Nothing to see here, folks. Move along...

[Gtoledo3]

Henchman, I think you did a good job of it. In my mind, this is kind of a "filler" song to a certain extent... this is to the rest of my music what "And Your Bird Can Sing," is to the Beatles music, if that makes any sense. I personally like the original structure better, but if this was a typical artist/ mixer relationship, I would definitely take Henchie's mix no prob. If I put myself into the shoes/ears of others, of the mixes I've listened to so far, I think Henchman's is the best, but there are MANY MIXES I haven't listened to yet.

[fuzz]

[quote]As an addendum to my last post, I guess if it was a harmonic clash, that I liked the result of I wouldn't complain. For example, there were some moments that Craig "harmonized" the vocal that were a little bit hairy...but the were suppossed to be. I guess the ones that I'm referring to are the ones that sound unintentional, but mostly Spacebass's version of the bridge. As far as Loudists/Anon's (they ARE the same person, right?) stuff goes...it's suppossed to be out there, so it's cool. [/quote]yeah that bridge does clash....in fact the whole "song" clashes...... the "harmonic" content of the vocals is really great.....full of memories.....all bad ones. i won't even get into your wonderfull programming and drumming.....please..... dude i have no idea why you fucking with me and i told myself i wasn't going to take the bait but you are really just trying to put me down....and for what???? knowing how to actually play my instruments. but hey they say jealousy is a bitch!!!!!! for someone who just had his shit ass song mixed and/or remixed by many different and talanted people you sure are acting like an ungrateful little bitch! i did my mix and all my parts in less than a day...a client came in and asked how come i was working on such a weak ass song and while i was at it how come i didn't just redo the vocals as well!!!! i really had hope for this project and thought it would bring SSS back to the cool kind of community that it once was..... oh well i was mistaken i suggest you take some time away from the internet and learn how to write/sing/play....then maybe you would have something worth listening to! dbunny.....please remove my mix from your site as I DO NOT WANT TO BE ASSOCIATED WITH THIS KIND OF PERSON IN ANY WAY SHAPE OR FORM! btw...i think all involved did a GREAT job with their mixes considering the source material! now if you excuse me i must be on my way! peace

[Salyphus]

Um, not to butt in or anything, but we did sort of agree on a 'gloves off' approach to critiques. Perhaps you didn't see that or agree with that idea? I honestly don't think GT3 was trying to put you down or attack you, just giving his unfiltered opinion. A lot of people have said they really like your mix (myself included).

[Gtoledo3]

Wow, You really took that the wrong way! Sonically, I think you're mix was great. I just don't like the parts you played. I'm not calling you a poor musician or anything, I just don't like it...man :confused:

[Gtoledo3]

Spacebass, I didn't mean to turn the whole thing into something bad for you. None of my comments were mean-spirited.

[Salyphus]

(mediator hat on, please feel free to tell me to shut the fuck up and I will ;) ) GT3, for your part you did seem to offer your opinions on spacebass' parts more times than was necessary, we probably got the point after the first couple times. I would rather see you offer opinions on other mixes that you've heard rather than the same one over and over. Peace! :thu:

[Lee Flier]

DAMN. Did everybody forget to take their Midol this week or what? I've seen some people get pretty worked up over stuff that doesn't warrant it. I have no problem with GT3 or anybody else being totally honest, I appreciate it in fact. The fact that different people approached mixing differently should come as no surprise. And the fact that some people (including the artist) prefer certain approaches over others should come as no surprise either. And spacebass, GT3 doesn't need to be "grateful" that people mixed his song. He already has a mix of it that he's probably happy with. He doesn't intend to release it anyway, and made it clear that it was not one of his best efforts, it was just something that could potentially go in a lot of different directions so we could have fun with it. The mixfest was not his idea, and if anything WE all ought to be thankful that someone was willing to donate raw tracks for this event. Everybody hears things differently and that's the whole point of this thing... this has been made glaringly obvious by the huge differences between all the mixes. No need for anybody to get their dander up. I hope this doesn't tarnish what has otherwise been a very cool event. :(

