Introducing UB-Xa

[Baggypants]

On 11/27/2023 at 5:59 AM, TomKittel said:

We are all spoiled by cheap overseas throwaway goods we are flooded with these days.

Deepmind was designed mostly by a team in the UK. 

[RABid]

On 11/24/2023 at 2:26 PM, SteveCoscia said:

Getting older has made me less susceptible to GAS and its contagion.

LOL. I keep saying that I am looking to the future and building a rig that I want to take with me to the old age home. My current goal, a Fantom 7 and Montage Mx6. Got the Fantom. They don't make the MX6 yet. Don't really see a need for anything else.

[jerrythek]

7 hours ago, ABECK said:

The waveform in a DCO is still technically analog, it's just controlled digitally, hence the "dual analog oscillator" description.

Thanks, I know that. But I didn’t see Behringer stating DCO. Did a little more searching and found this:

 

So there you go… Radagast did recall correctly. 

[Radagast]

9 hours ago, ABECK said:

The waveform in a DCO is still technically analog, it's just controlled digitally, hence the "dual analog oscillator" description.

The design of a DCO is technically an analog design.  The pitch of the analog design is pitch controlled digitally.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Digitally_controlled_oscillator

[ChazKeys]

Well the wait goes on.....  but there are hopeful signs. New version of Synthtribe with support for UB-Xa plus an updated and expanded English manual:

 

https://mediadl.musictribe.com/media/PLM/data/docs/0722-AAF/FACE-PRIN-PH1_M_BE_0722-AAF_UB-Xa_A4_EN.pdf

 

Big section on Atrophy settings plus CCs and Mod Matrix. It's a good read if you like that kind of thing

One of the Mod Destinations is: Churn (multiplies the Butter modulation)  

 

[Radagast]

If you really want to see some people’s heads explode, watch what happens if Behringer ever clones a Hammond.  But of course every other clonewheel will get a pass.

[kpl1228]

[Jim Alfredson]

2 hours ago, Radagast said:

If you really want to see some people’s heads explode, watch what happens if Behringer ever clones a Hammond.  But of course every other clonewheel will get a pass.

 

False equivalency.

[K K]

3 hours ago, Radagast said:

If you really want to see some people’s heads explode, watch what happens if Behringer ever clones a Hammond.

Good one ! DEFCON 2 will be declared and there will be a new forum for all outraged purists to complain as they wish for the next 25 years .

[CHarrell]

1 hour ago, Jim Alfredson said:

 

False equivalency.

 

I've said it before, I'm not a fan of Behringer for several reasons, but I'm genuinely curious, what makes it a false equivalency here?

[David Emm]

57 minutes ago, Jim Alfredson said:

False equivalency.

 

Agreed. There are a lot of those about. The "clonewheels" have all been honest attempts to escape the sheer weight of a Hammond. Even Korg's original CX-3 was a solid 1979 analog approach, with a 'digital' in 2001. In my observation, Hammond players are extra-serious about feel and tone. Its hard to imagine them tolerating a bad build or spotty service. If you know yer history, you may recall Harley-Davidson motorcycle owners sneering at early Japanese bikes as "rice burners." I have to grin a little and feel as if Keith & Jimmy Smith would have that kind of sneer for a Bammond. 😁  

[Anderton]

On 11/27/2023 at 9:14 AM, Stokely said:

Taking what ProfD says further, I'd love to have a bunch of analog purists put some money up on a blind test with digital keyboards and VSTs.

 

Taking what Stokely says one step further, I'd love to have a bunch of regular people who just happen to love music listen to three mixes of the same song: one with analog synths, one with virtual analog, and one with all-digital, programmed to obtain as similar a sound as possible. See if they care even the tiniest bit.

 

I believe we choose gear to make us happy, not the audience. But that's important, because the more we love to play, the more likely it is we'll create music - not so much sounds - that people enjoy. 

[RABid]

7 hours ago, Anderton said:

I believe we choose gear to make us happy, not the audience.

