Great Beato Interview on FOH Sound

[Docbop]

So one of those Beato things I thought I'd listen to a little bit and move on this was a great interview with Dave Natale who has been doing FOH sound for the  best of the best for 45 years.   A lot of great bits on reality of live audio all through the interview he is very old school in his approach.  They touch on some topics that get batted around here.   The very end of the interview the last bit they hit very hot button topic around here so some may just want to skip to end and catch that then start flaming away on your computer keyboards.   

 

 

[Adan]

I'm not going to watch the video, but the subject matter reminds me of a funny (to me) memory of sitting at a bar in San Francisco and listening to a conversation between two guys next to me, one of whom had been the FOH guy at Great American Music Hall for something like 25 years. This conversation went on in the same vein for about 30 minutes, with FOH guy issuing statements with a weary insouciance like "yeah, I saw Bonnie Raitt play with Muddy Waters," and his friend responding with genuine awe "wow, that's amazing!" then "yeah, I saw Stevie Ray Vaughn play with Buddy Guy," then "Dude, that must have been incredible!" The exchange went on like this ad infinitum. It was all I could do not to interrupt to ask Mr. Awestruck, um, you realize this is just his job, right?

 

I have a friend who for decades has been a cameraman for the Sunday network show Meet the Press. I asked him once "it must be great seeing these political movers and shakers every week?" His response was, "I don't know, I'm too focused on my job to pay attention to what they're saying."

[Docbop]

8 hours ago, Adan said:

I'm not going to watch the video, but the subject matter reminds me of a funny (to me) memory of sitting at a bar in San Francisco and listening to a conversation between two guys next to me, one of whom had been the FOH guy at Great American Music Hall for something like 25 years. This conversation went on in the same vein for about 30 minutes, with FOH guy issuing statements with a weary insouciance like "yeah, I saw Bonnie Raitt play with Muddy Waters," and his friend responding with genuine awe "wow, that's amazing!" then "yeah, I saw Stevie Ray Vaughn play with Buddy Guy," then "Dude, that must have been incredible!" The exchange went on like this ad infinitum. It was all I could do not to interrupt to ask Mr. Awestruck, um, you realize this is just his job, right?

 

I have a friend who for decades has been a cameraman for the Sunday network show Meet the Press. I asked him once "it must be great seeing these political movers and shakers every week?" His response was, "I don't know, I'm too focused on my job to pay attention to what they're saying."

 

I know exactly what you're talking about I lived in my early days of the music biz.   I talk about working a Yes tour and a lot of what this guy said about Clair Brother and the layered PA setup and the S4 cabinets I real familiar with because the Yes tour was a package of Yes, open act, lights, and sound and Clair Brothers was the sound company.  But for me I talk about tour with Yes because it a name most rock fans are familiar with, but for me it was a gig.    I wasn't doing much one of Yes's manager I had worked for with another act called me and said we lost a crew member can you leave town in three days on a six week tour?  Sure  i wasn't a big Yes fan I liked some of Fragile album and that was it, for me it was the biggest tour I had done and wanted the experience.    From my other jobs in recording studio,  management company,  music store, and so on I worked or met, partied with a lot of big name celebrities. I always looked as it as luck of the draw I was not going looking for work to be around <fill in the blank>.  I think I just early on figured out how to hang out with celebrities so we got along in both working situations and casual.    I think growing up in L.A. a big entertainment town music, film, TV and radio you have a lot of neighbors and friends that are in the biz too so it just normal.   

 

i did end up going to a shrink for awhile when dealing with depression over not achieved what I wanted to be.   She told me you have to realize you've met people and done things most people only dream, be happy you've done those things.    So I've got a lot of stories to tell and that makes people happy to hear some inside dirt.    

 

[ProfD]

8 hours ago, Adan said:

It was all I could do not to interrupt to ask Mr. Awestruck, um, you realize this is just his job, right?

 

I have a friend who for decades has been a cameraman for the Sunday network show Meet the Press. I asked him once "it must be great seeing these political movers and shakers every week?" His response was, "I don't know, I'm too focused on my job to pay attention to what they're saying."

 

2 hours ago, Docbop said:

I know exactly what you're talking about I lived in my early days of the music biz.   

 

From my other jobs in recording studio,  management company,  music store, and so on I worked or met, partied with a lot of big name celebrities. I always looked as it as luck of the draw I was going looking for work to be around <fill in the blank>.  

