Beato - Music is Too Easy to Make

[ElmerJFudd]

[Chummy]

I don't always agree with Beato on his views on music etc. But he's right when he says that due to technology and recent cultural trends we "lost" something - in how we compose, play and consume music. A wiser man than I once said that the benefits of a new technology (think internet, cars, A.I, telephone) are immediately obvious but you only start noticing the drawbacks over time.

 

 

[J.F.N.]

On 6/26/2024 at 10:23 PM, AROIOS said:

I'm just amazed that more than two dozen posts in, the usual suspects of political correctness policing still haven't jumped on the title of this video.
 

Let me save them the hassle of typing: "Music Is Getting Worse? According to whom? Boomers and GenXes like this 60 yr old know-it-all?" 😃

 

Yup, old man yelling at clouds...

 

[David Emm]

1 hour ago, Chummy said:

I don't always agree with Beato on his views on music etc. But he's right when he says that due to technology and recent cultural trends we "lost" something - in how we compose, play and consume music. A wiser man than I once said that the benefits of a new technology (think internet, cars, A.I, telephone) are immediately obvious but you only start noticing the drawbacks over time.

 

I'll bet a few people were happy they listened to Beato's great-ancestor and beat sandals out of Pompeii before it went KABOOM. Its inevitable that a large contingent will always make the lowest-common-denominator use of any new technology. Zappa pointed out that the first use to which people put personal video cameras was to take pictures of their children and of themselves f*cking. I always appreciate parts of any advancement, but I don't take a starry-eyed view overall.

 

 "Democracy is the proposition that the people deserve to get what they want.

  I agree.
  They deserve to get it good and hard."
         ~ Legendary journalist H. L. Mencken

[AROIOS]

1 hour ago, Chummy said:

...A wiser man than I once said that the benefits of a new technology (think internet, cars, A.I, telephone) are immediately obvious but you only start noticing the drawbacks over time...

Good point. Jonathan Haidt has been warning about the impact of smartphones and apps on kids' neural circuitry for a while.

[J.F.N.]

8 minutes ago, David Emm said:

 

I'll bet a few people were happy they listened to Beato's great-ancestor and beat sandals out of Pompeii before it went KABOOM. Its inevitable that a large contingent will always make the lowest-common-denominator use of any new technology. Zappa pointed out that the first use to which people put personal video cameras was to take pictures of their children and of themselves f*cking. I always appreciate parts of any advancement, but I don't take a starry-eyed view overall.

 

 "Democracy is the proposition that the people deserve to get what they want.

  I agree.
  They deserve to get it good and hard."
         ~ Legendary journalist H. L. Mencken

 

Or as someone said; God gave the people their free will, and the Devil gave them the choice (or something in that line).

 

There is always a choice, and Zappa made a very good point indeed!

[CrossRhodes]

Does Beato live in the sticks and just rip bong hits and wank off to Steely Dan records when he’s not YouTubing? Older people telling younger people their music sucks is such a tired cliche. There are so many great bands and musicians on the scene these days that it was quite frankly embarrassing to watch him stooping to this level just to get those click dollas.

[ElmerJFudd]

2 hours ago, David Emm said:

 

I'll bet a few people were happy they listened to Beato's great-ancestor and beat sandals out of Pompeii before it went KABOOM. Its inevitable that a large contingent will always make the lowest-common-denominator use of any new technology. Zappa pointed out that the first use to which people put personal video cameras was to take pictures of their children and of themselves f*cking. I always appreciate parts of any advancement, but I don't take a starry-eyed view overall.

 

 "Democracy is the proposition that the people deserve to get what they want.

  I agree.
  They deserve to get it good and hard."
         ~ Legendary journalist H. L. Mencken

AI Hit - Doo Doo With The Lid Down

[Leroy C]

39 minutes ago, CrossRhodes said:

Does Beato live in the sticks and just rip bong hits and wank off to Steely Dan records when he’s not YouTubing? Older people telling younger people their music sucks is such a tired cliche. There are so many great bands and musicians on the scene these days that it was quite frankly embarrassing to watch him stooping to this level just to get those click dollas.

Yeah, I do get tired of us old people talking like there's no good music coming out today.  There's tons of it; you just have to go looking for it.

[Anderton]

It's not just technology. Among other things, it's an understanding by those who want to make money from music on how the human brain operates, and how to convince it to like something.

 

There's an interesting video on this topic that I referenced in a thread in my forum. Y'all know most of what's in the beginning, but thme video picks up steam as it goes along. I usually bail on most videos after a few minutes, but I'm glad I stuck this one out.  It goes deeper than "kids, get off my lawn." It's more like "kids, now you know why you think astroturf is lawn."

[ElmerJFudd]

28 minutes ago, Leroy C said:

Yeah, I do get tired of us old people talking like there's no good music coming out today.  There's tons of it; you just have to go looking for it.

There’s trash (and of course someone’s trash is another’s treasure) in every era.  But today there is in fact just more readily available music than ever before.  So, by the numbers, there’s going to be more trash than ever before (more stuff you like as well).  Yes, agreed, you have to sift through the lot to find what you like.   
 