So true. I’ll add that for the audience I think the mix is more important than the instruments.

[CyberGene]

7 hours ago, Anderton said:

I believe we choose gear to make us happy, not the audience. But that's important, because the more we love to play, the more likely it is we'll create music - not so much sounds - that people enjoy. 

That's an excellent point. Sometimes we tend to overanalyze things in isolation (I am guilty too) and we can easily declare how yes, in a blind test a VA will be indistinguishable from a real analog synth. Hence (the wrong conclusion) how analog synths are not worth it. And again, I am guilty and sometimes fall for this same way of thinking. But then I remember how I replaced the aluminum cheeks of my Hydrasynth with hand-made wooden cheeks from pear wood made by a very skilled Italian guy and I suddenly started liking its sound more 😀 Because I love how it looks and it makes me feel good and when I feel good, things sound good to me. Silly perhaps.

[Jon E]

12 hours ago, David Emm said:

The "clonewheels" have all been honest attempts to escape the sheer weight of a Hammond.

I can assure you that the Pari plasticwheel I bought in 1977 was just as heavy as a real L122 😀

[Jim Alfredson]

12 hours ago, CHarrell said:

 

I've said it before, I'm not a fan of Behringer for several reasons, but I'm genuinely curious, what makes it a false equivalency here?

 

Because a vintage tonewheel organ is just that; an electromechanical instrument using tonewheels rotating beneath electromagnetic pickups and amplified with tubes. Not one modern company is making anything remotely like that today. All the clonewheels currently in production are digital emulations of that analog process. 

This is also why plug-ins are a false equivalence. They are digital emulations of analog synths, not circuit by circuit recreations of those synths.

 

That is not what B**heringer is doing with their clones. They are attempting to reverse engineer / recreate the exact analog circuits of the synths in question. And as I've said numerous times, my personal beef with the company isn't even really about cloning the old synths. It's more about them copying currently in-production gear and their overall business practices. 

 

But yet again... I didn't bring any of that up in my initial reply in this thread. All I wrote is that so far, according to the YT videos I've watched, the UB-Xa does not sound like a real Oberheim. It's missing that air in the upper end and, for lack of a better description, the wide, organic quality of the sound in general. And for that I'm lazily labeled a 'hater', accused of bias (as if any of us is truly bias free), and ridiculed ("Clonewheel Jim has spoken"). 

[Radagast]

12 hours ago, David Emm said:

 

Agreed. There are a lot of those about. The "clonewheels" have all been honest attempts to escape the sheer weight of a Hammond. Even Korg's original CX-3 was a solid 1979 analog approach, with a 'digital' in 2001. In my observation, Hammond players are extra-serious about feel and tone. Its hard to imagine them tolerating a bad build or spotty service. If you know yer history, you may recall Harley-Davidson motorcycle owners sneering at early Japanese bikes as "rice burners." I have to grin a little and feel as if Keith & Jimmy Smith would have that kind of sneer for a Bammond. 😁  

One could then say the UB-XA is an “honest attempt” to recreate a synth no longer in production for people who can’t find a used one.  People can use pretzel logic all they want to, but a clone is a clone.

[ABECK]

1 hour ago, Radagast said:

One could then say the UB-XA is an “honest attempt” to recreate a synth no longer in production for people who can’t find a used one.  People can use pretzel logic all they want to, but a clone is a clone.

Extra credit for the Steely Dan drop!

[Anderton]

6 hours ago, CyberGene said:

But then I remember how I replaced the aluminum cheeks of my Hydrasynth with hand-made wooden cheeks from pear wood made by a very skilled Italian guy and I suddenly started liking its sound more 😀 Because I love how it looks and it makes me feel good and when I feel good, things sound good to me. Silly perhaps.

 

Not silly at all!! Because of the way our brains are wired, the right brain responds more to visual stimuli. That's the more "creative" hemisphere (on oversimplification on the Nobel prize-winning work on hemisphere differentiation, but still fundamentally correct). 

