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#2923922 - 04/28/18 03:09 PM Re: New synth: DSI Sequential X [Re: Marzzz]
David Emm Offline
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It makes perfect sense that Dave would go with a quality sample house like 8Dio for this kind of hybrid. I've had a couple of quality workstations, but its been more rare to find a synth-type synth that had a decent acoustic bank in the mix. It can be a best-of-both-worlds situation if done well. It seems like this could be one of 'em. I'm amused by people's distaste for one filter or another. I've had a 50/50 relationship between onboard filters and outboard boxes. Don't tell me you've failed the GAS test by not having at least four angles of approach when there are so many options like Serum, Moogerfoogers (hardware or soft) and Eurorack modules ad infinitum!
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#2923926 - 04/28/18 03:27 PM Re: New synth: DSI Sequential X [Re: David Emm]
Markyboard Offline
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Some spices make food taste way better than others. Still I don't want all my meals to taste the same.

Or something like that facepalm


Edited by Markyboard (04/28/18 03:46 PM)

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#2923933 - 04/28/18 04:05 PM Re: New synth: DSI Sequential X [Re: Markyboard]
mate stubb Offline
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Sorta like having knobby hardware Omnisphere. I can dig it.
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#2923939 - 04/28/18 05:09 PM Re: New synth: DSI Sequential X [Re: Marzzz]
Mark Schmieder Offline
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Until this afternoon, I had only seen a small snapshot image, and wasn't interested. After watching/hearing the demo though, I am intrigued, and if the snapshot image posted today is real vs. faked, then it has enough keys and may include 8DIO piano library sounds.

Interestingly, the 8DIO piano libraries are some of the few that I don't own, but they do sound good in the context of the synthesized sounds. This might indeed end up being a next generation PEK that also includes aspects of Nord's hybrid synths.
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#2923953 - 04/28/18 06:48 PM Re: New synth: DSI Sequential X [Re: dsetto]
Mark Schmieder Offline
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I liked the Evolver architecture and sound programming, but ultimately sold my MEK (never had a PEK) as I felt it was too lo-fi overall, with a high noise floor, and that it takes over a mix too easily.

So, in the end, all bass and lead parts got replaced with Minimoog Voyager and the like, and the recorded MEK parts (that can no longer receive a "re-take") are all spacey and evolving effects, which it excelled at in a way that I feel no DSI synth since then has quite matched.
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#2923959 - 04/28/18 07:32 PM Re: New synth: DSI Sequential X [Re: Mark Schmieder]
ElmerJFudd Online   content
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Itís a rompler probably with analogue filters and fx. With a bit of luck itíll be a WaveStation 2. 8dio did the samples?

https://8dio.com/instruments/?&146

Anyone else feel that this rains a bit on the Waldorf Quantum's parade?
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#2923962 - 04/28/18 08:00 PM Re: New synth: DSI Sequential X [Re: ElmerJFudd]
Mark Schmieder Offline
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I'm not a fan of 8DIO samples for the most part. When Tonehammer split, the Soundiron vision was closer to my ideal. 8DIO is more Hollywood-oriented (though both have that focus) and I find most of their libraries too "big" and "epic" sounding. But that might just work in the context of a wave table synthesizer that is sort of in ROMpler territory.

I've heard a bit more about this keyboard now, and it appears to be somewhat of a successor to the P2000 and the WAVESTATION, in terms of its conceptual heritage. I haven't yet heard any specifics about filters etc.

This is probably the last thing I'll say until the public announcement, as from Monday onwards, almost anything I hear will be insider stuff that should not be publicized, so it's safer if I don't stress over how public my sources of info are.

Having said that, I won't likely personally have a chance to play one before its release, but a specific co-worker or two will. My company has a strong relationship with DSI -- though we're in different fields of audio. So we sometimes give each other sneak previews, as we use their synths to test speakers and vice-versa. Curtis filters ain't so bad BTW. :-)


Edited by Mark Schmieder (04/28/18 08:01 PM)
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#2923964 - 04/28/18 08:28 PM Re: New synth: DSI Sequential X [Re: Mark Schmieder]
ksoper Online   content
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Originally Posted By: Mark Schmieder

I've heard a bit more about this keyboard now, and it appears to be somewhat of a successor to the P2000 and the WAVESTATION, in terms of its conceptual heritage.



