Justin Havu Posted October 10, 2023 Share Posted October 10, 2023 Only thing I wish they did differently would be to up the 128-voices in AWM2 to 192 or even 256, instead of allocating the extra 128 voices to user waveforms/libraries. Seems like having 128 elements available per part would greatly benefit from a polyphony increase. Quote Hardware Yamaha DX7, PSR-530, MX61/Korg Karma/Ensoniq ESQ-1/Roland VR-760/Hydrasynth Deluxe/ Behringer DeepMind12, Model D, Odyssey, 2600/Arturia Keylab MKII 61 Software Studio One/V Collection 9/Korg Collection 5/Cherry Audio/UVI SonicPass/EW Composer Cloud/Omnisphere, Stylus RMX, Trilian/IK Total Studio 3.5 MAX Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnotherScott Posted October 10, 2023 Share Posted October 10, 2023 2 hours ago, CyberGene said: I’m wondering if the 128 elements per part will also allow them to provide a tonewheel emulation. As far as I know the one they use on the reface and CK is AWM based and probably just mixes different layers. With enough elements and a UI overlay it would still be better than relying on presets. Otherwise it would be pretty odd for such a recent and expensive workstation to omit any TW emulation, let alone a proper one (such as on the YC). Even on the pre-existing Montage/MODX, you didn't have to rely on presets. They include a "multi-part single instrument" organ performance that uses the accessibility of more than 8 elements to provide you with independent level controls for the samples of each of the 9 drawbar tones, along with leakage, click, etc. But that's still different from, for example, the organ engine of the CK, even though it's also based on AWM samples. MODX doesn't have an "organ engine," it imitates one. 😉 So for example, with 9 drawbars out and 128 polyphony, the MODX (at 9 sounding elements per note) would limit you to 12 note polyphony on the organ (and then, only if you're not playing any other sound at the same time). A proper organ engine does not work that way, and indeed, the CK gives you plenty of organ polyphony, even with all drawbars out and layered with other sounds, which would not happen on a MODX. And it sounds to me like the CK is also doing the other basic stuff right, like phase-locking redundant instances of the same component drawbar tone, and keeping their balances correct. (But I don't want to derail this thread with the details.) Still, despite its limitations and hits on polyphony, in many cases, you should able to get "good enough" organs out of even the basic AWM approach, especially now that you can put it through a better rotary sim. In fact, I'll be curious about how the Montage M organ compares with the CK, with the CK having the better underlying tone generation approach, but the Montage M having the better Leslie. Especially since other aspects of the CK's organ implementation aren't all first-rate to begin with. 3 Quote Maybe this is the best place for a shameless plug! Our now not-so-new new video at https://youtu.be/3ZRC3b4p4EI is a 40 minute adaptation of T. S. Eliot's "Prufrock" - check it out! And hopefully I'll have something new here this year. ;-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HammondDave Posted October 10, 2023 Share Posted October 10, 2023 11 hours ago, Jose EB5AGV said: Have you noticed the subtle difference on how the Super Knob flashes?. It seems a rotating pattern instead of the pumping effect. I guess this it is less distracting i turned that throbbing off the first time I turned on my MODX. 1 Quote '55 and '59 B3's; Leslies 147, 122, 21H; MODX 7+; NUMA Piano X 88; Motif XS7; Mellotrons M300 and M400’s; Wurlitzer 206; Gibson G101; Vox Continental; Mojo 61; Launchkey 88 Mk III; Korg Module; B3X; Model D6; Moog Model D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DmitryKo Posted October 10, 2023 Share Posted October 10, 2023 Dom Sigalas has a video on programming the AN-X engine from scratch using PEG, PWM, unison/detune, FEG, and modulation parameters, and controlling them in realtime with Polyphonic Aftertouch on the Montage M8x. Montage M: AN-X Engine and Polyphonic Aftertouch playthrough & Guide! #montagem | Dom Sigalas https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g37krx2ZhOQ Also come and check Dom's outstanding presentations of rare Yamaha VP1 and Yamaha VL1 virtual acoustic modeling keyboards and Yamaha FS1r formant synthesis module (with an external programming surface), and the sounds he programmed for the FM-X Smart Morph feature in Montage OS 3.5. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nadroj Posted October 10, 2023 Share Posted October 10, 2023 I’m not in the market for this, but it sounds like they’ve fixed everything that made me not like the MODX: - the editing interface looks much improved. - their best pianos are finally one part. The sheer number of multi-part single tones made editing simple things like effects and filters such a damn chore. - an actual synth engine! - the rotary speaker. I’m encouraged to see they’ve actually made it their flagship - the best CP/YC pianos and rotary effects are included. If you buy the most expensive flagship you SHOULD get the best sounds imo. Quote Hammond SKX Mainstage 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GovernorSilver Posted October 10, 2023 Share Posted October 10, 2023 Guitar Center got Nick Semrad to demo. Wonder how hard he had to press to activate polyphonic aftertouch for those pedal steel like sounds Looks like I missed the party at Chuck Levins! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EscapeRocks Posted October 10, 2023 Share Posted October 10, 2023 Just when I thought I was out…. Just ordered M6. Will be here Friday 6 1 Quote David Gig Rig:Roland Fantom 08 | Roland Jupiter 80 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
linwood Posted October 10, 2023 Share Posted October 10, 2023 23 minutes ago, EscapeRocks said: Just when I thought I was out…. Just ordered M6. Will be here Friday I'm with you. My 88 says "Ready to Ship". Looking forward to it. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bobadohshe Posted October 10, 2023 Share Posted October 10, 2023 I find myself being intrigued from an unexpected angle - the pianos. These bigger multi element pianos sound great. Rhodes too. Damn it. Quote Kawai C-60 Grand Piano : Hammond A-100 : Hammond SK2 : Yamaha CP4 : Yamaha Montage 7 : Moog Sub 37 My latest album: Funky organ, huge horn section https://bobbycressey.bandcamp.com/album/cali-native Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CyberGene Posted October 10, 2023 Share Posted October 10, 2023 How long after Montage is the corresponding MODX announced? 😀 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zephonic Posted October 10, 2023 Share Posted October 10, 2023 Artist videos up now: 1 Quote local: Korg Nautilus 61 AT | Yamaha MODX8 away: GigPerformer | 16" MBP M1 Max home: Kawai RX-2 | Korg D1 | Roland Fantom X7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GovernorSilver Posted October 10, 2023 Share Posted October 10, 2023 4 minutes ago, Bobadohshe said: I find myself being intrigued from an unexpected angle - the pianos. These bigger multi element pianos sound great. Rhodes too. Damn it. Perhaps the keybed will turn off the GAS for you. 😉 Or not... looking forward to trying in store. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bobadohshe Posted October 10, 2023 Share Posted October 10, 2023 Working through my sudden bout of GAS as I watch these videos. I use my Montage 7 probably more than 95% of the people on this forum, but I really don't know if I can stomach the $4K plus tax for it at the moment, when my current board gets the job done and all the improvements would be, eh, alright (for my purposes). So much $! 1 Quote Kawai C-60 Grand Piano : Hammond A-100 : Hammond SK2 : Yamaha CP4 : Yamaha Montage 7 : Moog Sub 37 My latest album: Funky organ, huge horn section https://bobbycressey.bandcamp.com/album/cali-native Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Osoff Posted October 10, 2023 Share Posted October 10, 2023 18 minutes ago, GovernorSilver said: Perhaps the keybed will turn off the GAS for you. 😉 Or not... looking forward to trying in store. Is this the exact same keybed as in the older Motif XS7? That’s the last Yamaha I owned and I sold it because I never liked the action. Quote Nord Stage 3 Compact Nord Stage 2 EX Compact Korg Kronos 2 73 Mag C2 organ UHL X3-1 organ GSI DMC-122 Radial KL8 Motion Sound Kp500S Macbook Pro Falcon, UVI, Kontakt, Logic, PT Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kpl1228 Posted October 10, 2023 Share Posted October 10, 2023 29 minutes ago, zephonic said: Artist videos up now: The guy is without a doubt my favorite keyboard player currently. Great personality also. Quote Roland RD-2000, Yamaha Motif XF7, Mojo 61, 2 Invisible keyboard stands (!!!!!), 1939 Martin Handcraft Imperial trumpet "Everyone knows rock music attained perfection in 1974. It is a scientific fact." -- Homer Simpson Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jose EB5AGV Posted October 10, 2023 Share Posted October 10, 2023 32 minutes ago, CyberGene said: How long after Montage is the corresponding MODX announced? 