 

Sometimes I've thought a DAW's "help" button should trigger a beautiful, ever-changing kaleisdoscopic display to kick-start your right brain 

[Jim Alfredson]

5 hours ago, Radagast said:

One could then say the UB-XA is an “honest attempt” to recreate a synth no longer in production for people who can’t find a used one.  People can use pretzel logic all they want to, but a clone is a clone.

Except it is in production. The OB-X8 has all the original OB-Xa patches and it sounds just like an OB-Xa. 

[ProfD]

21 minutes ago, Jim Alfredson said:

Except it is in production. The OB-X8 has all the original OB-Xa patches and it sounds just like an OB-Xa. 

Brotha Jim is right.  The OB-X8 *is* an Obi...maybe not a Wan Kenobi.🤣😎

[ABECK]

6 hours ago, Radagast said:

One could then say the UB-XA is an “honest attempt” to recreate a synth no longer in production for people who can’t find afford a used or new one.  People can use pretzel logic all they want to, but a clone is a clone.

Fixed

[CrossRhodes]

On 11/29/2023 at 4:56 AM, Jim Alfredson said:

 

Because a vintage tonewheel organ is just that; an electromechanical instrument using tonewheels rotating beneath electromagnetic pickups and amplified with tubes. Not one modern company is making anything remotely like that today. All the clonewheels currently in production are digital emulations of that analog process. 

This is also why plug-ins are a false equivalence. They are digital emulations of analog synths, not circuit by circuit recreations of those synths.

 

That is not what B**heringer is doing with their clones. They are attempting to reverse engineer / recreate the exact analog circuits of the synths in question. And as I've said numerous times, my personal beef with the company isn't even really about cloning the old synths. It's more about them copying currently in-production gear and their overall business practices. 

 

But yet again... I didn't bring any of that up in my initial reply in this thread. All I wrote is that so far, according to the YT videos I've watched, the UB-Xa does not sound like a real Oberheim. It's missing that air in the upper end and, for lack of a better description, the wide, organic quality of the sound in general. And for that I'm lazily labeled a 'hater', accused of bias (as if any of us is truly bias free), and ridiculed ("Clonewheel Jim has spoken"). 

 

Why do you write "B**heringer"? Is it like a "He who must not be named" thing, or are you afraid of prosecution from Uli?

[Radagast]

1 hour ago, CrossRhodes said:

 

Why do you write "B**heringer"? Is it like a "He who must not be named" thing, or are you afraid of prosecution from Uli?

Beetlejuice Beetlejuice Beetlejuice. 

[ChazKeys]

Just ordered one from Andertons. Probably won't get it until February/March but the introductory price is lower than I expected. 

 

https://www.andertons.co.uk/behringer-ub-xa

 

 

 

 

[Bill H.]

For those of us in the US, here it is at Sweetwater:

 

https://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/BehrUBXA--behringer-ub-xa-16-voice-bi-timbral-polyphonic-analog-synthesizer

[Stokely]

Won't be getting this for various reasons, but my hope is that it gets other companies moving on poly aftertouch.


 

[Josh Paxton]

19 hours ago, CrossRhodes said:

Why do you write "B**heringer"? Is it like a "He who must not be named" thing, or are you afraid of prosecution from Uli?

 

SSSSHHHHHHH!!!!!!!! He'll hear you!

 

Seriously though, I look forward to the inevitable blind shootout videos comparing it to the OB-X8.

[TomKittel]

I don't understand the hype about this Behringer clone. The demos I heard so far don't sound anything like the original. Even a Matrix 1000 played through a good FX unit sounds more authetic to my ears. The Prophet REV2 can also produce pretty good Oberheim sounds:

 

 

[RABid]

I would like to try one and test the dual levers. I loved them on the Chroma and have been wishing for a keyboard with dual levers ever since I lost mine in a fire. If the levers on the UB-Xa work well and are programmable I might consider getting one just for that feature.  The OB-X8 also has dual levers but at this stage in life I cannot justify $5000 for the OB-X8.