Have you gone from hardware stage keyboard to an iPad and controller setup for bread and butter piano/keyboard sounds? How did it go?

[Al Quinn]

4 hours ago, AnotherScott said:

But I think you would end up with the better sounding rig, in total.

Scott I don’t mean this in the least snarky way — I have the utmost respect for your knowledge — but what I’m requesting is we get out of the what people think and what people say mode and present something we can hear. Words and thoughts shouldn’t be all that necessary when discussing sounds. Isn’t it better to just hear them?
 

My previous comments were in the context of bread and butter sounds. Without those it’s a non-starter for me. I haven’t used the other sounds on the YC73 on a gig yet so I don’t have an opinion. But if I needed horns and strings, and the YC73 didn’t cut it,  I’d use my CP4 instead. I like it’s horns and strings (perhaps they’re from the Motif, I’m not sure).
 

It really depends on what the player is trying to do. I went to see my friends Yes tribute band and the keyboard player used a laptop rig. The playing was great but the sound didn’t cut it for me. Hardware would have sounded better IMHO. Actually, I should say hardware does sound better (to me at least) as I’ve seen Yes many times.

[AnotherScott]

54 minutes ago, Al Quinn said:

Scott I don’t mean this in the least snarky way — I have the utmost respect for your knowledge — but what I’m requesting is we get out of the what people think and what people say mode and present something we can hear. Words and thoughts shouldn’t be all that necessary when discussing sounds. Isn’t it better to just hear them?

 

Sure, but I don't have the time. 😉 Really, when it comes to "strings, horns, mellotron, moog, and wurli ," I think the YC73 and SK Pro are known to not be top tier for these sounds, so it shouldn't be too hard to find examples of iPad apps exceeding that particular hardware on those particular sounds. Moog has a nice minimoog app, Korg Module has a nice Wurli as a cheap add-on, there are a few strong mellotron apps... But to your point about essential sounds, one person's bread-and-butter may be someone else's icing on the cake. 

 

54 minutes ago, Al Quinn said:

But if I needed horns and strings, and the YC73 didn’t cut it,  I’d use my CP4 instead. I like it’s horns and strings

 

And that's back to my point exactly. Let's say you like the CP4 horns/strings better than the YC73's (or SK Pros) but you still prefer the YC73 piano sound. Now you're up to hauling 3 keyboards to get the sounds you want, or else taking a step back in piano quality in exchange for the step up in horns and strings. Point being that if you want to buy and bring 3 somewhat high end boards, okay, you may well be able to beat the iPad for the sounds you need.... but not everyone would consider that the more desirable option.

 

Just an alternate perspective...

 

[Al Quinn]

In that case the CP4 would replace the YC73 . I’m happy with the CP4 APs and EPs on a live gig. So, two keyboards, not three. Having said that, I need to check out the YC73 horns and strings; I wasn’t expecting them to be less than when compared to the CP4, but I’ll check it out soon. Lately my gigs have been only jazz and blues; so all I’ve been playing is AP, EP, and B3.

[Baldwin Funster]

6 hours ago, Al Quinn said:

Scott I don’t mean this in the least snarky way — I have the utmost respect for your knowledge — but what I’m requesting is we get out of the what people think and what people say mode and present something we can hear. Words and thoughts shouldn’t be all that necessary when discussing sounds. Isn’t it better to just hear them?
 

My previous comments were in the context of bread and butter sounds. Without those it’s a non-starter for me. I haven’t used the other sounds on the YC73 on a gig yet so I don’t have an opinion. But if I needed horns and strings, and the YC73 didn’t cut it,  I’d use my CP4 instead. I like it’s horns and strings (perhaps they’re from the Motif, I’m not sure).
 

It really depends on what the player is trying to do. I went to see my friends Yes tribute band and the keyboard player used a laptop rig. The playing was great but the sound didn’t cut it for me. Hardware would have sounded better IMHO. Actually, I should say hardware does sound better (to me at least) as I’ve seen Yes many times.

I don't think I've ever read anywhere that the reason someone has gone from hardware to an ipad setup is to get better sounds. Except to get a better B3 clone. I'm in that camp.

 

I think everyone (like I speak for everyone) concedes that there are better piano sounds in X, and better EPs in Y and nothing beats the clav in Z though what keyboards are represented by X,Y and Z obviously change. Nobody says the absolute best piano or whatever is an iPad app. 

