Rumors: Yamaha Montage successor

[Justin Havu]

Only thing I wish they did differently would be to up the 128-voices in AWM2 to 192 or even 256, instead of allocating the extra 128 voices to user waveforms/libraries.  Seems like having 128 elements available per part would greatly benefit from a polyphony increase.

[AnotherScott]

2 hours ago, CyberGene said:

I’m wondering if the 128 elements per part will also allow them to provide a tonewheel emulation. As far as I know the one they use on the reface and CK is AWM based and probably just mixes different layers. With enough elements and a UI overlay it would still be better than relying on presets. Otherwise it would be pretty odd for such a recent and expensive workstation to omit any TW emulation, let alone a proper one (such as on the YC). 

 

Even on the pre-existing Montage/MODX, you didn't have to rely on presets. They include a "multi-part single instrument" organ performance that uses the accessibility of more than 8 elements to provide you with independent level controls for the samples of each of the 9 drawbar tones, along with leakage, click, etc. But that's still different from, for example,  the organ engine of the CK, even though it's also based on AWM samples. MODX doesn't have an "organ engine," it imitates one. 😉 So for example, with 9 drawbars out and 128 polyphony, the MODX (at 9 sounding elements per note) would limit you to 12 note polyphony on the organ (and then, only if you're not playing any other sound at the same  time). A proper organ engine does not work that way, and indeed, the CK gives you plenty of organ polyphony, even with all drawbars out and layered with other sounds, which would not happen on a MODX. And it sounds to me like the CK is also doing the other basic stuff right, like phase-locking redundant instances of the same component drawbar tone, and keeping their balances correct. (But I don't want to derail this thread with the details.) Still, despite its limitations and hits on polyphony, in many cases, you should able to get "good enough" organs out of even the basic AWM approach, especially now that you can put it through a better rotary sim. In fact, I'll be curious about how the Montage M organ compares with the CK, with the CK having the better underlying tone generation approach, but the Montage M having the better Leslie. Especially since other aspects of the CK's organ implementation aren't all first-rate to begin with.

[HammondDave]

11 hours ago, Jose EB5AGV said:

Have you noticed the subtle difference on how the Super Knob flashes?. It seems a rotating pattern instead of the pumping effect. I guess this it is less distracting 

i turned that throbbing off the first time I turned on my MODX.  

[DmitryKo]

Dom Sigalas has a video on programming the AN-X engine from scratch using PEG, PWM, unison/detune, FEG, and modulation parameters, and controlling them in realtime with Polyphonic Aftertouch on the Montage M8x.

 

 

Montage M: AN-X Engine and Polyphonic Aftertouch playthrough & Guide! #montagem |  Dom Sigalas 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g37krx2ZhOQ

 

 

 

Also come and check Dom's outstanding presentations of rare Yamaha VP1 and Yamaha VL1 virtual acoustic modeling keyboards and Yamaha FS1r formant synthesis module (with an external programming surface), and the sounds he programmed for the FM-X Smart Morph feature in Montage OS 3.5.

[nadroj]

I’m not in the market for this, but it sounds like they’ve fixed everything that made

me not like the MODX:

- the editing interface looks much improved. 

- their best pianos are finally one part. The sheer number of multi-part single tones made editing simple things like effects and filters such a damn chore. 
- an actual synth engine!

- the rotary speaker.

I’m encouraged to see they’ve actually made it their flagship - the best CP/YC pianos and rotary effects are included. If you buy the most expensive flagship you SHOULD get the best sounds imo.  

[GovernorSilver]

Guitar Center got Nick Semrad to demo.  Wonder how hard he had to press to activate polyphonic aftertouch for those pedal steel like sounds

 

 

Looks like I missed the party at Chuck Levins!

 

 

[EscapeRocks]

Just when I thought I was out….

 

Just ordered M6.  Will be here Friday

[linwood]

23 minutes ago, EscapeRocks said:

Just when I thought I was out….

 

Just ordered M6.  Will be here Friday

I'm with you. My 88 says "Ready to Ship". Looking forward to it. 

[Bobadohshe]

I find myself being intrigued from an unexpected angle - the pianos. These bigger multi element pianos sound great. Rhodes too. Damn it.