😀 I think that perhaps this time their approach is different... what if the VST version (E.S.P.), for non-Montage M owners, is about the cost of a MODX+ 6?. Or, let's say, a big part of it, like 60-70%. That way, they would save a ton on designing a new MODX M series and instead could offer the VST as the alternative, easier to achieve way to get the sounds of it. Yes, the hardware interface is also important, but people is creative and, in not long time, we could see Montage M control clones, I mean DIY ones. Well, time will tell. The usual timing for a cheap version would be like Autumn 2025 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Woodward Posted October 10, 2023 Share Posted October 10, 2023 Been out of the loop on this for a few days. Yamaha mentioned 'another announcement' on the 10th. Was it just the software version or was there something else? As for the boards, I think they look awesome aesthetically and in terms of features. Quote Korg Grandstage 73, Mac Mini M1, Logic Pro X (Pigments, Korg Legacy Collection, Wavestate LE, Sylenth), iPad Pro 12.9 M2 (6th gen), Scarlett 2i2, Presonus Eris E3.5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zephonic Posted October 10, 2023 Share Posted October 10, 2023 1 Quote local: Korg Nautilus 61 AT | Yamaha MODX8 away: GigPerformer | 16" MBP M1 Max home: Kawai RX-2 | Korg D1 | Roland Fantom X7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ElmerJFudd Posted October 10, 2023 Share Posted October 10, 2023 41 minutes ago, Jose EB5AGV said: I think that perhaps this time their approach is different... what if the VST version (E.S.P.), for non-Montage M owners, is about the cost of a MODX+ 6?. Or, let's say, a big part of it, like 60-70%. That way, they would save a ton on designing a new MODX M series and instead could offer the VST as the alternative, easier to achieve way to get the sounds of it. Yes, the hardware interface is also important, but people is creative and, in not long time, we could see Montage M control clones, I mean DIY ones. Well, time will tell. The usual timing for a cheap version would be like Autumn 2025 You can get Halion 7 for $349.99. 35gb sample library, FM synth, VA synth, Granular synth, Wavetable synth, extensive fx and modulation. What would a fair price for the Montage M's AWM2 10gb ROM, FM-X, AN-X, VCM fx and modulation matrix be? Korg Collection 4 currently includes microKorg, ELECTRIBE-R, KAOSS PAD, miniKORG 700S, Prophecy, TRITON Extreme, TRITON, ARP ODYSSEY, MS-20, Polysix, Mono/Poly, M1, WAVESTATION, MDW-X at $399. Newer engines Modwave, and Wavestate are $199 a piece. I'm going to guess a fair price for Montage M VST would be anywhere from $299-$599. Thoughts? Quote Yamaha CP88, Casio PX-560 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pjd Posted October 10, 2023 Share Posted October 10, 2023 37 minutes ago, Paul Woodward said: Been out of the loop on this for a few days. Yamaha mentioned 'another announcement' on the 10th. Was it just the software version or was there something else? As for the boards, I think they look awesome aesthetically and in terms of features. Hi Paul -- You're good. E.S.P. was the second announcement. Both Genos2 and SEQTRAK are somewhere in the queue. -- pj 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pjd Posted October 10, 2023 Share Posted October 10, 2023 14 minutes ago, ElmerJFudd said: I'm going to guess a fair price for Montage M VST would be anywhere from $299-$599. Thoughts? I'm not getting too excited about E.S.P. for the moment. Yamaha's press release states "available in 2024" and the initial version will be edit only. As a retired software guy, that non-specific "2024" stands out like a sore thumb. January? December? Next off, edit only, at first. It's gonna be a while before the VST is gonna be a general software instrument. Even then, the polyphony spec will pale in comparison to the hardware. Software is not going to beat dedicated hardware pipelines for AWM2 or FM-X. I think E.S.P. started life as a prototyping/sound design tool for the development team. Somebody then got the bright idea to monetize it. (Not a bad or unwelcome idea.) Now Yamaha engineering need to "productize" it. [I've been retired over 10 years and I still hate that friggin' word. 