Hammond M-Solo

[pjd]

Gonna replace my Reface YC with this. I've squeezed a lot of value out of the Reface, but its three octave keyboard and crap rotary fast setting have got to go.

 

I use the Reface YC mainly for quick in, quick out rehearsals.

 

Watching that price and availability date carefully -- pj

 

[Old Music Guy]

Sounds like a Farfisa.

 

[timwat]

On 10/6/2023 at 10:59 AM, pjd said:

Watching that price and availability date carefully -- pj

 

 

I'm seeing $1295 preorder from a certain online retailer in Wisconsin.

[konaboy]

that's really steep, but not unsurprising.

did we establish if you could connect external midi controller for lower manual?

[AnotherScott]

2 hours ago, konaboy said:

that's really steep, but not unsurprising.

did we establish if you could connect external midi controller for lower manual?

 

 

Based on the downloadable owner's manual, there's no facility for adding a second manual.

[Adan]

It's designed to be part of a rig, so the logic of no second manual makes perfect sense to me.  The player who wants a second manual also probably wants waterfall keys and other stuff not available on the M.

 

Objectively speaking, $1300 is steep for putting existing software in what appears to be a budget-y assemblage of hardware.  However, though I  have several quibbles with the product, I give Hammond credit for identifying a useful niche and being the first to fill it.  If you want a 4-octave superlight clone, this is it. (Maybe you didn't know you wanted one, but now you're starting to see the utility of it.)

 

The competition at this point is 5-octave clones, like the Crumar Mojo at $1500.  The Mojo is a much better bang for the buck, but it's also 4 times as heavy and bulky.

 

Or, as mentioned, the competition is the CK61 and VK09, which are also both better bang for buck, but still  about 50% heavier and bulkier. I'd guess the M-Solo would beat both of those in a clone shootout, but of course that's always a matter of opinion.

[AnotherScott]

21 minutes ago, Adan said:

It's designed to be part of a rig, so the logic of no second manual makes perfect sense to me.  The player who wants a second manual also probably wants waterfall keys and other stuff not available on the M.

I agree with that second sentiment (and all that followed). And I can see other reasons for not supporting a second manual. It could further assure it doesn't unnecessarily cannibalize sales of pricier models. It could contribute to keeping its own build cost down, i.e. there would have to be some additional front panel control to enable/configure it, and there might need to be additional processing capability than what they've built into this model. (I'm thinking about how the Kurzweil and Fantom tonewheel models only permit single instances... any upper/lower splits need to use sampled organ sounds for the second manual. If no more processing power was needed, it's hard to see why they wouldn't let you load two instances.)

 

That said, the fact that it is (as you say) designed to be part of a rig, to me, in a way actually argues for the desirability of second-manual support. Because compared to someone who buys an SK Pro for example, it is that much more likely that the M-Solo buyer already has another keyboard he intends to use along with it, so he wouldn't even have to buy/bring anything else to get second manual functionality (other than a MIDI cable). And the other keyboard will almost certainly have 61+ keys, besides. I mean, the board is sitting right there. To me, it's practically begging you to let it connect. 🙂 (Even more so if your other board doesn't have a hammer action... but either way.) But like I said, I can understand why it is what it is.

[Baggypants]

On 10/1/2023 at 12:51 AM, kenheeter said:

Sure sounds cheesy in some of the demos.....

So it is a real Hammond!

[Joe Muscara]

So am I right in realizing that maybe they called this "M" because it's more like the M series Hammond spinets, which had 44-note manuals (albeit starting with a low F), diving board keys, and one set of drawbars per manual?

 

Not that anyone is shopping for a modern M, but it seems to parallel and using a different letter makes it clear that it's a different series than the S and X models they currently make.

[konaboy]

such a shame about the lack of external manual. it would cost nothing to add support for it in the firmware, and would make it more viable to more players, even jazz organists. although you can comp one handed, or rip a solo on the 49, you can't play both hands bass and comp, at the same time.

 

i guess you could midi up an external 61 keyboard and use it instead of the 49, but then it's a useless form factor and might as well have been a desktop sound module format.

[AnotherScott]

42 minutes ago, konaboy said:

such a shame about the lack of external manual. it would cost nothing to add support for it in the firmware

It's not necessarily true that it would cost nothing to add that support... see my post 3 before yours.

 

42 minutes ago, konaboy said:

would make it more viable to more players

That's a double-edged sword for them, if making it more viable more players means that, as a result, those buyers decide not to purchase one of their higher end models.

 

42 minutes ago, konaboy said:

although you can comp one handed, or rip a solo on the 49, you can't play both hands bass and comp, at the same time.
 

i guess you could midi up an external 61 keyboard and use it instead of the 49, but then it's a useless form factor and might as well have been a desktop sound module format.

