Pianoteq iOS

[Reezekeys]

4 hours ago, Dr Mike Metlay said:

1. If you have never tried Pianoteq, your opinion on it is therefore unsubstantiated. This colors everything that follows.

 

Sorry Mike, I don't think I stated an opinion about Pianoteq one way or the other, just my somewhat triggered reaction to seeing it called "certainly the best." In my postings I always try to be careful and  preface my opinions with "imo" or something similar. This being music and the tools of music-making, I don't presume to know or state what is the "best" anything when it comes to this stuff! Only what works for me. It turns out that brenner13 has compared many of the iOS pianos so his opinion is more informed than I gave him credit for. My bad! I should probably not have posted at all! Lesson learned. I did try an earlier version of Pianoteq but will definitely try the latest one now.

 

As a former amateur programmer I'm enormously impressed by just the idea that a small software company can pull this off, given the dearth of other modeled pianos out there. I kinda wonder why there are so few players in the modeled piano game. This reminds me of Roland's S/A pianos of the 1980s - we heard the same thing about how the limitations of sample switching were eliminated by that tech, and how a piano note's timbre could shift gradually with each midi velocity increment. Despite this, Roland abandoned S/A. Maybe they were ahead of their time? I got myself an MKS-20 and used it happily for a few years - before disk streaming multiple-layer samples were common.

 

5 hours ago, Dr Mike Metlay said:

But if you’re going to raise objections toward something that you’ve never tried, based solely on your personal reaction to the reactions of people who have, expect pushback.

 

I really don't think I "raised objections" to PT other than noting some people do still prefer sampled pianos, which is based on my reading posts here the last ten or so years. I actually didn't even mean that in an argumentative way, though I understand how it could be seen that way!

 

5 hours ago, Dr Mike Metlay said:

I don’t care if you try Pianoteq or not. I don’t care if you hate it. But at least devote a little time to form your own opinions based on actual experience. 
 

Speaking personally, I would be very interested to read a post from you about your experiences with Pianoteq, with your own opinions on what it does well, and what it does not. The free demo should be more than enough for that. If you don’t think that’s a good use of your time, that’s fine. 

 

I know for sure I would not hate it! I remember trying a version a few years ago and liking it just fine, just not enough to replace the piano I was using. I'm probably an outlier here - I don't do much recording anymore, mostly live gigs, so I need a piano that works in that context - a good, "close" dry sound without a lot of resonances but having the "extras" a good sampled piano has, like release samples, sus pedal resonances, etc. The more complex pianos (many with "baked-in" ambience in the samples) tend to suffer through my PPAs, not sure why. Actually, I'm pretty sure most people would put my piano of choice for gigs (Native Instrument's New York) pretty low on the list of good sampled pianos these days, given its age. I've even read posts from people that think it's a terrible piano! All I know is that I've used it for many years and have been completely satisfied with how it sounds and feels to me on gigs.

 

Anyway let me end this novella. I'll download and try Pianoteq iOS and happily eat any of my previous words that may have appeared to cast aspersions on it, should it be a revelation to my music-making (not that anyone would give a rat's ass what I think anyway!). 🙂 

[Reezekeys]

9 hours ago, Jose EB5AGV said:

9 hours ago, Reezekeys said:

One bummer is that from what I read in Nievski's post above, it will probably not run well (or at all?) on my original iPhone SE (2016). That's the last & most powerful iPhone with a headphone jack and it runs my current AUM setup with my sampled piano nicely.

 

I guess your iPhone will run Pianoteq nicely, as it uses an A9 processor and on my iPad Air 2, with an A8X, runs fine.

 

Please, let us know if you try it.

 

Jose

 

Interesting because Nievski's post said "it was sucking wind on my original iPad Air (A7) and iPhone 7 Plus (A10). Very easy to overload those CPUs and start throttling to keep temperatures down." The iPhone SE (2016) has the guts of the iPhone 6+, one generation older than the 7+ he describes as having problems. Maybe it's the buffer size setting? Easy to check for myself so that's what I'll be doing in the next day or two.

[Nievski]

7 hours ago, Jazz+ said:

So if your newer Apple devices do not have headphone jacks, then I assume you must find a USB C dual-purpose dongle with an audio output (headphone jack) and a USCB MIDI IN ("camera adapter")? 

 

I don't see many for sale.

 

This is a jury-rigged lightning setup - all battery operated! 

