New synth: DSI Sequential X

[grndthftzamboni]

 

I get that they have want to run it through the analog filters but...

 

 

I'm adjusting this for you as this is one of the key points of this new synth which is that you can take a sample, something that a lot of folks find easier to work with "in the box" these days, and do something that you absolutely cannot do when working "in the box" which is take a sampled sound and run it through an analog filter path to reshape the original sound into something different. Combining this with the rest of the features that the surface controls and under the hood features and architecture offer means that where some are seeing limitations in voice count others are seeing what appear to be infinite possibilities in designing new and unique sounds.

 

I wish I could afford one but as I recently picked up a new Kurzweil Forte and am looking to sell off some other gear to recoup some of the cost of that it is not on my radar at this time. If it was not for that I would definitely be putting the Prophet X at the top of my "most wanted" list and putting myself down for a preorder today.

[ElmerJFudd]

Yall remember the Ensoniq ESQ-1 and subsequent synths? This reminds me a lot of that - more so than a Wavestation.

[GovernorSilver]

Yall remember the Ensoniq ESQ-1 and subsequent synths? This reminds me a lot of that - more so than a Wavestation.

 

I've been thinking of Emu's Proteus 2000 family myself. I have a member of this family - the Command Station. Similar concepts in that the sound source is a sample-playing oscillator, with a powerful modulation matrix, bunch of LFOs, and resonant filter - albeit a digital one with its own character (Z-plane).

[Markyboard]

Anyone know if the mod source/destination list is out? I may have missed it.

[dsetto]

OT: One thing that's different & contentious about DSI's output, as compared to most all other polyphonic keyboard manufacturers.... Generally, rather than release serial he goes parallel. And then within that serial we see the sharing & evolutions of the R&D & manufacturing. Typically we see 2-3 tiers of a line, top having all features which typically relates to heaviest, which is related to best action.

 

--

I don't remember any of the sample-in-the-front, analog-in-the-back boards. I'm assuming I don't know much about them because they were short-lived once they got to cutting the back of the mullet. And the classic-rock era holdouts in the early 80's were digitized.

[dsetto]

Anyone know if the mod source/destination list is out? I may have missed it.

unverified

 

Sources:

 

Inst1

Inst2

OSC1

OSC2

LFO1

LFO2

LFO3

LFO4

Env LPF

Env VCA

Env 3

Env 4

Slider 1

Slider 2

PitchBnd

ModWheel

Pressure

Breath

Foot

Expression

Velocity

Note Num

Slop Osc 1

Slop Osc 2

Slop 3

Slop 4

Noice

DC

 

Destinations:

 

Inst1 Freq

Inst2 Freq

Inst1 Start

Inst2 Start

Inst1 End

Inst2 End

Inst1 Size

Inst2 Size

Inst1 Center

Inst2 Center

Osc1 Freq

Osc2 Freq

OscAll Freq

Osc1 Shape

Osc2 Shape

OscAll Shape

Osc Slop

Inst1 Level

Inst2 Level

Osc1 Level

Osc2 Level

Osc3 Level

OscAll Level

Inst1 Pan

Inst2 Pan

Osc1 Pan

Osc2 Pan

Cutoff

Resonance

Drive

Cutoff L

Cutoff R

VCA

Pan Spread

Pan

LFO1 Freq

...

LFO4 Freq

LFOAll Freq

LFO1 Amt

...

LFO4 Amt

LFOAll Amt

EnvLPF Amt

EnvVCA Amt

Env3 Amt

Env4 Amt

EnvAll Amt

EnvLFP Att

EnvVCA Att

Env3 Att

Env4 Att

EnvAll Att

EnvLPF Dec

EnvVCA Dec

Env3 Dec

Env4 Dec

EnvAll Dec

EnvLPF Rel

EnvVCA Rel

Env3 Rel

Env4 Rel

EnvAll Rel

Mod1 Amt

...

Mod16 Amt

FX1 Mix

FX2 Mix

FX1 Param 1

FX2 Param 1

FX1 Param 2

FX2 Param 2

FX1 Param 3

FX2 Param 3

[felix]

... one of the key points of this new synth which is that you can take a sample, something that a lot of folks find easier to work with "in the box" these days, and do something that you absolutely cannot do when working "in the box" which is take a sampled sound and run it through an analog filter path to reshape the original sound into something different. Combining this with the rest of the features that the surface controls and under the hood features and architecture offer means that where some are seeing limitations in voice count others are seeing what appear to be infinite possibilities in designing new and unique sounds.

 

This description hits the nail on the head for me. I saw and heard a Prophet X demonstration back in January and it was one of the high points of NAMM (but I was under NDA). The sounds that were coming out of it and the way that they were being manipulated were very impressive. Could you play ROMpler-style sounds with a Prophet X? Yes, but I don't know why you'd want to - that isn't what this is. I called it a "sample-sizer."

[Markyboard]

Thanks Dsetto!

 

Cutoff L

Cutoff R

 

While there's no dedicated knob for this ala PEK/MEK the fact that you can modulate these independently elevates the Prophet X sound sculpting capability tremendously in this artistically immature EE's eyes.

