Have you gone from hardware stage keyboard to an iPad and controller setup for bread and butter piano/keyboard sounds? How did it go?

[Reezekeys]

And I come from the entire opposite end of this spectrum - going with a laptop & software back when the sound quality of hardware boards was not nearly as good (imo). Also, less schlep, and also, more flexibility in programming exactly the kind of rig I wanted.

 

I know I'd be fine with many if not most of the sounds in hardware boards these days - I'm just comfortable with where I'm at, having done it for so long. Also, I would miss the ability to program any kind of custom preset or setup. There are things I do on the AWB gig such as triggering and stopping loops, also controlling some effects, I'm almost positive could never be done with hardware boards. Then again, I'm weird - I enjoy programming this stuff! 🙂 

[The Piano Man]

2 hours ago, cassdad said:

For me:  Hardware beats the software sounds I’ve heard (so far).  I’ve not personally heard Keyscape, but to my old ears, Hammond B3X, Pianoteq, and Mainstage voices, do not sound nor “play” as well as the one simple old 88-note keyboard I use (Yamaha MOXF8) which with piano-like action, still only weighs 31 pounds.  And that’s all I bring.  Come on, with some 1200 quality, responsive voices on tap in one keyboard, I thus far have been able to find whatever voices I’ve needed to date for live band performances.

 

For me, “sound” is not just about what comes out of the speakers - it includes the player to instrument connection, expressiveness, ease of choosing & changing sounds, and the set-up and tear-down.  And, as a professional, “dependability” has to be job one.  I only use 1 board, and plug it directly into a new Motion Sound KP-612S (which has it’s own mixer and tone controls).  Keep it simple.  There’s enough other problems to worry about at every venue and performance.  At least limit the ones over which I have control.

 

IMO, plugging in the keyboard power and then plugging it into the amp is just about as straight-forward and dependable a set-up as one can get.  All my controls and sounds are ready at the touch, and it has never failed me yet (including summer heat and beach winter-time condensation).  I find using a computer for sounds to be a nightmare for live, real-time control, riddled with tenuous connections and adapters.

 

I want to join the computer revolution, but someone has to make it a lot easier, more expressive/responsive, and more dependable before I will feel comfortable doing so.  I know, old school, apologies.

Totally agree!

 

Two questions…

 

1. Do you carry a spare power adaptor for the Yamaha?

 

2. Do you carry a backup keyboard with you, just in case?

[Aynsley Green]

7 hours ago, Baldwin Funster said:

Well I can't claim I did 200 gigs a year for the last 15 years so you got me beat there. But you don't say how long ago you tried the software route.

It's important because the topic is ipad specifically and MY point is about the most recent iOS only.

If you asked me 2 years ago I would have moaned about many of the same complaints from using my iPad mini4. It is way underpowered and not reliable enough with the apps I like to run smoothly. 

But the game has changed with the iPad 9th Gen and iOS 15. Cpu power handles my needs easily, and battery power is unbelievably long, 10 hours.

Any problems I've had were from old hubs I bought and used from like 6 years ago. I bought some on close-out and used the heck out of them, and when I had a couple of incidents (in extreme heat mind you) I trouble shot them out and my rig has been rock solid.

One place I can't defend an iPad rig is flimsy connectors and cableing. It makes me nervous when any body looks like they are going to walk behind my setup in the area of my cableing because one misstep of some oafs big shoe and I'm probably done for the gig. It's not road ready or clumsy oaf proof. I do local gigs only and turn down long distance stuff. I'd like to see somebody specialize in pro grade cables and connectors for USB gear.

 

I did the 100% Mainstage rig from about 2014-2017 - so to be fair I'm sure the technology has improved since then, especially with the new Apple chips etc.

That said, I've seen gigs recently with cats using Mainstage, and I can still hear the telltale coughing and spluttering going on - one gig I saw the bloke restarting his laptop mid-song whilst an important line was supposed to be happening, and I think 'Can we just admit that Mainstage doesn't work?'

 

iPads, I can't say. Probably more stable, but it doesn't have 'professional' connectors, and iOS doesn't have Spectrasonics or any of the heavy hitters that make Mainstage appealing in the first place.

[AnotherScott]

10 minutes ago, Aynsley Green said:

 

I did the 100% Mainstage rig from about 2014-2017 - so to be fair I'm sure the technology has improved since then, especially with the new Apple chips etc.

