Workstation Suggestions

[abitw]

I'm looking at getting back into keyboards (studied many years as a kid and have been playing guitars/drums since) and am looking at various workstations including the Fantom 6/7, the Roland VR-09-B/VR-730 and a few from Yamaha and Korg.  Am interested in something that is 61 to 73 keys that are medium to full weighted/adjustable feel/resistance.  Something that is easy to learn/not overly complicated, sufficent memory to handle downloadable sounds and patches, that provides decent/better piano, organ, and synthesizer variety of sounds, layering, metronome, drum and bass tracks, and is reasonable light for portability.  Looking to buy used so between $900 and $1500.    Thoughts and/or recommendations appreciated.

[CyberGene]

18 minutes ago, abitw said:

Something that is easy to learn/not overly complicated

This is a personal thing and you will get varying opinions but to me personally all workstations are overly complicated. I’m a software engineer, so it’s odd that I have difficulties with them, but I still find the workstations difficult to use, at least compared to a computer with a DAW. 

[AnotherScott]

While workstations can be complicated, I think also that's not even what the OP is necessarily looking for, even though that's the word he used. I mean, he listed Roland VR09/VR730 as some of the boards he is considering, which are about as far from "workstation" as keyboards get. 🙂

 

That said, a board that meets every listed requirement probably doesn't exist, so it will come down to prioritizing.

[TJ Cornish]

Just now, AnotherScott said:

That said, a board that meets every listed requirement probably doesn't exist, so it will come down to prioritizing.

Based on what people seem to want around here, the perfect board probably CAN’T exist. 

 

People have demanded infinite polyphony, infinite effects, 88 keys, 76 keys, 73 keys, “great keyboard action”/fully-weighted/synth, long throw, short throw, waterfall, internal power supply, external power supply; everything is too expensive, every manufacturer is stupid, and every keyboard is too heavy, until it “starts feeling plastic-y”.  lol. We are a hard to please bunch.

[ProfD]

1 hour ago, abitw said:

I'm looking at getting back into keyboards...and am looking at various workstations including the Fantom 6/7

As Scott mentioned above, some adjustments in expectations have to be made.  

 

The Roland Juno DS is a step down from the Fantom but IMO, it is a great workstation to learn and grow. 

 

As skills progress and KBs and/or software are accumulated, the Juno DS would still have a place at the proverbial table.  IOW, it won't go out of style.

 

The best news is that a brand new Roland Juno DS can be bought within the budget.😎

[RABid]

Gonna have to give up a few things on that list. The cheapest used Fantom 6 on Reverb is $2150. It does not have weighted keys, but the thing is HEAVY for the size.

 

[J.F.N.]

I am totally biased, but I was in your situation 2-3 years ago, and ended up being happy owner of a Kurzweil PC3 76, if I had known better I would have tried to source the PC3K 76, which also can handle user samples, as it opens up for a quite a bit wider palette, not that the non K has a small pallet, contrary, but still.

 

I love my PC3 and the keybed is imho the perfect compromise for playing both synth, electromechanical sounds, and piano. A tad too heavy for organ, but I do that on another machine anyway, and as the PC3 is multitimbral on 16 parts it's easy to just jack in another midi board and then BAM you have two "synths".

[David Emm]

2 hours ago, TJ Cornish said:

We are a hard to please bunch.

 

Why, we are not! Take THAT, you vile jelly! (SMACK!)

 

abitw, your query is pretty broad, by necessity. If this was for an at-home board, I'd advise you differently. In truth, I think you need to just dive in at some point, because we can't advise you on every aspect. Some of them are about personal style & likes.

 

The VRs are not workstations, BTW, just inviting Swiss-Army-knife type players' instruments. Also, Kurzweils "shouldn't" be your first workstation, as they are amazingly (and often dauntingly) deep. That's just IMO, but if you want to step up later on, experience with a Fantom will make it pay off in far greater terms. Skateboard first, Iron Man suit later. The bigger Ks are above your budget anyway.    

