is used to stretching especially from playing bass. I think if I had started piano when young instead of Ancient then I would of developed more reach when working on it. Hands can change some when starting young and working on stretching and making cartilage more pliable.

I studied guitar with legend Ted Greene and he showed me some of the stretching he did to increase his stretch. Also you can see with guitar player who start young and practice a lot how their fingers start growing slightly crooked and some the ends of fingers will mushroom from fretting strings. I'm sure there is some equivalent with piano player who start young.

Re: Can you play 10ths? [Re: konaboy] #2996097 06/27/19 12:36 AM
Joined: Jun 2015
Posts: 1,243
CowboyNQ Offline
Platinum Member
Offline
Platinum Member
Joined: Jun 2015
Posts: 1,243
I can't play 10ths. I do sometimes play 9ths - which would be good except that it happens when I'm trying to play octaves.

Re: Can you play 10ths? [Re: CowboyNQ] #2996098 06/27/19 12:46 AM
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 6,665
G
GregC Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member
Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member
G
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 6,665
which reminds me- I can play the 8 and 9 note RH with my pinkie

For LH , the same using my thumb.

Something tells me this is not especially unique. wink

Re: Can you play 10ths? [Re: konaboy] #2996100 06/27/19 12:52 AM
Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 2,738
Marzzz Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member
Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member
Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 2,738
I can play 10ths, which is surprising because my hands are really not that big.

Re: Can you play 10ths? [Re: konaboy] #2996111 06/27/19 02:09 AM
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 6,461
Jazz+ Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member
Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 6,461
I can play the white tenths and the black tenths but not the mixed colors.
I like to play broken 10ths walking in quarter note rhythm, it's my lazy man's stride.

Last edited by Jazz+; 06/27/19 02:41 AM.

Casio PX-S3000 | Mojo 61 | Fender Rhodes | 1966 Mason & Hamlin piano
Re: Can you play 10ths? [Re: konaboy] #2996113 06/27/19 02:24 AM
Joined: Dec 2018
Posts: 335
S
Sam CA Offline
Senior Member
Offline
Senior Member
S
Joined: Dec 2018
Posts: 335
I can do that comfortably in any key but I got relatively long fingers.

https://youtu.be/LfGE_qmhHSg?t=44

Re: Can you play 10ths? [Re: konaboy] #2996114 06/27/19 02:54 AM
Joined: Jan 2014
Posts: 1,342
Tom Williams Offline
Platinum Member
Offline
Platinum Member
Joined: Jan 2014
Posts: 1,342
I can barely reach a ninth, and not reliably enough to incorporate it in my playing. Often I use my ring finger, rather than pinky, to reach octaves. In either case, even an octave reach fatigues me pretty quickly.


-Tom Williams
<First name><At>AirNetworking<dot>com
PC361, PX-5S, AX-Edge
M-Audio Keystation 88, Axiom 61
Re: Can you play 10ths? [Re: Tom Williams] #2996121 06/27/19 04:35 AM
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 6,217
Dave Ferris Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member
Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 6,217
Another good exercise for expanding your reach is play a Chromatic scale up and down the octave, in octaves, with the LH alone starting on low C. All the white keys get fingered 5/1 while all the black keys are 4/1. Strive for a Legato/connected sound with no pedal. Add the RH same fingering -- 1/5 on white and 1/4 on black.

Also Maj 7 intervals , again chromatically alternating 5/2 and 5/1 fingering.

Starting on C Maj. 7 - 5/2 Db ma7 5/1 D maj7 5/2 Eb Ma7 5/1 E Ma7 5/2 F Maj7 5/1 Gb Maj 7 5/1 G Maj7 5/2 Ab Maj7 5/1 A maj7 5/2 Bb Maj7 5/1 B Maj7 5/2 C Maj7 5/1 and then descend. Again strive for the most connected sound you can get with no pedal. These aren't easy so go slow and don't over do. And try and keep the same hand position.

To add a greater level of difficulty on the Maj 7s alternate 5/2 and 4/1 going up chromatically. Except E and F get 5/2. Basically again all the black key Maj 7 intervals get the 4/1 fingering.

Last edited by Dave Ferris; 06/27/19 04:50 AM.
Re: Can you play 10ths? [Re: konaboy] #2996124 06/27/19 05:03 AM
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 13,313
J. Dan Offline
Bannination Free Since '08
10k Club
Offline
Bannination Free Since '08
10k Club
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 13,313
At first I thought you were talking timing, not span. My brain almost exploded trying to count 10th notes. As for span, you got it or you don't. Those who are sympathetic will say it's not the span of the hand, it's the motion or the ocean....or something. People with small appendages can still live full lives.


Dan

Acoustic/Electric stringed instruments ranging from 4 to 230 strings, hammered, picked, fingered, slapped, and plucked. Analog and Digital Electronic instruments, reeds, and throat/mouth.
Re: Can you play 10ths? [Re: konaboy] #2996140 06/27/19 10:49 AM
Joined: Aug 2014
Posts: 1,347
Al Quinn Offline
Platinum Member
Offline
Platinum Member
Joined: Aug 2014
Posts: 1,347
I can reach white to white, black to black, some white to black (i.e., C to Eb but not B to D#), and some black to white (i.e., C# to E but not Db to F).