That said, I've seen gigs recently with cats using Mainstage, and I can still hear the telltale coughing and spluttering going on - one gig I saw the bloke restarting his laptop mid-song whilst an important line was supposed to be happening, and I just think 'Can we just admit that Mainstage doesn't work?'

 

I think that's one of the reasons some people swear by Gig Performer... it seems to use resources more efficiently, which should make it more robust.

[Reezekeys]

2 hours ago, Aynsley Green said:

That said, I've seen gigs recently with cats using Mainstage, and I can still hear the telltale coughing and spluttering going on - one gig I saw the bloke restarting his laptop mid-song whilst an important line was supposed to be happening, and I think 'Can we just admit that Mainstage doesn't work?'

 

Which really means nothing - to me anyway - as there are many thousands of possible combinations of plugin software versions, laptop models, OS versions, etc., etc. This person could be using one poorly-written plugin in his or her setup. Or, he or she updated their MacOS and an older plugin was then made incompatible. This is actually a drawback of a laptop rig - it does require some mindfulness on the part of the operator to ensure proper operation. I've seen posts from folks complaining because "automatic updates" was turned on and suddenly their setup is unstable - whose fault is that? Your music rig is made up of potentially many different companies' products that need to work flawlessly in concert (npi!) with each other –  you do need some smarts to navigate this. "Plug & play" this isn't - and has never been. Really though - "Mainstage doesn't work"? Quite the blanket statement there! I think there might be a few people on this board that would disagree. I don't use it myself but but from the posts I see here, most of them seem pretty happy with it.

 

I would never be using any kind of music-making system that "coughed" or "sputtered." I've had a few blips along the way, nothing major. I had to restart in the middle of a show twice in ~15 years - once when my MOTU audio interface disconnected. Another when a USB stick I was using for sample storage failed (right before a 5-minute drum solo, so I was able to connect another SSD and get back online before I had to play again!). Considering the stories I hear on this board about hardware failures (I could mention one particular brand but don't want to start anything right now!), I think that's a pretty good record. Of course I treated each of those incidents as learning experiences. Today I use my laptop's headphone output and store the samples I need for my gigs on my laptop's internal drive. It's been a long time since I've had any issue with my laptop rig. My new iPad & iPhone setup has had some teething pains, which again I am learning from as well. To some, these kinds of incidents are instant deal-killers, I get it. To me they're challenges, and at least for me at this particular moment, minor bumps in the road that are in my rear-view mirror.

[CHarrell]

39 minutes ago, Reezekeys said:

 

Which really means nothing - to me anyway - as there are many thousands of possible combinations of plugin software versions, laptop models, OS versions, etc., etc. This person could be using one poorly-written plugin in his or her setup. Or, he or she updated their MacOS and an older plugin was then made incompatible. This is actually a drawback of a laptop rig - it does require some mindfulness on the part of the operator to ensure proper operation. I've seen posts from folks complaining because "automatic updates" was turned on and suddenly their setup is unstable - whose fault is that? Your music rig is made up of potentially many different companies' products that need to work flawlessly in concert (npi!) with each other –  you do need some smarts to navigate this. "Plug & play" this isn't - and has never been. Really though - "Mainstage doesn't work"? Quite the blanket statement there! I think there might be a few people on this board that would disagree. I don't use it myself but but from the posts I see here, most of them seem pretty happy with it.

 

I would never be using any kind of music-making system that "coughed" or "sputtered." I've had a few blips along the way, nothing major. I had to restart in the middle of a show twice in ~15 years - once when my MOTU audio interface disconnected. Another when a USB stick I was using for sample storage failed (right before a 5-minute drum solo, so I was able to connect another SSD and get back online before I had to play again!). Considering the stories I hear on this board about hardware failures (I could mention one particular brand but don't want to start anything right now!), I think that's a pretty good record. Of course I treated each of those incidents as learning experiences. Today I use my laptop's headphone output and store the samples I need for my gigs on my laptop's internal drive. It's been a long time since I've had any issue with my laptop rig. My new iPad & iPhone setup has had some teething pains, which again I am learning from as well. To some, these kinds of incidents are instant deal-killers, I get it. To me they're challenges, and at least for me at this particular moment, minor bumps in the road that are in my rear-view mirror.

