Yamaha Montage M - power switch physically flips "off" on its own!!!

[tapes]

I'm pretty sure my original 1st Gen Montage did this as well? I've got the EU version. It's spooky when it happens at first, but you can disable it.

[stoken6]

9 hours ago, Julius D Majestic Studios said:

Guys, the auto off is not the issue.  I know and understand what annauto off function is.  But I'm my experience it's been a "soft" off... Vs the switch manually flipping on its own.  It doesn't do it when I turn the feature off.  I simply wanted to know if ANY ONE ELSE HAD A MONTAGE M THAT WAS DOING THE SAME THING. 

Worth a requote. Julius is asking "I expected auto-off to be a "soft off" - is anyone else's auto-off a "hard off" (where the switch moves)?". There are lots of replies (like mine) saying "yes, auto-off is a thing". 

 

To be fair, I haven't seen anyone saying "no, my auto-off is a soft off"

 

Cheers, Mike.

 

 

[CEB]

My SKX does this sometimes. Less than it used to. I thought  it is a faulty rocker switch.   It seems to be a mechanical issue.  It hasn’t done it at a gig though. 
 

PS - Ha!  The manual say it auto shuts off after 30 minutes of non use.  

[Delaware Dave]

if you read the manual it says auto-off is disabled by default.  So unless someone turned the feature 'on' no one would even experience the auto off experience and if they did they may not even realize the switch is mechanically being set to off.  i would venture to guess that < 5% of the users intentionally would turn this feature on if the default is off.  i would also venture to guess that more users would turn the feature off if the default were on since it can be an annoyance.  i for one would turn the feature off if it were defaulted on but would not turn it on if the feature were defaulted off therefore i would not even know that the turning off also flips the switch. As the feature is defaulted to disabled i wonder how many users are even aware of the feature? i can also understand if the switch were auto flipped off that i might think that the switch may be broken. 

[Keyboardplayer]

My Yamaha Genos also has an Auto Power Off feature in the Utility Menu. It also has an Auto Power Saving feature which dims the OLED sub-display after a pre-determined amount of time set by the User. As a note of precaution, the first Genos I bought, I didn't realize it had an Auto Power Off feature. By default, Yamaha set the Auto Power Off to like 30 minutes if I'm not mistaken. When transferring files or actively using the keyboard e.g. button presses, playing the keys, etc., it's not supposed to turn off at all, only when the keyboard is 'idle' for a pre-determined amount of time. I was in the process of transferring files, and it turned off anyway. Apparently, Yamaha fixed the anomaly with an OS update, but that's beside the point. It messed up the internal SSD, which prevented me from accessing the files on the internal SSD. I had to return it to Guitar Center and ordered another one. As soon as I got the new one set up, I immediately disabled the Auto Power Off feature. Lesson learned. Something of that sort probably wouldn't happen on the Montage M I would hope. Yamaha was aware of the situation, since I called Yamaha USA headquarters and told them all about it back in 2017.   

[EscapeRocks]

Once again, Julius is not asking about the auto-shut off function itself. 
 

He’s asking if it’s normal for the on/off switch to PHYSICALLY move when the auto-shut off happens. 
 

@Julius D Majestic Studios

My new Montage does not exhibit the behavior. 
I turned on the auto-shut off feature and waited.  
At the specified time, the Montage M powered down.  
The On/Off switch, itself, did not move. 
 

[FatFingers]

As I alluded to above, the power switch on my Kurz did physically move. But to confirm the details of this thread, I just looked at the setting on my new Montage M and changed the automatic power off function to 5 minutes.  I timed it, and at exactly 5 minutes, the switch physically moved with an audible 'pop' or 'click' and shut off power.  Just like circuit breakers that have flipped. (And it wasn't easy depriving myself of waiting 5 minutes to play this new board again, but going to look for a beer helped tide me over.)

 

My Montage M arrived with the Auto Off function set to 'off'.  Not sure how or why the Montage M Julius has apparently arrived with this function set to 'on'.  But my Montage isn't the first new board I've had where it arrived in a condition that was set to turn off after a predetermined time.

 

David, my question to you:  if the power switch didn't move after your Montage M powered down, exactly what did you do to power it up again?  The only way I know to turn the board on is to move the rocker switch to 'on'.

[Baggypants]

If there is no power to the board wil the switch stay located in the "on" position. Or does it immediatly flick back to "off"?

[Adam Burgess]

My Roland Integra is a 'soft off', where the power switch stays 'in', so needs a double press to turn it back on.
I 'think' my Kronos 2 physically stays 'on', also - even though the switch definitely has more 'electronics' to it!