- Apple USB3 Lightning Adapter

- 2x USB 3.5mm sound cards (Vention and UGreen)

- 2x USB 2-port hubs (Orico)

- iPhone 11 (Lightning)

- Korg microKey Air 49

 

Notes:

 

[Nievski]

11 hours ago, Reezekeys said:

One bummer is that from what I read in Nievski's post above, it will probably not run well (or at all?) on my original iPhone SE (2016). That's the last & most powerful iPhone with a headphone jack and it runs my current AUM setup with my sampled piano nicely.

 

I'm going to change my review of Pianoteq on my older hardware!!!
*** Pianoteq runs fine on the iPhone 7 Plus (2016 / A10 CPU) ***
*** Pianoteq runs okay on the original iPad Air (2013 / A7 CPU) ***

 

I went back and disabled anything that eats CPU cycles (Widgets, Notifications, Siri, WIFI and Bluetooth) and then did a stress test with the Steinway D Classical preset (4 mics).

 

iPhone 7 Plus (2016 / A10 CPU) PI = 30 - 70
It came close to cracking, but it held steady even with the pedal down and hitting a full 128 polyphony! Still wide fluctuations in the performance index but it doesn't overload the CPU.

 

iPad Air (2013 / A7 CPU) PI = 33
Had to half the sample rate to get it stable (22050 down from 44100 Hz). Basically the same performance as a Raspberry Pi or Odroid N2+. Fairly stable, though I did get a little click once in awhile - but still very usable!

 

Notes:

- My iPhone 11 handles Pianoteq fine, even with all the Widgets/Notifications etc. ON.
- Please keep in mind, performance may suffer if you use the device in hot weather.

[Fleer]

Pianoteq runs fine on my original iPad Air (first gen). 
As for the sampled-vs-modeled debate, though I can understand the merits of some sampled ones (and I have dozens) on a Mac, this is different on iOS, as there are not many, if any, large sampled grands except for Ravenscroft. And that one’s surely flawed compared to the Mac version. 
Pianoteq easily rules supreme as long as there are no 50GB pianos on iOS. And even then. No sampled piano lives up to Pianoteq’s playability and real piano feel, even on a Mac. 

[jejefunkyman]

While I praise the concept, and the universality of the app between MacOS and iOS, I still don't like the sound I get from Pianoteq.

 

I tried different presets, different piano variants, and different tweaks, but I can't find something I like. I guess I'm too much hooked on a certain type of sound after many years playing my SV1 and SV2. 

 

As far as playability is concerned, I don't feel any real difference between playing PTQ and my SV2 pianos. I recognize though there's a difference with the Synthogy pianos in Korg Module. Of course I'm not a classical or proficient piano player, and I didn't spend years playing a real acoustic piano, so my opinion is surely different from other people here who have a different background. 

 

I'm also pretty disappointed by the Rhodes piano sounds, as I had great expectations from them as I already mentioned before in the forum. 

 

For acoustic pianos, my reference is really the Italian variant of the SV2. So if somebody is able to show me how to get close to this sound with PTQ, I'm all ears 😄

 

Finally I'd say that there's no need to get into nasty debates on whether modeled or sampled pianos are better: I believe everyone can find something he likes in the large available choice of piano apps one can find today on various platforms. It's incredible how people can fight for such non important things 😂 This statement is more valid for what I see in other forums where I hook up...

[Radagast]

I wonder if there is a difference between people who play digital pianos and those who play real pianos, when it comes to liking or disliking the sound of Pianoteq.  And in case anyone is wondering, neither do I work for Modarrt nor do I have any financial interest in the company.

[CyberGene]

24 minutes ago, Radagast said:

I wonder if there is a difference between people who play digital pianos and those who play real pianos, when it comes to liking or disliking the sound of Pianoteq.

There’s some truth to that. I believe those who are professional classical pianists, playing predominantly on acoustic pianos, seem to prefer sampled pianos, for instance David Lai, Philip Johnston, Gamma1734. 

[Thethirdapple]

11 minutes ago, CyberGene said:

There’s some truth to that. I believe those who are professional classical pianists, playing predominantly on acoustic pianos, seem to prefer sampled pianos, for instance David Lai, Philip Johnston, Gamma1734. 

45 minutes ago, Radagast said:

I wonder if there is a difference between people who play digital pianos and those who play real pianos, when it comes to liking or disliking the sound of Pianoteq.  And in case anyone is wondering, neither do I work for Modarrt nor do I have any financial interest in the company.