[Theo Verelst]

As a bit of discussion, the idea of a (obviously digital) sample playback machine, combined with an *analog* filter goes back quite far, I think those Akai samplers from the 80s could do that, too.

 

The interesting part of an analog synthesizer being used for digital recordings, apart from ergonomics, so sound-wise, is a bit hard to know everything about. When you use a wholly or partially analog synthesizer with analogue amplification ("normal" amp/speakers, non-digital mixer, etc), there isn't a digital component to "spoil" the sound in any way. Like the Prophet6 or the OB6: quite a joy among all that digital harshness and coldness.

 

It's a possibility to design digital that sounds really good. Taking an analog synth and a digital recorder isn't really one of those possibilities, mostly. It's possible to record some of the analog warmth, and good synth/program designers can make all the difference, but that appears to be a lost art, mostly.

 

I can be fun to have a digital source (like the mentioned P12), and still introduce all kinds of analog effects on a sample, using a well sounding filter, and probably analog VCA. Also, a hardware device can make use of technology for audio-rate modulation, which can make certain synthesis signal paths sound more ok.

 

This instrument doesn't show any sounds in the demos (I've listened to all) that prove there's an interesting digital/analog interplay, or a preparation of the signal to reconstruct beautifully when processed digital, which I suppose is unfortunate for a certain audience.

[MAJUSCULE]

... one of the key points of this new synth which is that you can take a sample, something that a lot of folks find easier to work with "in the box" these days, and do something that you absolutely cannot do when working "in the box" which is take a sampled sound and run it through an analog filter path to reshape the original sound into something different. Combining this with the rest of the features that the surface controls and under the hood features and architecture offer means that where some are seeing limitations in voice count others are seeing what appear to be infinite possibilities in designing new and unique sounds.

 

This description hits the nail on the head for me. I saw and heard a Prophet X demonstration back in January and it was one of the high points of NAMM (but I was under NDA). The sounds that were coming out of it and the way that they were being manipulated were very impressive. Could you play ROMpler-style sounds with a Prophet X? Yes, but I don't know why you'd want to - that isn't what this is. I called it a "sample-sizer."

 

This is exciting.

 

Also, considering how pop/electronic music is made these days, I can see a lot of big name producers rocking these.

[mate stubb]

So if the mod list above is real:

 

Samples can have modulated start time, end time, center, size, and frequency.

 

That means you can assemble a sample that contains a wave table, set size to scan a single entry in the wave table, and modulate center to walk the entries in the table.

 

Viola. Wave table synthesis. NOT JUST A ROMPLER.

 

Modulate Instrument 1 with Oscillator 1 and you have audio rate FM of a sample. NOT JUST A ROMPLER.

[Ken Beaumont]

Very interesting, with a projected MAP of $3,999 it is definitely out of my price range but it doesn't stop me from wanting one!

[Markyboard]

So if the mod list above is real:

 

Samples can have modulated start time, end time, center, size, and frequency.

 

That means you can assemble a sample that contains a wave table, set size to scan a single entry in the wave table, and modulate center to walk the entries in the table.

 

Viola. Wave table synthesis. NOT JUST A ROMPLER.

 

 

Hmmm- not sure you can assemble your own wavetable and 'til now I wasn't sure if the sample set contained wave tables but as stated here...

 

The Sequential Prophet X contains over 150GB of deep-sampled instruments derived from a wide assortment of custom libraries (specifically designed for the Prophet X) and from the 8Dio and private V8P collections. Thousands of deep-sampled instruments and far too many to list. Ambiences, Upright and Electric Basses, Studio Brass Ensemble and Studio Brass Solo Instruments (ex. Trombone, Trumpet, Saxophone etc), Large-Scale Symphonic Choirs, Childrens Choir, Experimental Basses and a large section of custom instruments.

 

Several deep-sampled drum kits and +50 different electronic kits, Massive Ensemble Percussion Sets, Taiko Drums, Guitars (ex. Acoustic, 12-String, Dobro, Electric, Mandolin etc), Thousands of Cinematic Sound Design Tools, Vintage Keyboards (ex. Suitcase, Hammond, Wurlitzer, Clavinet etc), Orchestral Effects. Deep Assortment of both Tonal and Non-Tonal Percussion, Grand Pianos, Upright Pianos, Prepared Pianos. Solo Voices. Studio String and Woodwind Ensembles. Custom Wavetables. Synth Ensembles and thousands of other instruments.

[GovernorSilver]

Custom Wavetables.... hmm....

[marino]

well, it's an interesting mod matrix. I miss noise as a mod source (the Evolver has it!), but if you have the choice of the whole sample library...

Also I'm curious about the osc1 and 2 slop *as a mod source*. What do they do? The other two generic "slops" make more sense to me - to partially randomize a parameter.

Of course, being able to modulate the amplitude of any previously set modulation is very useful.

