Roland FP90x vs Yamaha P515/ P525

[mrk7421]

I am not sure what I have to gain by asking for opinions but I am still in pursuit of getting a digital piano with speakers for home use. I have access to being able to hear the Yamaha P 515 which is being discounted at a shop near me. But before making that decision I am interested in hearing thoughts regarding the Yamaha P525 and the Roland FP90x................I am replacing a Roland RD 300 GX which I loved for many reasons. I used it for 13 years but it may be unrepairable. It made me respect Roland because I think it outshined most of what Yamaha offered in 2010 when I got it. But as stated in a previous thread there are no FP90x to demo and currently no P525 models around yet. The P515 discount is tempting and the local piano shop owner is a good guy. Still trying to hear feedback on the Roland's with this sound engine 

[CHarrell]

What are the major factors you're wanting to compare? I actually played both right next to each other last weekend. 

[drawback]

After reading your post, I took a look at both the P525 and the F90x and both have differing reviews on the Sweetwater site. You might want to start there. I think if you’re enamoured with Rolands, you might be happier with the F90x. If you take a chance, buying with a good return policy, it looks like a good one.

[CHarrell]

1 hour ago, Dave Ferris said:

I've played the F90X on two occasions now. I can see it being appealing to people that like the Roland concept of what a digital piano should sound like but the touch, tone and the overall player feedback I got were not at all my preference. The Roland is solid and very well built.

 

My last playthrough actually had me thinking the keybed was surprisingly similar to each other, though I would give Yamaha the edge for its "crispness" of touch, where the 90x felt a little softer and mushier.

[mrk7421]

Good to hear feedback on P525 and FP90x. Sometimes newer doesn't always equal better....another factor would be Rhodes samples on these. The Rhodes that Yamaha offers almost gets it for me....the one I like has the ping pong tremelo.....the tonality is nice but the bouncing effect gets distracting. I am not sure I am wild about the Rhodes modeling from Roland lately. My buying decision has a lot to do with past experience with Roland whereas some of my earlier Yamaha experiences were not so good...noisy keys etc. The 515 does tempt me and the price is attractive.

[ElmerJFudd]

Based on your distaste for Roland’s VPiano sounds in the RD2000 and models in Pianoteq, I would suggest making the Yamaha P515 on your list a priority to try out.  You should also give the Korg SV2-SP 88k a spin (though I’m surprised to see it priced so high for the tech it’s based on).  
 

Once you get to about $2k you should be taking a good look at a Yamaha Clavinova - better stand, better speaker system, triple pedal, sheet music/tablet stand, decent looking piece of furniture.  

 

 

[pawelsz]

4 hours ago, ElmerJFudd said:

Based on your distaste for Roland’s VPiano sounds in the RD2000 and models in Pianoteq, I would suggest making the Yamaha P515 on your list a priority to try out.  You should also give the Korg SV2-SP 88k a spin (though I’m surprised to see it priced so high for the tech it’s based on).  
 

Once you get to about $2k you should be taking a good look at a Yamaha Clavinova - better stand, better speaker system, triple pedal, sheet music/tablet stand, decent looking piece of furniture.  

 

 

 

IMHO P-515 for acoustic pianos, SV-2 for electric. Really. But trying for yourself is always recommended. Kawai has some amps simulations in ES/MP lines too, so those could be useful for electric pianos. 

Acoustic pianos on SV-2 do have noticeable amount of something like white noise in samples, particularly on higher and highest velocity layers. I also think that the whole board is constantly humming a bit just a little. Silence is not perfectly silent. Noise gate on my Kurzweil PC4-7 audio input shows this perfectly (I am playing my Yamaha and Korg through Kurzweil). I can also switch the gate off. This Kurzweil is the cleanest sounding board I have ever owned when it comes to "background noise volume level". 

OTOH while Yamaha pianos sound is quite sterile as we often see on forums, SV-2 is totally opposite. They are so warm and imperfect, even dark, good for playing solo but I can't find any acoustic piano from the new samples included in SV-2 that has the proper rock and roll bite to play with the loud band and cut through. But it's fine for solo playing. Your opinion may be different, obviously. I am unable to tell how SV-2 sound from its speakers, because I have the version without them. 

[CHarrell]

28 minutes ago, pawelsz said:

Kawai has some amps simulations in ES/MP lines too, so those could be useful for electric pianos. 