A knobby Wavestation would be enormous fun.

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#2923966 - 04/28/18 08:58 PM Re: New synth: DSI Sequential X [Re: ksoper]
MojoGuyPan Offline
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Anyone else here think this marks the beginning of the end for DSI?

Dave putting out a synth with a side of ROMpler wreaks of desperation and a lack of new ideas.

When Dave started off with the Evolver and then the analog synths I would've never thought he'd circle back and start putting out ROMplers.

It's like the late 80's all over again.

If I wanted a ROMpler, I'd get a Kronos or Montage. The Japanese do them better than anyone.


Edited by MojoGuyPan (04/28/18 09:00 PM)

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#2923967 - 04/28/18 09:11 PM Re: New synth: DSI Sequential X [Re: MojoGuyPan]
Mark Schmieder Offline
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Dave only did the almost-pure analog synths due to market demand. If you've read interviews with him over the past 20 years, you'll find that he considers the future to be digital (or even software vs. hardware). But he also believes in giving the people what they want. He's done well enough with the analog revival synths, that he seems to now feel he can take a risk on a more innovative synth design.

Obviously, I interpret the motivations behind this new model (and whether it's innovative or stale), 180 degrees from MGP above. John Bowen has a similar philosophy about the future of synthesis. But he's not as good about getting things to market.


Edited by Mark Schmieder (04/28/18 09:12 PM)
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#2923970 - 04/28/18 09:25 PM Re: New synth: DSI Sequential X [Re: MojoGuyPan]
mate stubb Offline
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Originally Posted By: MojoGuyPan
Anyone else here think this marks the beginning of the end for DSI?

Dave putting out a synth with a side of ROMpler wreaks of desperation and a lack of new ideas.


No reason to slag Dave. He's one of the good guys and invented MIDI for starters. Easy to sit on the sidelines and snipe.
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#2923971 - 04/28/18 09:38 PM Re: New synth: DSI Sequential X [Re: mate stubb]
ElmerJFudd Online   content
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At some point when your thinking on oscillators you realize a Wavetable opens up a lot of sonic possibilities, as does digitally drawing your own waveform, and then you realize - well heck, a strait up sample is a great starting point for sound design. There's more than one way to skim a cat - just take a look at that new Korg Prologue. They all look very enjoyable with many creative possibilities.
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#2923972 - 04/28/18 09:50 PM Re: New synth: DSI Sequential X [Re: mate stubb]
davedoerfler Offline
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Originally Posted By: mate stubb
Originally Posted By: MojoGuyPan
Anyone else here think this marks the beginning of the end for DSI?

Dave putting out a synth with a side of ROMpler wreaks of desperation and a lack of new ideas.


No reason to slag Dave. He's one of the good guys and invented MIDI for starters. Easy to sit on the sidelines and snipe.


unless you are a troll. rolleyes
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#2923989 - 04/29/18 04:43 AM Re: New synth: DSI Sequential X [Re: davedoerfler]
Markyboard Offline
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Found this DSI Synth Comparison Summary that may be of interest to some:

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#2923990 - 04/29/18 05:00 AM Re: New synth: DSI Sequential X [Re: MojoGuyPan]
AnotherScott Online   content
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Originally Posted By: ElmerJFudd
Itís a rompler probably with analogue filters and fx.

and a whole lot of knobs...

Originally Posted By: MojoGuyPan
Anyone else here think this marks the beginning of the end for DSI?

Dave putting out a synth with a side of ROMpler wreaks of desperation and a lack of new ideas.

or you could say it's the analog synths that are are recycles of old ideas, and a knobby rompler is a new twist into far less charted teritory.

Originally Posted By: MojoGuyPan
If I wanted a ROMpler, I'd get a Kronos or Montage. The Japanese do them better than anyone.
No Kurzweil? (Not Japanese.)