But the iPad sounds in various apps are close to on par with acceptable hardware boards and good enough for many players to gig with to gain the advantages of an ipad rig.

 

What are those gains?

You can have your selections of EPs, trons, horns/ strings and whatever all in one unit not scattered across several boards.

With app mixers like AUM the layers and splits are unbelievable. The midi routing also.

The ability to put ios delays and effects that aren't tied to a particular board on any sound is not even doable in hardware without a rack of boxes and mixers.

 

Most apps have youtube demos so you can check out the sound of them without a head to head shootout video.

[Al Quinn]

Yeah I’ve gigged with an iPad. B-3X is a blast to play but until Pianoteq for iOS was released recently I struggled with the choices for AP. I like the Scarbee Rhodes in Korg module.
 

I have heard it said that laptop based rigs sound better than hardware but I haven’t heard that for myself in a live setting. 

[CHarrell]

51 minutes ago, Al Quinn said:

have heard it said that laptop based rigs sound better than hardware but I haven’t heard that for myself in a live setting. 

 

Depends on what you're listening to--lord knows how many wild software synths are out there that no company would dare release to die in hardware format--but I would imagine many of these VSTs and apps aren't always designed for live use situations,  where companies like Yamaha oftentimes tailor their sounds on particular products to fit their intended context. 

[CHarrell]

1 hour ago, Baldwin Funster said:

The ability to put ios delays and effects

 

Any stereo ones you recommend? Is there a nice, comprehensive multi effects/all in one app, kinda like Neo Souls' Overloud package? (at least on computer, I don't know if they offer it for iOS).

[Baldwin Funster]

1 hour ago, CHarrell said:

 

Any stereo ones you recommend? Is there a nice, comprehensive multi effects/all in one app, kinda like Neo Souls' Overloud package? (at least on computer, I don't know if they offer it for iOS).

I probably have 40 or 50 effects apps including the GSI ones and maybe 10 or 15 Eventide ones but I really never use them because I'm playing mostly blues or classic motown and stax. 

But the Eventide things are obviously going to be great being from Eventide. Sometimes Eventide even gives them away. A youtube guy called the sound test room has reviewed many free or almost free effects apps so you should check him out.

[Aynsley Green]

Did the 100% Mainstage rig from about 2014-2017 with a very expensive MacBook Pro, RME interface, Nektar controller and Spectrasonics software. Very fiddly to set up, didn't necessarily sound better (in a live context), and was completely unreliable - especially outdoors in the heat.

After some on-stage disasters, including during a TV show - have gone all hardware since. Not worth the stress. You can't have your sounds fucking up mid-song, that's just unprofessional.

Yamaha YC88 & Sequential OB6 if I'm driving, or a Roland Fantom 06 if I'm flying - gear that is reliable, portable, has all the knobs so you can fix problems in real-time, and the sounds cut through live.
If you want just one portable board that does everything well, a Nord Stage 3/4 Compact is your best bet.

Keep the gear simple, focus on the notes.

[Aynsley Green]

On 8/5/2023 at 5:13 AM, Ibarch said:

 

This is the thing that puzzles me on all these iPad threads. What about the sounds?

 

People spend huge amounts of time discussing the best pianos, the best Hammonds, the best Leslie, the best Rhodes etc. Then the same people say they are moving to an iPad. Which has none of the best sounds of anything. 

 

Why is the quality of sounds so often ignored in iPad discussions, what is the magic that iPad offers for which audio quality is irrelevant? 

 

There was a vast gap between plugins and hardware about ten years ago, which justified the hassle, but not so anymore.

Keyscape is wonderful in the studio (assuming you can get the Velocity Curve to bloody work), but does it sound much better than the newer Nord or Yamaha samples live?
Omnisphere is wonderful in the studio, but does it cut through better than a real analog synth live? 

IK's B3 is wonderful, but are you really playing Hammond if you don't have study drawbars/buttons at hand to work the sound?

 

In my experience, no.

[AnotherScott]

6 hours ago, Aynsley Green said:

Did the 100% Mainstage rig from about 2014-2017 with a very expensive MacBook Pro, RME interface, Nektar controller and Spectrasonics software. Very fiddly to set up

I"m curious, what were the sources of the fiddliness?

 

 

5 hours ago, Aynsley Green said:

There was a vast gap between plugins and hardware about ten years ago, which justified the hassle, but not so anymore.

