Mixer with recording capability?

[MrVegas]

I typically play two keyboards in my home setup.  Sometimes a friend will play acoustic guitar and sing.  Also might want to plug in a laptop with drum tracks. Maximum of 8-10 tracks.  This is NOT professional, just having fun.  People come over and listen and often say at the end "I wish I could have a recording of what you guys just played."

 

So I bought a QSC Touchmix 12.  Honestly, it's a pain in the ass.  I keep running into situations where the recording functionality stops working, long story.  

 

I want a mixer that will easily record to an SD card or USB hard drive.  It would be nice if it had onboard reverb.

 

Any suggestions?

 

 

P.S. these are home worship-oriented sessions, keys, ambient, kind of like unplugged sets only with keyboards

[Baldwin Funster]

Run your line outs to a ZOOM  hand held type recorder.  Recording mixers are called portastudios and are out of fashion because of DAWs and are a pain to use anyways. The easiest way is what I said above.

[Delaware Dave]

35 minutes ago, Baldwin Funster said:

Run your line outs to a ZOOM  hand held type recorder.  Recording mixers are called portastudios and are out of fashion because of DAWs and are a pain to use anyways. The easiest way is what I said above.

This ^^.  Sound advice.

[wd8dky]

Tascam Model 12

 

[Old No7]

Another option might be to use an Audio Streaming Interface to receive the output from the mixer.  I use an iRig Stream for this, as it's stereo, and records via the iRig app on my iPhone.  Then it can be saved as an M4A audio file and emailed (or sent via text if it's not too big).  There are more options within the app if you pay extra, but I don't and have had great results with it.

 

Old No7 

[ESFlash]

These three have become workhorses in the industry -- sturdy, easy to use, versatile, and records in various format resolutions (WAVs & MP3s) -- and easy on the wallet

 

This one is based on their original, 2009, H4n, now called the H4n Pro

 

https://zoomcorp.com/en/us/handheld-recorders/handheld-recorders/h4n-pro/

 

or in a six track version

 

https://zoomcorp.com/en/us/handheld-recorders/handheld-recorders/h6-audio-recorder/

 

and this gives you 12 tracks

 

https://zoomcorp.com/en/us/handheld-recorders/handheld-recorders/h8/

 

If you need more inputs, as stated in a post above, put a mixer on the front end.

 

You can also  interface to a mac or PC for addtnl capabilities

 

 

[Old No7]

1 hour ago, Baldwin Funster said:

 Recording mixers are called portastudios and are out of fashion because of DAWs and are a pain to use anyways.

 

Yes, that's one perspective -- yet not the only one.  Here's another...

 

=>  Portastudios may be the best option if the primary focus is on "playing and recording music" -- not on "using a computer with a complicated program".

 

->  Many of us "don't want to start up another computer at night" after working on one for 8 to 10 hours already.

......For those of us in the "No, not another computer!" camp, Portastudios are an excellent and less expensive option.

 

->  In the short time that it takes my 3 keyboards to boot, my Tascam DP-24SD Portastudio is "on" and ready to go as well.

......And it doesn't suffer any of the known performance or technical issues with DAWs such as upgrades, driver compatibility, latency, CPU processing, MIDI issues, audio dropouts, pops & clicks or digital glitches, inadequate buffers, etc.  That's just a partial list after viewing "Problems with a DAW" on Google.  And don't forget to add in all the hardware & software costs too.

 

->  Any "pain" of learning how to use a Portastudio has to be compared to the learning curve of using a DAW.

......From what I understand, there's no comparison -- Portastudios are much easier to learn, and quicker to be making recordings that can sound great.  I was recording music on my DP-24 in under half an hour after first turning it on, and from what I hear, DAWs are nowhere near as "plug in and play" capable.

 

Portastudios offer the ability to quickly record your songs or musical ideas.  Many of the active users online report their Tascam units help to spark their creativity, while they find that using a DAW can often stifle it...  I don't have a DAW so I can't confirm the last part of that sentence, but I'll vouch for the first part.  I run the output of my mixer to the DP-24 and then to the speakers or monitors; and I always keep Tracks 1 &2 (L & R) armed so that with one button press, I can be recording right away.

 

So...

 

I'd encourage the original poster to check out the "2488 and DP-24/32 Digital Portastudios" page on tascamsforum.com, as it's a great resource and you can learn a lot or a little (based on how deep you want to dive into mixing & mastering after doing the recording) on how to get the best performance out of a Tascam portastudio.

 

Old No7

[KuruPrionz]

I have a Tascam DR-40, check the specs. I believe it is designed to record up to 4 tracks simultaneously. I never needed to do that so I'm not sure how that works. 