Assuming there is indeed a lot of rompler in this board, I don't think the idea would so much be to do better acoustic instrument emulations (though partnernng with a VST company may indeed give them excellent resources here), but more to be able to do all kinds of instant and real-time manipulations. Kronos and Montage are excellent romplers (and then some), but they are not knobby in this sense.
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#2923994 - 04/29/18 05:24 AM Re: New synth: DSI Sequential X [Re: davedoerfler]
MojoGuyPan Offline
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Registered: 07/30/08
Posts: 427
Loc: Mainland Florida
Quote:

No reason to slag Dave. He's one of the good guys and invented MIDI for starters. Easy to sit on the sidelines and snipe.


unless you are a troll. rolleyes



Really Dave? Don't tell me you're drinking the Kool-Aid on Dave Smith. He has been an innovative guy but a ROMpler? Yeah he invented MIDI, put out some awesome synths with Sequential, innovated with the VS and kick started the new era of polyphonic analogs but the X is a sad entry.

At this point he seems to value being prolific over being cutting edge. If he didn't have a new idea for a synth why force it and put out a rehash of the new Prophet with a generous side of ROMpler. Does he really need to release something new each year?

To be honest, this is better than just releasing a desktop of something else. Maybe I'm being a bit harsh on Dave, maybe he's getting a lot of requests to produce a ROMpler and he just wants to capitalize on the demand. So maybe he is doing it just for business.

If that is so, what does it tell us, that all roads lead to ROMpler? For years everyone complained about the lack of analogs, lack of warmth, how ROMplers sucked the life out of music and were bland. People hated them. A ROMpler was good for piano but a synth?

Now after 20 years of synth making, Dave is finding convergence on the very same type of synth that people were demanding an alternative to and hence grew DSI into a major player.

Just remember the late 90's people were beating on Yamaha, Korg and especially Roland to revisit analog. The big three were fine with ROMplers and the masses turned to Moog and DSI. After DSI's success the big three saw the market and started putting out VA's and analogs.

You mean to tell me now, Dave Smith's big announcement is a ROMpler while Korg's was the Prologue. Is the world not upside down here? Am I really the only one who notices the absurdity of this.

I wish Dave would've innovated with the X. It doesn't have to be analog. He seems in love with the possibilities of digital synthesis. Why not create a new innovative digital synthesizer? Why just add a ROMpler to the Prophet? Dave does try to milk the designs for all he can but this one is particularly offensive to my sensibilities.

I guess now we know that Bowen was the Lennon and Dave the McCartney of that relationship. Wings facepalm.

The Prophet with a lame piano sample, just what the world needed. Thanks Dave Smith.





Edited by MojoGuyPan (04/29/18 05:58 AM)

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#2923999 - 04/29/18 05:49 AM Re: New synth: DSI Sequential X [Re: MojoGuyPan]
brenner13 Offline
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We don't even know the particulars about this synth. Many seem to think the short demo gives the impression of wave manipulation more like a WaveStation than like the mother of all ROMplers, the M1. Assuming this new synth is just a ROMpler and DWGS-like seems a little shortsighted and ignores the weird morphed-up sounds as the teaser vid fades out.

Perhaps Dave wants to expand upon the Prophet VS concept. Good for him.
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#2924000 - 04/29/18 05:58 AM Re: New synth: DSI Sequential X [Re: brenner13]
RudyS Offline
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Indeed, lets keep the judgement for after we know about what this synth is about....
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#2924001 - 04/29/18 06:03 AM Re: New synth: DSI Sequential X [Re: MojoGuyPan]
Theo Verelst Offline
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Regarding the Mr Smith issues, I think most people here are appreciative of his long standing achievements, from first programmable polysynth (with good sound) over Midi and influence on the world wide electronic music instrument industry, through setting up research (that personally interested me) for as I recall Korg and Yamaha (physical modeling), and a lot of recent analog+digital instruments. That's hardly at stake here.

The sounds an analog can make in practice have a different character for most even undiscerning musicians, thus far. So, there was (and is) a reason to want analog sounds. If that comes throug analog mixing and amping (not to mention recording) is another matter. I'm sure (I'm sure he won't mind) Dave could tell you a lot more about the reasons for analogs, and the methods he knows about as an EE to create certain waves, and not others.

Maybe the current San Francisco company doesn't serve the purpose for him to show off his new designs, or even to maximize profits in the musical instruments market. I think b*tching reasoning about what right or wrong without a scientific, moral, or musical compass isn't doing the synthesizer industry any good, and probably has done more bad than good in the past.

T.

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#2924003 - 04/29/18 06:22 AM Re: New synth: DSI Sequential X [Re: MojoGuyPan]
AnotherScott Online   content
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Originally Posted By: MojoGuyPan
Maybe I'm being a bit harsh on Dave, maybe he's getting a lot of requests to produce a ROMpler and he just wants to capitalize on the demand. So maybe he is doing it just for business.