[CyberGene]

How long after Montage is the corresponding MODX announced? 😀

[zephonic]

Artist videos up now:

 

 

[GovernorSilver]

4 minutes ago, Bobadohshe said:

I find myself being intrigued from an unexpected angle - the pianos. These bigger multi element pianos sound great. Rhodes too. Damn it.

 

Perhaps the keybed will turn off the GAS for you.  😉

 

Or not... looking forward to trying in store.

[Bobadohshe]

 Working through my sudden bout of GAS as I watch these videos. I use my Montage 7 probably more than 95% of the people on this forum, but I really don't know if I can stomach the $4K plus tax for it at the moment, when my current board gets the job done and all the improvements would be, eh, alright (for my purposes). So much $!

[Dave Osoff]

18 minutes ago, GovernorSilver said:

 

Perhaps the keybed will turn off the GAS for you.  😉

 

Or not... looking forward to trying in store.

Is this the exact same keybed as in the older Motif XS7? That’s the last Yamaha I owned and I sold it because I never liked the action.

 

[kpl1228]

29 minutes ago, zephonic said:

Artist videos up now:

 

The guy is without a doubt my favorite keyboard player currently. Great personality also.

 

[Jose EB5AGV]

32 minutes ago, CyberGene said:

How long after Montage is the corresponding MODX announced? 😀

 

I think that perhaps this time their approach is different... what if the VST version (E.S.P.), for non-Montage M owners, is about the cost of a MODX+ 6?. Or, let's say, a big part of it, like 60-70%. That way, they would save a ton on designing a new MODX M series and instead could offer the VST as the alternative, easier to achieve way to get the sounds of it. Yes, the hardware interface is also important, but people is creative and, in not long time, we could see Montage M control clones, I mean DIY ones.

 

Well, time will tell. The usual timing for a cheap version would be like Autumn 2025

[Paul Woodward]

Been out of the loop on this for a few days. Yamaha mentioned 'another announcement' on the 10th. Was it just the software version or was there something else?

As for the boards, I think they look awesome aesthetically and in terms of features. 

[zephonic]

 

[ElmerJFudd]

41 minutes ago, Jose EB5AGV said:

 

I think that perhaps this time their approach is different... what if the VST version (E.S.P.), for non-Montage M owners, is about the cost of a MODX+ 6?. Or, let's say, a big part of it, like 60-70%. That way, they would save a ton on designing a new MODX M series and instead could offer the VST as the alternative, easier to achieve way to get the sounds of it. Yes, the hardware interface is also important, but people is creative and, in not long time, we could see Montage M control clones, I mean DIY ones.

 

Well, time will tell. The usual timing for a cheap version would be like Autumn 2025

You can get Halion 7 for $349.99.   35gb sample library, FM synth, VA synth, Granular synth, Wavetable synth, extensive fx and modulation.  What would a fair price for the Montage M's AWM2 10gb ROM, FM-X, AN-X, VCM fx and modulation matrix be?   

 

Korg Collection 4 currently includes microKorg, ELECTRIBE-R, KAOSS PAD, miniKORG 700S, Prophecy, TRITON Extreme, TRITON, ARP ODYSSEY, MS-20, Polysix, Mono/Poly, M1, WAVESTATION, MDW-X at $399.  Newer engines Modwave, and Wavestate are $199 a piece.  

 

I'm going to guess a fair price for Montage M VST would be anywhere from $299-$599.   

 

Thoughts?

 

 

[pjd]

37 minutes ago, Paul Woodward said:

Been out of the loop on this for a few days. Yamaha mentioned 'another announcement' on the 10th. Was it just the software version or was there something else?

As for the boards, I think they look awesome aesthetically and in terms of features. 

 

Hi Paul --

 

You're good. E.S.P. was the second announcement. Both Genos2 and SEQTRAK are somewhere in the queue.

 

-- pj

[pjd]

14 minutes ago, ElmerJFudd said:

I'm going to guess a fair price for Montage M VST would be anywhere from $299-$599.   

 

Thoughts?

 

 

 

I'm not getting too excited about E.S.P. for the moment. Yamaha's press release states "available in 2024" and the initial version will be edit only.

 

As a retired software guy, that non-specific "2024" stands out like a sore thumb. January? December?