Keyscape is wonderful in the studio (assuming you can get the Velocity Curve to bloody work), but does it sound much better than the newer Nord or Yamaha samples live?

I think there's also an additional question... not merely "does it or does it not sound better, in the context of live work"... but does it matter? And we've talked before here about things like how even if listeners can't tell the difference, it can be more satisfying for the player (which may itself lead to a better performance). But it also occurs to me to ask, how many "quality" sounds really matter even to us? Most of us are probably not regularly gigging original material. If we're gigging largely oldies (talking pre-1980s here), we may be playing a lot of stuff that was recorded with "real" instruments, but once you're gigging with music that's less than 40 years old, even the original versions of these songs largely used sounds that plenty of keyboards probably do about as well as any software instrument. Okay, maybe they used a real piano, but almost all the other keyboard sounds on those hits were digital synths or (by today's standards) low-quality samples... stuff whose "sound quality" is well within the range of a wide range of current hardware boards. So then, where are the real benefits of using an iPad or a laptop? Possibly increased portability, possibly lower cost, possibly easier to get more faithful replications of "this particular" sound, though even then, the exact emulation of an old digital sound vs. something that gets in the ballpark isn't really "inspiring" the way a great piano or B3 sound might be, IMO, and is probably of little concern unless you're in a particular tribute band, where nailing "that exact sound" is kinda part of the gig. I'm not sure about this, it's just a thought I'm throwing out for consideration. Outside of the classic 60s/70s instruments--e.g. piano, organs, EPs, clav, harpsichord 😉 --do people even care about using an iPad/laptop for "better sound quality"?  Or is the appeal largely elsewhere? Or is the appeal largely to people focussed on pre-80s stuff?

 

5 hours ago, Aynsley Green said:

Omnisphere is wonderful in the studio, but does it cut through better than a real analog synth live? 

This gets back to where I was saying that even if hardware beats software, it may not beat it if portability and/or budget are a consideration. For lots of people, their current one-or-two gigging boards may not include a real analog synth, and depending on what boards they are using, quality VA software may be preferable to settling for the synth capabilities of the board(s) they have, or adding a third board. So maybe the role of an iPad can be to "fill in the gaps" since, even if in many cases hardware can indeed sound as good (or better), it's not the easiest thing to get EVERY sound and capability you want out of a single board, or even a pair. (Though again, this argues more for software as an adjunct to hardware, as opposed to going with a completely software based rig.)

 

5 hours ago, Aynsley Green said:

IK's B3 is wonderful, but are you really playing Hammond if you don't have study drawbars/buttons at hand to work the sound?

And lots of controllers don't have the most organ-suitable actions, the capability to send high trigger, etc., another argument for hardware.

 

Tying that in to Al's preference for his Yamaha YC/CP piano and Hammond SK Pro, and my comment above about creating an experience that is more satisfying for the player (even if the audience can't tell the difference), the "more satisfying/inspiring" thing to play isn't just about the sound... it's about the feel and the "connection,", and in the end, maybe that's where hardware is most likely to have its edge over software.

[Al Quinn]

If I was a touring musician my laptop rig would probably be very useful. Bring it on the plane, plug it into the backline MIDI equipped keyboard at the gig and have my sounds ready to go. When I see someone doing this I completely get it. And after optimizing the laptop and becoming comfortable with it I can see how it could be appealing for local gigs as well.  

[Al Quinn]

9 hours ago, Aynsley Green said:

IK's B3 is wonderful, but are you really playing Hammond if you don't have study drawbars/buttons at hand to work the sound?

 

My iPad rig was trigged by a Nord Electro 4D. So, I had high trigger, the drawbars, and almost all of the other B3 controls mapped. It was great but a bit of a complicated setup as can be seen in this pic.

 

The iPad with B-3X / Nord E4D rig sounded great and was a blast to play:

 

But compared to playing an SK Pro 61, which I think sounds a bit better, I stopped using my iPad rig.

 

When I bought a YC73 I thought I'd likely use the iPad with B-3X for a better Hammond sound when gigging with the YC73 alone (i.e, without the SK Pro). I tried it and, while better than the YC73 Hammond, it wasn't a big enough improvement for me to use B-3X on gigs as I originally expected. I didn't see the benefit outweighing the increased rig complexity. I'm happy gigging with the YC73 alone and even happier gigging with the YC73 and SK Pro combo.

