A different take on Nords from lifelong amateur

[danskeys]

A different perspective on the Nord Stage 4 from an aging, lifelong musician.  A perspective to help the naysayers understand why some of us can justify the high Nord prices.  And sorry for the long post.

Note I said, "musician", not "professional musician".  I've played piano/keyboards since I was about 4 years old.  I was pretty good.  Not amazing.  But pretty good.  Played in a bunch of bands.  Played solo a bit in NYC.  Asked my wife to marry me in a dive bar in NYC, playing a Yamaha P90, singing a song I wrote for the occasion.  All just background to understand the important role music played/plays in my life.

 

I started out with a Korg Poly 61, and soon after, a Juno-106.  I could program those.  I had a lot of fun.  But after that, pretty much every keyboard I got went over my head.  I never scratched the surface of a CZ-101 or my Prophet 2000.  I just played the presets of my K1000se and my Korg M3r.  From there I focused on the new wave of lightweight, and great-sounding slabs like the Yamaha P80 and P90.  I got back to basics with piano playing/singer-songwriter stuff.  I got a Yamaha S90, and a Kurzweil PC2r, both phenomenal devices, but again, I just could never wrap my head around the complexity and deep menus, and stuck to the presets with barely any tweaking.  Then I got married, had kids and stopped playing for a while.

Now that my kids are older (can be left without threat of accidental death, we hope,) I decided to get back into more serious playing.  I had sold all my gear (except the P90 for sentimental reasons,) and began looking at all the new toys out there.  First thing that struck me was that not a ton has changed since I left with respect to a lot of gear.  Yes, sounds are better, but not insanely better.  Keybeds feel better, but again, the P80 and S90 had keyboards I enjoyed playing.  Not orders of magnitude better now.  But...then I found a Nord Stage 3 at a store.  Absolutely NO WAY I would pay that kind of money.  It's not necessary.  Why would anyone pay $4,200 for a Stage 3 88 when you can buy an RD2000 or YC for half the price??  Nope.  Not even going to consider it.  Just because it's red?  No.

Then...I played the White Grand on the Stage 3.  OK.  Now I get it.  It just sounds better, to me, than literally anything else out there.  I had an emotional reaction to the sounds on the Nord.  I bought it the next day without hesitation.

But it turns out the sounds are just the beginning.

 

Then I discovered something else about the Nord Stage: for the first time in my life, I can actually PROGRAM a complex synth!  After a learning curve (which I'm still on), I was designing my own sounds again, like on the Juno-106.  I wonder why?  Well, because of all those knobs, buttons and faders.  It's intuitive.  I guess I'm not a menu diver.  And now...I am IN LOVE with the Nord!

 I'm playing every day again.  I making my own sounds (which is just soooo satisfying on so many levels.)  Pianos.  Layered pianos.  Pianos with organ.  Sounds with layers, splits, pads, organs, synths, EPs.  Everything.  My music world has blown wide open in a way I never thought it would.  Creating my own EP and organ presets, for example, with the FX exactly how I want them, has opened up my piano-focused world to learning more about Rhodes and Hammond genres.  The new musical horizons seem endless.

 

All this to say, for some of us, the interface of the Nord Stage is second to none by orders of magnitude.  And that the sounds are simply wonderful, and the build quality is top notch, just makes it all worth the gigantic price tag.  I sit down at the Stage and it just *feels* so good from the moment I press the power button (a very satisfying button, I'll add.)  And yes, I upgraded to the Stage 4 less than a year later.

 

My advice, don't disparage the Nords without trying them, like I did.  Maybe they're not for you.  And if the money is simply too much, I get it.  But for me, at 52yo, knowing that we don't live forever, I just can't say enough good things about Nord.  So glad I gave it the chance.

 

Happy playing. 

[Paul Woodward]

Lovely story and glad you are happy with your purchase. To offer a different perspective, there are lots of great boards out there, maybe you didn’t get to try them. People like me find they can connect, and get what they need, from boards costing much less, and my own take is that the paint colour adds way more than it should to the price, much like an Apple logo.

You connect with a device and it becomes a joy to play, I felt that way with my Korg Grandstage after years of being a Yamaha piano user, I simply connect with it, and it cost the bargain price of £500. Having owned it a few years, I would happily have paid much more…money isn’t always the barrier to getting the right equipment.