 

I've been very pleasantly surprised by all of the effects on offer in their recent line of digital pianos: the amp sims make a strong impact, and with overdrive, you can get some real crunch in the sound. Only thing is that the ES effect slots are very limited: you have the MP with the larger amount of effects slots, but those get a lot higher in weight. My dream is an updated MP where they update the interface and get the weight down to ES levels. 

[mrk7421]

This is what has developed. An FP90x has become available at a church at a low price. For some reason they are selling it after only 4 months use. I still haven't heard one and I have not heard the Yamaha P525. So a big issue for me would be the EPs on the FP90x.Is the FP90x sound library the same or similar to the Fantom 8?  I have heard that and I was not super impressed with the EPs....whick kind of surprised me. ......................................... The location of this church FP90x is a bit of a drive....but their price would make it easy to flip if I didn't like it.  It's  weird....this FP90x shows up actually a couple days after I started this thread. So I guess I will be finding out.

[Legatoboy]

I have an FP80  (older/dated and maybe not germain to this thread). I  don't dig the Roland  piano sounds of that vintage on it compared to Yamaha and Nord that I often MIDI to from it for home recording use, I do keep it at home for it's accompianiment functions and keybed playability ... it's fun in those regards.  It's also heavy as all get out...

[mrk7421]

I don't know much about the FP80....but I remember when the Supernatural Roland's came out I was not in love with them after having the RD300gx...which had Superior Grand sample and a very good warm Rhodes sample. They have improved the Supernatural and use it in many of the newer models. As I am saying.... FP10 supernatural not bad with some EQing. I am always adjusting the treble and touch settings to balance those super "unnatural" upper harmonics...IMO the Achilles heel of most digital pianos. The FP10 has excellent lower register.

[mrk7421]

Does FP90x have the same Rhodes as the Fantom 8?I did hear that the other night and also heard the acoustic sample.I think Elmer said the FP90x shares the same or similar sound engine with the higher end Fantom. On the Fantom there was only one main Rhodes....1976 or something. Anyway a church is selling a FP90x super cheap and am wondering why they would dump it after 4 months.?????

[ElmerJFudd]

5 hours ago, mrk7421 said:

Does FP90x have the same Rhodes as the Fantom 8?I did hear that the other night and also heard the acoustic sample.I think Elmer said the FP90x shares the same or similar sound engine with the higher end Fantom. On the Fantom there was only one main Rhodes....1976 or something. Anyway a church is selling a FP90x super cheap and am wondering why they would dump it after 4 months.?????

The FP90x has what Roland at the moment is calling, "Pure Acoustic Piano Modeling" which is based on their VPiano tech which offers unlimited polyphony.   The Fantom 8 has both modeled and sampled piano sounds to choose from.  The sampled pianos have polyphony limitations.  

 

If the church is nearby, this is a great opportunity to go try it out.  One can only speculate about why they are letting the FP90x go.  Perhaps a new music director wants a wider sound palette?  Maybe the FP90x is too heavy to move around?  You'd have to ask.  

[Adan]

They're both top notch contenders, I think you just have to try them, as touch and finger to ear connection are so personal and subjective. 

 

Personally, I'm a fan of the action on the FP90X. Maybe it's a bit less crisp than the Yamaha, but to me just feels good to play for hours on end. Roland was able to warm up the APs in the 90X compared to the 90, and with that I'd probably choose the Roland. But the 515/525 is arguably a better bang for the buck.

 

i definitely like the Yamaha EPs over Roland, which you say is important to you.

 

I like Korg's EPs better than either Yamana or Roland, but Korg doesn't offer an action in the class of these others.

 

I own a Numa X GT, and I prefer the action in that to either Yamaha or Roland. All have great actions, I just think Numa is a bit better. The APs are maybe not quite as good, but they're more than good enough, as are EPs. No speakers though.

[ElmerJFudd]

Sound Comparison Roland FP-90X vs Yamaha P-515 vs Kawai ES-920 | Digitalpiano.com (youtube.com)

 

Comparison - ES920 vs. FP-90X

[CrossRhodes]

I don’t find the internal sounds of the FP-90X anything to write home about but I enjoy the PHA-50 action and it works great as a VST controller for piano and EPs. I primarily use Noire, Modern U, Scarbee A200 | EP88s and Canterbury Suitcase. It’s a very enjoyable combo.