 

[The Piano Man]

This thread prompted me to hook up my Korg Plugkey running Ravenscroft on an iPhone 8. The very old controller was a Roland Rhodes 760 (basically a rebadged U20) The amp was also old: Peavey KB/a60. 
 

I ran in mono.

 

Being honest, I far preferred the playability of the inbuilt acoustic piano sound on the old Rhodes 760.

 

For me, it’s the usual story… as with Nords, they sound great in decent headphones, decent in ear monitors or very expensive stereo powered cabs but dreadful in mono through a basic keyboard amp.

 

Everyone will have different requirements but I just cannot see the need for an iPad solution for live sound but can see it being useful for recording purposes. 

[AnotherScott]

1 hour ago, Al Quinn said:

When I bought a YC73 I thought I'd likely use the iPad with B-3X for a better Hammond sound when gigging with the YC73 alone (i.e, without the SK Pro). I tried it and, while better than the YC73 Hammond, it wasn't a big enough improvement for me to use B-3X on gigs as I originally expected. I didn't see the benefit outweighing the increased rig complexity. I'm happy gigging with the YC73 alone and even happier gigging with the YC73 and SK Pro combo.

 

I similarly felt that the YC organ was good enough to gig with happily (once Yamaha updated the rotary effect), but that the SK Pro beat it handily. I like either far more than what's in the CK61, Fantom-0, or Kurzweil, all of which can pull off some nice organ sounds, but are not at all immune to some pretty bad ones, too.

[drawback]

I’m using B-3X with my CK61 using USB-audio. The action is by far better than the YC61. I’ve tweaked the ‘78 Rhodes and the CFX piano more to my liking, surprisingly you can do a lot with so few sound shaping controls. 

[Alkeys]

This thread has turned into a very interesting dialogue and I’ve learned so much from you guys that have “been there and done that.”   The whole point of my wanting to explore a iPad rig was hopes of low cost, portability, and state of the art sound using the latest technology but the more I read, I think I am just going to stick to hardware. In the studio, iPad is definitely not needed with the real thing on standby with real instruments like a real Rhodes, Model D etc on standby but for gigs I thought iPad might work for the sake of portability but sounds like cords and batteries etc are more fiddly than worth the hassle. 
 

For playing live with friends the smaller and simpler the rig is, the more intriguing and practical it becomes for me. I used to be into huge rigs kinda like drummers who have big kits but the older I get the smaller the rig is the better. In the studio who cares go heavy and esoteric but live smaller and lighter is better. I knew a world famous session player who has toured with Bonnie Raitt and all sorts of folks and I saw him on a gig with a Yamaha Reface YC and a Yamaha Reface CP and he killed it. No joke. 
 

Anyway I’m probably gonna stick with hardware but as far as sound quality goes I’m sure software can sound as good as hardware live. Mark Kelly from Marillion was one of the earliest adopters of software live with MainStage and he sounds great. This is a neat comparison I found that compared Keyscape to the latest romplers and it comes out on top. The comparison doesn’t say if the sound quality sounds better live with a band or if it’s just through a computer. My experience has taught me that my guess is hardware through various transformers live would sound equal to or better than keyscape but it’s interesting nonetheless. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Alkeys]

 

[Baldwin Funster]

37 minutes ago, Alkeys said:

....I thought iPad might work for the sake of portability but sounds like cords and batteries etc are more fiddly than worth the hassle. 
 

It's not as fiddly as it has been made out be by detractors. It just seems like that because you would have a learning curve with interfaces and usb hubs and getting controllers to communicate with the iPad.

 

Once that unknown is conquered its pretty easy to set up. I will agree about extreme heat. But hardware is unreliable in high temps also, and I'm unreliable in those conditions too so I'm inclines to decline those gigs.

[drawback]

I agree with above. My set up is super easy – Apple connector with charging, USB attached to CK61. The key to simplicity in this case is getting a board that has USB-Audio and the point I'm making is that you can go the hybrid route to address the shortcoming of a hardware keyboard. In this case, it's the organ. YMMV.

[Justin Havu]

I've only ever used an iPad with a KeyLab 61 MkII, VB3m, and a PreSonus AudioBox iOne (sometimes through a Vent II which is currently on loan from a friend of mine), but only because it's the most affordable way I can get a passable organ sound in my rig when I need one, and I don't play organ that much.  Otherwise, my rig would be 100% hardware.