 

An important perspective to maintain is that these are just people.  They aren't too much different from anybody else. 

 

Similar to value attached to things, celebrities are created. 

 

In the same vein, celebrities either fall from grace or get torn down or forgotten by people as easily as they are propped up. 

 

IOW, that man or woman who has been catapulted into fame/celebrity is the same person who has to eat, sleep, sh8t and pee  just like you and me.🤣😎

[miden]

haha, and now all the anecdotes will flow

 

The only thing I'd mention was his comment on MONO/Stereo at the end and tbh if I was ever playing in bigger venues than I am now (and running stereo) there'd be a FOH person, so up to them to mix it however....until then I am happy playing to 50-250 folks running stereo...with speakers placed correctly and no hard panning, everyone enjoys a similar mix

 

Re the interview, I liked the interviewee, but Beato interjected way too strongly and often and it was really annoying! He should really learn from Parkinson, Frost et al who KNEW how to interview and let the subject do pretty much all the talking. Beato was too interested in his own opinion and making sure listeners knew it too!

[GovernorSilver]

I've listened to interviews with various musos over the past few months and have indeed noticed that the majority of interviewers don't have the patience to hear out the interviewee.

 

The interviewer who has the patience to allow the interviewee to answer the question without interruption is almost as rare as unicorns.  Those unicorn interviews have been a treat.

[Reezekeys]

I did not get the impression that Rick was interjecting too much, but whatever...

 

As far as the mono vs stereo snippet at the end, its sounded like Dave was referring to entire instruments panned more to one side or the other - not really the same as a single instrument sampled in stereo (i.e., our piano libraries), whose sound suffers when summed to mono. Am I opening up the usual can 'o worms now? 🙂  Tell ya what - get me on that Stones tour and I will find the best mono piano sample library money can buy!

[Stokely]

I was scrolling through, didn't find the "hot button" topic but glad you all pointed it out   

I try to go stereo when I can, which is pretty much only when we use our own PA.  100% of the other PAs we have used in the past 12 years, whether for street fests or at clubs, are mono.   I know some have different experiences.

My rule is:  I'll go stereo if I can both send FOH real stereo (aka not two feeds panned center, that is mono) and be able to monitor in stereo.   If either of those things are not true, I go mono to keep things consistent.  The reality is that despite best intentions patches can change volume from song to song (one factor being the rest of the band's volume) and from mono to stereo.  At least if I'm monitoring what FOH is hearing, I have a good chance to hear something that pops out or falls under relative to other patches or the rest of the band.   I try my very  best to be consistent, then the sound person has less to do and is less likely to slap a @#$% limiter on my keys.

And as mentioned, I don't go too crazy with stereo though I have been known at certain venues to have occasional fun with tremolo or the autopan on the Nord stage 3   

[Docbop]

29 minutes ago, ProfD said:

 

An important perspective to maintain is that these are just people.  They aren't too much different from anybody else. 

 

Similar to value attached to things, celebrities are created. 

 

In the same vein, celebrities either fall from grace or get torn down or forgotten by people as easily as they are propped up. 

 

IOW, that man or woman who has been catapulted into fame/celebrity is the same person who has to eat, sleep, sh8t and pee  just like you and me.🤣😎

 

I noticed a typo in my original post that I left the word "not".    I always looked as it as luck of the draw I was NOT going looking for work to be around <fill in the blank>.  

 

I look back and even amazed at how I just happen across celebrities so many times.    You're right they are regular people and part of the way I think I got to be around and work with many is I treated them like regular people.  I wasn't blowing smoke up their asses and telling them how great they are I would just shoot the shit with them like I would anyone else and they appreciated that.   But I also knew the times to act like someone who worked for them without anything being said and they noticed and appreciated that too.   In general I think most the big names I met were really cool people only a couple who want to be treated like they were gods.   When I met someone like that I tended to avoid them.   One who ticks me off a bit was a now very famous girl singer who I knew in her early days in the biz and we were friends.   Then I ran into her at the concert after she was bigtime and she was there with her entourage and I just went to say hello and I'll just say that didn't go well.  Most were down to earth. 

[Reezekeys]

Doesn't the fact that Dave is mixing in stadiums have any relevance to his point about mono vs stereo? It's easy to see why he mixes to mono.

[Outkaster]

Just watched this today.

[Sean M. H.]