No doubt Nords are good machines, but your title and board could quite easily be changed with the same sentiment for someone else.

Bottom line though, is you are happy with it and that is all that matters.

[danskeys]

2 minutes ago, Paul Woodward said:

Lovely story and glad you are happy with your purchase. To offer a different perspective, there are lots of great boards out there, maybe you didn’t get to try them. People like me find they can connect, and get what they need, from boards costing much less, and my own take is that the paint colour adds way more than it should to the price, much like an Apple logo.

You connect with a device and it becomes a joy to play, I felt that way with my Korg Grandstage after years of being a Yamaha piano user, I simply connect with it, and it cost the bargain price of £500. Having owned it a few years, I would happily have payed much more…money isn’t always the barrier to getting the right equipment.

No doubt Nords are good machines, but your title and board could quite easily be changed with the same sentiment for someone else.

Bottom line though, is you are happy with it and that is all that matters.

Totally!  Whatever floats your boat.  My point was just to say that to me, the price seemed completely absurd, at first.  But now it's priceless.  But again, to each their own!

[timwat]

Awesome story, and really underscores the idea of real value to me.

 

A lot of times consumers think of value as simply an equation of "divide features by purchase price" or similar, and we mentally come up with a comparison between options. Camry vs. Accord. Mac vs. Windows. Call a plumber vs. buy a snake at Home Depot (and then wash your hands).

 

But music's a little different. It's got an added dimension of real emotions and being a partner in the creative process (or a hindrance). Guitar players give them women's names. They're partners on a journey toward a shared destination. And then we look back on the original purchase price and...I'm not sure I even remember what I paid for it.

 

This is sort of how it ends up with my raggedy old Kronos with the key bed I replaced myself. Or my old short Nord Wave (the original, not the 2). I don't remember what I paid for them unless I look through the old emails.

 

But I remember them being with me when I met that singer. When I played with that bandleader who sadly had a heart attack and I still miss as my old friend. When I wrote that tune. When we had that crazy wedding gig. And at its best, that's where the real value is. Partners in crime, partners on the journey.

 

We keyboard players tend to be more about "replace the technology with the new thing" than naming that old 335 "Lucille". There are good reasons for that, and part of that is the ever-expanding demands placed upon working KB players. 

 

But it's not only about that, and this thread reminds me of that all over again.

 

 

[Stokely]

I'm in two worlds....the one where I really like Nords (I've owned an Electro 6 and now a Stage 3)....and the one where I'm a (relatively) cheap bastard.

I can afford a new Nord Stage 4, especially if I sold a keyboard or two as I probably will.  Or an Oberheim OBx8.   What I can't do is internally justify it.   I just can't bring myself to pay that much for a keyboard.  And to be fair, a keyboard that will only be used live, because I have no plans to use hardware at home other than as a controller.  That is a really big factor actually...it means I have to look at my gigs and say "yep, something that expensive is worth risking for these."  I'm not a high-level dude playing big festivals or something.  I heard recordings of the band from phones sometimes and think "I could be playing a ****ing kazoo for all you can hear me in the mix".

All that said, I think most of us bond with instruments if not as much as a guitar player with their guitar   Some keyboards I've bonded with, some I haven't.  Build quality does matter to me, as shallow as that might sound, and as meaningless as that is to every other person that isn't me.  Not one person in the club cares if my keyboard has a wall wart or feels like cheap plastic.   But I tend to care.

I'm the same way about cars.  I can appreciate a nice car, but I have a hard time paying for one   And of course a new car is orders of magnitude more expensive than any Nord so it's a bit of a bad comparison!
 

[Paul Woodward]

Build quality is a real thing, I sold a YC61 and convinced myself the CK61 was just as good for my needs. However, I didn’t like the cheap plastic case, sliders, speakers and battery power, even though it actually has some better features. The YC was just a more ‘pro’ feeling board so I sold the CK and went back to YC. I bet few will tell the difference between the same pianos (or other sounds) on them, but I just get more enjoyment playing the YC

[AUSSIEKEYS]

54 minutes ago, Stokely said:

I really like Nords and I'm a (relatively) cheap bastard.
I heard recordings of the band from phones sometimes and think "I could be playing a ****ing kazoo for all you can hear me in the mix".
 