Seems to be a simple question of an acoustic (naturally occurring) sound vs. a sound produced thru electricity. The harmonics of an acoustic piano as well as the “noise” coming from the playing of said instrument is the number one difference for me.

 

We may all have our favorite headphone, amp, or loudspeaker system which is most likely completely different from the one which the sound engineers had when creating the sound profile of any electronic instrument. And of course room dynamic is also true whether accoustic or amplified sound.

 

I have been following Dave Rat’s youtube channel for awhile, and he has some interesting projects about what sounds “real”:

 

[Polkahero]

I downloaded the free version to my iPad Pro 12.9 (2017).  Haven't connected it yet to my Kawai ES920 for comparison.  Can this modeled software be better than the sample in my Kawai?  I'm used to 256 note polyphony now coming from the 128 on my Yamaha MODX which didn't cut it.  Still hesitant on the whole software thing.

[Reezekeys]

I'm putting a short video together comparing Pianoteq to my current piano of choice on iOS. Other than a Mac demo years ago, I have no experience at all with PT. Short story - really nice, better in some ways than mine (which I'm not shocked about), but to my ears and fingers they're very close in terms of playability and playing satisfaction. I'll expound more when I post the video but will say for sure that I'd be more than happy using this software on a gig!

[drawback]

How many folks realize that they can click on the Options button and then the Instruments cart to select the Pro version to try in iOS? That’ll show what Pianoteq is capable of. Granted, those (I am one) who probably aren’t going to spring for the Pro level just to use it on iPads (which could be the price of an iPad itself), it still may shed some light in the possibilities. You might get a decent Rhodes out of it, too, although the modelling of VTines is pretty close for a lot less money. 

[yannis D]

I played for about an hour some classical pieces and some old boleros through my Yamaha Silent piano (best action I could find) and I must say that Pianoteq is gorgeous. Super nuanced from the box and many sweet variations. The Steinway D classical setting is superb IMO.  

[Ibarch]

Modarrt deserve enormous respect for releasing Pianoteq on iOS. This is no small feat. It is challenging enough to create a good port of any application given the artifical limits iOS imposes. This still applies even if written from the ground up to be cross platform. To create such a quality app with the demands of real time audio is amazing. 

 

For those people who aren't comfortable with the pricing, please consider the straight jacket Apple place developers in commercially. If Modarrt sell this as an iOS app, Apple will help themselves to 30% of the revenue. By releasing it as an add on only to the existing PC/Mac software with no option to purchase on iOS, Modarrt avoid the Apple tax. Another seriously smart move from the company to complement their software and audio engineering. 

[Reezekeys]

Here is my little experiment with Pianoteq comparing it to the iOS piano I use on all my gigs now. This is an old Real Book chestnut I improvise on for too long (five points to the first person who can “name that tune”!) I repeat the first rubato chorus so as to showcase both pianos, then switch between them in the coffee-fueled choruses that follow. It was getting too long & repetitive so to spare everybody I faded before finishing. The point is to compare the sounds and I think there’s more than enough material to do that.

 

I’m going to leave it at that for right now. It’s probably obvious which of the pianos is Pianoteq. As I mentioned in another post, I’m not familiar with all of Pianoteq’s features and controls but did my best to program a similar kind of piano to what I’m used to, using the Steinway D Jazz. I calibrated the velocity response of my controller as directed and adjusted the EQ to match as close as possible what I like in a piano sound. I also matched levels as best I could and put a little reverb on both pianos. I enjoyed playing Pianoteq! I do have some thoughts and opinions but will keep my mouth shut (for now) as I’m kinda interested in folks’ initial reactions (if anyone actually cares to listen to this!). The video is unlisted. Looking forward to hearing any reactions!

 

 

[DeltaJockey]

Only listening on small monitors, and am not familiar with the ios piano. At first I thought the first one was PT, but got a bit confused after you started playing the second one.

I think I liked the sound of the first piano, particularity more down in the bass register. The both sounded pretty reasonable for gigging performance though.

 

Not clued up enough to recognise the tune though, sorry!

[DeltaJockey]

Might be time for me to try the iOS version. I was wondering if that already owning PT Pro 8, whether it was a separate purchase. But I interpret in the App store that you just have to enter you licence number! Yay!

[Reezekeys]

Yes if you already have PT Pro 8 then the iOS version is free!