[Gtoledo3]

Lee, I got your tracks yeterday! I'm excited to hear them, I'm going to my studio later tonight, so I'll check them out. ;)

[Master Zap]

Well for the record I must say that when I heard those chords on the "bridge" in GT3's original tracks I thought "ouch, that's the first thing I'd fix". To each their own, methinks ;) And besides, listen to the vocals ONLY. It's one note, more or less. You can put a ton of things to it and it'll work. I think the "clashes" are in your head GT. Sorry, but my opinion. /Z

[Henchman]

well, if anybody here thinks my mix is shit or absoluteley hates some of or everything about it, please say so. I have no problem with anybody having an opinion. What I really hate is peole saying tkey like somethign, but really thinking it sucks. Personally, I find it much more helpfull when people point out what they thinks is wrong, instead of what is right.

[Lee Flier]

Zap, et al, The problem is that when you starting messing with chord changes and such you're messing with the fundamental structure of the song. Which, for a project like this is your "right," but I don't like to impose my own ego on something quite so much. Without trying to start a flame war, that's a philosophical difference I have personally with all the toys available in a DAW to completely change a song - it becomes easy for the mixer to think he's the artist. Which is all right if you're mixing your own work, but if you're mixing somebody else's work I think the way they performed it has some bearing. :D Unless you're the producer and the label is paying you to keep the artist in line. :D But no matter - again, this was for everybody to have fun, and the rules were "anything goes," so... Whether other chords "work" behind the bridge or not, I think the chords GT3 used are what he intended and sound right, make the song build up. Some of the mixes where the chords were changed in that part, make it sound boring because it's too much like the rest of the song IMO. Also, some people changed chords over the bridge with additional parts, but still left some of the original tracks in place, so they DO clash. I listened to a couple of Anon's remixes before I ever had even listened to the original tracks more than a time or two to make sure they were all intact - but I heard the notes that clash. Some people might LIKE that, but it's definitely there.

[Gtoledo3]

I love you Lee, I thought I was going crazy! :p

[Bunny Knutson]

Good golly!!! Spacebass, do you REALLY want me to remove your mix??? It's a favorite of some people, don't you realize??? I like everything about it except the guitar solo, and that's just a matter of personal taste. I really think you made a jammin' mix, and I don't want to take it down. Look, this has been a strange week. I think the planets are all out-of-line, or something, but people are just not themselves this week. Can we just settle down and come back to this next week? These are just musical opinions, and musicians are notoriously sensitive (especially me!), so some feelings are bound to be hurt in a judgemental situation like this. Let's try to take the criticism with a grain of salt. If it's criticism that you can use to improve your mixing ability, then great; but, if it's criticism that you find just hurtful and not constructive, let's try to look the other way, and just agree to disagree, without any personal insults. Cool? Thank you everyone! :)

[Gtoledo3]

I think people need to take the opinions for what they are, OPINIONS. It's no big deal...music is one of the most subjective things there is.

[Salyphus]

[quote]Originally posted by Henchman: [b]well, if anybody here thinks my mix is shit or absoluteley hates some of or everything about it, please say so. I have no problem with anybody having an opinion. What I really hate is peole saying tkey like somethign, but really thinking it sucks. Personally, I find it much more helpfull when people point out what they thinks is wrong, instead of what is right.[/b][/quote]That's pretty much the way I feel as well. I know I'm new to mixing and am not under any illusions that my stuff will be as good as people who have more skills/talent/experience than me, I just tried to do the best I could. If people tell me what they think I did wrong (or right) it can only help me learn. I may not agree with every criticism but that is not a problem. I also hope we can feel free to answer criticisms or ask for clarification without seeming 'defensive'. Finally, I think we can all learn from hearing criticisms of each others' work as well as our own. So, bring it on! :thu:

