Why not just steal keys from the top octave to save weight / space?

[stoken6]

57 minutes ago, pawelsz said:

80 C-G

That one gets my vote. It shows we're all different. I was hitting that high G during "Saw Her Standing There" last night.

 

Cheers, Mike.

[miden]

1 hour ago, MathOfInsects said:

What percentage of the time would you say you are playing the lowest A on a piano/keyboard? I can't envision a playing scenario that would call for multiple forays down to that note. I'm curious how you use it.

 

Perfect for playing drop D and C basslines....it gives you the chance to play a five and six string bassline.

[ProfD]

On 6/8/2024 at 1:42 PM, cassdad said:

I’d love to be able to haul a lighter board, but am not willing to sacrifice the action (& resultant playing satisfaction).

The Nord Stage was designed with weight and sound in mind. 

 

2 hours ago, cassdad said:

MOXF8 = 31 Pounds. 

As a Rhodes player, I find it amusing that 30-50 lbs is considered too heavy and/or  unwieldy.😁

 

Several low fat, weigthed 88-note KBs available especially. No compromise or sacrifice required. Maybe a gym membership.🤣😎

[Leroy C]

3 hours ago, MathOfInsects said:

What percentage of the time would you say you are playing the lowest A on a piano/keyboard? I can't envision a playing scenario that would call for multiple forays down to that note. I'm curious how you use it.

Not the OP, but I don't hit A0 very often.  I do hit G1 on a regular basis, though.

[MathOfInsects]

1 hour ago, miden said:

 

Perfect for playing drop D and C basslines....it gives you the chance to play a five and six string bassline.

...A phenomenon that occurs what percentage of the time, when you play?

[MathOfInsects]

18 minutes ago, Leroy C said:

Not the OP, but I don't hit A0 very often.  I do hit G1 on a regular basis, though.

Sure thing, and even E1. Lower than E1 is beyond a bass's lowest string, and if I'm playing that, it's almost always for effect/because I can. Funny enough I have a song of my own that has an obligato bass part that reaches that low D, lower than my NS3C offers me, so I have to just change the part a bit when I play that song on that keyboard. 

 

But that's one moment in one song in the course of a night. I personally wouldn't give up all those high notes for that single event, and am curious who requires those notes often enough to have a keyboard geared toward it. What is the playing context that makes notes lower than the bass would play, a crucial part of a rig? Honest curiosity.

 

[Al Quinn]

Piano De Voyage has a 73-key option that's C-C but the only version available now is the Model A which is not a weighted action. They've been talking about a Model B with weighted action for quite sometime but it's not released yet. It seems they're shooting for a midi controller with some not-so-good internal sounds.

 

https://shop.pianodevoyage.com/en/keyboards/34-piano-de-voyage-73-keys-model-a.html

 

[AnotherScott]

3 hours ago, MathOfInsects said:

What is the playing context that makes notes lower than the bass would play, a crucial part of a rig? Honest curiosity.

 

Possibly if you're playing LH bass, and you're covering music that was either played with a 5-string bass, or drop-tuned. Or your band occasionally (or routinely) drops songs a half or whole step to accommodate a singer. If you can't hit the low D or whatever on your bass line, you might have to play in E and resort to the dreaded transpose button. 😉 

[MathOfInsects]

5 minutes ago, AnotherScott said:

 

Possibly if you're playing LH bass, and you're covering music that was either played with a 5-string bass, or drop-tuned. Or your band occasionally (or routinelsy) drops songs a half or whole step to accommodate a singer. If you can't hit the low D or whatever on your bass line, you might have to play in E and resort to the dreaded transpose button. 😉 

Sure, I understand the individual circumstances that might make those notes beneficial or necessary. I use them too. 

 

But you're describing something very, very specific. And even then, OP seems to be talking about solo piano gigs. 

 

What percentage of songs on a solo piano gig would require matching the lowest note on a five-string bass, in the correct octave? 