Sometimes I roll a tenth I can't reach. If I'm trying to get the stride piano with tenths sound I'll sometimes play a tenth that's unreachable with my left hand with my right hand. With the right timing amongst whatever else the right hand is doing this can create the illusion of playing tenths with the left hand.

Re: Can you play 10ths? [Re: Adan] #2996143 06/27/19 11:06 AM
Joined: Aug 2014
Posts: 1,347
Al Quinn Offline
Platinum Member
Offline
Platinum Member
Joined: Aug 2014
Posts: 1,347
Originally Posted by Adan
Is there a style of playing that requires hitting 10ths? I'm genuinely asking, because I don't know. I've always been under the impression that it's optional, so do what works best for you.

I agree with Joe that a rolled 10th can be just as compelling at a struck one.

Tenths sound great for stride piano.

Oscar plays beautiful LH accompaniment with lots of 10ths. I seem to recall reading somewhere that he could reach 12ths.


Re: Can you play 10ths? [Re: MathOfInsects] #2996145 06/27/19 11:11 AM
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 20,651
Joe Muscara Offline
Triple Secret Banninated
20k Club
Offline
Triple Secret Banninated
20k Club
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 20,651
Originally Posted by MathOfInsects
Originally Posted by Josh Paxton
I happen to have gotten lucky and won that portion of the genetic lottery, so yeah, I can reach all the 10ths. Db to F is the toughest, but I can get it, just barely. And yes, it comes in exceedingly handy for the music I play. Of course rolling them would be an option, but there are many times when I really like being able to come down on a good, solid 10th in the left hand.

I've said this here before and I'll say it again, despite a surprising amount of negative feedback when I first mentioned it: given advances in manufacturing technology, I would love to see a company make keyboards with scaled-width keys for different hand sizes, for players who want to reach 10ths but can't on standard size keys. Some people likened this to lowering the hoop for shorter basketball players, which I would consider an apt analogy if you view making music as a competition. I don't. I want people who have the desire and the drive to have every opportunity to play the music they'd like to play, and not be hung up by arbitrary physical limitations.


But then how would you arbitrarily keep people out of the club??

With his attitude and nasty looks.


The great thing about music is that there's always something to learn. The frustrating thing about music is that there's always something to learn!
Re: Can you play 10ths? [Re: Josh Paxton] #2996156 06/27/19 01:01 PM
Joined: Jun 2013
Posts: 609
S
stillearning Offline
Gold Member
Offline
Gold Member
S
Joined: Jun 2013
Posts: 609
Originally Posted by Josh Paxton

I've said this here before and I'll say it again, despite a surprising amount of negative feedback when I first mentioned it: given advances in manufacturing technology, I would love to see a company make keyboards with scaled-width keys for different hand sizes, for players who want to reach 10ths but can't on standard-size keys. Some people likened this to lowering the hoop for shorter basketball players, which I would consider an apt analogy if you view making music as a competition. I don't. I want people who have the desire and the drive to have every opportunity to play the music they'd like to play, and not be hung up by arbitrary physical limitations.

As someone who canít, but would like to be able, to reach tenths, I just donít think I would like to have keyboards available in multiple widths. I can see the value, if one were to only ever play on the same width keybed, but is that realistic for most of us? I think it would be problematic adjusting from board to board if there were multiple widths available.


I would like to apologize to anyone I have not yet offended. Please be patient and I will get to you shortly.
Re: Can you play 10ths? [Re: konaboy] #2996165 06/27/19 01:28 PM
Joined: Nov 2014
Posts: 7,272
ElmerJFudd Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member
Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member
Joined: Nov 2014
Posts: 7,272
^^^
Maybe just one manufacturer offering a controller.
Arenít Yamaha semiweight synth actions narrower?


Live: Casio PX-560, Roland VR-700
Home: Rebuilt 1910 Chickering 5'2", Fender Rhodes MKI 88k, Yamaha S90ES
Re: Can you play 10ths? [Re: ElmerJFudd] #2996170 06/27/19 01:53 PM
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 1,212
PianoMan51 Offline
Platinum Member
Offline
Platinum Member
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 1,212
From my point of view, Ďwalking tenths Ď is a piano technique that disappeared in the 40ís. Once the upright and electric bass became their own thing, thereís no need for a piano to double those notes. My jazz teacher in the 70ís told me about the shift in playing big band piano in the 40ís. Conservative band leaders required the pianist to always play stride. Progressive band leaders allowed pianists to use the modern style without the bass line. He expressed this as a relief when he joined The Thundering Herd.

For solo playing I love walking tenths because it immediately brings us back to 1920. But itís throwing a middle finger to your bass player today. Bass players who play with me regularly get to understand that just occasionally I will intrude into their space, with a boogie woogie or walking tenths progression, for a specific effect, but then Iíll get out of their way!

Page 1 of 2 1 2

Moderated by  Dave Bryce, Stephen Fortner 

Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.3