Best Hammond clone dry into a Ventilator?

[MrVegas]

Long story.  CX3 died.  BX3 on iPad too fidgety for my tastes.  I have a Fantom 06 but the tonewheel organ just sounds like shit, not really sure why.

 

I need a Hammond clone, I own a Ventilator 2.  I am extremely finicky about Leslie sims.  I hate it when on fast speed you can hear a warbling sound (hard to describe).  I think the key is that the source samples when completely "braked" have to just sound normal when processed through a Ventilator.  I realize some may say that the SK Sim is perfectly good.  I have not heard it.  

 

So I would like to make my starting point this .... "which Hammond clone sounds awesome on *fast* when being processed by a Ventilator or other Leslie simulator?"

 

I should also say that I don't want to spend $3K plus.  Haven't totally decided what my budget is, but would prefer to avoid $3K plus .... willing to go with used gear here.

 

[Doerfler]

I have a Studiologic Numa organ that I ran through a Vent II recently, and through an original Vent 10 years or so ago.  I am currently running it through a GSI Burn (thanks, Joe )

I sold the Vent only because I am running BX-3 on the Studio computer and didn't think I would need it anymore.

I do like the immediancy of the clone experience, and BX-3 is almost there.  For example, I have to use a mouse to get the leslie sim into stop position using the Numa.

Numa model is now updated to a newer version (Numa Organ 2).  The raw tone is dope and the C/V is excellent. 

I believe Scott owns or has owned both models, maybe he will see this thread and chime in.

Roland organs don't get a lot of love on this forum, we are picky. 

I remember Joey demo'ing the Roland VK7 at NAMM late 1990's, would have made anyone want to buy one who heard him play it.

As always, it's the carpenter, not the tools.  

[dazzjazz]

At this point, most organ clones do a pretty decent job before they hit the Leslie sim. If you have a Ventilator then you should be fine with a used KeyB or Legend Live, Hammond XK series. Your budget precludes the better clones such as MAG or Soul unfortunately. 

[Delaware Dave]

7 hours ago, dazzjazz said:

At this point, most organ clones do a pretty decent job before they hit the Leslie sim. 

This ...

 

Even my Voce V5+ sounds awesome through a Vent.  Have you considered a midi module like a Viscount, Voce, Mojo Desktop, HX3 module that you can pair with the Vent and the controller of your choice?

 

[Outkaster]

SK Pro

[J.F.N.]

8 hours ago, dazzjazz said:

At this point, most organ clones do a pretty decent job before they hit the Leslie sim. If you have a Ventilator then you should be fine with a used KeyB or Legend Live, Hammond XK series. Your budget precludes the better clones such as MAG or Soul unfortunately. 

 

Though the MAG use the HX3, which you could use with any keyboard of your choice, you could grab a Mojo and use both as it is and as a controller for the HX3, I am planning to get the split Mojo, and use both as controller for my HX3, but also use it alone if/when I need/want that.

 

 

[Lou_NC]

Given the editing options available in most clones these days (even back to "older" models like the Hammond XK-3), I would imagine that if you were happy with a Korg CX3, you could potentially be happy with a very affordable older used clone through the vent. I would think a used XK-3/XK-3c would work (if you're using a vent, even the XK-3 should be fine).  Heck, you might even be satisfied with an older Hammond XB-2!    

 

If the vent existed before I sold my 80's analog Korg BX-3 I would probably still be playing it today through the vent!

 

Lou

[Radagast]

12 hours ago, Doerfler said:

I have a Studiologic Numa organ that I ran through a Vent II recently, and through an original Vent 10 years or so ago.  I am currently running it through a GSI Burn (thanks, Joe )

I sold the Vent only because I am running BX-3 on the Studio computer and didn't think I would need it anymore.

I do like the immediancy of the clone experience, and BX-3 is almost there.  For example, I have to use a mouse to get the leslie sim into stop position using the Numa.

Numa model is now updated to a newer version (Numa Organ 2).  The raw tone is dope and the C/V is excellent. 