 

You are in luck ive heard that Nord is introducing a new product its called the "Red Kazoo"

 

Unforunately its has Nord pricing but size wise thats only relative for a "cheap bastard" hee hee

[Motif88]

FYI - Could have bought a Nord Stage 4-88 but went with the Montage M8x. The new layout, workflow, sub-display, poly aftertouch and USB audio/MIDI closed the deal for me. I had initial concerns about the GEX action but could not be more pleased.

In a perfect world, I would have both.

Cheers!

Department of Redundancy, Department.

[danskeys]

1 hour ago, Stokely said:

And to be fair, a keyboard that will only be used live, because I have no plans to use hardware at home other than as a controller. 

I have tried some software (Numa X Player and Logic Pro) instruments and no matter what I did to reduce latency (changing buffer sizes, etc.), I could always feel the disconnect between the keyboard and the software.  Are there any computer based instruments that have latency nearly as low as a hardware keyboard, or close enough for those sensitive to latency?

[AUSSIEKEYS]

Danskeys great read.

 

i checked out the first Stage when it came out as i was chasing a new board years ago but the keybed felt like i was hitting slugs. (Are they called slugs in US those snails without a house on its back?). It also was too heavy physically.

 

Anyway it turned me off them to this day. I know they have improved the keybed on them but now they are too common. (I hate running with the pack)

 

What initially attracted me was that it was an ensemble keyboard with easy access along the lines of my first synth a Korg Trident where it had a synth (with piano patches), a horn section, and a string section all in one with easy tweaking.

 

The red also was a big positive as id always wanted to paint a keyboard red since owning my Vox Jaguar.

 

But its weight and crap keybed for such an expensive keyboard turned me off them.

 

Ironically i bought instead a Privia PX330 simply because it felt very piano like and was lightweight to carry. I did miss out on the tweaking and zoning but i felt like i was playing a piano onstage not a sluggo. I guess the piano feel and portability was far more important to me

[danskeys]

1 minute ago, AUSSIEKEYS said:

Danskeys great read.

 

i checked out the first Stage when it came out as i was chasing a new board years ago but the keybed felt like i was hitting slugs. (Are they called slugs in US those snails without a house on its back?). It also was too heavy physically.

 

Anyway it turned me off them to this day. I know they have improved the keybed on them but now they are too common. (I hate running with the pack)

 

What initially attracted me was that it was an ensemble keyboard with easy access along the lines of my first synth a Korg Trident where it had a synth (with piano patches), a horn section, and a string section all in one with easy tweaking.

 

The red also was a big positive as id always wanted to paint a keyboard red since owning my Vox Jaguar.

 

But its weight and crap keybed for such an expensive keyboard turned me off them.

 

Ironically i bought instead a Privia PX330 simply because it felt very piano like and was lightweight to carry. I did miss out on the tweaking and zoning but i felt like i was playing a piano onstage not a sluggo. I guess the piano feel and portability was far more important to me

I can relate.  I originally bought the Stage 3 88, but when you add the relatively heavy case, it was just a few pounds too much for me to move.  Unfortunately my home "studio" is accessed via a ladder in my attic.  Not ideal.  So when I got the Stage 4, I bought the 73-note, which now also has the same Fatar TP/40 action as the 88.  The 5 pound reduction, along with a lighter case, and smaller dimensions make it moveable.  And I really like the feel.  But now I miss the 15 notes, especially at the bottom.  It's ALL about tradeoffs!

[The Piano Man]

I have owned three red keyboards:

- Stage 2

- Piano 2

- Stage 2 ex hp76

 

I liked all three best when playing with a nice pair of headphones.

 

However, for live gigs, I love my Kurzweil PC3a8 and also my old Technics stage pianos.

 

Find what works for you. 