😀 ] All said, I'm positive on the whole E.S.P. concept -- pj http://sandsoftwaresound.net/yamaha-montage-m8x-initial-take/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pjd Posted October 10, 2023 Share Posted October 10, 2023 1 hour ago, Bobadohshe said: I find myself being intrigued from an unexpected angle - the pianos. These bigger multi element pianos sound great. Rhodes too. Damn it. Myself, I've been shopping for a higher end digital piano for practice. Montage M8x caught my eye, too. I'm comparing against other Yammie alternatives like P-525, CLP and CSP. Like you, that $4k+ price is hard to choke down. $4K+ is in Clavinova territory and I know which one my spouse would prefer to see in the dining room. 😃 I will definitely try an M8x even if it's just for giggles -- pj 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zephonic Posted October 10, 2023 Share Posted October 10, 2023 8 minutes ago, pjd said: As a retired software guy, that non-specific "2024" stands out like a sore thumb. January? December? from the product page: Quote EXPANDED SOFTSYNTH PLUGIN (E.S.P.) (COMING EARLY 2024) A game-changer for musicians, the Expanded Softsynth Plugin (E.S.P.) replicates the MONTAGE M in your favorite Digital Workstation (DAW). Free for all registered MONTAGE M owners, E.S.P. allows you to create, edit and mix MONTAGE M Performances anywhere you happen to be – without the hardware – offering an unprecedented level of stage and studio integration. We are planning on releasing E.S.P. in early 2024. The first version will have all the MONTAGE M sound while being limited to basic editing. The full version will be available in Summer 2024. Quote local: Korg Nautilus 61 AT | Yamaha MODX8 away: GigPerformer | 16" MBP M1 Max home: Kawai RX-2 | Korg D1 | Roland Fantom X7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jose EB5AGV Posted October 10, 2023 Share Posted October 10, 2023 48 minutes ago, ElmerJFudd said: I'm going to guess a fair price for Montage M VST would be anywhere from $299-$599. Thoughts? Closer to the top limit, I am afraid 🤔 Time will tell ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HammondDave Posted October 10, 2023 Share Posted October 10, 2023 62 lbs! I just pulled out my old Motif XS7 and almost lost a testicle trying to lift it! Can you imagine lugging around a 62lb Tank? Nothing sounds that good. 2 Quote '55 and '59 B3's; Leslies 147, 122, 21H; MODX 7+; NUMA Piano X 88; Motif XS7; Mellotrons M300 and M400’s; Wurlitzer 206; Gibson G101; Vox Continental; Mojo 61; Launchkey 88 Mk III; Korg Module; B3X; Model D6; Moog Model D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ElmerJFudd Posted October 10, 2023 Share Posted October 10, 2023 5 minutes ago, HammondDave said: 62 lbs! I just pulled out my old Motif XS7 and almost lost a testicle trying to lift it! Can you imagine lugging around a 62lb Tank? Nothing sounds that good. VST version. 33 minutes ago, Jose EB5AGV said: Closer to the top limit, I am afraid 🤔 Time will tell ! If they go to high the market will correct it. 😊 Quote Yamaha CP88, Casio PX-560 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pjd Posted October 10, 2023 Share Posted October 10, 2023 1 hour ago, zephonic said: from the product page: EXPANDED SOFTSYNTH PLUGIN (E.S.P.) (COMING EARLY 2024) Yep, that is what I read. "Coming early 2024" reads like me trying to tell my managers, "It'll be ready when it's done." Jeez, that is soooooo non-specific. Old curmudgeon, here -- pj 😃 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Docbop Posted October 11, 2023 Share Posted October 11, 2023 When they come out with the plugin version of a $4500 physical keyboard I bet they will have some sort of nasty dongle or elicense to try and keep down the piracy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ElmerJFudd Posted October 11, 2023 Share Posted October 11, 2023 10 minutes ago, Docbop said: When they come out with the plugin version of a $4500 physical keyboard I bet they will have some sort of nasty dongle or elicense to try and keep down the piracy. Oh, definitely. My guess is it will use Steinberg’s licensing system. Now they recently dropped the dongle on most of their lineup. But I think it requires being online at least every once in awhile. Maybe current Cubase users can comment. Quote Yamaha CP88, Casio PX-560 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CraigT Posted October 11, 2023 Share Posted October 11, 2023 Played an M8x today. Didn’t impress me in the areas I wanted versus my current Motif XS8 and Nord Stage 3. I think the action on my Motif XS8 is better. The M8x pianos, organs, and Rhodes are better than my Motif but don’t measure up to the Stage 3. I didn’t really try many other sounds because they’re not as important to me but I know Yamaha and they’re gonna be killer. So, I’ll stick with what I’ve got. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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