I believe Scott owns or has owned both models, maybe he will see this thread and chime in.

 

From what I’ve heard of the Numa Organ 2, it sounds amazing.  I wish it was still being made.

[McBones]

55 minutes ago, Radagast said:

From what I’ve heard of the Numa Organ 2, it sounds amazing.  I wish it was still being made.

Still have my NO2 and I use it with a Vent 2.  Sounds really good to my ear.  This isn't my main set up but I keep it for rehearsal sites rather than lugging gear to practice each week.   

[AnotherScott]

18 hours ago, MrVegas said:

Long story.  CX3 died.  BX3 on iPad too fidgety for my tastes.  I have a Fantom 06 but the tonewheel organ just sounds like shit, not really sure why.

And just to be sure, you've tried the Fantom-06 VTW sound with its own rotary disabled, and sent that out to the Vent? 

 

 

To some of the other things mentioned... Surprising (at least to me), the Leslie effect in the Numa Organ 2 is among my favorites... I liked it even better than the one in the original that so many people are a fan of, and even more than the Vent! Though its overdrive is not as good as what's in the Vent (or what was in the original Numa, IIRC). Also possible relevant, I usually play in mono.

 

I agree with those that say pretty much ANY clonewheel will sound good through a vent, which is why I wanted to double-check that you tried the Fantom-0 that way, since your problem (and possible solution) then may lie elsewhere. That said, I think the interaction between a particular clonewheel's CV (and maybe percussion?) may be more of a factor in Vent satisfaction than the tone of the organ itself (and CV is something I haven't played with much).

 

If we assume that most if not all clonewheels will work well through a vent, the question could end up being one of what else you can do to improve the experience. A Spacestation or Motion Sound amp could improve the 3D effect of the sim. The current Hammonds and some Viscount have multi-contact simulation. 

[Al Quinn]

I've had an SK Pro for three years and a Ventilator II for longer. The SK Pro sim sounds so good I've never felt the urge to try the Ventilator II with it; same goes for the HX3 Expander Module. I'm hanging on to the Ventilator II because I still use it with the dual-manual Mojo. 

[JohnDoe]

5 hours ago, Radagast said:

From what I’ve heard of the Numa Organ 2, it sounds amazing.  I wish it was still being made.

IMHO the Numa Organ 1 sounded better than the 2, including the sim, just like KeyB Organ Duo Mk2 did.

[RABid]

Your Fantom 0 has sub outs. Have you tried removing the effects and sending the organ out of those outs and to your Vent?

 

Otherwise, just search for the best deal on a used clone wheel and use it with the Vent. I hate the distortion and Leslie on my Hammond XK3c, but it sounds great through the Vent. I just remove all effects and let the Vent to its job.

[J.F.N.]

1 hour ago, JohnDoe said:

IMHO the Numa Organ 1 sounded better than the 2, including the sim, just like KeyB Organ Duo Mk2 did.

 

Any more details? Just found a Numa Organ 2 at a decent price, not clicked buy yet, as I got curious on your experience! 😊 

 

Don't "need" it, but could definitely use it... 🤣

[MrVegas]

Thanks for all the incredible input, I have never seen a Numa.  I love it when Outkaster says "SK Pro."  I'm sure I could find one for a lot less money than the XK-5.

[JohnDoe]

9 hours ago, J.F.N. said:

 

Any more details? Just found a Numa Organ 2 at a decent price, not clicked buy yet, as I got curious on your experience! 😊 

 

Don't "need" it, but could definitely use it... 🤣

I tried the Numa 2 and to my ears Numa 1 had better tone, click, crosstalk and sim.

[J.F.N.]

1 hour ago, JohnDoe said:

I tried the Numa 2 and to my ears Numa 1 had better tone, click, crosstalk and sim.

 

I found more information after searching here, interesting, the Numa Organ 1 is a KeyB in Studiologic clothes, while Numa Organ 2 is a model from Studiologic (or a licensing of something else I would imagine..).