[ElmerJFudd]

32 minutes ago, Reezekeys said:

Here is my little experiment with Pianoteq comparing it to the iOS piano I use on all my gigs now. This is an old Real Book chestnut I improvise on for too long (five points to the first person who can “name that tune”!) I repeat the first rubato chorus so as to showcase both pianos, then switch between them in the coffee-fueled choruses that follow. It was getting too long & repetitive so to spare everybody I faded before finishing. The point is to compare the sounds and I think there’s more than enough material to do that.

 

I’m going to leave it at that for right now. It’s probably obvious which of the pianos is Pianoteq. As I mentioned in another post I’m not familiar with all of Pianoteq’s features and controls but did my best to program a similar kind of piano to what I’m used to, using the Steinway D Jazz. I calibrated the velocity response of my controller as directed and adjusted the EQ to match as close as possible what I like in a piano sound. I also matched levels as best I could and put a little reverb on both pianos. I enjoyed playing Pianoteq! I do have some thoughts and opinions but will keep my mouth shut (for now) as I’m kinda interested in folks’ initial reactions (if anyone actually cares to listen to this!). The video is unlisted. Looking forward to hearing any reactions!

 

 

Well, shit.   Your improv was so pleasing I had to go get some headphones because my laptop speakers can't reveal anything.  

Are you using a Steinway D on both Pianoteq and (i'm guessing, Korg Module?).  I can hear you did make an effort to get something similar going on there.  

 

If I had to guess Pianoteq is #1 because there isn't as much variation in the sound of the attack on each key as there is on the sampled piano, which I think is #2 due to the quality of and variety in the attack - key to key.  The stereo spread and mic positioning is not the same on both examples and the reverb doesn't match up - #2 is definitely wetter.  I could be entirely off, of course.  But that is my guess.  

 

Thank you for once again making me feel like I won't be happy until I've dragged a matching pair of monitors out to get a decent solo piano sound.  

[Al Quinn]

1 hour ago, Reezekeys said:

Here is my little experiment with Pianoteq comparing it to the iOS piano I use on all my gigs now. This is an old Real Book chestnut I improvise on for too long (five points to the first person who can “name that tune”!) I repeat the first rubato chorus so as to showcase both pianos, then switch between them in the coffee-fueled choruses that follow. It was getting too long & repetitive so to spare everybody I faded before finishing. The point is to compare the sounds and I think there’s more than enough material to do that.

 

I’m going to leave it at that for right now. It’s probably obvious which of the pianos is Pianoteq. As I mentioned in another post, I’m not familiar with all of Pianoteq’s features and controls but did my best to program a similar kind of piano to what I’m used to, using the Steinway D Jazz. I calibrated the velocity response of my controller as directed and adjusted the EQ to match as close as possible what I like in a piano sound. I also matched levels as best I could and put a little reverb on both pianos. I enjoyed playing Pianoteq! I do have some thoughts and opinions but will keep my mouth shut (for now) as I’m kinda interested in folks’ initial reactions (if anyone actually cares to listen to this!). The video is unlisted. Looking forward to hearing any reactions!

 

 

I prefer #1. I hear more dynamics in your performance. Not only the lines but also how you’re voicing the chords (I.e., I’m using voicing as a verb rather than a noun here). I’m guessing #1 is Pianoteq.

 

#2 seems to have less dynamic range. I hear less nuance in your performance. More of the notes seem to be triggering on the louder side. Of course, this can be because of how the velocity parameters are set.

 

I don’t recognize the song but the style sounds like something Chick Corea would write and perform duo with Gary Burton.
 

Nice playing Rob! It’s always a treat hearing you play 🎵 

[Nievski]

Thank you for posting the video, nice playing! Both pianos sound great for a gig/performance. I agree that #1 sounds more nuanced and dynamic, it comes across as having a more "singing" quality. #2 has more richness/depth and sounds more "percussive".  My guess #1 is Pianoteq, but after a 2nd and 3rd listen, my ears started getting confused!

 

2 hours ago, Reezekeys said:

Here is my little experiment with Pianoteq comparing it to the iOS piano I use on all my gigs now.

 

 

[Mighty Motif Max]

2 hours ago, Reezekeys said:

Here is my little experiment with Pianoteq comparing it to the iOS piano I use on all my gigs now. This is an old Real Book chestnut I improvise on for too long (five points to the first person who can “name that tune”!) I repeat the first rubato chorus so as to showcase both pianos, then switch between them in the coffee-fueled choruses that follow. It was getting too long & repetitive so to spare everybody I faded before finishing. The point is to compare the sounds and I think there’s more than enough material to do that.