[AUSSIEKEYS]

6 minutes ago, danskeys said:

I can relate.  I originally bought the Stage 3 88, but when you add the relatively heavy case, it was just a few pounds too much for me to move.  Unfortunately my home "studio" is accessed via a ladder in my attic.  Not ideal.  So when I got the Stage 4, I bought the 73-note, which now also has the same Fatar TP/40 action as the 88.  The 5 pound reduction, along with a lighter case, and smaller dimensions make it moveable.  And I really like the feel.  But now I miss the 15 notes, especially at the bottom.  It's ALL about tradeoffs!

 

Wow getting anything into an Attic must be so difficult. Im sitting here thinking of pulley systems to get gear up.

 

Here in Australia attics aren't common and basements virtually non existant so those in home lugging difficulties are not something we face here as much. 

 

So do you need to move the 73 up and down or keep it just for gigging downstairs.

 

Yes the bottom octave is what id want to keep. I used to use 73 and 76 note keyboards in the 90s but now id like to again but i find very few sold now with the lower octave 

 

I have a second Privia PX330 thats damaged on right hand end and a few chipped keys (and presently not working) and im intending cutting it down to a 73 or 76 (depending on how the keys are linked) but keeping the lower octave.

 

That means a non symmetrical fascia and one side having a speaker grille and the display offset to the right but having the lower octave appeals to me.

 

Im not sure how much weight i can save (especially as i have a 7 kg 88 note super light weight Numa Cocal 2x and it may not be worth the hassle but a new house move should leave me space to leave it on a work bench for as long as i need to experiment. 

[DroptopBroham]

2 hours ago, danskeys said:

.. the interface of the Nord Stage is second to none by orders of magnitude.  And that the sounds are simply wonderful, and the build quality is top notch, just makes it all worth the gigantic price tag.  I sit down at the Stage and it just *feels* so good from the moment I press the power button (a very satisfying button, I'll add.)  And yes, I upgraded to the Stage 4 less than a year later.

 

And for me, I hate the Nord Electro and Stage interfaces with a passion. The sounds are great but the interface is garbage. I had a Nord clonewheel in the past and liked it but am forced to play on an Electro at one rehearsal spot and it is terribly unintuitive. People say that Yamaha is bad but I'd much rather have my MODX+ interface. Not enough to bring it to rehearsal but playing on that Electro I just don't understand why anyone would get one, especially considering the price.

 

Paul mentions the CK and for something that does what the Stage and Electro do, the CK interface slays. The CK61 does feel cheap in the keys by the 88 is solid but so easy to use, only the organs are a let down but usability is leagues ahead of what Nord is doing. I also us a Stage regularly when sitting in and it's sad too.

 

I haven't had the opportunity to play with a YC but honestly the CK seems even better in terms of ease of use. If Yamaha could tighten up the B3 and Leslie and Chorus I would be ecstatic to leave the Mojo at home and gig on one board.

 

 

[Tusker]

Thanks to the OP for an insightful post, which only makes me want to take a second look at a Stage 4.

 

We all use our keyboards differently. I once gigged a Nord Modular, and while I fiercely loved the build quality and the attention to detail, I wasn't all that fond of the core synth sound. I was listening to some Youtube shootouts recently with other stage pianos recently though and found myself always enjoying the Stage 4. Its pianos and organs were the only ones that grabbed me like my software instruments do. Still not sure about the synth section. So, perhaps it's time for a second look and many thanks to the OP.

 

 

[cphollis]

I was very happy with my NS3.  I am now overjoyed with my NS4.

[RABid]

This is why we have a variety of successful keyboards from a variety of successful companies. My first Nord was a Nord Modular Rack. I loved that box. Not only was the hardware brilliant, but the manual and online documentation was a great educational resource for those starting with modular. Since then I've owned a Stage 2 compact, a Wave, and a lead A1. The Wave and Lead A1 were purchased at the same time, before I realized how much I hate the thumbstick as a pitch bend controller. While I can understand how some people would like it, it was a road block for my playing. They had to go. The Stage 2 was fine as a piano but I never warmed up the the organ and the synth felt incomplete. Is that Nord's fault? No. It is just a bad match up. We have a Stage 3 at church and it is perfect for the people who play it. I'm just a synth first guy that prefers separates.