Which (a) is a perfectly good reason to put out a product, i.e. giving customers what they want and making a living; and (b) doesn't mean he can't still put his own unique twist on it and produce something really interesting. We know so little about this, why immedlately assume there's nothing novel about it? Especially when, even from that little demo, we're seeing things that you can't similarly do on (to use your examples) a Kronos or a Montage.

Originally Posted By: MojoGuyPan
If that is so, what does it tell us, that all roads lead to ROMpler?

Romplers are valuable tools... and if DSI does one, not only will it probably be unique in some ways, but it doesn't mean he's phasing out his analog synths or anything else he may be thinking about. Why not expand into different boards and technologies for different customers? There's no zero sum game here. Until people really get a sense of how this thing sounds and operates, and hear what they (or others) might be able to do with it, I see no reason to rag on it.

Originally Posted By: MojoGuyPan
After DSI's success the big three saw the market and started putting out VA's and analogs.

You mean to tell me now, Dave Smith's big announcement is a ROMpler while Korg's was the Prologue. Is the world not upside down here? Am I really the only one who notices this.

DSI is a small company. In that context, often the key to success is in finding ways to be where the big guys aren't. If they're encroaching into your teritory, you look atother territories.

Originally Posted By: MojoGuyPan
The Prophet with a lame piano sample, just what the world needed.

Why assume that's the only sample? Why assume the synth functions equate to a Prophet? Though oddly enough, I remember when being able to get a decent piano out of your synth was something of a holy grail. ;-) There are "single board" synth players who do occasionally have use for some traditional sounds. If you actually wanted a knobby synth that could also cover bread and butter sounds like piano, what choices do they have these days? Nord Stage 3 and Studiologic Sledge, I think. (Maybe King Korg, though it's not really so knobby.) I'm not saying this is what (or the entirety of what) the new DSI is, I'm saying that even just that is not necessarily a bad thng.
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#2924011 - 04/29/18 07:03 AM Re: New synth: DSI Sequential X [Re: AnotherScott]
Markyboard Offline
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I believe the most innovative synth imaginable will not sell very well. You need not look very far to see the interest (i.e putting you money where your mouth is) is just not there.

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#2924021 - 04/29/18 08:47 AM Re: New synth: DSI Sequential X [Re: Markyboard]
ElmerJFudd Online   content
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^^^
Hardware synths for studio work compete heavily with software synths these days. And that has creeped into live with MainStage, Cantabile with NI Massive, Omnisphere, etc. Hardware synths that aren't knobby and or flat out analog (which differentiates them) are a tough sell. Also, while great for sound design and replicating classic sounds from scratch - these types of instruments are better suited to modern production than gigging. That's not to say not endlessly fun, great sounding, or inspiring. Just not horribly practical. But bedroom production, project studio - these markets are big right now.
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#2924024 - 04/29/18 08:54 AM Re: New synth: DSI Sequential X [Re: Markyboard]
JerryA Offline
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Notwithstanding his analog credentials, DS has always been able to see digital applications before others could. (examples are MIDI, vector synthesis and the oscillators/effects in previous DSI hybrid synths).

For me the jury is firmly out because we can't really prejudge what DS hath wrought. It's all very interesting to me.

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#2924029 - 04/29/18 09:11 AM Re: New synth: DSI Sequential X [Re: RichieP_MechE]
Al Coda Offline
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Now give me that Prophet X in a "T8" style flattop case, w/ quality (!) 76 weighted keys A-C and poly AT,- and Iīm in.

A.C.

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#2924032 - 04/29/18 09:15 AM Re: New synth: DSI Sequential X [Re: JerryA]
Al Coda Offline
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Originally Posted By: JerryA
It's all very interesting to me.


To me too !

A.C.

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#2924034 - 04/29/18 09:20 AM Re: New synth: DSI Sequential X [Re: Al Coda]
burningbusch Online   content
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A fun game, no doubt.



Busch.