 

I’m going to leave it at that for right now. It’s probably obvious which of the pianos is Pianoteq. As I mentioned in another post, I’m not familiar with all of Pianoteq’s features and controls but did my best to program a similar kind of piano to what I’m used to, using the Steinway D Jazz. I calibrated the velocity response of my controller as directed and adjusted the EQ to match as close as possible what I like in a piano sound. I also matched levels as best I could and put a little reverb on both pianos. I enjoyed playing Pianoteq! I do have some thoughts and opinions but will keep my mouth shut (for now) as I’m kinda interested in folks’ initial reactions (if anyone actually cares to listen to this!). The video is unlisted. Looking forward to hearing any reactions!

 

 

I like the first piano much more - I am guessing Piano 2 is Pianoteq perhaps, from some of the resonances I'm hearing. But if it's Piano 1, then that's one good piano. Is the other piano your sampled version of the NI New York Grand?

[drawback]

I like the second piano; the mid-lower octaves are sounding less metallic and even with the narrower stereo spread I think the overall tone is richer. You seem to be handling the velocity better as well. I’m thinking #1 is Pianoteq and #2 is your trusty self-sampled version.

 

Nice playing 😎

[HammondDave]

On 5/5/2023 at 7:20 AM, tfort said:

the developer can make enough money to

Piano #1 is more pleasing to me. But I doubt anyone would know the difference in a live band environment. 

[Reezekeys]

Well folks I discovered in my ignorance that Pianoteq's effects were all ON... including eq, reverb and a delay! So this comparison is not fair. I'm going to re-render and re-upload the video. Not right now though, it's 2:20AM here - I'm going to bed!

 

In my lame defense, it's not exactly obvious that any of the effects are on by looking at the main page - it's only after tapping on the text and seeing it dim that you realize they're on/off switches! Still, I should have explored the interface more.

 

Oh yea, #1 is my NI "New York", resampled into Virsyn's AudioLayer. #2 is Pianoteq. And of course Dave knew the tune!

 

I shall return... good night for now!

[DeltaJockey]

Yeah, I've done that too. I mainly use PT in a DAW, and have my own effects, then realise PT effects are on still.

I do it this way, because I play it in a surround concert hall environment.

[ElmerJFudd]

NI Steinway D resampled - sneaky! But it’s interesting too.  Can you share how many velocity layers the desktop version is and how many you resampled?  How large is the resulting library?  
 

I pretty impressed with Pianoteq on iOS. I’m not sure which of the two examples I like better.  But yes, it would be a more fair comparison if the FX were off.  

[Reezekeys]

Here is the revised video. The edit window is gone on my earlier post with the bad video; I'm able to delete it but that might make things confusing to anyone coming to this thread later. I'll leave it there for now I guess, or see if I can replace it on youtube with some kind of placeholder video with a link to this version.

 

I have some things to opine on of course, and I've seen a few Qs here regarding my "roll-your-own" piano I use. Gonna save that for a little later. I will say that I spent some time level & EQ matching, and obviously fixed my mistake of not noticing that the efx and eq were enabled on the Pianoteq preset – I took them off (my other piano's samples are 100% dry). Both pianos are going through one global reverb that's adding a touch of ambience.

 

Pianoteq sounds much better to me now! Am I glad I caught that.

 

It's really nice. I'd use it in a heartbeat. It's only that I've been playing my current piano on my laptop and now on i-devices for something like 17 years! It fits my fingers like an old slipper fits my foot.

 

One other quick comment: I thought some of you would figure out which one was Pianoteq by seeing me hit a few keys that didn't sound – that's how the demo works!

 

 

 

[U.Honey]

It sounds like #2 has a little more reverb. But, if the reverbs are the same with both of them then I guess what I'm hearing is the modeled string resonance on #2. That makes me guess that #2 is then Pianoteq. They both sound pretty good to me. What is the sample based piano?

 

Very nice playing!

[drawback]

In this comparison I’m definitely liking your #1 (at the end of the video) as opposed to the thinner, less nuanced sound of #2. Looked to me that you may have been using two different Pianoteq pianos in the first half and labeled them 1 and 2.  Have you clicked on the “options” button and given the Pro version a try? Tweaks galore.