 

https://forums.musicplayer.com/topic/161218-whats-wrong-with-the-numa-2-clone/

 

Anyways, listening to the demonstration here, I definitely find Numa Organ 2 to be a worthy clonewheel for serious usage:

 

 

 

[eric]

The Nord haters will start coming at me for sure. LOL.

 

I have been very happy with Nord organs coupled with the Ventilator. I've used NS2, NE5, and NS3 with Vent and Vent II. The Nord is far from a "purist" clone, though it does so much in addition to organ that I find it to be a really great option for the gigs I do. I am very happy with the organ sound I get from it. If you want to hear a bit, here's a clip from a session where I think the Nord organ shines nicely. I'm switching between a clav and organ part here. 

 

 

[Stokely]

Hell, I've been quite happy with the NS3 organ by itself so I won't be coming after you!

I did some tweaking based on some forum suggestions, including EQ, hi/lo balance and dialing in some compressor (which added a bit of thunk to the attack).  Also adding a bit of drive from the EQ section to sorta act as "preamp" drive for my main rock patch.

Now you have me curious about the vent though...the extra outputs would make it easy to do without having to bypass for other sounds.  I've also been having tons of fun with running a rhodes through the leslie...the whole band who normally doesn't comment on my sounds that much gave a collective "yeah! more of that!"  

I've got a lester K (purchased to use with a Kurzweil) and A/Bed with the stock leslie from the NS3.  I wouldn't say it was worse or better, just quite different.   Didn't really sound like the vent from what I've heard either.  I decided it wasn't worth the hassle of connecting it up, it would mean using my mixer as well.   The vent might be a different story.

[eric]

4 minutes ago, Stokely said:

Hell, I've been quite happy with the NS3 organ by itself so I won't be coming after you!

I did some tweaking based on some forum suggestions, including EQ, hi/lo balance and dialing in some compressor (which added a bit of thunk to the attack).  Also adding a bit of drive from the EQ section to sorta act as "preamp" drive for my main rock patch.

Now you have me curious about the vent though...the extra outputs would make it easy to do without having to bypass for other sounds.  I've also been having tons of fun with running a rhodes through the leslie...the whole band who normally doesn't comment on my sounds that much gave a collective "yeah! more of that!"  

I've got a lester K (purchased to use with a Kurzweil) and A/Bed with the stock leslie from the NS3.  I wouldn't say it was worse or better, just quite different.   Didn't really sound like the vent from what I've heard either.  I decided it wasn't worth the hassle of connecting it up, it would mean using my mixer as well.   The vent might be a different story.

 

Not to digress too far into Nord (LOL)...there are definitely a lot of edits you can tweak on the NS3 in particular to make its internal organ/sim combo really sound great. I recall sharing some edits here or maybe on the Nord User Forum. I still find the Vent is a little bit better, and it is super fun to have this option as a separate output altogether. One of my more recent discoveries is running one panel of NS3 organ through Vent, with the other panel running through internal sim. I was learning the Styx song Blue Collar Man, that has a really heavy overdriven organ that sounds like a braked Leslie (or no Leslie) and I made a Program that has a bit of both happening. Really big, heavy stuff.

[Stokely]

I think D. Deyoung may have used another type of amp/cab for organ.  Regardless, my Blue Collar Man patch is my typical lazy type--leave it on slow leslie, crank the overdrive more for the intro and turnarounds, turn it down some for the verses     If we start playing that song again I may spend more time on it but it honestly sounds pretty good to me.

Anyway, didn't mean to derail.

I do have a mini vent ii question--there's no overdrive control on it, I tend to use that from patch to patch.  I realize there are two presets, so for those that have a range of needs from no crunch to distorted, do you just go with those two presets and maybe some kind of onboard preamp distortion (as the Nord has) to further tweak?