Always turn these things off, anyway…

[Julius D Majestic Studios]

Hey guys.... I talked to a Yamaha Customer Support rep today and I sent them a link to my video.  They didn't think it was supposed to behave the way mine is.  But they escalated it to get the answer... This is the email that I got back.  

 

It's working properly.  So for the guys who don't experience this... I'm not sure what to say now. 

[mate stubb]

We have a mystery.

[Baggypants]

8 hours ago, Julius D Majestic Studios said:

Hey guys.... I talked to a Yamaha Customer Support rep today and I sent them a link to my video.  They didn't think it was supposed to behave the way mine is.  But they escalated it to get the answer... This is the email that I got back.  

 

It's working properly.  So for the guys who don't experience this... I'm not sure what to say now. 

The obvious answer is their auto-off is broken.

 

Or they're just so dull they've never noticed the switch flick over. Maybe they're a bit deaf and forgetful. Maybe they always run away from the room before the auto-off triggers? Who can fathom these strange inscrutable people.

[Julius D Majestic Studios]

On 11/7/2023 at 6:23 PM, Motif88 said:

The instructions are in the Montage M Quick Guide page 31

RTFM!

Wow.... I didn't realize stuff like this happened here on this forum.  YIKES.  Sorry, if my question offended you.  Oh never mind, based on the response, you didn't read the question.  lol.  Have a good day sir!!!

[Julius D Majestic Studios]

On 11/7/2023 at 7:27 PM, benj2017 said:

Dude, he’s not asking how to set the feature, he’s asking about the button popping out which is not in the manual. Calm down…
 

Now, I for sure missed that last part about after the auto power off has been carried out that we can use a standby/on switch to restore the power.  That's pretty nice. 

[mate stubb]

What a completely unnecessary and unwelcome nanny state feature. Now we have a simple reliable $2 switch replaced by some elaborate mechanical relay deal which can't possibly be as reliable. Geez. I'll decide when my keyboard powers on and off by myself, thanks.

[AnotherScott]

18 minutes ago, matted stump said:

What a completely unnecessary and unwelcome nanny state feature. Now we have a simple reliable $2 switch replaced by some elaborate mechanical relay deal which can't possibly be as reliable. Geez. I'll decide when my keyboard powers on and off by myself, thanks.

I believe the EU requires that gear be designed to switch off when not in use, to conserve energy. The "feature" can be disabled by the user, but the manufacturer must support it.

[Reezekeys]

Haven't read every post in this thread so I'm ready for an online drubbing if this has been mentioned, and it's only an aside - but I can imagine a scenario like a theatre production where a sub comes in to play this keyboard and the auto-off setting is somehow turned on... and there's a break in the music where there's no synth needed for a few minutes - and it shuts off just as you're about to start playing it again! This seems like such an unnecessary feature. I also wonder about the reliability of the relay that actuates (or more specifically, de-actuates!) the switch.

[TJ Cornish]

12 minutes ago, AnotherScott said:

I believe the EU requires that gear be designed to switch off when not in use, to conserve energy. The "feature" can be disabled by the user, but the manufacturer must support it.

I’m grateful it at least can still be turned off. I’m not looking forward to a world where we have to work out something like this:

 

 

 

[mate stubb]

15 minutes ago, AnotherScott said:

I believe the EU requires that gear be designed to switch off when not in use, to conserve energy. The "feature" can be disabled by the user, but the manufacturer must support it.

 

My Casio supports this with a stateless momentary push power switch. It goes off, and you push the button again to turn back on. It's a better solution than physically moving a switch with a failure prone relay. Sorry, the old manufacturing engineer in me is triggered.

[TJ Cornish]

34 minutes ago, matted stump said:

 

My Casio supports this with a stateless momentary push power switch. It goes off, and you push the button again to turn back on. It's a better solution than physically moving a switch with a failure prone relay. Sorry, the old manufacturing engineer in me is triggered.

There is some vampire current in a soft power button compared to a mechanically actuated hard power switch, but 100mW is better than 30W or whatever the Montage draws when fully on.

 

An interesting thing on the Fantom - it has a mechanical push button that detents on and pops out for off, but there is some magic that happens on that board as well - it takes about a second after you push the button for the keyboard to shut down. Roland has advised using the keyboard’s button for power instead of using an external switch as apparently there is some amount of graceful shutdown that is done when you use the Fantom’s button which doesn’t happen if you cut power externally.