[Dak Lander]

What Sal said. This was my first experience with anything of this complexity. I've never done much with synth drums & never with acoustic drums. What little mixing I've done is on my own stuff & one hell of a lot fewer tracks. Once I got the real drums in the mix & the others out, my poor little box was running at the 80% of capacity+ level. All in all, there is something I like about each mix & something I don't like about each one too. I'm still listening and making judgements. I can say that I like the different arrangements by Soundscape, Spacebass & Anon. Each had something that was different and to me, added some interest. I did the vox echo/delay on my first attempt as did others. I took it out. Didn't like it. I agree too with Sal in that I can only learn from the critiques. I promise I won't get too P.O'd. :D :eek: :mad: :rolleyes:

[Anon-a-Monster]

I like the clash great band! As for everyone elses mixes: All your mixes are belong to us. They all sucked in a most wonderful way. I guess I have to stop listening to Middle Eastern music, and any group that uses an open tuning, goodbye Joni Mitchell records... Buh Bye David Crosby and CSN, Queen... your outta here... those dissonent vocal harmonies. Zepplin, you are hunting frisbees now. I can't hear the 'rubs' that you all are talking about. I did leave a synth in on purpose for 'tension'.

[Gtoledo3]

Anon, I think I'm looking forward to you're most recent mix ;) That rockabilly thing really grows on me... I think you'd be surprised if you heard some of my other songs; I went through an "early rock and roll" phase.

[alphajerk]

well after giving the raw tracks a go... there is a LOT of shit in this song that needs to be taken out, put somehwere else, or fully retracked. now even the vox is getting on my nerves. just too much to do to make it a worthwhile venture. the original guitars just plain suck. the tone sucks and some of the chord changes suck. most of the synth parts are kinda weak. the bass is awful, and the filter bass isnt any better. the new drums are okay... nothing special, not tracked at all like i would do it, too damn mono. the loops are shitty at best. i can see why anon took the path he took. the synth pad intros are horrible... and what was this tracked on? the organization is just ridiculous between the tracks. intro synth on the bass/guitar tracks? good thing the song was just filler. but i like henchmans mix a lot, i dig anon's interpretations, but spacebasses is the fav... new bass, guitars, kick ass solo... reorganized drums.

[Franknputer]

Dang - bitch, bitch, bitch... :rolleyes: Look, for better or worse this is what we had to work with. I'm sure a lot of factors went into everyone's decisions - and who are we to question those decisions? The execution is one thing, that's what we all agreed to take apart. But let's not get our panties in a wad over this - it ain't like it cost anybody money, or their reputation, or a gig. I made my choices and I don't apologize for them. I didn't use a lot of stuff, because I wanted to take a particular tack & they didn't fit. I also had limited time to deal with it - I spent the first few sessions trying to get an idea of what was on what track (I asked for a rundown at the beginning of this, but none was given) & the first thing I had to do was to decide what WASN'T getting used. (I also only had so much computer horsepower to work with.) Once that was pared down, I judged what was left. And it was judged also in the context of the project: something for fun, to stretch out a bit, and something that was not to 'please' anybody else. He's not a client, and this ain't for release - so IMO some liberties could be taken. I generally mix things real clean - what I hear is generally what you get. But I can get freaky if I want to - occasionally I have been [i]asked[/i] to do so. So I make no apologies for what I did, largely over 2 very long nights in the middle of a work week. My biggest regret is that my guitar playing is so rusty - but I think I did OK in spite of that. So take it for what it's worth - I also found things to like about everyone's mix, as well as things NOT to like. We can't agree on everything, and if we did there would be no point to this exercise at all - we'd have 25 copies of the same fucking mix if we did. Again, I say - lighten up. :idea:

[Dak Lander]

[quote]Originally posted by ChristopherKemp: [b]Dang - bitch, bitch, bitch... :rolleyes: Again, I say - lighten up. :idea: [/b][/quote]Perfectly stated.

