Back to a workstation? Anything out there with a good sequencer?

[Nostalgia4Infinity]

I’ve been pretty modular in my approach and am moving back to more studio work and am considering a more all in one 88 key workstation with a good sequencer for putting together ideas and even full songs for solo or duo performances.

 

I have a MODX6 which I will keep as a 2nd tier but the sequencer is not really sufficient.

The Korg Kronos/Nautilus seem frustrating for sequencing.

The Fantom’s are pattern and not linear and bar limited but seem very intuitive.

Montage is out unless they improve the sequencer.

I need:

 

Piano and Epianos that cut through live 

intuitive sequencer for full songs

Aftertouch.

Ability to send Midi CC’s from a ‘control’ track

reliable build quality

Good 88 key weighted action

 

Any thoughts? Experiences?

 

 

 

 

 

[stoken6]

The market has moved to PCs and tablets. Logic on an iPad would be a great accompaniment to your MODX.

 

Cheers, Mike.

[Motif88]

I’ve gone from pre-midi synths and a Dyno-My-Piano Rhodes, to MIDI master controller (KX-88) with synths, to a bunch of workstations and back to a weighted 88 key stage piano that is also a great midi controller.

 

You mention more studio work but also performances. Based on the need for 88 weighted keys, I assume weight and size are not factors. Not sure aftertouch on the Fantom 8 is very effective otherwise, it would be my primary keyboard in place of my RD-2000 with a Hydrasynth Deluxe.

 

1. Wait for the Montage replacement

2 Can you play a Fantom 8 locally? The PHA-50 keyboard is great if you feel comfortable with the level of aftertouch control, or lack thereof.

[D. Gauss]

Maybe i'm weird, but i just can't see the attraction of a workstation in this day and age of laptops and ipads.

[ProfD]

5 minutes ago, D. Gauss said:

Maybe i'm weird, but i just can't see the attraction of a workstation in this day and age of laptops and ipads.

The KB workstation just provides a self-contained, plug and play alternative to using separate pieces.   

 

When I'm playing a KB workstation and a musical idea pops into my head, I can turn on the sequencer to capture and save it.

 

The cool thing is that nowadays, data can be exchanged between a KB workstation and a DAW. 

 

I can bounce between my Nautilus and MPC software seamlessly.😎

[Stokely]

It can, but I see tons of posts on the Modx facebook group (the only use I have anymore for FB!) about problems with inter-connectivity.

I went computer in the late 80s and never looked back.  However, as some of us commented in another thread, you are taking on a "burden" of knowing you will have to deal with computer-y problems to some extent.  I can whip up an idea very quickly with Logic, you can set up templates with drummer tracks, bass/synth/organ/whatever ready to record.  Just change the tempo as desired, change time signatures where they need to be changed (if applicable) and start recording.

I've owned a number of workstations but don't know a thing about how to sequence on them   Last keyboard I sequenced on was some Ensoniq in 1991 or so!

I'd check out more focused groups for the specific products, there still are a lot of people using workstations as workstations...just not this crowd as much I'd wager! 

[ElmerJFudd]

Second hand Korg Kronos 2 at an excellent price.  

[AnotherScott]

Guitar Center still sells the MOXF8 new. Other than that, I don't think anyone but Korg and Kurzweil make workstations (boards with traditional editable multitrack linear sequencers) anymore. Maybe Akai MPC Key? I haven't really looked into that one.

[ElmerJFudd]

MPC Keys 

 

or an MPC Live II with the keyboard you have. 

[drawback]

I’ve been checking out the MPC Key61, with a lot of online research and in person. It would make a good workstation but hasn’t the quality bread’n’butter sounds, and the keyboard is too highly sprung to be playable over a length of time. Loved the interface and the concept, though. 

[Nostalgia4Infinity]

3 hours ago, D. Gauss said:

Maybe i'm weird, but i just can't see the attraction of a workstation in this day and age of laptops and ipads.

Oh - I have all that believe me.  I am wrapping up a kind of Motown-inspired setup with multi-channel audio and MIDI moving from Sonar X Pro to Studio One Pro (5).  Plus have a zillion other ITB and OTB musical idea transcription devices and approahes - Aurio Pro, GB, Korg SOS, etc.... It is kind of a sickness LOL.  This is a special use case where I want the immediacy of a single source.  It will never compete with the power and sound of a full-fledged DAW system.  I am hoping to edge my studio out of prosumer soon with the addition of a little bit more upscale outboard.

[Nostalgia4Infinity]

2 hours ago, Stokely said:

It can, but I see tons of posts on the Modx facebook group (the only use I have anymore for FB!) about problems with inter-connectivity.

I went computer in the late 80s and never looked back.  However, as some of us commented in another thread, you are taking on a "burden" of knowing you will have to deal with computer-y problems to some extent.  I can whip up an idea very quickly with Logic, you can set up templates with drummer tracks, bass/synth/organ/whatever ready to record.  Just change the tempo as desired, change time signatures where they need to be changed (if applicable) and start recording.