[Delaware Dave]

3 hours ago, TJ Cornish said:

 

 

 

 

Back in the day when i worked at Andersen Consulting (now Accenture) a programmer wrote a program that required an external "enter" key to be hit on the keyboard at the end of every transaction.  We needed to run the correction program for a few hundred thousand transactions so we put the program on a half dozen computers and ran it over the weekend; but wait, who was going to hit the enter key on 6 computers manually?  we used a similar duck-like gizmo on all six computers and got the transactions run over the weekend...

[Motif88]

On 11/10/2023 at 11:47 AM, AnotherScott said:

I believe the EU requires that gear be designed to switch off when not in use, to conserve energy. The "feature" can be disabled by the user, but the manufacturer must support it.

Because the unelected EU regulators know best how to control our lives… 

[DeltaJockey]

The way I see it, if the EU mandated the switchoff function without the ability of the user to disable it, that to me would be controlling our lives. As long as the user is able to disable it, then I don't have a problem with that. I've had my Kronos, and the previous Montage for years, have never changed the setting on this, and have not once ever had it switch off on me. I don't see any difference in the requirement for monitors to go into power down mode, except that we don't have a physical clunk happening, it just goes to sleep.. Controlling our lives is all about not allowing us to configure to our needs. So far, historically, I point the finger at Apple for this, but even they seem to be improving their ear to what customers want, albeit at a snail's pace!

[Delaware Dave]

14 hours ago, DeltaJockey said:

The way I see it, if the EU mandated the switchoff function without the ability of the user to disable it, that to me would be controlling our lives. As long as the user is able to disable it, then I don't have a problem with that. I've had my Kronos, and the previous Montage for years, have never changed the setting on this, and have not once ever had it switch off on me. I don't see any difference in the requirement for monitors to go into power down mode, except that we don't have a physical clunk happening, it just goes to sleep.. Controlling our lives is all about not allowing us to configure to our needs. So far, historically, I point the finger at Apple for this, but even they seem to be improving their ear to what customers want, albeit at a snail's pace!

going 'to sleep' and powering off are two different things especially if you are in the middle of an edit or doing a build and step away from the  keyboard to come back and find that your work was lost.  It should be defaulted off on all keyboards and therefore if you get burned with the auto-power off then you have no one to blame but yourself.  At least on this model yamaha defaulted it off.

i cant believe that we are still discussing this topic.  The OP had his answeer about 4 days ago.

[stoken6]

20 hours ago, Motif88 said:

unelected EU regulators

As a statement of fact: Members of the European Parliament are elected every 5 years. 

 

This forum is not the place for a longer debate about European Union politics, so I'll stop here.

 

Cheers, Mike.

[Finale]

On 11/7/2023 at 8:21 AM, Julius D Majestic Studios said:

The power switch automatically flips from on to off.  Like a ghost does it😂😂.

 

Hi there, I'm late to the party but I can confirm this is also a feature on the Korg Kronos. So if the Auto-Power Off is set to a given time, the switch physically goes to the off position and rather loudly.    This works using a timed "kill switch" circuit which sends a signal for that purpose. The machine also needs a special type of on/off switch. On the Kronos though, you hear 30 beeps during the last 30 seconds to warn you, as a last chance to push on a key to cancel the kill switch signal. 

[Julius D Majestic Studios]

30 minutes ago, K K said:

 

Hi there, I'm late to the party but I can confirm this is also a feature on the Korg Kronos. So if the Auto-Power Off is set to a given time, the switch physically goes to the off position and rather loudly.    This works using a timed "kill switch" circuit which sends a signal for that purpose. The machine also needs a special type of on/off switch. On the Kronos though, you hear 30 beeps during the last 30 seconds to warn you, as a last chance to push on a key to cancel the kill switch signal. 

Yeah Yamaha has confirmed that it's working as intended.  As well versed as I am with Kronos, I never owned a Kronos 2.  So I didn't know that until the last few weeks.  But good to know now!

[Motif88]

7 hours ago, stoken6 said:

As a statement of fact: Members of the European Parliament are elected every 5 years. 

 

This forum is not the place for a longer debate about European Union politics, so I'll stop here.

 

Cheers, Mike.

Clearly, missing the point...in line with this entire post.

[Motif88]

JDM may be a nice guy but he is clearly pushing for youtube feeds/followers with shorts and made up “controversies” to feed the same. I get it, but…

[Threadslayer]

On 11/7/2023 at 7:08 AM, Julius D Majestic Studios said:

they went and changed their setting and sat and waited and it never shut off

What a fun and rewarding way to spend an afternoon