[TJ Cornish]

5 hours ago, Baldwin Funster said:

It's not as fiddly as it has been made out be by detractors. It just seems like that because you would have a learning curve with interfaces and usb hubs and getting controllers to communicate with the iPad.

 

Once that unknown is conquered it’s pretty easy to set up. I will agree about extreme heat. But hardware is unreliable in high temps also, and I'm unreliable in those conditions too so I'm inclines to decline those gigs.

We will have to agree to disagree here. In hardware, the board is what it is unless there is a software update that you manually install. PCs and tablets change constantly - new OS versions, features disappearing, etc. It is not at all a “figure it out once and you’re good” situation. I ran into an issue a couple years ago where I was using an iPad app as an “instant replay” type device with buttons that triggered sounds. Due to an IOS bug, the audio was choppy when using a USB-C to 1/8” adaptor. It worked fine a couple months previously, and the next IOS update had a footnote that it solved that very issue. At our church, the tracks software that some others use worked great for years and then just stopped working. It works fine on a PC but won’t run on several iPads.

 

I’m sure someone will say “I never update my iPad/computer”. If that’s the case, I hope you never connect it to the internet.

[Aynsley Green]

23 hours ago, AnotherScott said:

I"m curious, what were the sources of the fiddliness?

 

How much time do you have?

Program changes for different plugins, Velocity curves for different plugins, doing something like having a Delay on Keyscape for just one section of the song turn on/off reliably, sounds cutting out when you change patches, gain staging between plugin and mixer, stereo imaging when running in Mono, unreliable USB cables into your interface, the power connector on your laptop coming out without you noticing, sitting your laptop somewhere not too obvious but still accessible, maintaining a whole separate install of Mac OS purely for Logic/Mainstage, iLok, online authorisations when you have no internet on tour, software/plugin updates not doing what you'd expect, Mainstage itself was pretty buggy back in the day, constantly having to worry about CPU usage - and still getting stutters for no good reason, especially in the heat, dear God. I'll say it again: Mainstage is totally unreliable outdoors in the heat.

 

Or...just bring your Fantom 06 or Nord Stage Compact in flight case (~15kg in total) with the whole show programmed in - with some homemade samples of your favourite plugins - and get on with your life.

 

13 hours ago, Baldwin Funster said:

It's not as fiddly as it has been made out be by detractors. It just seems like that because you would have a learning curve with interfaces and usb hubs and getting controllers to communicate with the iPad.

 

Once that unknown is conquered its pretty easy to set up. I will agree about extreme heat. But hardware is unreliable in high temps also, and I'm unreliable in those conditions too so I'm inclines to decline those gigs.

 

I must disagree, I found the fiddlyness enough to be a real distraction. There are enough things to worry about at sound-check, without your own gear acting up.

 

Having done probably 3000 gigs in the last 15 years, only once has hardware totally shit the bed mid-song - my Hammond SK2, which ended up needing a whole new motherboard - the build quality on the SK2 was never great in the first place.

The Mainstage rig crapped out every third gig, and I still see it happen to others to this very day. I see big touring bands running an A&B rig probably because it's necessary.

[AnotherScott]

20 minutes ago, Aynsley Green said:

How much time do you have?

Program changes for different plugins, Velocity curves for different plugins, doing something like having a Delay on Keyscape for just one section of the song turn on/off reliably, sounds cutting out when you change patches, gain staging between plugin and mixer, stereo imaging when running in Mono, unreliable USB cables into your interface, the power connector on your laptop coming out without you noticing, sitting your laptop somewhere not too obvious but still accessible, maintaining a whole separate install of Mac OS purely for Logic/Mainstage, iLok, online authorisations when you have no internet on tour, software/plugin updates not doing what you'd expect, Mainstage itself was pretty buggy back in the day, constantly having to worry about CPU usage - and still getting stutters for no good reason, especially in the heat, dear God. I'll say it again: Mainstage is totally unreliable outdoors in the heat.