 

I have a question for you, and I apologize if you've answered this so many times over the years: how do you streamline the process on a laptop between boot up and actually "digging in" (playing)? The #1 deterrent I've experienced, is the time it takes to boot up the computer, log in, open up the software--been experimenting with GP, Cantabile, and Camelot--then adjusting whatever needs to be done in terms of effects, making sure the VSTs are all routed correctly, etc. Am I overcomplicating it, is there a simpler and quicker way to get through that process? So far the iPad has been much simpler on this front for me, which makes it infinitely more appealing, though there are some laptop plugins I'd love to use.

[Reezekeys]

2 hours ago, CHarrell said:

how do you streamline the process on a laptop between boot up and actually "digging in" (playing)? The #1 deterrent I've experienced, is the time it takes to boot up the computer, log in, open up the software--been experimenting with GP, Cantabile, and Camelot--then adjusting whatever needs to be done in terms of effects, making sure the VSTs are all routed correctly, etc.

 

I think I understand your issue, or question - getting a computer rig going involves more steps than just turning on a hardware keyboard, for sure. I can see if you're in a stressful situation with a quick set change on a multi-band lineup, or you happen to get to a gig later than you wanted to, that might be an issue. Or maybe it's just a general feeling that having to navigate multiple steps to start getting sounds is a drag?

 

I can only speak from my perspective. The way I have Bidule (my host app) setup, there is no need to "adjust" anything or "make sure VSTs are routed correctly" - all that is already done and programmed into my setup. This setup loads with my acoustic piano active, along with a touch of global reverb. All other plugins are ready to be activated and mixed with the buttons & sliders I've mapped on my controller. If I need other sounds or presets to be active, all it takes is a few button presses once the load completes.

 

The actual boot & load process is pretty quick for me. I did like to do a cold start when I got to a gig, so that took a minute or so. Loading my Bidule setup was another 30 seconds if I had to guess. These days I just have the laptop asleep. Open the lid, click on the icon for Bidule in the dock, click on "Open" in the File menu, select my layout, 15 seconds later I'm good to go (things got faster with my new MacBook Air!).

 

Now if you really wanted to make loading a laptop rig dead simple and/or faster, there are two things you can do. First one is to set up an Automator "workflow" which I did for a while. You can create this workflow file and place it in your dock or make it an icon on your desktop. Double-click the icon (or one click if it's in the dock) and it will start your host program and load in the setup of your choice with no further intervention. You can have separate automator workflows for different gig setups if you need to select from a few at a gig. However, one very easy thing I've done when we're on a festival gig with a crazy-short set change is to load my Bidule setup at the hotel or in the dressing room, then sleep the laptop! When I get to the stage I simply raise the lid on the laptop, plug in my audio & USB cable and I'm good. I would bet this takes less time than booting many hardware keyboards!

 

[EDIT --- I see your mention of "GP, Cantabile, and Camelot"... you're on a Windows machine? I guess my mention of Automator is useless to you, sorry! There must be a similar macro-type program for Windows, no?]

[cassdad]

19 hours ago, The Piano Man said:

Totally agree!

 

Two questions…

 

1. Do you carry a spare power adaptor for the Yamaha?

 

2. Do you carry a backup keyboard with you, just in case?

Yes to both.  (I actually have four (4) Yamaha MOXF8 identical keyboards, 2 on the east coast, 2 on the west…. just in case of a failure).  However, to date, I’ve never had a hardware keyboard fail on me.  Knock on plastic!

[Nathanael_I]

Then there’s genres that one piece of hardware really can’t deliver the sounds that are asked. Modern worship pretty much relies on laptop rigs to “sound like the record”. You’d need to sample extensively to load up a Kronos.  Granular stuff. FX with fancy cascaded delay lines.  stuff that’s easy in a computer. And the churches that play this music definitely have sound systems capable of reproducing nuance.   
 

The Romplers are focused on a particular swath of pop music.  But there’s places those sounds aren’t that useful and computer rigs are the norm, not the exception.  All the electronic musicians with an Ableton or looping core… 

 

I get the piano/EP/Organ in a box thing.  Where that’s the core, totally makes sense. I’ve owned a Kronos twice and sampled hardware synths into it.  But it’s way easier to use a laptop. (And I use Gig Performer vs MainStage now - much more intuitive and never had the CPU limitations MainStage did).