Like everything, it's not for everyone, and the people who prefer a sound module do have options (currently at least Mojo Desktop, Viscount EXP, Ferrofish). But while there are some users where that will make sense, others will prefer having the keys, whether to use them all the time or just sometimes. But also, in this case, there could be a particular benefit to using its own keys, for the multi-contact simulation. If you want a comp hand and a solo hand, you could still MIDI up that 61... it would share the same drawbar registration, as if the M-Solo itself had 61 keys, but you could still use the M-Solo for one of your hands, and it would have the multi-trigger effect.

[stoken6]

+1 @Adan and @AnotherScott. There's a niche here, but it's priced at $999, not $1300. This is made for sitting on top of a stage piano at a blues gig or similar. If you want dual manuals, you'll buy a SK2/X or XK5 with XLK5. Or a Mojo, Viscount...

 

Conversely, I think it's a shame that the MSolo can't act as a *controller*, to play a second voice of the stage piano it's currently sitting on. The kind of player who wants to add a Hammond to their single-board rig probably also wants two non-organ sounds simultaneously. Hammond have a good track record of building controller features into their clonewheels. Again, perhaps it's omitted here to differentiate their higher-end offerings - but it makes that niche look narrower and narrower.

 

Cheers, Mike.

[CEB]

At least the M-Solo is giving you a few extra keys.  M spinets only had 44 keys.  This thing gives you 49 keys. 

[AnotherScott]

13 minutes ago, stoken6 said:

I think it's a shame that the MSolo can't act as a *controller*, to play a second voice of the stage piano it's currently sitting on.

Actually, it can. While it doesn't have the more advanced controller options of their other models, you can at least do that much. Set it to transmit on, say, MIDI channel 6 (that's the highest channel it supports). Connect its MIDI Out to your other board's MIDI In, and it will play whatever sound you have assigned to channel 6 of that board. Any sound selection, octave transposition, etc. has to be done on the host board, so it's not as flexible as what the other Hammonds can do, but I think this could still often handle the scenario you're talking about. To silence the organ's own sound, you can use one of your user preset locations to store a silent sound (e.g. drawbars 000 000 000), or less elegantly, if you don't want to use that up, you can turn just turn down the Hammond's volume knob.

[stoken6]

Thanks Scott - I wasn't sure about the MSolo's caapbility for user presets. 

 

Your solution does require a host board that can selectively choose to listen/ignore MID Channel 6, of course. 

 

Cheers, Mike.

[AnotherScott]

10 minutes ago, stoken6 said:

Your solution does require a host board that can selectively choose to listen/ignore MID Channel 6, of course. 

 

Right... or failing that, if your board insists on responding to channel 6 with a sound, you could put a "silent" or muted sound there, on patches where you don't want the Hammond to trigger anything. There's also the possibility of inserting a MIDI "kill switch" and flipping that in or out depending on whether or not you want the Hammond to trigger the other board.

[stoken6]

15 minutes ago, AnotherScott said:

Right... or failing that, if your board insists on responding to channel 6 with a sound, you could put a "silent" or muted sound there, on patches where you don't want the Hammond to trigger anything.

Agree with everything you say. The MSolo can't transmit a program change, can it? You'd need to select the "silent"/muted patch separately on your host board.

 

Cheers, Mike.

[AnotherScott]

25 minutes ago, stoken6 said:

Agree with everything you say. The MSolo can't transmit a program change, can it? You'd need to select the "silent"/muted patch separately on your host board.

 

Right. Either that, or if you're using something like Set List Maker on your smartphone or whatever, that could be used to send the appropriate program changes for the song at hand. For multi-timbral boards, you should be able to use that to invoke both the sound(s) you want the other board to be playing from its own keys, as well as (using my previous example) the sound you want to set for channel 6, for the Hammond to play.

[Fleer]

It’s called M to be on top of the Montage M. 

[Radagast]

Has anyone talked about the Poly synth included?  I think the drawbars are used to edit synth parameters.  That sounds like the Numa Compact 2X.

[pjd]

14 hours ago, Fleer said:

It’s called M to be on top of the Montage M. 

 

Cute. 😃

 

I remember reading some stuff on the Japanese Hammond Suzuki site, but never thought to pass the info along.

 

The Hammond Suzuki site separates slab organs into three categories: drawbar, stage and combo. The M-solo is the "drawbar" keyboard. In one sentence, "A compact collection of functions that make it easy to use a second keyboard along with an electronic piano." Period. I don't think this is going to grow into "stage" or "combo" territory functionally.

 

The allusion to the old M series is intentional. Quoting, "The "M" in M-solo comes from the small B-3 "M series" with 44 keys and two stages manufactured in the 1950s and 1960s. The name was chosen because of the fact that it is held in place, and because it is intended to be played with one hand."

 

[Google translate]

 

Hope this clarifies -- pj
 

[niacin]

 

[Zenmojo]

On 10/8/2023 at 4:32 AM, konaboy said:

that's really steep, but not unsurprising.

did we establish if you could connect external midi controller for lower manual?