There simply aren’t enough days in our short lives to hear everything that’s in digital format.  I could spend most of my time listening to material recorded before I was born.  Or listen to tried and true gems that were released earlier in my lifetime.  But that gets to be a bore.  I like to hear newer artists as well and am well pleased to find something that thrills.  

[Anderton]

2 hours ago, ElmerJFudd said:

But today there is in fact just more readily available music than ever before.  So, by the numbers, there’s going to be more trash than ever before (more stuff you like as well).  Yes, agreed, you have to sift through the lot to find what you like.

 

...Bingo. And the problem is when you have 100,000,000+ songs to sift through, needles in a haystick look easy to find.

[Leroy C]

6 hours ago, Anderton said:

 

...Bingo. And the problem is when you have 100,000,000+ songs to sift through, needles in a haystick look easy to find.

Yep.  That's where I'm pretty active about asking friends for recommendations, reading album reviews in genres I like, etc.

[ABECK]

9 hours ago, ElmerJFudd said:

There’s trash (and of course someone’s trash is another’s treasure) in every era.  But today there is in fact just more readily available music than ever before.  So, by the numbers, there’s going to be more trash than ever before (more stuff you like as well).  Yes, agreed, you have to sift through the lot to find what you like.   
 

There simply aren’t enough days in our short lives to hear everything that’s in digital format.  I could spend most of my time listening to material recorded before I was born.  Or listen to tried and true gems that were released earlier in my lifetime.  But that gets to be a bore.  I like to hear newer artists as well and am well pleased to find something that thrills.  

I "discover" a few new artists (to me) every year that give me hope.  The talent is out there and always will be.  (E.G.  Last year I really got into this dude Brothertiger.)  There is just a LOT of content (god I hate that term) out there they have to compete with.  I don't think AI will help with that equation.

 

 

[J.F.N.]

10 minutes ago, ABECK said:

I "discover" a few new artists (to me) every year that give me hope.  The talent is out there and always will be.  (E.G.  Last year I really got into this dude Brothertiger.)  There is just a LOT of content (god I hate that term) out there they have to compete with.  I don't think AI will help with that equation.

 

 

 

It comes with the system of today, instead of creating albums aiming at longterm durability, today it's the complete opposite, spam the platforms with 1-2 tracks as often as it is possible in order to build a continuous streaming engagement... Result, well, go figure..

 

[ProfD]

17 hours ago, Leroy C said:

Yeah, I do get tired of us old people talking like there's no good music coming out today.  There's tons of it; you just have to go looking for it.

 

16 hours ago, ElmerJFudd said:

There’s trash (and of course someone’s trash is another’s treasure) in every era.  But today there is in fact just more readily available music than ever before.  So, by the numbers, there’s going to be more trash than ever before (more stuff you like as well).  Yes, agreed, you have to sift through the lot to find what you like.

That is the lift. 

 

*New* music that might appeal to an older generation of listeners will be found either 1) on a satellite radio station or 2) internet search.

 

Most commercially released *new* music is pushed to consumers between 12-35 years of age i.e. the folks who actually buy downloads and concert tickets. 

 

Otherwise, *new* music is not necessarily being made for the generation of folks with responsibilities i.e. mortgages, lawns, grandkids, balding or receding hair, beer bellies, etc.🤣😎

[re Pete]

They still play music on elevators? 

[J.F.N.]

12 minutes ago, re Pete said:

They still play music on elevators? 

 

Now that sounds like a great context for AI generated content, hmm sorry, Music, it could even be instant, generated on the fly based on the time of the day, weather, and other promptable parameters!

 

[Mr -G-]

12 hours ago, ElmerJFudd said:

There simply aren’t enough days in our short lives to hear everything that’s in digital format.

Play at x2 speed?

[ProfD]

51 minutes ago, Mr -G- said:

Play at x2 speed?

Getting through 100 million songs will require a faster mode of travel.😎

[CrossRhodes]

4 hours ago, ProfD said:

Otherwise, *new* music is not necessarily being made for the generation of folks with responsibilities i.e. mortgages, lawns, grandkids, balding or receding hair, beer bellies, etc.🤣😎

 

I think some people have very narrow tastes in music and some people's tastes seem to freeze at a certain point in their lives giving them the false impression that there is no more "good" music. Between recommendations from friends, forums, streaming aps, the instagram algorithm and great YouTube channels like Tiny Desk and KEXP I don't have any trouble discovering great music and great musicians. Everyone's opinion about what "great" music is will vary but if you're open minded and proactive, I don't think it's very hard to discover new or new to you music.

[J.F.N.]

1 hour ago, CrossRhodes said:

 

I think some people have very narrow tastes in music and some people's tastes seem to freeze at a certain point in their lives giving them the false impression that there is no more "good" music. Between recommendations from friends, forums, streaming aps, the instagram algorithm and great YouTube channels like Tiny Desk and KEXP I don't have any trouble discovering great music and great musicians. Everyone's opinion about what "great" music is will vary but if you're open minded and proactive, I don't think it's very hard to discover new or new to you music.

 

As touched before, the subject of experiencing music from one's earlier stages of life is cemented into the self and based on emotional memories and history of importance for one's perception of self, hence the adamant attitude regarding what then is "good music".