 

on iPads, I do have a brand new M1 iPad. It’s great. Laptop fast. But the laptop is just way more together as a device, and hardly more weight.  Current high end M1 Max with 64Gb RAM does anything asked on idle.  Way better than the little CPU struggling inside a Kronos.  I liked laptop rigs a decade ago, and still do.
 

Strangely, I do like the new Nord Stage4 - it sounds great, and is clearly easy to adjust on the fly.  The laptop rigs don’t come that way - it’s work to make them so. 

[yannis D]

For people that does fly-in gigs, software is the only viable solution. Nowadays in Europe, airline companies charge you even for a smaller controller, let alone a big, bulky keyboard. And as the budgets (in my league, at least...) are tight, we go with rentals keys (Nords for me) + laptop (and for me also iPad) rigs for the sounds which we need besides the bread-and-butter.

If you do fly-in gigs and don't belong to the 1% of top-end keyboardists, a software rig is mandatory regardless of its problems. AFAIK during all these years of traveling, my laptops were always good to me, so I can't complain. On the contrary, it was the hardware keyboards that caused me problems sometimes here at home.

 

 

 

[Sam Mullins]

11 hours ago, Nathanael_I said:

I get the piano/EP/Organ in a box thing.  Where that’s the core, totally makes sense. I’ve owned a Kronos twice and sampled hardware synths into it.  But it’s way easier to use a laptop. (And I use Gig Performer vs MainStage now - much more intuitive and never had the CPU limitations MainStage did).

 

Yeah, beyond the weight thing I cited in my linked post above about my transition from Stage 3/Kronos to CK88/Keylab/ipad(or mac), the other pluses to getting rid of my Kronos were:

 

- I got pretty proficient on the Kronos with setting up combis/performances with multiple zones, MIDI mappings, etc. But it is much easier on Camelot Pro and Mainstage.

- The screen is just too small (for programming and seeing notes in set list mode) these days at my advanced age. 

 

[Sam Mullins]

6 hours ago, yannis D said:

For people that does fly-in gigs, software is the only viable solution. Nowadays in Europe, airline companies charge you even for a smaller controller, let alone a big, bulky keyboard. And as the budgets (in my league, at least...) are tight, we go with rentals keys (Nords for me) + laptop (and for me also iPad) rigs for the sounds which we need besides the bread-and-butter.

If you do fly-in gigs and don't belong to the 1% of top-end keyboardists, a software rig is mandatory regardless of its problems. AFAIK during all these years of traveling, my laptops were always good to me, so I can't complain. On the contrary, it was the hardware keyboards that caused me problems sometimes here at home.

 

 

 

  I'm a lowly local performer so this isn't an issue for me.  But this makes sense.  If I was a pro travelling by plane, I would:

 

- carry one very small controller that has mod wheels/pitch bend/etc

- rent an 88 of any kind that is acceptable locally.

- do everything on mainstage 

- either carry two macs...or at least have a complete backup on an external drive in case you need to buy a new mac and restore in a failure scenario.

 

 

[Reezekeys]

21 minutes ago, Sam Mullins said:

If I was a pro travelling by plane, I would:

 

- carry one very small controller that has mod wheels/pitch bend/etc

- rent an 88 of any kind that is acceptable locally.

- do everything on mainstage 

- either carry two macs...or at least have a complete backup on an external drive in case you need to buy a new mac and restore in a failure scenario.

 

Carry a small controller - check, I fly with my Roland A800.

Rent an 88? No, the A800 is all I need.

Do everything on mainstage? I use Bidule but yes, that's the idea - everything ITB.

Carry two Macs? Not me.

 

I carry a Korg NanoKontrol so if something happens with my controller I can use any midi keyboard that can be scrounged up - a DX7 from 1984 will work. As long as it has at least 61 keys, a sustain pedal input and transmits midi, I'm good.

 

I also have my entire rig's sounds, presets, loops, etc. programmed in my iPhone SE 2016 - so that's a kind of backup. I've used it instead of the laptop on a few gigs just to make sure it was a viable option. If I had to, with a rental keyboard provided I could show up at a gig with my phone and NanoKontrol - plus a small bag with my midi interface, CCK, charging cube and some cables. That's packing light! 🙂 

[yannis D]

3 hours ago, Sam Mullins said:

  I'm a lowly local performer so this isn't an issue for me.  But this makes sense.  If I was a pro travelling by plane, I would:

 

- carry one very small controller that has mod wheels/pitch bend/etc

- rent an 88 of any kind that is acceptable locally.