[Lee Flier]

Ummm.... ya know, I think I'm going to have to take a break from here for awhile because the mean spiritedness that's been on display lately has just been out of control. It's pretty much gotten to where it seems like people are LOOKING to find fault with others' opinions, and automatically read everything (and respond to it) with a negative bias, when some people are actually acting in good faith and in fact have put in a lot of effort to act in good faith. This isn't the only thread or forum where that's been happening by any means, but it really is a damn shame to see something so oriented toward fun and community spirit degenerate into yet more ugly crap. If anybody actually gives a rat's ass what I think about their mix, feel free to PM or email me and I'll respond in private. And I WILL be constructive as well as honest. If anyone would like to offer their commentary on my mix, they're welcome to do so in private, too. And anybody who wants to stay in touch with me for whatever reason, can do so through email or my band's forum, where hopefully we won't be outshouted by the Jerry Springer wannabees of the world. I'd also like to thank Bunny and GT3 for making this happen, it's appreciated by many I'm sure, no matter how much of a clusterfuck some people try to make it. I'm outta here for now.

[Gtoledo3]

I feel the same way Lee. I don't want to make any comments on any mixes, b/c if i make a critical comment people think it's sour grapes; if I make a positive comment, others feel like I'm not commenting on theirs. I really love the forums, but this thing has gotten a little depressing for me. And as far as any negative comments aimed towards me go... I know where I stand as an artist and performer, but the likeliness is that YOU do not. This is something I did two years ago, in a few hours. It was my first time playing a synth or even recording in a digital system. Any criticisms are probably well founded.

[halljams]

Wow. You guyz are nuts! Since we are all giving opinions, here's mine....... Some of you should grow the fuck up! If you are too sensitive to hear what others think you never should have submitted anything. Also, you should have some respect for the fellow who generously handed over a tune to use for this EXERCISE. And that's all it is, a little bit of fun where we can compare our idea Here is my honest opinion on some of the "out there" mixes mentioned. -Spacebasse's mix falls short of sounding like a finished product. You replaced the parts but it sounds like you forgot to mix it. i liked the guitar playing at the end but thought it did nothing for the tune. Zap i think you are talented but i thought your mix was dull and lifeless. maby some kool key parts to give some high registar info would bring it to life, i also am sensing a bit of, well, just plain talking down to people from you. Don't turn into curve on us here pal. Anon, SONICALLY (having used loops) your mixes are great, but i totally agree (and it was the first thing i noticed) about the harmonic clashes. I found a similar problem with some of the other more drastic harmonic changes in other mixes in that they either clashed, sounded wrong or did nothing and therefore did not support the vox line or create a much need resolution under a rather stagnent vox line. Hench, i liked your mix alot but thought it was too long. i was really surprised when i heard it because you and i took a very similar approach in terms of focusing on the arrangment and cleaning up what was there. I'm going to Mexico for 2 weeks tomorrow. When i get back you kids better be getting along. ;)

[Rim]

Bunny, I suggest you remove the link to spacebass' mix as requested. So, are we still going to receive the mixes on CD to comment on? I would still like to continue with the initial intent of this project. Anyone else? - Rim

[Bunny Knutson]

[quote]Originally posted by Rim: [b]Bunny, I suggest you remove the link to spacebass' mix as requested.[/b][/quote]What link? Who is Spacebass? :D [quote]Originally posted by Rim: [b]So, are we still going to receive the mixes on CD to comment on? I would still like to continue with the initial intent of this project. Anyone else?[/b][/quote]Yes, this will most definitely still happen in February! I'm still receiving CDs in the mail. I'll keep you all posted. :thu:

[Master Zap]