 

The only things that I'm still seeing as limitations are:

- the lack of analog oscillators

- the lack of more versatility in the filter section

- the low polyphony

- I would have liked some more waveshaping functions. FM is nice, but it has its limits... paradoxically, the "Character" section of the P12, which I have always considered rather useless when using the basic waveforms, would have added a big palette of timbres to the samples.

 

Ok, enough whining... it will be a classy and unique instrument. Now, where did I just put those 4,000 Euros which I had in my pocket...

[burningbusch]

Anyone know if the mod source/destination list is out? I may have missed it.

unverified, unofficial

Sources:

 

Inst1

Inst2

OSC1

OSC2

LFO1

LFO2

LFO3

LFO4

Env LPF

Env VCA

Env 3

Env 4

Slider 1

Slider 2

PitchBnd

ModWheel

Pressure

Breath

Foot

Expression

Velocity

Note Num

Slop Osc 1

Slop Osc 2

Slop 3

Slop 4

Noice

DC

Wonder why the step sequencer isn't listed as a source?

 

Busch

[GovernorSilver]

^because the list is unverified/unofficial

[burningbusch]

This is from the add-on library.

"The Super Grand is an exquisitely deep-sampled Grand Piano. We recorded it in multiple microphone perspectives and up to 10-velocity layers, including Sustains, Una Corda and both Staccatissimo and Staccato short notes with 5 x repetition notes. The shorter articulaofferoffers (sic) the ability to play faster licks on the piano, but retaining the realism and ring-out of shorter notes."

 

I assume an osc can contain a complex multi-velocity multisample, otherwise, I don't see how this "deep sampling" is going to work.

 

Now the question is, can a single osc also contain all these articulations: sustain, una, staccatissimo, staccato and all the repetitions? And the intelligence to do round robins and determine that you're playing staccato, for example? Seems to me, that in order to pull off a complex library like this in a fashion anything like you can on a software instrument, there's got to be programming that goes far beyond a traditional synth framework.

 

Busch.

[Markyboard]

^because the list is unverified/unofficial

 

That's Noice.

[MAJUSCULE]

I think someone mentioned the analog filters as being part of the reason for low polyphony. Am I daft? I don't quite understand that. I would've thought polyphony only related to oscillators/sample size. Sorry, no time to Svengle. You can leave me in the dark if you prefer.

[J. Dan]

I think someone mentioned the analog filters as being part of the reason for low polyphony. Am I daft? I don't quite understand that. I would've thought polyphony only related to oscillators/sample size. Sorry, no time to Svengle. You can leave me in the dark if you prefer.

 

Each and every voice of polyphony has to have it's own filter to run through. With analog, that means a completely separate duplicate filter circuit for each voice. In the digital world, this all done through DSP so it's just a matter of processing power and speed, whereas with analog, it's adding additional circuits which take up real estate and get expensive.

[burningbusch]

I think someone mentioned the analog filters as being part of the reason for low polyphony. Am I daft? I don't quite understand that. I would've thought polyphony only related to oscillators/sample size. Sorry, no time to Svengle. You can leave me in the dark if you prefer.

 

Each voice is going through an analog filter independently (and the related voice specific EGs, modulators, etc) hence the limiting factor. You could just slam an analog filter on to the end of the chain and have it affect all voices, but that's very different.

 

Busch.

[engineerjoel]

OH, so it's okay for Dave to make a 5-octave Prophet X; but, he can't make a 5-octave P6 or OB6???

[ElmerJFudd]

I like the desktops. Thats one of the great uses of a midi cable.

[ProfD]

OH, so it's okay for Dave to make a 5-octave Prophet X; but, he can't make a 5-octave P6 or OB6???

You're not going to bring that up especially when I just bought my P6 two (2) months ago.

 

Of course, I don't find the 49-keys to be limiting because my main KB is a full-sized DP and sometimes the P6 is MIDI'd to it.

 

Also, since the P6 is monotimbral, whether I'm playing LH bass or a lead or comping, the short KB is sufficient for my needs.

 

But, I can see how someone using the P6 in a performance setting and/or as a MIDI controller would want/need more keys rather than using the octave shift.

 

I'm just glad Dave, er, the P6 allows me to change patches on the fly with the touch of a button without turning a knob or menu-diving.

 

Still, I will be laying hands on the Prophet X as soon as it hits my favorite music store.

[Markyboard]

OH, so it's okay for Dave to make a 5-octave Prophet X; but, he can't make a 5-octave P6 or OB6???

 

Maybe he just found his morals .

[GovernorSilver]

 

Still, I will be laying hands on the Prophet X as soon as it hits my favorite music store.

 

I want to be there to watch!

[The Real MC]

Looks like DSI has re-invented the Korg DSS-1. Not meant to be a slight either - Korg never made another product like the DSS-1.

[Doerfler]

OH, so it's okay for Dave to make a 5-octave Prophet X; but, he can't make a 5-octave P6 or OB6???

 

Yes. Yes it is.

[Doerfler]

 

Still, I will be laying hands on the Prophet X as soon as it hits my favorite music store.

 

I want to be there to watch!

 

Moi aussi.

D', coordinate with Ed Spence and we can have a mini hang checking out the the X.

can't wait to play Jump on it.