Stereo sounds great and the mics can be set wide or close, they swivel. 

To record 4 track there are 2 XLR combo jacks so I guess you could also plug a mixer into there and mic stuff up but it would record that as 2 channels even if you had 8 channels coming in at the front of the mixer.

[stoken6]

My sound engineer has (I think) a PreSonus StudioLive that can record multitrack to SD card. That might be "too professional" for what you need?

 

Cheers, Mike.

[MrVegas]

this is great information, thank you everyone!

 

[D. Gauss]

You already have a professional tool that is more than capable of doing the job you ask of it and is arguably a better tool than anything already suggested.  You haven't explained why you are unable to record with a $1200 tool that is tailor made for the very task that it was designed for. As long as your firmware is up to date, you boot and connect the drive in the correct order and use a QSC approved (they have a list), high speed memory drive, you should be golden.

[Cabo]

I use the QSC Touchmix to record everything.  It has no issues.  

 

Maybe you aren't using the right kind of drive.   I know standard USB sticks don't work well.   I use this:

 

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0B8GKWSB9/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&th=1

 

 

[D. Gauss]

exactly

[DaveMcM]

4 hours ago, Old No7 said:

 

Yes, that's one perspective -- yet not the only one.  Here's another...

 

=>  Portastudios may be the best option if the primary focus is on "playing and recording music" -- not on "using a computer with a complicated program".

 

->  Many of us "don't want to start up another computer at night" after working on one for 8 to 10 hours already.

......For those of us in the "No, not another computer!" camp, Portastudios are an excellent and less expensive option.

 

->  In the short time that it takes my 3 keyboards to boot, my Tascam DP-24SD Portastudio is "on" and ready to go as well.

......And it doesn't suffer any of the known performance or technical issues with DAWs such as upgrades, driver compatibility, latency, CPU processing, MIDI issues, audio dropouts, pops & clicks or digital glitches, inadequate buffers, etc.  That's just a partial list after viewing "Problems with a DAW" on Google.  And don't forget to add in all the hardware & software costs too.

 

->  Any "pain" of learning how to use a Portastudio has to be compared to the learning curve of using a DAW.

......From what I understand, there's no comparison -- Portastudios are much easier to learn, and quicker to be making recordings that can sound great.  I was recording music on my DP-24 in under half an hour after first turning it on, and from what I hear, DAWs are nowhere near as "plug in and play" capable.

 

Portastudios offer the ability to quickly record your songs or musical ideas.  Many of the active users online report their Tascam units help to spark their creativity, while they find that using a DAW can often stifle it...  I don't have a DAW so I can't confirm the last part of that sentence, but I'll vouch for the first part.  I run the output of my mixer to the DP-24 and then to the speakers or monitors; and I always keep Tracks 1 &2 (L & R) armed so that with one button press, I can be recording right away.

 

So...

 

I'd encourage the original poster to check out the "2488 and DP-24/32 Digital Portastudios" page on tascamsforum.com, as it's a great resource and you can learn a lot or a little (based on how deep you want to dive into mixing & mastering after doing the recording) on how to get the best performance out of a Tascam portastudio.

 

Old No7

 Ditto, thanks. The above shortens my posting time considerably. I bought a powerful laptop and Studio 5 Pro software, a bunch of VST sounds, etc. and finally gave the laptop to my son to use for editing his Kemper amp. There is no comparison, ease of use wise, between a computer based DAW and a portastudio. Yes you can do far more editing and manipulation with a DAW, but for just laying down multiple tracks simply, you can't beat a multitrack digital recorder. I also have the Tascam DP-24SD MultiTrack Recorder. It is simple and quick to use, records to an SD card and can make CD's if you are still using them. Being just this side of 'old fart' land, I still have CD's.

[Zalman Stern]

As a couple folks have mentioned, if the QSC isn't working for you, it's hard to recommend an alternative in a mixer that has recording capability as the QSC is considered a high quality version of that product area. I have not used the QSC but personally like the SoundCraft Ui24. It is likely a bit big for your needs, but the smaller versions supposedly have different analog electronics and may not be as good. Even there, for anything important, I record to both USB drive and USB out into a DAW on a computer. Annoyingly, there is a 32GB limit for the drive on direct recording. Making a small partition on a larger USB stick works fine. The USB sticks get really hot, which seems undesirable but there's not much to do about it.

 

I don't think the Behringer/Midas options in the lower end have built-in recording, but you can also record over USB into a DAW with them. Zoom has the LiveTrak line, as well as the aforementioned digital recorders, all of which will get the job done nicely. (The only issue with Zoom recorders is making sure they have reliable power for the entire session. USB jacks are not 100% reliable in practice, doubly so for the micro versions on the H6, etc. The F8/F8n offer a Hirose connector which is reliable. Using batteries as backup is an option, but requires keeping track of charge level and you don't want to leave AAs in an H6 when you're not using it because it will drain them.)