 

I see. I'd say that some of that fiddliness would really be about initial configuration rather than fiddliness in operation once you had it configured (e.g. velocity curves, gain staging). Some of it might be solved by using Gig Performer instead of Mainstage (e.g. I think GP may have stronger capabilities when it comes to program changes and sounds not cutting out between VSTs?)... or maybe addressed in newer versions of Mainstage? Some of it is not exclusive to a software approach (e.g. making sure your stereo patches sound good in mono)... and for that matter, gain staging (i.e. creating consistent/expected volume when changing sounds) and having sounds not cut out when changing patches is common stuff to deal with in numerous hardware boards as well. I understand, these are all contributors to the experience as a whole, regardless. But in some of those cases, it sounds like the software approach isn't necessarily introducing new points of fiddliness, but is perhaps not solving some common existing hardware fiddliness that you would have hoped it would have. Maybe using software increases our expectations, because we don't expect it to still have some of the limitations we've experienced in hardware, it's part of what we wanted the software approach to solve. Maybe we're less tolerant of limitations?

 

But yes, there are also downsides, as you mention. USB connections indeed are not the most robust (nor are 1/8" connections, if one chooses to go without an external interface), nor are laptop power connections (so as you suggest, you could be running off battery without realizing it, which could throttle performance and/or eventually run out), and there are those ergonomic-and-safety considerations related to placement, ilok, a need to avoid system updates to reduce the risk of something changing behind your back. Also, additional setup time.

 

I've never used a Mac/PC for live sound, and only rarely an iPad. But I am tempted, and keep meaning to experiment more with this stuff at home. I always try to keep my hardware rig to two lightweight boards, and even though I have a stable to choose from, no matter which two I choose, I always seem to be missing something I'd like to have, that could conceivably be addressed that way, whether it's stronger organ, or (easy) custom sample triggering, or a particular sound that happens to be underwhelming for my usage...

[Aynsley Green]

31 minutes ago, AnotherScott said:

 

I see. I'd say that some of that fiddliness would really be about initial configuration rather than fiddliness in operation once you had it configured (e.g. velocity curves, gain staging). Some of it might be solved by using Gig Performer instead of Mainstage (e.g. I think GP may have stronger capabilities when it comes to program changes and sounds not cutting out between VSTs?)... or maybe addressed in newer versions of Mainstage? Some of it is not exclusive to a software approach (e.g. making sure your stereo patches sound good in mono)... and for that matter, gain staging (i.e. creating consistent/expected volume when changing sounds) and having sounds not cut out when changing patches is common stuff to deal with in numerous hardware boards as well. I understand, these are all contributors to the experience as a whole, regardless. But in some of those cases, it sounds like the software approach isn't necessarily introducing new points of fiddliness, but is perhaps not solving some common existing hardware fiddliness that you would have hoped it would have. Maybe using software increases our expectations, because we don't expect it to still have some of the limitations we've experienced in hardware, it's part of what we wanted the software approach to solve. Maybe we're less tolerant of limitations?

 

Being able to pivot in the heat of battle is the big one - fixing EQ or Volume, or suddenly needing some random patch like an Accordion - Mainstage is not great for that quick problem solving in a rehearsal/soundcheck/mid-song, and I've been caught out by it before.

'Just program the whole show and step through the patches' people say - but 80% of shows the set list changes, requests, singer pulls out random songs, you're down a horn player, etc. Your job as keyboardist is a problem solver - you need to have an interface that can fix issues fast.

[Baldwin Funster]

2 hours ago, Aynsley Green said:

 

...Having done probably 3000 gigs in the last 15 years, only once has hardware totally shit the bed mid-song - my Hammond SK2, which ended up needing a whole new motherboard - the build quality on the SK2 was never great in the first place.

The Mainstage rig crapped out every third .....

Well I can't claim I did 200 gigs a year for the last 15 years so you got me beat there. But you don't say how long ago you tried the software route.

It's important because the topic is ipad specifically and MY point is about the most recent iOS only.

If you asked me 2 years ago I would have moaned about many of the same complaints from using my iPad mini4. It is way underpowered and not reliable enough with the apps I like to run smoothly. 

But the game has changed with the iPad 9th Gen and iOS 15. Cpu power handles my needs easily, and battery power is unbelievably long, 10 hours.

Any problems I've had were from old hubs I bought and used from like 6 years ago. I bought some on close-out and used the heck out of them, and when I had a couple of incidents (in extreme heat mind you) I trouble shot them out and my rig has been rock solid.