- do everything on mainstage 

- either carry two macs...or at least have a complete backup on an external drive in case you need to buy a new mac and restore in a failure scenario.

 

 

For my local (or bus/car driven) gigs I still use my NE5d + Mainstage. I now  incorporate my ipad with Camelot as a backup as I don't want to carry two Macs.

I agree that hardware is easier and the relation hands-to-play is much better, (plus no one gives a damn about a 1% better Hammond sound 😉) but travel makes things complicated to rely on the goo will of flight companies at airports 

[CHarrell]

One thing I'm trying to get the hang of with an iOS setup is figuring out things such as CPU. For example, I'm looking at purchasing the IFX Rack from Gospel Musicians (so cool they have this for iOS!), but I can't find any clue as to whether my mini4 can run it well or not.

[Baldwin Funster]

 

1 hour ago, CHarrell said:

One thing I'm trying to get the hang of with an iOS setup is figuring out things such as CPU. For example, I'm looking at purchasing the IFX Rack from Gospel Musicians (so cool they have this for iOS!), but I can't find any clue as to whether my mini4 can run it well or not.

When you find the app at apples app store, the listing will show what ios is needed to run it. The mini4 stops at something like ios 13. The listing sometimes will detect your iPad and say runs on this iPad. I have a mini4 and it runs alot of stuff but it's right on the edge of needing big buffers and having latency. 

 

IFX Rack at Apple Store

 

[Aynsley Green]

  

On 8/8/2023 at 9:20 AM, Reezekeys said:

 

Which really means nothing - to me anyway - as there are many thousands of possible combinations of plugin software versions, laptop models, OS versions, etc., etc. This person could be using one poorly-written plugin in his or her setup. Or, he or she updated their MacOS and an older plugin was then made incompatible. This is actually a drawback of a laptop rig - it does require some mindfulness on the part of the operator to ensure proper operation. I've seen posts from folks complaining because "automatic updates" was turned on and suddenly their setup is unstable - whose fault is that? Your music rig is made up of potentially many different companies' products that need to work flawlessly in concert (npi!) with each other –  you do need some smarts to navigate this. "Plug & play" this isn't - and has never been. Really though - "Mainstage doesn't work"? Quite the blanket statement there! I think there might be a few people on this board that would disagree. I don't use it myself but but from the posts I see here, most of them seem pretty happy with it.

 

If you spend $5000+ on a laptop/interface/controller/software solution and spend countless hours tweaking its many moving parts, and it still isn't reliable in a professional context (happened to me more than once), that is not a viable solution.

 

If you spend $5000+ on say, a Nord Stage 3 Compact that you can fly with, set up in two minutes, sounds great, and will last you ten years even if you throw it down the stairs (happened to me more than once), that is a proper solution.

 

I know a few big touring dudes who run the Mainstage + Fantom06 rig for speciailised things like backing tracks, one-shots, big Omnisphere Multis - that makes sense because it has built-in redundancy.
They'll still have a Nord or a Yamaha underneath for the common sounds, 90% of the time.

 

Am doing a 100% Fantom06 fly-in this weekend, incidentally. I'll report back if it blows up mid-gig 😉

[Reezekeys]

10 hours ago, Aynsley Green said:

If you spend $5000+ on a laptop/interface/controller/software solution and spend countless hours tweaking its many moving parts, and it still isn't reliable in a professional context (happened to me more than once), that is not a viable solution.

 

 

I had a laptop already, so purposing it for a music rig cost me an additional $0. I did spend money on software and at one point I had an audio interface but the total was very much less than $5000. I spent time through the years tweaking things when little buggies came up, wouldn't call it "countless" though. It was time well spent as my rig has been very reliable in a professional context for many years now. Sorry to hear your experience with a laptop setup was disappointing, I would certainly be put off if I had invested the time & money you did with those results.

[Baldwin Funster]

My iPad rig cost about:

$400 for ipad. 

$200 for controller 

>$200 for VIs

$100 for cables and connectors..

$100 on "other stuff".

 

Of course I have several controllers

And drawbar units and many multi purpose fx boxes. So I have closer to $20,000 in keys, guitars, amps, PA gear ect. 

 

But I could set up a new rig for $1,000 easy. And this particular rig has never crashed. The only problems I've had were a bad cable and an old USB hub failed after several years. I find iOS and ipads very stable. One of my controllers has gotten itself a couple of dead keys but thats not an indictment of the concept. Just an indictment of Arturia build quality. 