 

So after all of that, there's the question of whether you're going to mix multitrack or just want a stereo mixdown from the board. If the mixdown is all you want, a lot of digital mixers are overkill and their complexity of use will likely just annoy you. Doing mixdown in a DAW produces better results, but can eat up a bunch of time. The most reliable way to get a no effort, half way decent recording is to mic the room. You can do that with pretty much any of these setups if you have a couple extra tracks on the mixer or recorder. The Zoom recorders with their stereo mics work well for this, but have to be placed accordingly. Placement may or may not be easy if also running instruments and such into the recorder.

 

-Z-

 

[Sean M. H.]

Not a recommendation per say (as I've never used one myself)...but Sweetwater shows the aforementioned Tascam Model 12 is currently on sale--$100 off...at under $600 bucks, that seems like an awful lot of power/flexibility at that price point.  Gets solid user reviews too 🤷‍♂️

[murphybridget]

Considering your preferences, you might want to check out the Zoom LiveTrak L-12. It has straightforward recording to SD card, USB connectivity, and onboard effects including reverb.

[Manolios]

On 12/29/2023 at 2:15 PM, MrVegas said:

I typically play two keyboards in my home setup.  Sometimes a friend will play acoustic guitar and sing.  Also might want to plug in a laptop with drum tracks. Maximum of 8-10 tracks.  This is NOT professional, just having fun.  People come over and listen and often say at the end "I wish I could have a recording of what you guys just played."

 

So I bought a QSC Touchmix 12.  Honestly, it's a pain in the ass.  I keep running into situations where the recording functionality stops working, long story.  

 

I want a mixer that will easily record to an SD card or USB hard drive.  It would be nice if it had onboard reverb.

 

Any suggestions?

 

 

P.S. these are home worship-oriented sessions, keys, ambient, kind of like unplugged sets only with keyboards

 

I highly recommend the Zoom Livetrak series. I personally use the L-12, it works flawlessly, live and in the studio, great sounding mic preamps, low noise, nice enough fx, genius routing options for headphones mixes and so on, great working audio interface (using it with Logic) and last but not least, easy to use sd-recorder. 

[harmonizer]

Zoom L20.

It has 18 completely independent inputs.

I use it as both the live mixing board for our covers band gigs, and as our multitrack recorder.

We have 7 people in the band, 5 of whom sing at various times. On some songs we have 4 people singing at once, with some of those singers playing keys or guitar at the same time. And two of us play horns and sometimes switch rapidly between playing a horn (which uses a separate mic) and singing backup vocals.

It has 6 separate monitor outs, which can each have a separate mix - this is a wonderful thing, especially if want to have separate monitor mixes for certain band members using in-ear monitors.

The separate tracks get recorded on some sort of SD card, which I can then easily transfer to a computer for post-gig mixing.

I have used my Zoom L20 for at least 7 gigs with this 7 person covers band. From my perspective, it is completely up to the task.

[HSS]

2 hours ago, harmonizer said:

Zoom L20.

It has 18 completely independent inputs.

I use it as both the live mixing board for our covers band gigs, and as our multitrack recorder.

We have 7 people in the band, 5 of whom sing at various times. On some songs we have 4 people singing at once, with some of those singers playing keys or guitar at the same time. And two of us play horns and sometimes switch rapidly between playing a horn (which uses a separate mic) and singing backup vocals.

It has 6 separate monitor outs, which can each have a separate mix - this is a wonderful thing, especially if want to have separate monitor mixes for certain band members using in-ear monitors.

The separate tracks get recorded on some sort of SD card, which I can then easily transfer to a computer for post-gig mixing.

I have used my Zoom L20 for at least 7 gigs with this 7 person covers band. From my perspective, it is completely up to the task.

I have a Zoom L12 and I agree. 

[murphybridget]

15 hours ago, harmonizer said:

Zoom L20.

It has 18 completely independent inputs.

I use it as both the live mixing board for our covers band gigs, and as our multitrack recorder.

We have 7 people in the band, 5 of whom sing at various times. On some songs we have 4 people singing at once, with some of those singers playing keys or guitar at the same time. And two of us play horns and sometimes switch rapidly between playing a horn (which uses a separate mic) and singing backup vocals.

It has 6 separate monitor outs, which can each have a separate mix - this is a wonderful thing, especially if want to have separate monitor mixes for certain band members using in-ear monitors.