One place I can't defend an iPad rig is flimsy connectors and cableing. It makes me nervous when any body looks like they are going to walk behind my setup in the area of my cableing because one misstep of some oafs big shoe and I'm probably done for the gig. It's not road ready or clumsy oaf proof. I do local gigs only and turn down long distance stuff. I'd like to see somebody specialize in pro grade cables and connectors for USB gear.

[ImproKeys]

21 hours ago, drawback said:

I’m using B-3X with my CK61 using USB-audio. The action is by far better than the YC61. I’ve tweaked the ‘78 Rhodes and the CFX piano more to my liking, surprisingly you can do a lot with so few sound shaping controls. 

Would you mind sharing your settings, as I am trying to do this as well?

[Reezekeys]

For those of us in this game longer than we may care to admit, getting to the gig, schlepping gear, setting up, etc. is what gets old the fastest. This is one of the main things the iPad & controller world (and previously, the laptop & controller world) addresses - not necessarily sound quality (though I’ll posit that laptops with higher-end plugins can usually sound better than any hardware board). Speaking for myself, my “compromise slider” has shifted a bit as I age. I mostly use my 12 lb Altos on local gigs, not the 27 lb QSCs (and before that, 51 lb Mackies). They don’t sound as good – but they’re good enough. Such is it with my iPad bread & butter sounds. Each of us picks their own sweet spot wrt mobility, ease of setup, ability to cover the sounds & preset switching we need, etc. I’m probably lucky in that I only use “bread & butter” sounds, nothing else - though I also need to trigger loops and use a few presets with splits here & there. I think it’s fair to say the instruments and other music software on iPads (and maybe all tablets in general) has progressed a lot in the last few years. Thanks to apps like Midiflow and Streambyter, I can pretty much do what a $3 - $4K workstation board can. The biggest downer for me (as highlighted in this thread a few times) is the mess of hubs, CCKs, and other cable doodads to get connected to the outside world - then again these things are general-purpose computing devices and Apple prioritises the “clean look” of few ports and wireless connectivity. A bit of a drag but not a deal-breaker for me.

 

17 hours ago, Alkeys said:

I thought iPad might work for the sake of portability but sounds like cords and batteries etc are more fiddly than worth the hassle.

 

I had my share of "fiddly-ness" with the CCK and iPad. After a while I found an order for turning things on and loading the software that works 95% of the time. for the other 5%, where my keyboard fails to show up as a midi source, I unplug then re-plug my CCK and that always fixes it.

 

On 8/4/2023 at 3:13 PM, Ibarch said:

People spend huge amounts of time discussing the best pianos, the best Hammonds, the best Leslie, the best Rhodes etc. Then the same people say they are moving to an iPad. Which has none of the best sounds of anything. 

 

Or they happily listen to their "best" in mono, because... it's more convenient for the sound person and the audience "can't tell." 🙂 

[drawback]

2 hours ago, ImproKeys said:

Would you mind sharing your settings, as I am trying to do this as well?

PM sent.

[cassdad]

For me:  Hardware beats the software sounds I’ve heard (so far).  I’ve not personally heard Keyscape, but to my old ears, Hammond B3X, Pianoteq, and Mainstage voices, do not sound nor “play” as well as the one simple old 88-note keyboard I use (Yamaha MOXF8) which with piano-like action, still only weighs 31 pounds.  And that’s all I bring.  Come on, with some 1200 quality, responsive voices on tap in one keyboard, I thus far have been able to find whatever voices I’ve needed to date for live band performances.

 

For me, “sound” is not just about what comes out of the speakers - it includes the player to instrument connection, expressiveness, ease of choosing & changing sounds, and the set-up and tear-down.  And, as a professional, “dependability” has to be job one.  I only use 1 board, and plug it directly into a new Motion Sound KP-612S (which has it’s own mixer and tone controls).  Keep it simple.  There’s enough other problems to worry about at every venue and performance.  At least limit the ones over which I have control.

 

IMO, plugging in the keyboard power and then plugging it into the amp is just about as straight-forward and dependable a set-up as one can get.  All my controls and sounds are ready at the touch, and it has never failed me yet (including summer heat and beach winter-time condensation).  I find using a computer for sounds to be a nightmare for live, real-time control, riddled with tenuous connections and adapters.

 

I want to join the computer revolution, but someone has to make it a lot easier, more expressive/responsive, and more dependable before I will feel comfortable doing so.  I know, old school, apologies.