 

I can't tell you how to define the feel of a keybed; that's become almost hellishly subjective, with too many klacky ones around. Sometimes you just learn to adapt for the sake of the pluses. As a long-time Korg hound, I recommend one of those as sporting the most sensible sequencers, among other things. Their OSs are generally very approachable. Fantoms are now in a similar category, so carefully consider that 06, for instance. Yamaha uses upside-down Venusian Greek OSs, so avoid them as your first experience. Great sound, twisted OS. 

 

Whatever you choose, RTFM first! It certainly won't make sense all at once, but a lot of things will come more easily if you dive into the terminology. You can easily play the presets, but once you figure out how to assign control pads or arm a sequencer track, you'll be coming up to speed. Since you're jumping into the deep end a bit, just take a deep breath and roll. You generally can't go wrong with the builds of Korg or Roland workstations. There's always some plastic that makes you feel wary, but I've had them hold up well. I also advise dropping a couple hundred bucks for a rolling Gator or SKB case. They're ATA rated and will protect your gear from a small nuke.

[abitw]

So far, thanks for all the responses.  I realize my original post was fairly broad when it came to what I was looking for.  It's mind blowing how many different brands/models are out there.  I'm currently using an Akai MPK mini plus into Studio One v5.  So I'm looking for something that I can grow with that won't limit me as soon as I master it. 

[AnotherScott]

5 hours ago, abitw said:

something that is 61 to 73 keys that are medium to full weighted

okay, so it sounds like we're talking about prioritizing piano playing over organ playing, so looking for a hammer action or one of the more piano-friendly non-hammer actions, but not 88 keys. In current models I'd look at ones that are under $2200, (meaning there's a reasonable chance of finding it under $1500 used).

 

5 hours ago, abitw said:

sufficent memory to handle downloadable sounds and patches

I'd say ability to add more sounds should be a lower priority. It will reduce your options for something that may not matter, since you might be perfectly happy with the sounds a board already has. Plus if you have an iPhone or iPad, you can probably get more sounds from there, too.

 

5 hours ago, abitw said:

decent/better piano, organ, and synthesizer variety of sounds

Allowing for people having different definitions of "decent," a big variable here is the organ. To some people, there's no such thing as a "decent" organ board without drawbar controls. Other people are happy if the board has 1 or 2 organ presets they like. If you need real drawbar organ capabilities, that will further reduce your options.

 

5 hours ago, abitw said:

layering, metronome, drum and bass tracks

Layering, finally an easy one, almost all boards do that. Metronome... considering that's an easy thing to add separately (or get as an app on your phone), I don't think you should rule out an otherwise good choice that lacks one. Drums can get tricky. Even if a board does drums, there are big differences. For example, some boards have arranger functions that give you lots of obviously named patterns to choose from, and the ability to quickly access fills and variations, and easily change sounds while the drums are playing (i.e. if you're looking to play "live" with the drums, as opposed to putting the drums down as part of a sequence). Others are a more limited and/or complicated, without those options or where you often have to program the beats yourself.

 

So maybe that will help narrow down which things to focus on. You still may not be able to get everything you want. 😉

[Shamanzarek]

One of the lower priced keyboards that is actually called a Workstation is the Korg Nautilus. Can be found for around $1500 for the 61-key version if you do some searching.

 

Another low-priced option that calls itself a Workstation is the 76-key Casio WK-7600 which has been in production for ten years or more. Most of the big dealers sell these for $450 but might be less on Amazon. YouTube demos are fairly impressive considering the price and everything it can do.

[Mighty Motif Max]

Some of those requirements (like drum and bass tracks) are at odds with some of your other criteria. I’d say maybe look for a used Yamaha CP73 if you can live without a great organ. I’d suggest a YC73 but I’m not seeing any used listings under $2,000.

[niacin]

i think if you could stretch to an 88 your choices would open up, 73-76 with weighted or semi-weighted keys leaves few options and they’re not cheap and they don’t tick all your other boxes.

[Paul Woodward]

What ‘workstation’ features are you specifically requiring? I too was after the same and decided on a Korg Kronos 88. I then realised I didn’t need many of the ‘workstation’ features, so I got the Grandstage and connected it to my DAW. Much happier and saved a lot of money.