[David Emm]

Its simple for me: does it wow me when I first play it? My old Korg 01Wfd had a semi-klacky keybed, but the sound was huge and a half, so I learned to live in the middle. If the sound speaks to you, the side points fade over time. I understand someone not going for Nord's pitch stick, but I'm a joystick guy if given the choice. Traditional Moog-y wheels just don't fall under my big ol' ham hock hands in my preferred manner. That's why we generally have a dozen synths or more. 

 

I could delete most of Logic's simpler synths and Sculpture without missing them at all, but the rest of my instruments are all important to my palette. Its also clunky for me to call Sampler "an" instrument, because its crammed with the fruits of 3rd party oddities, 2 Korg workstations and several E-mu modules. What a wunderful cheat. 

[CEB]

I have played most the Nord line.  I have never played a Wave or a Modular but, to the best of my knowledge I've played everything else.  Last thing I played was a Stage 3-88 in Urbana.

 

A small Swedish company who pays its employees a good living wage.  A company who has never committed economic  treason against the employees who built the company's reputation by offshoring final assembly to the lowest foreign bidder.  That right there makes me want to buy one.  But I never have.  The Stage wouldn't work for my gig unless I used some 3rd party application for set list and patch management.  The interface isn't geared for my kind of gigging.   That is irrelevant with Korg SetList. 

 

I've almost pulled the trigger twice on the Nord Piano,  most recently the Nord Piano 5 back in February.  I just could not bring myself to pay the $3,500 for stage piano after retiring from gigging in January, but some of the Nord Pianos you can load are great.   I wish they weren't red but that is their thing :).    Keyboard world is a richer place for having Nord around.    I've played a lot of double bills and worked a lot of shows with acts using their products.  They sound great in front house.

 

Who knows I almost bought another Les Paul last week on impulse.  I might still get that Piano 5.

[Justin Havu]

Glad the Stage 4 worked out for you.

 

I am not a Nord fan at all.  Every one I've ever laid hands on, I hated.  I can't connect with that brand at all.  Had to do a subbing gig in Boston last May, and suffer through playing a Piano 4 for three hours.  I could not get any of the pianos to sound the way I'm used to (CFX samples in the MODX), no matter what I did with EQ, or anything.  Hated the action, hated the interface, the experience was miserable.

[Stokely]

4 hours ago, danskeys said:

I have tried some software (Numa X Player and Logic Pro) instruments and no matter what I did to reduce latency (changing buffer sizes, etc.), I could always feel the disconnect between the keyboard and the software.  Are there any computer based instruments that have latency nearly as low as a hardware keyboard, or close enough for those sensitive to latency?

I think that latency would be down to the interface, not the instrument.  Or at least once I've had the interface set, all the instruments I've tried are ok.

I may not be the most sensitive to latency but I definitely have noticed it before on piano and guitar especially if the settings were off.  But once on I really don't feel (and definitely don't hear) anything different to playing my hardware.   Again we all may have different thresholds.   Even my ipad live was snappy enough on organ--which would be a killer if not--to use.

Neither of my most recent interfaces are anything expensive...a Behringer uphoria and now a Motu M4 at home, and the one on my Modx.

Latency and sound weren't my issue, I just like the simplicity of hardware live.  Not entirely logical and I know some people have far more complex non-computer setups with midi and audio cables going every which way, racks etc.     

 

[The Piano Man]

On a side note, I do think the Nords would have even more visual appeal if they didn’t display the number so prominently, if at all. Think Apple’s approach. I don’t want a big no.15 on the iPhone 15.

 

I think the Piano 5 should just be labelled “Nord Piano”, or even “Nord” They could pop the “5” in smaller font on the main panel. Maybe that’s just me but it is the approach on real acoustic pianos to just name the company and hide the model number somewhere else.

 

I guess I could just buy some red tape. I know there are much more important things to be concerned about!!!

[Paul Woodward]

10 hours ago, DroptopBroham said:

 

Paul mentions the CK and for something that does what the Stage and Electro do, the CK interface slays. The CK61 does feel cheap in the keys by the 88 is solid but so easy to use, only the organs are a let down but usability is leagues ahead of what Nord is doing. I also us a Stage regularly when sitting in and it's sad too.

 

I haven't had the opportunity to play with a YC but honestly the CK seems even better in terms of ease of use. If Yamaha could tighten up the B3 and Leslie and Chorus I would be ecstatic to leave the Mojo at home and gig on one board.