 

[CHarrell]

12 hours ago, Baldwin Funster said:

 

When you find the app at apples app store, the listing will show what ios is needed to run it. The mini4 stops at something like ios 13. The listing sometimes will detect your iPad and say runs on this iPad. I have a mini4 and it runs alot of stuff but it's right on the edge of needing big buffers and having latency. 

 

IFX Rack at Apple Store

 

 

My mini4 is on iOS 15.something, so it should be okay. If you're using a mini4, are you able to use a keys app with effects like IFX in AUM with no issues? I seem to have polyphony issues with Korg Module and I don't know if that's a hardware issue or not.

[Baldwin Funster]

1 hour ago, CHarrell said:

 

My mini4 is on iOS 15.something, so it should be okay. If you're using a mini4, are you able to use a keys app with effects like IFX in AUM with no issues? I seem to have polyphony issues with Korg Module and I don't know if that's a hardware issue or not.

My mini4 is just a backup now. I only bring it along so I at least have b3x if my other ipad, gen9 goes down which it never yet has.

 

My mini 4 can barely run b3x and cant at all in aum without going crazy when I move drawbars. 

It would probably be ok with vb3m and aum but I haven't ever tested that because the 9th Gen ipad is just too good.

 

I would suggest this:

When the 2024 ipads come out in a few months the 2022 ipads will be cheap to clear them out.

For something like $300 or less you might be able to get a 9th generation with the 256 memory and you'll be free from cpu worries and the battery last 3 times longer like 9 or 10 hours of gigtime. That's a rehearsal and a gig without recharging.

That mini 4 is just too small to keep up.

[HammondDave]

Wow. I must be the luckiest musician on this forum. I have been running my iPad and controller rig for several years now and have had zero problems with it.
 

I have hardware backups for all my components for the iPad, including the USB connector hub. After hundreds of gigs, I have not had to use any component back ups yet. The iPad is incredibly stable, never had to reboot during a gig, no power or interference issues… Nothing!  It is about as dependable as I can imagine.

 

Tonight I am playing at a small bar in San Clemente, and I will bring my lightweight rig, which consist of a MODX7+, and iPad Pro running Korg, Module, Model D, and B3X. Nothing in my rig weighs more than 20 pounds. It sounds amazing, and I can set it up in five minutes.

[Reezekeys]

The iPad 9G I got this past December – for $270 – handles my AUM setup, consisting of multiple instances of Korg Module, AudioLayer, KQ Dixie, Synthmaster 2, VB3m, plus efx and some Streambyter scripts, with ease. I have a hard time getting the CPU meter in AUM to hit 25%. This at a very playable 128 buffer.

[HammondDave]

Someone needs to teach mw how to integrate the Korg Module set List with AUM. 

[CHarrell]

I was able to check out a bunch of keyboards last week, from the FP series, P515, new Casio PXS, PX5S, M-Audio Hammer, you name it. (Turns out some of my local stores carried more than their websites claimed!)

 

And I gotta admit, I plugged my iPad into the Kawai ES110 and 120, and wow what an immediately gratifying experience. Pianoteq felt really good on them (moreso the 110 but they're getting strangely hard to find secondhand and at this point I want to futureproof a purchase), and the form factor/weight are great. Hell, to be honest, even the sounds themselves I thought would be pretty gig-worthy with a good effects pedal, but NO. CLAV! Whyyyyyyyyy? 😭

 

Anyways, so I'd most likely want to use the ES as an iPad controller. Of course, the perennial dilemma is that there is no modulation or pitch, and I don't know if an expression pedal is compatible with it either. The PX560 offers these, but I decided I prefer the Kawai action. So what's the best way to add more modulation capabilities to the ES? I've come across niche products from indie developers that have limited supply, and some old-school solutions like the Yamaha MCS2, but is there another, low-cost solution to control the iPad sounds with a control surface of some kind? I'm open to easy software solutions (I see Yamaha used to make an app with this function, but discontinued it several years ago), but I wouldn't know how to rig that up in the control chain with the ES.

 

ES120 > iPad via bluetooth or USB MIDI (can't use both simultaneously apparently)...would the USB MIDI go through the interface? (gonna get a Behringer UphoriaHD) > audio interface to external speakers

 

Would the hypothetical controller app be hosted in something like this AUM I see everyone talking about?