[mrk7421]

Thank you Elmer for sound comparison. The church is offering FP90x at a ridiculously low price. It's a bit of a drive and the other part of the deal is in order to get first appointment they want a commitment to buy...a little weird there.                                                                                                                                                           Yes I heard the 1976 Rhodes on the Fantom....it's like....what?  I also heard the Fantom piano....is FP90x the same V piano? There were some lower register overtones that seemed a bit squirelly.....but at the church price....I could try for awhile.                                                                                                                                   Or I could continue to live with FP 10.  FP 10 has served me well.....but you have to mess with outboard speakers....EQ.... and FP  10 Rhodes could be better. But was surprised that Fantom.....which I can hear at GC.....doesn't have many Rhodes options. Damn.....the friggin 15 year old Roland RD 300 GX had a damn nice Rhodes. Are these companies going backwards?

[mrk7421]

Cross Rhodes....which of the above is acoustic piano sample? Could look them up I suppose....so you have the luxury of having the 90x as a controller. Once again ....the question again would be does software become superior to the modeling of V piano? I would have to look into what ever you are using for acoustic.

 

 

[mrk7421]

It looks like I am not getting great feedback on the FP 90x. Cross Rhodes posted above that he is using the 90x as a controller for software....and the thread on the Fantom above has at least one person saying that the EP's are in the cons column.                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              The bargain FP90x that I have access to is a bit of a distance away...you would think that a flagship level Roland would be worth the trip.Roads around here are iced up at the moment. But back to the consideration of Yamaha.....does anyone know if the EP offering on 525 is the same as 515?  

[Old No7]

On 1/14/2024 at 12:08 PM, mrk7421 said:

The church is offering FP90x at a ridiculously low price. It's a bit of a drive and the other part of the deal is in order to get first appointment they want a commitment to buy...a little weird there.

 

So... Be weird back at 'em.  

 

Make the commitment, go there and play it -- not just for 5 minutes.

 

Be prepared with cash $$ or a U.S. Postal money order in case you DO want it.  (Not made out to them, you can cash it made out to yourself if you don't use it.)

 

If you DON'T want it, still pretend that you do and whip out an obviously faked money order -- and let them refuse your payment...  Act a little disappointed and leave...

 

Be sure to ask "why they're selling it" a couple of different ways, to different folks if there's more than one... See if the stories align.

 

Old No7

[Jazz+]

Kawai ES series recommended, I’m not a fan of the Roland and Yamaha.

[Adan]

I like that the Kawai ES920 is only 37 pounds, and that's with 20-watt speakers.  You should give the EPs a careful listen though.

 

My opinion would be that if the goal is to maximize EP sounds, quality of action, and with speakers, the Yamaha P is probably the best package.

[LarsHarner2]

On 1/15/2024 at 3:56 PM, Jazz+ said:

Kawai ES series recommended, I’m not a fan of the Roland and Yamaha.

I agree, my ES8 is still going strong after 8+ years, I prefer the action to the Roland

[mrk7421]

I may look into Kawai....had a brief encounter 6 months ago that didn't leave me with the thought I had to have it. The action was good though. By the way...there are some Kawai models on ebay that ship from Japan at bargain prices. I think duties are added....not sure how that would pan out.                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            FP 90x is being offered at such a low price  ( to me) that it tempts me. But if EP is the same as Fantom...that could be a deal breaker. That being said ...there are other EP offerings that fall short on other boards. I like the Nord and Kronos EPs but those are not within budget.

 

[CrossRhodes]

On 1/14/2024 at 9:33 AM, mrk7421 said:

Cross Rhodes....which of the above is acoustic piano sample? Could look them up I suppose....so you have the luxury of having the 90x as a controller. Once again ....the question again would be does software become superior to the modeling of V piano? I would have to look into what ever you are using for acoustic.

 

 

Noire is my current fav piano VST for jazz and blues. I prefer VST's but it's all very subjective and a deep rabbit hole to go down (watch out for your wallet!). There are many times when I sit down for technical practice that I am happy with the FP-90X's internal sounds but when I'm playing tunes or writing I just prefer the sound of Noire. It's a quality board though so if they're offering it up at a good price could be good just to go check it out for yourself.