Nord Stage 4 Announced

[1203]

28 minutes ago, Mighty Motif Max said:

They did recently update these to allow the Dyno ep filters to work. That has helped from what I’ve read.

Dyno filters are not primarily made for Wurlys, they were made to push the bell on the Rhodes. And it’s still the old sample, Dyno or not Dyno… 

[rickp]

Nord's Stage 4 pages are up; I was interested in the 73HA but see the weight is only 6.4 pounds less than my S3-88 - and only 8.5 inches shorter. 

 

Split points are still pre-defined, displays have not appreciably changed . . .

 

From what I see, I'll stick with my S3-88 and S3 Compact.

[Cabo]

I don't want to be overly negative, but for my purposes, this is a big disappointment.

 

 - No individual split points.

 - No improved organ (biggest area of weakness, imo)

 - No increased piano memory

 - No USB Audio

 - No Improved Displays

 

[b3plyr]

Piano memory still 2GB, yes sample memory upgraded, same organ, same 120 polyphony, same high price (at least initially).

 

Nice interface, drawbars, each panel effects, triple sensor key beds, etc.

 

Nothing earth shaking here. Quite the contrary, a bit disappointing. I have a Nord Grand and 2 Studiologic Numa X’s and there is nothing here to make me want the Stage 4.

[rickp]

For quick reference, here's Nord's comparison chart:  S3 / S4 Comparison Chart

[nadroj]

I mean if I had the money I'd buy one without hesitating, but I agree, in terms of features it's a bit of a let down. Though Nord have always been about incremental developments, not big world changing shifts. Evolution, never revolution. With that in mind, it's pretty cool. Hardware updates like the LED ladders with physical drawbars are cool, and the 3 synth sections are nice. 1 knob per function is way out of the door now, though.

 

The memory thing has never really been issue since Nord's samples are stellar with their lossless compression. Those complaints usually come about from computer musicians who think "more GB = better". I still think Nord have the best hardware pianos in the business, and can even give some of those multi GB software samples a run for their money.

 

No USB/Audio has me at a loss though. Surely a built in audio interface must be standard practice with pro level boards now?

 

There's nothing here that would make me want this a whole lot more than a Yamaha YC, especially if it's double the price.

[CyberGene]

The price is indeed hard to swallow but that's because there's no real competition. The closest thing is Yamaha YC-series but these are more in the Electro-category. If Yamaha implemented slightly better external zone implementation (currently it require menu diving) with direct control for split point, octave settings and volume of the external zone (and I have provided a detailed suggestion for firmware update on their page), one can basically recreate a Stage with a YC and an iPad.

[analogholic]

28 minutes ago, Cabo said:

I don't want to be overly negative, but for my purposes, this is a big disappointment.

 

 - No individual split points.

 - No improved organ (biggest area of weakness, imo)

 - No increased piano memory

 - No USB Audio

 - No Improved Displays

 

 

Yeah, the organ is the biggest disappointment by far for me personally. C2D is discontinued which made me hope that some new tech is on the way that would find its way into the NS4, and especially after reading the marketing bs of "massive enhancements to our award-winning technologies, the Nord Stage 4 sets a new standard".  Don't know if they will release another clone and they think the organ is "good enough" for their target customer group...

 

Otoh if they release a new clone....it would be "funny" if that tech would get into a Electro 7 and then if we are "lucky" a NS4EX ?!?! Worst case 2029 🥴

IIRC the updated Leslie (close miked) got into NE5 long before the NS3 was released.

 

In best case the NS4 can be updated if a new organ comes.....just speculating here.

[analogholic]

4 minutes ago, CyberGene said:

The price is indeed hard to swallow but that's because there's no real competition. The closest thing is Yamaha YC-series but these are more in the Electro-category. If Yamaha implemented slightly better external zone implementation (currently it require menu diving) with direct control for split point, octave settings and volume of the external zone (and I have provided a detailed suggestion for firmware update on their page), one can basically recreate a Stage with a YC and an iPad.

 

Yeah, this was my thought too...no competition...

 

[Stokely]

re: built-in audio interface

I don't think all that many keyboards have this.  Various Yamahas and Studiologics, and ??    Roland Fantom has a partly implemented interface where (iirc) it may work with a daw but doesn't take in audio from say an ipad.