The separate tracks get recorded on some sort of SD card, which I can then easily transfer to a computer for post-gig mixing.

I have used my Zoom L20 for at least 7 gigs with this 7 person covers band. From my perspective, it is completely up to the task.

 Your Zoom L20 setup sounds like a game-changer, especially with 18 independent inputs – perfect for capturing the dynamic energy of a 7-person covers band. The convenience of recording directly onto an SD card for easy post-gig mixing is a feature any musician would appreciate.

 I'm curious however if a cheering crowd in the back ground ever make it to the post-gig record of a mic'd up drum set.

[D. Gauss]

8 hours ago, murphybridget said:

 Your Zoom L20 setup sounds like a game-changer, especially with 18 independent inputs – perfect for capturing the dynamic energy of a 7-person covers band. The convenience of recording directly onto an SD card for easy post-gig mixing is a feature any musician would appreciate.

 

 

Not really changing the game as that's pretty much what the OP already has, albeit the QSC is arguably more high end.

[harmonizer]

The QSC looks like an impressive machine.

But it does look like one might need to do some screen navigation to set output levels for individual tracks. (edit: at first I thought this was true for setting preamp levels too, but then I saw the physical dials on the Touchmix-16).

 

From about 2008-2016 I used a Korg D3200 as both my live mixing board and for the multitrack recorder, and it was tricky to do this. It looks like the QSC device is way better than the Korg D3200 as a live mixing board, starting with the fact that the QSC device has a much bigger screen. But my experience with my Korg D3200 from 2008-2016 gave me sensitivity to how needing to navigate screens can make it more tricky to make adjustments on the fly at a gig. I'm not saying you can't use the QSC as a live mixer, but I would prefer a device that allows output levels for each track to be viewed and adjusted without any screen navigation. The picture I saw of a Touchmix-16 shows the settings for 8 faders on the screen. I don't see any physical faders for output levels for tracks, so it looks like the these only exist in a screen on the QSC. If you are a small-time covers band and don't have a full time sound guy, you're juggling a lot of balls in the air during setup and as you make adjustments during the first few songs.

[Mark Schmieder]

I looked into this last year and concluded that it isn't worth it. Too many compromises until you get closer to $2K. Ergonomically, the one with the fewest flaws is the series from Tascam (although each model has different issues), but rather than wait to see if the next revs or models address these issues, I bought an Allen & Heath last week, and it's even more amazing than I expected it to be. Furthermore, it does have a multi-channel USB output available for direct transfer of independent tracks, though only at 16-bit  vs. 24-bit resolution.

 

I decided not to splurge on Sound Devices (the cheaper line not the super-expensive pro line) due to ergonomics, and I sold my RME Fireface UFX a few years ago as I didn't find it all that convenient to do USB thumb drive direct recording using a rack unit (I got rid of ALL of my rack gear!), given the menu diving and lack of flexibility compared to a real mixer or doing things directly on a computer. But it did help with a few drum sessions before recording other parts. I do things old school style now though; all live.

 

Anyway, the Tascam units probably come the closest to the old Portastudio workflow that many of us are familiar with, and for the most part they are fairly good mixers, maybe equivalent to Yamaha quality but probably a bit below that grade altogether. They go on sale now and then for good prices, so they're not a bad short-term solution or placeholder as an all-in-one unit, but you can fnd most of the caveats listed in user reviews at Sweetwater's site or in Sound-on-Sound reviews.

 

Of course, there are also some mid-level solutions that aren't full-on mixers but do multiple channels and mics, especially from Zoom and Tascam, in those sort of box shapes that aren't too different from what Sound Devices offers, but I suspect those aren't the ergonomics you are looking for.

[DroptopBroham]

The Zoom L8 Livetrak is sweet and sounds like exactly what you need. Eight channel mixer/recorder. They have 12 and 20 track versions if you need more channels. I've been using it at home to run my keyboards to PA speakers and also for home jams with a guitarist and drummer. Easy to use and records great too.  Not too expensive.

[Mark Schmieder]

Yeah I almost bought that device last year, then thought I'd wait to see what the next rev is like, as Zoom have really upped their game the past few years and the competition from Tascam is helping both players to improve. I figure that Zoom device might still find a place in workflow even with a traditional A&H mixer (albeit with USB) in tow.

 

One of the advantages that tends to still be exclusively in the mixer domain, is multiple auxes for different monitoring feeds for each musician, when that's needed (whether for live work, or in the studio during full-band tracking or drum tracking with "ghost" instrumental tracks).

[murphybridget]

You're right about the multiple auxes in the mixer domain, particularly valuable for personalized monitoring feeds in various scenarios.