 

Next off, edit only, at first. It's gonna be a while before the VST is gonna be a general software instrument. Even then, the polyphony spec will pale in comparison to the hardware. Software is not going to beat dedicated hardware pipelines for AWM2 or FM-X.

 

I think E.S.P. started life as a prototyping/sound design tool for the development team. Somebody then got the bright idea to monetize it. (Not a bad or unwelcome idea.) Now Yamaha engineering need to "productize" it. [I've been retired over 10 years and I still hate that friggin' word. 😀 ]

 

All said, I'm positive on the whole E.S.P. concept -- pj

 

http://sandsoftwaresound.net/yamaha-montage-m8x-initial-take/

 

[pjd]

1 hour ago, Bobadohshe said:

I find myself being intrigued from an unexpected angle - the pianos. These bigger multi element pianos sound great. Rhodes too. Damn it.

 

Myself, I've been shopping for a higher end digital piano for practice. Montage M8x caught my eye, too. I'm comparing against other Yammie alternatives like P-525, CLP and CSP.

 

Like you, that $4k+ price is hard to choke down. $4K+ is in Clavinova territory and I know which one my spouse would prefer to see in the dining room. 😃

 

I will definitely try an M8x even if it's just for giggles -- pj

 

[zephonic]

8 minutes ago, pjd said:

As a retired software guy, that non-specific "2024" stands out like a sore thumb. January? December?

 

from the product page:

 

Quote

EXPANDED SOFTSYNTH PLUGIN (E.S.P.) (COMING EARLY 2024)

A game-changer for musicians, the Expanded Softsynth Plugin (E.S.P.) replicates the MONTAGE M in your favorite Digital Workstation (DAW). Free for all registered MONTAGE M owners, E.S.P. allows you to create, edit and mix MONTAGE M Performances anywhere you happen to be – without the hardware – offering an unprecedented level of stage and studio integration. We are planning on releasing E.S.P. in early 2024. The first version will have all the MONTAGE M sound while being limited to basic editing. The full version will be available in Summer 2024.

 

[Jose EB5AGV]

48 minutes ago, ElmerJFudd said:

I'm going to guess a fair price for Montage M VST would be anywhere from $299-$599.   

 

Thoughts?

 

Closer to the top limit, I am afraid 🤔

 

Time will tell !

[HammondDave]

62 lbs!  I just pulled out my old Motif XS7 and almost lost a testicle trying to lift it!  Can you imagine lugging around a 62lb Tank?  Nothing sounds that good. 

[ElmerJFudd]

5 minutes ago, HammondDave said:

62 lbs!  I just pulled out my old Motif XS7 and almost lost a testicle trying to lift it!  Can you imagine lugging around a 62lb Tank?  Nothing sounds that good. 

VST version.   

33 minutes ago, Jose EB5AGV said:

 

Closer to the top limit, I am afraid 🤔

 

Time will tell !

If they go to high the market will correct it. 😊

[pjd]

1 hour ago, zephonic said:

 

from the product page:

EXPANDED SOFTSYNTH PLUGIN (E.S.P.) (COMING EARLY 2024)

 

 

Yep, that is what I read. "Coming early 2024" reads like me trying to tell my managers, "It'll be ready when it's done." Jeez, that is soooooo non-specific.

 

Old curmudgeon, here -- pj   😃

[Docbop]

When they come out with the plugin version of a $4500 physical keyboard I bet they will have some sort of nasty dongle or elicense to try and keep down the piracy.   

[ElmerJFudd]

10 minutes ago, Docbop said:

When they come out with the plugin version of a $4500 physical keyboard I bet they will have some sort of nasty dongle or elicense to try and keep down the piracy.   

Oh, definitely.  My guess is it will use Steinberg’s licensing system. Now they recently dropped the dongle on most of their lineup.  But I think it requires being online at least every once in awhile.  Maybe current Cubase users can comment. 

[CraigT]

Played an M8x today.  Didn’t impress me in the areas I wanted versus my current Motif XS8 and Nord Stage 3.  I think the action on my Motif XS8 is better.  The M8x pianos, organs, and Rhodes are better than my Motif but don’t measure up to the Stage 3.  I didn’t really try many other sounds because they’re not as important to me but I know Yamaha and they’re gonna be killer.  So, I’ll stick with what I’ve got.