I've owned a number of workstations but don't know a thing about how to sequence on them   Last keyboard I sequenced on was some Ensoniq in 1991 or so!

I'd check out more focused groups for the specific products, there still are a lot of people using workstations as workstations...just not this crowd as much I'd wager! 

Yes - I am very much computer based for my main studio, and yes with all the headaches.  Funny you mention Ensoniq.  I currently have a ZR76 which is just a fantastic board for capturing ideas as it always records to the ID pad and has killer drum sounds and workable scratch-pad patterns.  I can absolutely still use it as a controller for my DAW even though it has the classic data wheel issue, and it is wholly unreliable and unweildly as a live controller.  

 

I am on this network as referred to from the Gear Space group, but just starting to dip my toes into the community.  Thanks for the feedback!

[Nostalgia4Infinity]

2 hours ago, ElmerJFudd said:

Second hand Korg Kronos 2 at an excellent price.  

Yes, this board has definitely caught my attention.  My concern is with the ease of use of the sequencer.  My research so far has given me a headache when I see demos and instructions.  However, if you can convince me of it's useability this might indeed be the one because I really would prefer the linear recording capability.  

[Nostalgia4Infinity]

1 hour ago, AnotherScott said:

Guitar Center still sells the MOXF8 new. Other than that, I don't think anyone but Korg and Kurzweil make workstations (boards with traditional editable multitrack linear sequencers) anymore. Maybe Akai MPC Key? I haven't really looked into that one.

Ooh, the Akai - I kind of forgot about that.  Does the MOXF8 have aftertouch?  I am not mad at the Yamaha pianos for live use.  I used to have a MOTIF 8 (original), which had a nightmarish sequencer.  I do find my MODX6 sequencer workable but lacks some things I really want to do - More 'scenes' for song sections, and the ability to transmit Midi CC's to control program changes on my HX Stomp as I would be playing guitar along with recorded tracks.  

[ElmerJFudd]

6 minutes ago, Nostalgia4Infinity said:

Ooh, the Akai - I kind of forgot about that.  Does the MOXF8 have aftertouch?  I am not mad at the Yamaha pianos for live use.  I used to have a MOTIF 8 (original), which had a nightmarish sequencer.  I do find my MODX6 sequencer workable but lacks some things I really want to do - More 'scenes' for song sections, and the ability to transmit Midi CC's to control program changes on my HX Stomp as I would be playing guitar along with recorded tracks.  

The Akai is basically a computer now, you would be well impressed with what comes with it for sounds, how it integrates and transfers back and forth with a Mac/PC.  

[Nostalgia4Infinity]

Thanks everyone for the excellent feedback.  I am going to elaborate just a little more on where I am at, and where I want to go.

 

Over the last several years I was pursuing more performing (I already have an ITB home studio), trying to put together a 'melodic' pop jazz style group (think Rippington's, Mindi Abair, Yellowjackets) as I love the stuff and wanted to do less programming and more inter-active playing with real musicians.  I knew it would be a challenge and after some near misses and a lot of investment I am putting that dream on the back-shelf for the moment.  To cover this live setup I went with lightweight stage options and I currently have set up right now a Kurzweil SP6, a MODX6 for second tier (frustrating MIDI receive setup but that's another story), and a Voce V5 drawbar organ module.  That covers the bases but I have not really bonded with the Kurzweil sounds as the piano's accoustic and electric just did not seem to cut through the mix in this context.  Plus, I like to use aftertouch to control Leslie speed and vibrato (LFO) on lead patches, particularly as my hands are tied up with other parts.  

 

So.... this led me to think of something like the Numa X GT, or even a Nord Stage option - something along that line and trade in the Kurz.

 

But now that the full group performance thing is on hold  I am steering toward more pop covers to play guitar and sing as a solo or possibly due or trio without drums so am back to programming (Have done a lot of this over the years in various contexts but it has been a while).  This is what is leading me back to consider a workstation, but it MUST be able to be easy to sequence on and immediate and have at least decent enough piano and electric piano sounds to cut through when performing live.  Plus it would give me another controller option potentially.  My MODX *can* work and I don't mind it's sequencer but it is very limited and doesn't give me a CC control track that I desire).

[Nostalgia4Infinity]

OK - I see the Akai does not have an 88 key option, but it might make sense to pair it with a MODX8, and trade out the MODX6 and Kurz.  Hmmmm... I might indeed check this out!  

[Viv Savage]

Really just speaking to the ease of use of the linear sequencer, I would recommend taking a look at the Roland FA-07 from around 2017, which can be found pretty cheap nowadays.  Incredibly easy for capturing ideas and creating backing tracks.  Also: great variety of onboard sounds and decent ones in the categories you mention.  Plus sample pads with easy playback of samples direct from SD card.