[CrossRhodes]

10 minutes ago, J.F.N. said:

 

As touched before, the subject of experiencing music from one's earlier stages of life is cemented into the self and based on emotional memories and history of importance for one's perception of self, hence the adamant attitude regarding what then is "good music".

That may be true for some but that is a very limited way to experience all that life has to offer. I think the human brain and spirit can evolve throughout one’s lifetime if one is curious, open minded and proactive about seeking out new experiences. My grandfather was a musician and played until he passed in his 90’s. Jazz was his passion but he remained open and curious about all kinds of contemporary music throughout his entire lifetime. I saw how this kept him young at heart and engaged with life in ways that I didn’t see with other people his age who lived solely in the past. He was and still is a great inspiration to me on how to make the most of the time we have on this planet.

[Tusker]

On 6/26/2024 at 8:26 PM, Reezekeys said:

 

It may sound like whining to you, but to me he's just pointing out the obvious – this "democratization" also brought forth a lot of music makers who would otherwise not have the means to produce and release their creations.

 

That was my take away also. I completely agree with his observations: there is homogenization, there is more quantity and often less quality, music has become background, not foreground. But this is completely obvious. 

 

Rick's observations come directly from his experience and perhaps that's why his conclusions are a bit direct. Let's stand back a bit using two big-picture lenses: Economics and History.

 

Rick describes the economics of oversupply at the point of consumption, but there is a little bit more than that. Value migrates to markets (not producers) over time. The middle man (the market) gets a bigger and bigger piece of the value chain. This is how Starbucks is profitable when the coffee farmer barely survives. Or a brand of bananas is profitable when the banana farmer barely survives. It used to be the record companies which were the middle men, but with digitization it is the streaming platforms. It's an exceptional artist who can create his or her own market, or secure his or her own digital rights.

 

History teaches us that when the middle-manning occurs at a point of a gun, we call it colonialism. Hugely expensive spices dropped in cost after Europe colonized the spice growing centers of the world. Similarly the era we live in today could be called digital colonization. Sign up to digitize but know that the commoditization of your work will follow. 

 

Is there a path out for creators? Well who am I to say?

 

If there was a path out, it would be in thinking about what music really does for us humans. Music brings people together, it creates a community experience, it allows people to share ineffable emotions. In that sense it is not a product but is a connector of people and a container of meaning. What if today's commoditized music is simply music that doesn't connect people? What if today's commoditized music is simply music that is not adequately meaningful?

 

What if the Grateful Dead were onto something? Their music seemed to be a way to connect people, and carry their meanings. I am no deadhead. Still I wonder if their unusual business model might teach us something about how to create value in music. Hmm ....

[ProfD]

2 hours ago, CrossRhodes said:

I think some people have very narrow tastes in music and some people's tastes seem to freeze at a certain point in their lives....but if you're open minded and proactive, I don't think it's very hard to discover new or new to you music.

Right.  I preach this quite a bit in the midst of my long-winded, er, typed posts. 😁

 

Being MOM (Musically Open Minded) is the best cure for those "music has gotten worse" blues.😎

[J.F.N.]

2 hours ago, CrossRhodes said:

That may be true for some but that is a very limited way to experience all that life has to offer. I think the human brain and spirit can evolve throughout one’s lifetime if one is curious, open minded and proactive about seeking out new experiences. My grandfather was a musician and played until he passed in his 90’s. Jazz was his passion but he remained open and curious about all kinds of contemporary music throughout his entire lifetime. I saw how this kept him young at heart and engaged with life in ways that I didn’t see with other people his age who lived solely in the past. He was and still is a great inspiration to me on how to make the most of the time we have on this planet.

 

I'm sure there will always be exceptions, human psychology is more complex than just a bunch of studies on certain populations, still, there's definitely something to it.

 

https://neurosciencenews.com/music-youth-17765/

 

"We found consistent evidence for a reminiscence bump for two aspects of the songs used here: ratings of the degree to which the songs evoke autobiographical memories, and familiarity ratings for the songs themselves. Reminiscence bumps for these two dependent variables were evidenced in all four age groups. The results for autobiographical salience ratings of the songs were broadly aligned with general theoretical conceptions of a reminiscence bump that occurs between ages 10 to 30 years"

 

Source:

https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/10.1177/2059204320965058

[David Emm]

19 hours ago, ElmerJFudd said:

AI Hit - Doo Doo With The Lid Down

 

I wonder which political party will have a ticked-off employee play that as the opener for their national convention? 😈

[ElmerJFudd]

30 minutes ago, David Emm said:

 

I wonder which political party will have a ticked-off employee play that as the opener for their national convention? 😈

Will the AI send a letter to stop using it at their events?  😉

[J.F.N.]

10 minutes ago, ElmerJFudd said:

Will the AI send a letter to stop using it at their events?  😉

 

The major labels united will sue the party for not using a tune written by a human...

[ElmerJFudd]

1 minute ago, J.F.N. said:

 

The major labels united will sue the party for not using a tune written by a human...

For training it on the recordings they bought the rights for, without a doubt! 😊