I actually like the pace of this interview.  What some seem to feel was Rick interjecting too much, helped keep things moving along.  There's little in the way of fluff and off-topic anecdotes here.  It's more like: "I've got this world-class subject matter expert for an hour...let me fire off the 50 questions I've always wanted to ask about the subject"...not saying that style of interview always works, but I thought it was effective here.

 

Regarding the content itself, I thought it was interesting and entertaining.  Of course, the scale of shows that the interviewee does means his perspective doesn't necessarily translate to anything I'll ever do...but a good watch nonetheless!

[jazzpiano88]

20 hours ago, Adan said:

I'm not going to watch the video

plugs ears and shouts, “Lala Lala Lala Lala”

 

I’m not going to read the rest of your comment (probably for the same knee jerk reaction)  

[Adan]

4 hours ago, jazzpiano88 said:

plugs ears and shouts, “Lala Lala Lala Lala”

 

I’m not going to read the rest of your comment (probably for the same knee jerk reaction)  

Don't take it personally (this time). I don't watch any music interviews. I'm a busy person, and in my priorities, listening to music ranks #6, posting on KC ranks #39, watching music interviews is #477. Given my time limitations, I never get past about #60.

 

Not judging anyone else's priorities. For instance, I can see why music professionals might watch these.

 

I strongly encourage you to not read my posts. You'll be happier.

[Franz Schiller]

Not knowing much about FOH sound, I found this to be utterly fascinating. I am shocked that Mr. Natale uses an ancient analog console. Shocked. I would've sworn he'd be using those crazy digital consoles with different scenes for different lighting cues, etc. But everything he says makes a ton of sense. Interesting dude.

[Stokely]

I know a bit about live sound, not much about lighting and next to nothing about other automation (tracks etc).  I'd guess none of that is controlled by whatever mixer he's using, there are likely other systems/computers involved.   

 

Not surprised at all to see an old-schooler prefer a big analog console though--I've known some vets that stick to what they are comfy with.  Especially when you have a team of acolytes/minions/eager interns to shlep it around    Being able to quickly reach for the high EQ on a vocal on channel 22 which has its own dedicated spot, vs scrolling through some ipad app, definitely appeals to a lot of people.   I've had a few "scrolling incidents" myself on digital mixer touchscreens, namely our old line 6 one....a couple times I tried to swipe to the next page and instead it "caught" on some control and I didn't even know what I'd changed.  And we fairly often have problems connecting to our dedicated router with our ipads, its one reason we went to an X32 so that in a pinch we can use the dedicated screen (vs our XR18 which didn't have one).

[Docbop]

Back when I got into digital recording for the first time around 2005 and I got a job doing post editing in a ProTools shop.   I took a ProTools class to get up to speed quick and in beginning of class we had to introduce ourselves and say what type of work we do.    We're going around the room and the one guy gives his name and says  I'm Elton John's time keeper.   That definitely turned everyone heads, what the hell Elton's time keeper.   Ends up he was the engineer that sets up the master sync system for the audio, lights, video playback, and other aspects of the show to run off.   So he was Elton time keeper.   

 

When I worked in media for that church a couple time big film shoots were done at the church with real film crews.   We had to rent sync units that the audio board, film cameras and other film gear,  our own Final Cut machines, were all connect to the master sync unit so everything could be edited later and all the pieces would be in time.  Circus de Soleil I talked to a guy who subbed in the band told me early on they had electronic music stands, basically were large monitors and the MD could be making changes to the music as the show was going on if something in the show went wrong.     This digital age is really turned live in to not so live.   As in the Beato video there used to be concerts now it's Shows and there's a big difference. 

[Polkahero]

I told all of the tips he mentioned in the interview to my bandleader who runs our PA and he said he pretty much does all of this already.  Yep, can't beat a good analog board!  We run a 32 channel APB into Martin Audio speakers, killer setup.

[cphollis]

I found this an interesting interview, mostly from a historical perspective.  Back in the day, that's how you did FOH sound, especially in larger venues.

 

Fast forwarding through decades of technological progress, and .... the tools are much better these days.  A small band can get killer live sound with only a modest investment.

 

When I was interviewing sound techs for my band project, there was no shortage of older retired guys.  Not a one of them wanted to look at a digital mixer, ethernet, RTAs, IEMs ... none of that.   They all wanted me to buy antique PA gear to run in mono.

 

Regardless of the merits of one approach or another, audiences in 2024 have come to expect clean, crisp stereo audio from a live band.