 

 

 

 

[miden]

4 hours ago, MathOfInsects said:

...A phenomenon that occurs what percentage of the time, when you play?

 

Quite a bit as I play the bass (on keys) and keys in the bands I am in

[TommyRude]

In terms of weight, bass keys are heavier 

[cassdad]

19 hours ago, MathOfInsects said:

Sure thing, and even E1. Lower than E1 is beyond a bass's lowest string, and if I'm playing that, it's almost always for effect/because I can. Funny enough I have a song of my own that has an obligato bass part that reaches that low D, lower than my NS3C offers me, so I have to just change the part a bit when I play that song on that keyboard. 

 

But that's one moment in one song in the course of a night. I personally wouldn't give up all those high notes for that single event, and am curious who requires those notes often enough to have a keyboard geared toward it. What is the playing context that makes notes lower than the bass would play, a crucial part of a rig? Honest curiosity.

 

Solo playing. and transposing down.

[MathOfInsects]

17 hours ago, miden said:

 

Quite a bit as I play the bass (on keys) and keys in the bands I am in

Fair enough, but I still find myself curious what percentage of that bass playing would require playing on the B string of that five string bass, and having those notes be in that exact octave. Even the bass players I know who use the five string, tend to only to use that lowest string for occasional effect. Are you playing a bunch of songs where the notes are concentrated between the B and E flat underneath that first E?

[miden]

43 minutes ago, MathOfInsects said:

Fair enough, but I still find myself curious what percentage of that bass playing would require playing on the B string of that five string base, and having those notes be in that exact octave. Even the bass players I know who use the five string, tend to only to use that lowest string for occasional effect. Are you playing a bunch of songs where the notes are concentrated between the B and E flat underneath that first E?

 

1-5 progression where the band prefers the bass goes to 5 below the E, rather than up as it would be on a 4 string. You also get the same advantage in F Gb,G and Ab.

No real need to use a drop tune 5 string to A, but having the Bb and the A available does become useful, in certain types of songs....albeit used sparingly

[Ibarch]

I'm wondering how many songs require both the very bottom octave and the very octave at the same time. 

 

If it is one or the other, then transpose up or down an octave as appropriate. It is absolutely possible to switch during the same song if needed. 

 

I suspect that this would cover 95%+ of the time, for non classical works. 

[AnotherScott]

52 minutes ago, Ibarch said:

I'm wondering how many songs require both the very bottom octave and the very octave at the same time. 

 

If it is one or the other, then transpose up or down an octave as appropriate. It is absolutely possible to switch during the same song if needed. 

 

True, though that doesn't really cover the LH bass issues.

 

If you're splitting the board for LH bass, and you must have a few notes below the E, you're going to have to play your bass line an octave higher, therefore probably move the split point an octave higher, meaning you'll have an octave less for your other sound. And actually, at that point, the 73 key board has little advantage over a 61, giving you only 4 more notes for your RH sound. But unless you're in a band that tunes everything down, presumably that wouldn't be the situation for the whole gig. Or, you rely on tha transpose button.

[CEB]

Wasn’t it Nord that started there Electro 73 action on F,  channeling there inner Hohner d6?

 

For Skyrim.  

[miden]

35 minutes ago, CEB said:

Wasn’t it Nord that started there Electro 73 action on F,  channeling there inner Hohner d6?

 

For Skyrim.  

 

Yep, never understood that either haha!

[TommyRude]

hey why all this talk about reducing the number of keys?  Check with Nathanael, who - if my math is correct - ADDED TWENTY-FOUR keys to his board!

[AnotherScott]

4 hours ago, miden said:

 

Yep, never understood that either haha!

 

At the time, Fatar did not make a low E key with a solid left edge. (You would think a top C would work, but it doesn't line up right.) Some people modified the old Nords (and similar Hammonds) to have a low E (the underlying contact for it was still in the guts of the board). It worked, but looked goofy, as there was a "hole" where the missing Eb would have gone. The best you could do is fill it with some kind of fixed spacer.