 

And is there really NO clav sound on here? It's so premium only the 5 and 920 can hold its majesty?

[HammondDave]

Try this… 

 

https://www.genuinesoundware.com/?a=showproduct&b=58

[HammondDave]

a clavinet and so much more…

[jazzpiano88]

It's interesting.   What people here are telling us is that simultaneously:

 

a) HW manufacturers don't have the knowledge/expertise to produce the best sounds.

b) VI manufacturers have solved all of the sonic reproduction problems and are superior, but don't have the resources to produce a HW platform.

 

That is a complete load of Horse Shit.  

 

I'm going with Al Quinn on this.  Show me the audio files.

 

[Baldwin Funster]

1 hour ago, CHarrell said:

I was able to check out a bunch of keyboards last week, from the FP series, P515, new Casio PXS, PX5S, M-Audio Hammer, you name it. (Turns out some of my local stores carried more than their websites claimed!)

 

And I gotta admit, I plugged my iPad into the Kawai ES110 and 120, and wow what an immediately gratifying experience. Pianoteq felt really good on them (moreso the 110 but they're getting strangely hard to find secondhand and at this point I want to futureproof a purchase), and the form factor/weight are great. Hell, to be honest, even the sounds themselves I thought would be pretty gig-worthy with a good effects pedal, but NO. CLAV! Whyyyyyyyyy? 😭

 

Anyways, so I'd most likely want to use the ES as an iPad controller. Of course, the perennial dilemma is that there is no modulation or pitch, and I don't know if an expression pedal is compatible with it either. The PX560 offers these, but I decided I prefer the Kawai action. So what's the best way to add more modulation capabilities to the ES? I've come across niche products from indie developers that have limited supply, and some old-school solutions like the Yamaha MCS2, but is there another, low-cost solution to control the iPad sounds with a control surface of some kind? I'm open to easy software solutions (I see Yamaha used to make an app with this function, but discontinued it several years ago), but I wouldn't know how to rig that up in the control chain with the ES.

 

ES120 > iPad via bluetooth or USB MIDI (can't use both simultaneously apparently)...would the USB MIDI go through the interface? (gonna get a Behringer UphoriaHD) > audio interface to external speakers

 

Would the hypothetical controller app be hosted in something like this AUM I see everyone talking about?

 

And is there really NO clav sound on here? It's so premium only the 5 and 920 can hold its majesty?

With AUM you can open a channel strip and assign a midi channel to it.

In the same "session" you can open another channel strip and assign another midi channel to it. Or the same midi ch as the first one. I don't know the limitations but it's gonna be more than 10 or 12 channel strips.

 

The channel strip allows you to put an AUMv3 compatible instrument app on it. And each channel strip allows you to put effects apps in line with the instrument. In fact you can put several effects on a channel and change the order. And this is just the start of the routing possibilities. What I described is aum 101.

And there's more:

You can use aum midi learn to assign knobs on your midi controllers to control aum parameters like channel volume.

Or instrument parameters.

Or effect parameters.

Or more than one thing at the same time.

And it's easy to do.

Not to mention unlimited zones.

Try all that with your HW rig.

I'm sure you can get it done but not as easy and fast.

 

That said I'm considering using a hardware board with an iPad organ app on the side.

Why?

I'm sick of the lousy key beds in midi controllers. Even my lowly DS61 has better action than any dedicated controller that's not $900 and with a nanokontrol I have 4 scenes of sliders,knobs, and switches which is 4 times as many controlls than any midi board I've seen.

[Reezekeys]

12 minutes ago, Baldwin Funster said:

With AUM you can open a channel strip and assign a midi channel to it.

In the same "session" you can open another channel strip and assign another midi channel to it. Or the same midi ch as the first one. I don't know the limitations but it's gonna be more than 10 or 12 channel strips.

 

Oh yea, you can keep adding channel strips until your CPU says "no mas" (there might be a finite number but I wouldn't know what it is). I find it easier in some cases to have multiple channel strips on the same midi channel and assign a latching button controller to mute/unmute the channel. You can flip the polarity on these assignments so one button can mute a channel while unmuting another. IMO this one-button method is easier & faster than changing midi channels on your controller. The downside is that there's no "patch remain"... i.e. the instrument plugin immediately shuts off any notes that are sounding when it mutes. For the times I need notes to keep going when I switch, I use another technique that involves Midiflow.