These changes certainly don't make me want to by a NS4, but I'll be on the lookout for hopefully-cheaper NS3s.  Right now as I posted earlier many of the used ones I see are still discounted from the higher retail prices over the past year.   Considering the NS2s still seem to go for mid 2000s and up, not expecting any kind of bargain basement price for the HA88 version.

[analogholic]

How would it work to control a HX3 from a NS3?

 

Wasn't there something IIRC that drawbars don't work in EXT mode?

 

And the organ sections themselves I guess don't send Midi?

 

I remember at a gig once where they gave me a NS2 to play. I didn't have any time to delve into this as it was only piano or organ, so I remapped my HX3 to respond to the Nord and just turned the volume down on the NS2 when I played the HX3. 

 

 

[Noah DC]

22 minutes ago, CyberGene said:

The price is indeed hard to swallow but that's because there's no real competition. The closest thing is Yamaha YC-series but these are more in the Electro-category. If Yamaha implemented slightly better external zone implementation (currently it require menu diving) with direct control for split point, octave settings and volume of the external zone (and I have provided a detailed suggestion for firmware update on their page), one can basically recreate a Stage with a YC and an iPad.

I don’t want to beat a dead horse on this point (as I have on other threads haha…). But I completely agree re: the YC. And while we’re at it, since the Numa X 73 actually does have that excellent external zone implementation that the YC lacks, there is very little difference between this Nord Stage 73 and a Numa X 73 with an iPad — except $3,000 and the fact that the Nord is a much crappier controller given the lack of USB. This is especially true if it turns out the Nord uses the same TP/110 action. I just don’t buy that having on-board physical drawbars is worth several thousand dollars. 

[Stokely]

Well, until the ipad refuses to work.  Which I've had happen a couple of times.  Doing the old powering on/off, unplug/plug back in works, though it took a couple songs one time.  Or until you forget to charge it (though I do use the charging port during gigs so it generally can get away from 0% by the time I start the show).

I've used ipads successfully but I'd prefer to have a dedicated machine that is self-contained.  At what price, of course.

As far as my over/under on price--looks like "under" as I posited $6000.    $5699 isn't that far off (Sweetwater price).  It's not even a ghost of a consideration at that price for me.   Ridiculous.   

[Mighty Motif Max]

They did add a new preset structure for each section as well - so AnotherScott's longtime complaint about not being able to import, say, an EP patch with an amp sim and some EQ into a new program is no longer an issue. That's honestly a very useful change as well. That price tag is excessive however; hopefully it comes down, because Nord did address a good number of my gripes with the Stage series that would make me upgrade vs a Stage 3. Now if they could just add a bit more memory, USB audio, free splits/zoning, and a way to send on 8 midi channels at once (for use with, say, a MODX). While a Stage 4 88 is most likely in my future as my dedicated piano board/stage piano, that price needs to come down. It's kind of hard to justify over an MP7SE at $2,100 which has more midi features, equally good pianos, possibly a better action, and great EP's. It's a smidge heavier, has an organ engine but it's not amazing, and doesn't have the synth engine. But $5700 for the Stage 4? Yikes.

[ProfD]

24 minutes ago, CyberGene said:

The price is indeed hard to swallow but that's because there's no real competition.

 

...one can basically recreate a Stage with a YC and an iPad.

There is no competitor KB that consolidates the features and functionality of the Nord Stage in the way that it does.   

 

The Nord Stage is a one stop for a gigging musician in need of those requirements.  

 

To the point above, the competition lies in configuring a KB rig encompassing the same capabilities according to one's own needs from a musical and gig perspective.😎

[timwat]

Man, that's a lotta cheddah.

 

 

[CyberGene]

4 minutes ago, ProfD said:

CyberGene: ...one can basically recreate a Stage with a YC and an iPad.

OK, reading it like this, I realize how I messed up the tenses (I'm not a native Englilsh-speaker) 🤣 That should read: [if Yamaha implemented what I suggested] one COULD basically recreate [to a certain degree] a Nord Stage with a YC and an iPad.