[Franz Schiller]

11 hours ago, Shamanzarek said:

One of the lower priced keyboards that is actually called a Workstation is the Korg Nautilus. Can be found for around $1500 for the 61-key version if you do some searching.

 

 

This sounds like the best option so far for the OP. Or a used 73 key version? They seem to go for around $1500.

[drawback]

I have a Kronos2 73 and it’s still relevant.

 

The Akai MPC Key 61 isn’t the definition of a workstation but aside from the semi-weighted keys, and your familiarity with the brand/concepts, it may be worth a look. 
 

 

[abitw]

Everyone - Thanks for all your comments and information. Been very helpful.  I think I'm narrowing my choice to either the Roland Juno-DS series or the Roland Fantom series.  One thing I like about the Juno is the lower entry price point that you can get for any of the different keyboard lengths compared to the Fantom.  For anyone who has played both, recognizing that the two models are at different price points, is there any significant benefits of getting one versus the other? 

 

Also - any recommendations for smaller studio speakers to use with the keyboard that won't break the bank?

[Mighty Motif Max]

As far as the Juno keybeds go, the 76 has a different keybed than the 61, and it's generally considered to be a better keybed in general. The 61 wouldn't be my first choice for piano work by any means. For lower priced studio monitors, I've been happy with my JBL 305p MKII's.

[abitw]

14 minutes ago, Mighty Motif Max said:

As far as the Juno keybeds go, the 76 has a different keybed than the 61, and it's generally considered to be a better keybed in general. The 61 wouldn't be my first choice for piano work by any means. For lower priced studio monitors, I've been happy with my JBL 305p MKII's.

Is the 76 a semi-weighted keybed versus a fully-weighted keybed on the 88?  Thanks for the recommendation on the JBL.  Will investigate.

[AnotherScott]

13 hours ago, Shamanzarek said:

One of the lower priced keyboards that is actually called a Workstation is the Korg Nautilus. Can be found for around $1500 for the 61-key version if you do some searching. on Amazon. YouTube demos are fairly impressive considering the price and everything it can do.

 

Nautilus might be the strongest choice here. Questionable points would be whether the 30-ish pounds is light enough, how playable the action is for piano (I haven't tried that one), and whether the drums functionality is sufficient. But certainly a strong contender.

 

18 minutes ago, abitw said:

I think I'm narrowing my choice to either the Roland Juno-DS series or the Roland Fantom series...For anyone who has played both, recognizing that the two models are at different price points, is there any significant benefits of getting one versus the other? 

 

Having owned both Juno DS61 and Fantom-07, I'd say neither action is satisfying for playing piano. As mentioned. the Juno DS76 action is different from either of those, I don't know how it compares. 

 

But to your specific question, overall, the Fantom-0 is in an entirely different league. That doesn't mean the Juno DS has no advantages over the Fantom-0... it's Fantom S/X/G derived sound set includes some nice sounds that I wish were also in the Fantom-0, and you can put more effects on a single sound (at the expense of not being able to put effects on other sounds). But the Fantom-0 is way more capable. To some of your particular concerns, it has much better organs (modeled rather than sampled, with full drawbar adjustability); it is better as a virtual analog synth (again using modeling rather than samples); it has more capable drum capabilities (including somewhat arranger-like selectable rhythms with buttons for variations and fills); it has more memory for loading additional samples. While both can split/layer up to 16 sounds, all 16 can have individual effects on the Fantom-0, only 3 on the Juno DS. And if you stick to just 8 parts, the Fantom-0 gives you fully seamless transitions from held/decaying sounds when switching from one to another. The Juno DS lets you store 128 of your own sound combinations (performances), the Fantom-0 lets you store 512 (scenes), and they are more easily selectable through the touchscreen, plus there's a "scene chain" set list function that lets you create different navigable lists of the scenes for different gigs. And so on.

 

25 minutes ago, abitw said:

Is the 76 a semi-weighted keybed versus a fully-weighted keybed on the 88? 