You cannot.  It's monotimbral, upper manual only.  You can play the upper manual via MIDI, which you just might want to do because the keyboard on the M-Solo is absolutely terrible.  Plastic synth keys.  I wasn't expecting an amazing waterfall keyboard, but this keyboard is just junk.  If it were $899 I'd live with it, but for $1300 it's just not worth it.

[Zenmojo]

On 10/8/2023 at 7:48 AM, Adan said:

 If you want a 4-octave superlight clone, this is it. (Maybe you didn't know you wanted one, but now you're starting to see the utility of it.)

This is almost it.  If it were a 4-octave version of the XK-1c, that would have been AWESOME.  But the keyboard on the thing makes it just a toy. I get that they were trying to make it as light as possible, but it would have been much better if they had used a better keyboard even if it added a couple extra lbs.  Sad.

[Adan]

1 hour ago, Zenmojo said:

the keyboard on the M-Solo is absolutely terrible.  Plastic synth keys.  I wasn't expecting an amazing waterfall keyboard, but this keyboard is just junk.  

 

Have you played it? All clones have plastic keys, as do real Hammonds. The MSolo has diving board keys, not waterfall. That does make a difference for smears. Aside from that, it feels a lot like the keys on other clones. 

 

I agree $1300 is overpriced, but then I think all Hammond products are overpriced.  The MSolo isn't more overpriced, proportionally, than other clones bearing the Hammond name.

 

Got mine for $1100, which I'd say is still about $100 overpriced.

 

[Delaware Dave]

2 hours ago, Zenmojo said:

You cannot.  It's monotimbral, upper manual only.  You can play the upper manual via MIDI, which you just might want to do because the keyboard on the M-Solo is absolutely terrible.  Plastic synth keys.  I wasn't expecting an amazing waterfall keyboard, but this keyboard is just junk.  If it were $899 I'd live with it, but for $1300 it's just not worth it.

Well, if you're going to play it via midi you might as well just buy an organ module for alot less money.

[pjd]

Just when I thought it was safe, there's the video from Ujiie-san! 🤩 Nice to see he has the same piles of pens and litter in his studio...

 

I agree, if the street price was lower, they would reel me in.

 

-- pj

 

[Radagast]

On 10/8/2023 at 7:48 AM, Adan said:

 

 

The competition at this point is 5-octave clones, like the Crumar Mojo at $1500.  The Mojo is a much better bang for the buck, but it's also 4 times as heavy and bulky.

 

Or, as mentioned, the competition is the CK61 and VK09, which are also both better bang for buck, but still  about 50% heavier and bulkier. I'd guess the M-Solo would beat both of those in a clone shootout, but of course that's always a matter of opinion.

I assume you mean the Roland VR-09.  It’s only 12 lbs.  The same goes for the Yamaha CK-61 and it’s a LOT cheaper than the Hammond.  How long before we hear from someone who bought it because it was cute, then get sick of being limited to 4 octaves?

[Adan]

47 minutes ago, Radagast said:

I assume you mean the Roland VR-09.  It’s only 12 lbs.  The same goes for the Yamaha CK-61 and it’s a LOT cheaper than the Hammond.  How long before we hear from someone who bought it because it was cute, then get sick of being limited to 4 octaves?

I think the concept of the MSolo is solid -- a clone designed to be on top in a multi-board rig. I've used clones that way on certain types of gigs for decades. IMO, 5 octaves is one more than needed in that configuration. So the idea is brilliant.  The execution and cost are debatable. 

 

I've got a CK61.  Organ to organ, it's not a match for the MSolo.  Of course there's other reasons why someone might want a CK61.

 

I don't know anyone who buys a keyboard because it's "cute," but maybe people like that are out there somewhere?

 

My thought on the cost is this: if something like the MSolo had  existed 30 years ago, I would have bought it and, speaking as a pretty active weekend warrior, probably used it on 100+ gigs.  If you use something that much, does $300 difference in the price really matter? 

 

Again, the MSolo is for some types of gigs. To my mind, it's rock/blues where I want a dedicated clone but I'm never playing two-handed. That describes a pretty high percentage of my gigs over a lifetime.

 

Sadly, I likely don't have another 30 years of gigging in me. But hopefully at least another decade and maybe 60-70 gigs with the MSolo.

 

It's not my job to convince anyone else to buy it, but maybe hearing my logic helps others with their decisionmaking.

[stoken6]

37 minutes ago, Adan said:

To my mind, it's rock/blues where I want a dedicated clone but I'm never playing two-handed.

That's precisely the MSolo's niche. 

 

37 minutes ago, Adan said:

if something like the MSolo had  existed 30 years ago, I would have bought it 

If both the MSolo and Mojo had existed 30 years ago, which would you have chosen?  (Serious question, I'm not trying to be provocative). 

 

Cheers, Mike.