[JoJoB3]

On 4/16/2024 at 8:24 AM, Lou_NC said:

Given the editing options available in most clones these days (even back to "older" models like the Hammond XK-3), I would imagine that if you were happy with a Korg CX3, you could potentially be happy with a very affordable older used clone through the vent. I would think a used XK-3/XK-3c would work (if you're using a vent, even the XK-3 should be fine).  Heck, you might even be satisfied with an older Hammond XB-2!    

 

If the vent existed before I sold my 80's analog Korg BX-3 I would probably still be playing it today through the vent!

 

Lou

But...
Do NOT buy an XB-2. Nobody should hand anyone $ for these.
XK2? Fine. 

[eric]

8 minutes ago, Stokely said:

I think D. Deyoung may have used another type of amp/cab for organ.  Regardless, my Blue Collar Man patch is my typical lazy type--leave it on slow leslie, crank the overdrive more for the intro and turnarounds, turn it down some for the verses     If we start playing that song again I may spend more time on it but it honestly sounds pretty good to me.

Anyway, didn't mean to derail.

I do have a mini vent ii question--there's no overdrive control on it, I tend to use that from patch to patch.  I realize there are two presets, so for those that have a range of needs from no crunch to distorted, do you just go with those two presets and maybe some kind of onboard preamp distortion (as the Nord has) to further tweak?

 

Answering your Vent question first, before further digression on Blue Collar Man...

 

I was using a Mini Vent in my rehearsal rig for a few years. Yes, it has two presets. I always had the pedal stashed away and wasn't actively changing those presets. So I just decided which sound was my favorite and left it there. Sort of the same way I use my gig Ventilator and current rehearsal Vent II units (I have a few). I just dial in my optimal Leslie setting, then I "set it and forget it." Any sort of tweaks to drive it harder would come from my Nord and the Vent stays the same.

 

Small digression on Blue Collar Man...here's the demo I made several months ago to share with Nord people.

 

 

[kpl1228]

Love my Mojo!

[JoJoB3]

Perhaps an obvs note but the 'best' dry signal to use through Vent (or Burn or Leslie pedal) is a vintage 3-series organ (direct out mod).
The difference is sizeable. Separate the men from the clones.

[HammondDave]

4 hours ago, kpl1228 said:

Love my Mojo!

Yup. That’s what I perform with. We don’r need no stinkin’ Vent!

[Lou_NC]

22 hours ago, JoJoB3 said:

But...
Do NOT buy an XB-2. Nobody should hand anyone $ for these.
XK2? Fine. 

OK, I'll bite.  Why no XB-2?  You don't like the sound?  Is it unreliable?  

I've played clonewheels since I bought my analog Korg BX-3 new in 1985.  (Before that I played a Farfisa and Leslie 760 🙂)  

Never owned an XB-2 but just wondering why it wouldn't work as a sound source through a Vent?   

[J.F.N.]

Anyone of you PC3 series owners who's run the KB3 dry out and through a Ventilator? I am toying with the idea (to get a reason to buy a Vent..) of using the aux outs on the PC3 for organ through a Vent, and as the Leslie algorithms in the PC3 are not that amazing compared to the math of today, I am hoping it could be an upgrade worth it.

 

[Moonglow]

53 minutes ago, J.F.N. said:

Anyone of you PC3 series owners who's run the KB3 dry out and through a Ventilator? I am toying with the idea (to get a reason to buy a Vent..) of using the aux outs on the PC3 for organ through a Vent, and as the Leslie algorithms in the PC3 are not that amazing compared to the math of today, I am hoping it could be an upgrade worth it.

 

It’s been a while, but I ran the KB3 engine in my PC3x through an original Vent to see what it sounded like. Substantial improvement. Kind of had a greezy thing going on, IIRC.

[J.F.N.]

Just now, Moonglow said:

It’s been a while, but I ran the KB3 engine in my PC3x through an original Vent to see what it sounded like. Substantial improvement. Kind of had a greezy thing going on, IIRC.

 

Hehe, yeah, I mean, the organ tones themselves sounds more than okay, and the chorus is decent, so should probably be pretty pretty I would guess!