 

I believe the Juno DS 61 and 76 are both unweighted, though the actions are different. I think the (discontinued) FA-07 had a semi-weighted version of the action that's in the DS76. That's another Roland which might work for you... it probably has the most piano-playable action of the bunch.

 

[Doerfler]

Also - any recommendations for smaller studio speakers to use with the keyboard that won't break the bank?

 

You will get as many recommendations here as there are members willing to comment. A more defined budget would help, as speakers are squarely in the catagory of "you get what you pay for" 

[J.F.N.]

For studio monitoring, check Kali Audio, great stuff for the money, and on a very tight budget, check Presonus Eris series, as well their studio series which are one step up from Eris but still not very expensive.

[ProfD]

On 4/30/2024 at 11:24 AM, abitw said:

I think I'm narrowing my choice to either the Roland Juno-DS series or the Roland Fantom series.  One thing I like about the Juno is the lower entry price point...

 

Also - any recommendations for smaller studio speakers to use with the keyboard that won't break the bank?

 

Excellent choice in a workstation considering the number of parameters in your initial inquiry.

 

My fellow forumites have many years of experience with a gamut of gear.  Also, we are not shy about spending someone else's money either.  So, it's easy for us to recommend terminating a gnat with a sledgehammer.🤣

 

However, I believe given the conditions, a Juno DS would be the perfect package for getting back into the game without breaking the bank. 

 

As far as monitors go, head over to the closest Guitar Center and take a listen to whatever fits within your budget.😎

 

 

[D. Gauss]

On 4/30/2024 at 11:24 AM, abitw said:

any recommendations for smaller studio speakers to use with the keyboard that won't break the bank?

 

Clarify "studio speakers."  Are you mixing records on them or just want your keyboard to sound pleasant?   I deal mainly in the former, so YMMV if you want just the latter. As mentioned earlier, speaker choice is very personal and only you know.

 

Fairly Inexpensive Speakers I like:

Presonus Sceptre S8, S6  (love the S8!)

Yamaha MSP5, MSP10, NS10

JBL LSR305

 

Fairly Inexpensive Speakers i do not like:

Presonus Eris

Yamaha HS7, HS8 (hate!)

Adam A7

KRK Rokits (despise!)

[AnotherScott]

35 minutes ago, ProfD said:

Excellent choice in a workstation considering the number of parameters in your initial inquiry.

 

since you emphasized the word, I'll chime in to say a "workstation" generally means a board with a self-contained linear editable multitrack sequencer, i.e. the ability to program in entire compositions (that don't only need to be made up of loops/patterns). Which is why Roland does not call Juno DS or Fantom-0 workstations (but the FA is, or was).

[ProfD]

20 minutes ago, AnotherScott said:

since you emphasized the word, I'll chime in to say a "workstation" generally means a board with a self-contained linear editable multitrack sequencer...

The Juno DS does have a functional sequencer.😎

[AnotherScott]

50 minutes ago, ProfD said:

The Juno DS does have a functional sequencer.😎

8 bar pattern sequencer only. Most songs are longer than 8 measures, but you could do 4'33" with it. 😉

[Thethirdapple]

The JUNO DS also has some neat features for loop creating and pad assignment. Also “live” looping is possible…

 

 

 

PEACE

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[ProfD]

1 hour ago, AnotherScott said:

8 bar pattern sequencer only. Most songs are longer than 8 measures, but you could do 4'33" with it. 😉

 

Depending on genre/style of music, most songs are 8 bar loops/patterns chained together.😎

[AnotherScott]

2 hours ago, ProfD said:

 

Depending on genre/style of music, most songs are 8 bar loops/patterns chained together.😎

Juno DS does not let you chain loops/patterns, AFAIK.

 

(Fantom-0 does, though.)

 

But like I said, workstations gives you "the ability to program in entire compositions (that don't only need to be made up of loops/patterns"

 

Hence Roland calls the FA a "workstation," but calls the Juno DS and the Fantom-0 "synthesizers." Look at the label they put under each board at https://www.roland.com/us/categories/synthesizers/performance_workstation/