[AnotherScott]

42 minutes ago, Nostalgia4Infinity said:

Does the MOXF8 have aftertouch? 

No.

 

2 minutes ago, Viv Savage said:

Really just speaking to the ease of use of the linear sequencer, I would recommend taking a look at the Roland FA-07 from around 2017, which can be found pretty cheap nowadays. 

With built-in workstation-style sequencers falling out of favor, looking for something older/used might be a route worth exploring. The FA isn't even that old, I think they only discontinued it about a year ago. Also recently discontinued is the Korg Krome, which has the piano-roll style sequencer that some people have wished Kronos/Nautilus had, IIRC.

[ABECK]

If you are already familiar with Kurzweil, the PC4 and K2700 both have onboard sequencers.  I wouldn't do serious sequencing editing on mine, but for simple, linear recordings, they are fairly intuitive.

[felis]

I was surprised it took this long for someone to mention Kurzweil.  

I started computer sequencing back when it was midi only, but it's still handy to have a keyboard sequencer.

You wouldn't want to do serious editing with it, but transfer it to a computer later.

I love the Kurzweil sequencer partly because it records release velocity, which even some DAW's can't do.

[ProfD]

The Akai MPC KEY61 is awesome from a music production (workstation) perspective.

 

The main reason I picked up a Nautilus 73 instead is because the MPC KEY61 doesn't *feel* right as an instrument. 

 

Otherwise, the MPC KEY61 definitely answers the mail according to the OP's needs.

 

From a player perspective, I would slide an 88-note KB MIDI controller underneath the MPC KEY61. 😁😎

[ElmerJFudd]

https://www.reddit.com/r/akaiMPC/comments/118z8ov/live_2_or_key_61/

 

Discussion on the MPC Live 2 vs the Keys 61.  I found it helpful. 
 

 

[GovernorSilver]

Good comparison of the MPC models:

https://www.mpc-tutor.com/mpc-buyers-guide-mpc-one-vs-mpc-live-ii-vs-mpc-x/

 

Whichever model you get, you'll want to invest in MPC Bible, as it practically holds your hand and gently walks you through the MPC learning journey - how to use the sequencer, how to work with samples, how to set up keygroups, how to work with plugins, etc.  It's updated regularly to keep up with MPC firmware and software updates.

 

https://www.mpc-samples.com/product.php/268/mpc-bible/

[Paul Woodward]

I know you want a workstation but have you considered something like a Studiologic SL studio or grand. Two midi out and USB with weighted keybed and aftertouch. Lot of flexibility there to pair with an iPad (and module, gadget, or Logic) and the flexibility to run other stuff off it as you need it.

[Motif88]

I'm confused... you started with more studio work but with references to a built in sequencer but recent comments go towards the NUMA and Nord Stage?

 

Remind me of the original criteria?...

 

FYI - don't feel bad,I'm in the same boat. Despite all my hardware/software I seem to be longing of the immediacy that a Nord Stage 4 88 might provide.

[Nostalgia4Infinity]

5 hours ago, Motif88 said:

I'm confused... you started with more studio work but with references to a built in sequencer but recent comments go towards the NUMA and Nord Stage?

 

Remind me of the original criteria?...

 

FYI - don't feel bad,I'm in the same boat. Despite all my hardware/software I seem to be longing of the immediacy that a Nord Stage 4 88 might provide.

Yeah I am hard to follow as I am all over the map. I did post earlier with more details but my stage setup was for a full band and I’d like to go back to a simple workstation to put together tracks to accompany myself solo or hopefully even better a duo or trio.  I tried with the MODX6 but it doesn’t go far enough.  I am pretty set studio-wise. It would most likely replace my Kurzweil SP6.  
 

[Nostalgia4Infinity]

I checked out the FA-08 a little more and it absolutely looks like a great replacement for my SP6. If it had aftertouch and velocity sensitive pads it would be icing on the proverbial cake, but the pricing looks really good and it seems to get mostly favorable reviews.

I hadn’t considered the ‘Fantom’ line much as I always thought the UI was difficult but this one looks like a departure.

[CB3000]

On 7/28/2023 at 9:38 AM, ElmerJFudd said:

Second hand Korg Kronos 2 at an excellent price.  

Agreed. If you want a bigger screen, find a good KORG OASYS. It's the same interface. Its big and heavy, but its my go to for dropping quick ideas. In all my experience, I haven't found any workstations that are more straightforward than those made by KORG.

[ProfD]

On 7/30/2023 at 6:48 PM, Nostalgia4Infinity said:

I checked out the FA-08 a little more and it absolutely looks like a great replacement for my SP6. If it had aftertouch and velocity sensitive pads.

While I'm not a fan of their sounds, IMO, with the inclusion of velocity sensitivity pads, Roland has the best workstation on the market nowadays.😎