[brenner13]

I TOTALLY agree with OP. Count me as one that would prefer C - C 73‘s over the standard E-G 76’er…for piano. I love that low D and much below that loses musicality for me. Transposing 76 keys down an octave give me a bunch of unusable low notes and sacrifices some of the top end I like to use. 
 

Roland briefly had that 64-key RD that had an A at the bottom, but only 64 Keys cut off the top end that I like to use.

[AnotherScott]

The VAX77 bottom note was an E, and you could use a footswitch to octave shift the board up and down on the fly, that was a cool idea. CME UF70 also started on A.

 

There have been some 73-key boards that are C-to-C, but no hammer actions as far as I can remember. Mostly Korg... M3, M50, Krome, Nautilus. Also Numa Organ/Organ 2 (which could function as 73- key controllers, even though only 61 keys triggered its internal sound).

[Al Quinn]

On 6/8/2024 at 1:42 PM, cassdad said:

I really wish I could have a lighter weight (and smaller) board that only eliminated the top octave (which I rarely use)!

 

Minetti modifies the range of Yamaha and Casio digital pianos. They have a 76-key Yamaha P-115 were they chopped off the top octave. Perhaps that will fit your need. 

 

https://www.minetticustomkeyboards.com/gallery.html

 

[stoken6]

14 hours ago, AnotherScott said:

 

At the time, Fatar did not make a low E key with a solid left edge. (You would think a top C would work, but it doesn't line up right.) Some people modified the old Nords (and similar Hammonds) to have a low E (the underlying contact for it was still in the guts of the board). It worked, but looked goofy, as there was a "hole" where the missing Eb would have gone. The best you could do is fill it with some kind of fixed spacer.

That's right, I remember! Urban legend is that the popularity of Nords then prompted Fatar to get with the low-E program[me].

 

Cheers, Mike.

[CEB]

I thought that Nord , who I think provided some great Clav sounds,  just wanted to be like a real D6 and start with F. 

[AUSSIEKEYS]

14 hours ago, Al Quinn said:

 

Minetti modifies the range of Yamaha and Casio digital pianos. They have a 76-key Yamaha P-115 were they chopped off the top octave. Perhaps that will fit your need. 

 

https://www.minetticustomkeyboards.com/gallery.html

 

 

Ah.  Thats the name of the company i talked about earlier which made a 61 note Casio PX330. I didn't think they were still going. Couldnt remember their name. 

 

Edit: just saw on their website that of Sept 2022 they will not be accepting additional orders.

 

I probably read that a few years ago and thought they had finished up.  I loved their mods.

 

Weight of Casio PX330 mods

 

72 note is 20 pounds or 9.1 kg

 

61 note is 17 pounds or 7.7kg

 

My 10kg estimate of cutting mine down to a 76 noter is probably very close. Although i was going to use original end caps instead of wood so i could keep the pitch wheel

 

[Al Quinn]

9 hours ago, AUSSIEKEYS said:

Edit: just saw on their website that of Sept 2022 they will not be accepting additional orders.

I didn’t catch that important info. Thanks!

[D. Gauss]

I just attach a bunch of helium balloons to my keyboard until it effectively weighs nothing...

 

\

[Atlantic Rich]

Adding myself to the list that wants a C1-C7 hammer action.  I really like the YC73, but just wish it were C-C configured.

 

I'd be happy to trade four notes at the top for four more on the bottom.  A few songs come to mind (at least the way I play them): Someone Saved My Life Tonight, Movin' Out, and Desperado (okay, just one low D in the intro).

 

This is an interesting topic just to see other players' preferences.  Thanks.

[stoken6]

22 hours ago, Atlantic Rich said:

Desperado (okay, just one low D in the intro).

That one got you as well?

 

Cheers, Mike.