 

 

I have to reiterate that I managed to buy my (second) YC for less than the price of a CK so my comparisons are not based on the fact that the YC is usually double the price. The YC, unless you are a pro player needing the best organs, is not worth double the price and in that regard the CK is excellent value. Side by side for the same price there is no competition but Yamaha clearly listened to the feedback about the YC interface being difficult to navigate in the dark. I do prefer the YC’s real drawbars and rotary encoders, waterfall keybed (on this one) and more rugged construction (including metal jacks vs plastic on the CK). Well I did say construction does make a big difference for me. Oh, and who wants a fragile feeling wall wart….

The CK61 is best viewed as a ‘best of’ the Reface series (pianos, organs, synth) rather than a budget YC61.

I can imagine the successor to the YC might take a few features from the CK such as wave playback and the ability to stack any three sound engines, and the neater interface. Would also be great if they opened up the FM engine in the YC to allow synth programming from an iPad or computer which the Roland VR09 has done for a long time.

[elsongs]

I've been a Nord owner for 19 years now (Nord Electro 2, 2004-2019; Nord Stage 3, 2018-Present). Yes, the hands on, analog-like control of all of the parameters is a HUGE factor in its appeal. I don't have to save multiple versions of a patch when I can simply press one button and turn on an effect.

[Adam Burgess]

It took a good few weeks of getting out of Korg and Yamaha mode into finding out what a Stage 2 could REALLY do with some careful forethought and programming. Sold mine cause I had maybe two years of piano only gigs, and hated the waste of it sitting in a case. 

I loved that 88 and have been recently thinking about a new Stage. It popped up on a Facebook memory thing last week.

Positively slimmer, lighter, and shorter than the current Kronos 88. Having 16 parts on hand makes programming stuff easy, but, as above - with some careful programming, the Stage, especially the new ones, can do a lot.

[SteinwayB]

I cannot comment on the virtual analog aspects of the stage but I concur on the White Grand which I use on my NP3.  For me it is the best virtal AP I have ever played.  It crosses the critical threshold from "I can tolerate this sound" to "I love this sound".

[ProfD]

The FTEC (Finger to Ear Connection) coined right here at KC is a very real thing. 😁

 

KB players have an embarrassment of riches in terms of KB choices nowadays.  

 

Just a matter of choosing the *right* flavor according to personal need/want whether it's a synth, ROMpler, Digital Piano, MIDI controller, etc.

 

IMO, the *wrong* approach to buying an instrument is based on price. 

 

Granted, some folks have to weigh wallet against wants.  That's understandable. 

 

Marketing and nostalgia factor into the price of certain instruments. 

 

But, it doesn't make sense to compare instruments and their sounds and features based on sticker price.

 

Every instrument is designed to produce sounds and more importantly, be played.  The FTEC doesn't lie. 

 

As the OP discovered, digging into the Nord Stage opened up a new world of discovery to a musician returning to KB playing. 

 

It may not be the hokey pokey but it's definitely all about that FTEC.  Have a blast with the Nord Stage.  Welcome back to KB playing. 

 

Stick around here too.  Wealth of knowledge and talent among KB players. 

 

There's also a variety of discussion topics and some rants and humor too.😎

[Outkaster]

Soccer Mom

[danskeys]

3 hours ago, SteinwayB said:

I cannot comment on the virtual analog aspects of the stage but I concur on the White Grand which I use on my NP3.  For me it is the best virtal AP I have ever played.  It crosses the critical threshold from "I can tolerate this sound" to "I love this sound".

I keep trying other APs from Nord's library.  But I just keep coming back to the White Grand.  I watched one prominent YouTuber's look of disgust when he auditioned the White Grand in his review of one of the more recent Nords.  What I love about the character of the sound, he heard as massive imperfection.  To each their own!  As someone pointed out above, this is why there are so many other successful keyboards.  We have choices, and to each, their own.

[Ibarch]

Whilst Nords may be mighty fine instruments, I have never gelled with them. I simply don't like the feel of the keybeds. I'm not a fan of their controls either but maybe that is a lack of familiarity. But fixed split points? That does it. I'm out.