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#2924039 - 04/29/18 09:30 AM Re: New synth: DSI Sequential X [Re: ElmerJFudd]
AnotherScott Online   content
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Originally Posted By: ElmerJFudd
Hardware synths for studio work compete heavily with software synths these days. And that has creeped into live with MainStage, Cantabile with NI Massive, Omnisphere, etc. Hardware synths that aren't knobby and or flat out analog (which differentiates them) are a tough sell.

Yeah... for "rompler sounds"(among othe things), you'll generally get the best from software, and people continue to get more comfortable gigging with computers. I think the tablet form factor helps... and if Apple either brings Mainstage to the iPad or creates a "convertible" Macbook, I think that will provide an even bigger threat to hardware. Operational ergonomics--including knobiness--is one of the things that can keep hardware relevant as anything more than controllers.
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#2924040 - 04/29/18 09:36 AM Re: New synth: DSI Sequential X [Re: JerryA]
Markyboard Offline
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Originally Posted By: JerryA


For me the jury is firmly out because we can't really prejudge what DS hath wrought.


What? Since when? idk
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#2924044 - 04/29/18 09:53 AM Re: New synth: DSI Sequential X [Re: MojoGuyPan]
Radagast Offline
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Registered: 01/20/18
Posts: 202
Originally Posted By: MojoGuyPan
Quote:

No reason to slag Dave. He's one of the good guys and invented MIDI for starters. Easy to sit on the sidelines and snipe.


unless you are a troll. rolleyes



Really Dave? Don't tell me you're drinking the Kool-Aid on Dave Smith. He has been an innovative guy but a ROMpler? Yeah he invented MIDI, put out some awesome synths with Sequential, innovated with the VS and kick started the new era of polyphonic analogs but the X is a sad entry.

At this point he seems to value being prolific over being cutting edge. If he didn't have a new idea for a synth why force it and put out a rehash of the new Prophet with a generous side of ROMpler. Does he really need to release something new each year?

To be honest, this is better than just releasing a desktop of something else. Maybe I'm being a bit harsh on Dave, maybe he's getting a lot of requests to produce a ROMpler and he just wants to capitalize on the demand. So maybe he is doing it just for business.

If that is so, what does it tell us, that all roads lead to ROMpler? For years everyone complained about the lack of analogs, lack of warmth, how ROMplers sucked the life out of music and were bland. People hated them. A ROMpler was good for piano but a synth?

Now after 20 years of synth making, Dave is finding convergence on the very same type of synth that people were demanding an alternative to and hence grew DSI into a major player.

Just remember the late 90's people were beating on Yamaha, Korg and especially Roland to revisit analog. The big three were fine with ROMplers and the masses turned to Moog and DSI. After DSI's success the big three saw the market and started putting out VA's and analogs.

You mean to tell me now, Dave Smith's big announcement is a ROMpler while Korg's was the Prologue. Is the world not upside down here? Am I really the only one who notices the absurdity of this.

I wish Dave would've innovated with the X. It doesn't have to be analog. He seems in love with the possibilities of digital synthesis. Why not create a new innovative digital synthesizer? Why just add a ROMpler to the Prophet? Dave does try to milk the designs for all he can but this one is particularly offensive to my sensibilities.

I guess now we know that Bowen was the Lennon and Dave the McCartney of that relationship. Wings facepalm.

The Prophet with a lame piano sample, just what the world needed. Thanks Dave Smith.





Really MojoGuyPan? Have you played the X? Probably not. You don't know what all it can do. You're basing your presumptious opinion on a rather lame and short video with a noisy and cacophonous ending. Why don't you wait until it actually comes out and you play it OR there is complete information on what resources it has instead of forming a hasty and uninformed opinion? Or is it more fun to spew negativity?

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#2924045 - 04/29/18 09:57 AM Re: New synth: DSI Sequential X [Re: MojoGuyPan]
mate stubb Offline
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Originally Posted By: MojoGuyPan


Really Dave? Don't tell me you're drinking the Kool-Aid on Dave Smith. He has been an innovative guy but a ROMpler? Yeah he invented MIDI, put out some awesome synths with Sequential, innovated with the VS and kick started the new era of polyphonic analogs but the X is a sad entry.



You are throwing the term ROMpler around like it's an insult. Do you have some inside knowledge of Dave's design? Do you know if it is confined to vanilla sample playback? That it doesn't do wavetable scanning? Or morphing? Or even granular? Have you ever programmed on a machine capable of sample manipulation and mangling?

Sheesh.
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