[quote]Zap i think you are talented but i thought your mix was dull and lifeless. maby some kool key parts to give some high registar info would bring it to life,[/quote]Actually I was pretty determined not to *add* anything. Just "mix" in the sense "use what's there and do what I can with it". Also note the very short time I put into it. I have actually tinkered with an updated mix, but, alas, I just got the latest stomach flu and am having a great time at the john ;) [quote] i also am sensing a bit of, well, just plain talking down to people from you. Don't turn into curve on us here pal. [/quote]Hmm, I get that a lot. I'm a very easy going guy. I use some humor and sarcasm too. Take what I say in a nudge-wink kinda way and you'll be home free ;) /Z

[Henchman]

[quote]Originally posted by halljams: [b] Hench, i liked your mix alot but thought it was too long. i was really surprised when i heard it because you and i took a very similar approach in terms of focusing on the arrangment and cleaning up what was there. ;) [/b][/quote]That's it!!! How dare you. I'm losing it now... Pull my mix dammit!!! :D :D :D :D :D :D

[Anderton]

<> And I like mine the best, and Zap likes his the best, and everyone probably likes theirs the best. Why? Because each of us made the mix WE wanted to hear. This doesn't mean I didn't like the other mixes, in fact, they ALL have some element that's at the very least thought-provoking. I think everyone needs a quick story. I've mentioned this before so if it's a rerun, move on... I did a gig in Philadelphia once where two reviews came out the next morning of the same concert (this was back in the days when cities often had more than one newspaper). One was highly negative, the other highly positive. But the clicher is that what was negative to one was positive to the other. For example... Negative review: "The band cared nothing for their audience, and had no interaction other than saying 'We're the Mandrake Memorial' when they started." Positive review: "The band didn't do any of that 'Hello Philadelphia' crap, they got down to the business of playing music and didn't condescend to the audience." Negative review: "The group played in one long, continuous set, with no breaks between songs. Couldn't they have given us a bit of breather?" Positive review: "Best of all, the music never stopped...it was a continuous, smooth flow that transported the audience on a journey." Those weren't the exact quotes, but they're close enough...it was almost comical how the reviews seized on the SAME THINGS but one painted them as positive, the other negative. Since that day, I really haven't cared what people said about my music. You love it? GREAT! That's why I make it, to tickle your fancy. You hate it? Fine, there are 40,000,000 other musicians out there and surely you'll find one you like. Negative review of my mix: "The drums sound like they were recorded in a garage, the guitars are way too loud in some places, none of the timing was tightened up, and what's with those stupid synchronized echoes that step on the vocals? Overall, it's the kind of confusing, muddy mix I thought we had left behind in the 60s." Positive review of my mix: "In a world of slick, corporate music, the mix comes crashing out of the speakers like an updated version of 'Louie Louie.' The drums sound trashier than the first Elvis Costello album, and the vocals have the raunch of 60s-era Dylan. Someone had a good time doing this mix, and I had a good time listening to it!" Is GT3's song the greatest in the history of time? No. Was it cool to let us mix it? YES. Did I have a great time mixing it? DOUBLE YES. Look, this was an exercise in mixing. The source tracks are what they are. I like the song. That's good enough for me. You learn a lot more trying to mix a song that was tossed off casually in a few hours and needs work than with a song that just mixes itself. Yes, my mix is MY favorite. Doesn't mean it's the best mix, though. There can be no best mix because everyone's taste is different. Furthermore, my mix might be my favorite on Tuesday, Zap's on Thursday, and D. Gauss when I'm driving in the car. If I had a dollar for every positive review I've gotten, I could retire. But if I had to pay a dollar for every negative one, I'd be back to square one . Same person, same music -- DIFFERENT LISTENER. Okay?

[KenElevenShadows]

Wow! What happened here? You can cut the air with a knife in here... Um. Anyway, my mix is definitely not my favorite! It's not one of the better mixes I've done. Still haven't had a chance to listen to all of them, but I do like all the various approaches to the same song. I hope we can get back to constructive, honest opinions and be okay with that.