 

Not sure how that grammar stuff is called, but it's conditional thing and the condition is not yet fulfilled 😀 I mean, you can't right now recreate sh*t because external zone on the YC is just too awkward and requires a lot of menu diving 😕

[analogholic]

1 minute ago, ProfD said:

There is no competitor KB that consolidates the features and functionality of the Nord Stage in the way that it does.   

 

The Nord Stage is a one stop for a gigging musician in need of those requirements.  

 

To the point above, the competition lies in configuring a KB rig encompassing the same capabilities according to one's own needs from a musical and gig perspective.😎

 

Yeah, and Nord know this very well...I guess they know they don't have to break their necks to be superior in every regard, especially sounds, Wurly, clav, organ...etc

 

It "works" and is "good enough" for the gigging musician...

[ProfD]

11 minutes ago, analogholic said:

 

Yeah, and Nord know this very well...I guess they know they don't have to break their necks to be superior in every regard, especially sounds, Wurly, clav, organ...etc

 

It "works" and is "good enough" for the gigging musician...

Correct.  Nord found a niche market in gigging musicians when they dropped the 1st Electro.  They've been milking it for 20 years and counting.😎

[stoken6]

Interesting thread. On the one hand I think this is a meaningful upgrade (the third synth section is literally a 50% increase on the one thing that my NS2 has ever restricted me). On the other, the competition is hotting up around Nord, with features like USB audio. 

 

55 minutes ago, ProfD said:

the competition lies in configuring a KB rig encompassing the same capabilities according to one's own needs from a musical and gig perspective

And this ability to "configure" around a Stage is I think its unique differentiator. High-quality (if subjective) piano PLUS organ model with drawbars PLUS knobby synth PLUS extern and dual-kbd capabilities puts a lot of flexibility in front of you, whatever your gig. Nobody has quite managed to replicate this breadth of capability (Roland's VR730 is getting there, but with some irritating limitations - ditto Korg Vox Continental; Hammond's SK Pro is a strong contender). 

 

Cheers, Mike.

[Noah DC]

1 hour ago, ProfD said:

There is no competitor KB that consolidates the features and functionality of the Nord Stage in the way that it does.   

I just respectfully disagree. At this point, it is objectively untrue that there is no competition, even for one-board solutions. Five years ago? Yeah. And if this keyboard cost $2,500, then sure, you could make the case that there is no competitor. But for $5,400? Absolutely not. We all could list so many different incredible rigs that could be purchased with today’s technology for that absurd amount of money. I don’t think anyone could say with a straight face that with the quality of equipment available lately that a $5,400 Nord is intended for the average gigging musician. As far as I can tell, these new Nords are now a vanity purchase for wealthy big name touring musicians or folks with an extremely large pile of discretionary cash laying around (used or previous models at a lower price point are a different story). Just my two cents since we’re discussing this topic!

[ProfD]

7 minutes ago, Noah DC said:

I just respectfully disagree. At this point, it is objectively untrue that there is no competition, even for one-board solutions.

Cool. 

 

I'm not aware of another single-KB solution that has drawbars/drawbuttons, organ, piano and programmable synth engine on the front panel. 

 

Otherwise, as I mentioned, there are competitive options according to one's needs.😎

[Al Coda]

4 hours ago, jeffinpghpa said:

Preorder prices on Sweetwater in USD:

NS4 73 Compact: $4,899

NS4 73 HA: $5,399

NS4 88 HA: $5,699

 

 

and now the europaen prices in EUR incl. (average) 20% VAT please ...

 

A.C.

[Noah DC]

19 minutes ago, ProfD said:

Cool. 

 

I'm not aware of another single-KB solution that has drawbars/drawbuttons, organ, piano and programmable synth engine on the front panel. 

 

Otherwise, as I mentioned, there are competitive options according to one's needs.😎

Yeah, I guess from my perspective it’s the Yamaha YC, which costs less than half the Stage 4, leaving thousands of dollars for whatever other gear you might need. If somebody absolutely HAD to have a fuller set of synth controls and refused to plug in (with a single cable given the YC’s USB audio) any number of high-end synth modules that you could buy with the 3,000 in savings, I suppose you could say the Nord Stage is your only option…

 

Anyway, as always, to each their own - folks should spend it if they’ve got it! 

[Docbop]

I've had my Stage 3 for a year now and have enjoyed it, but the Stage 4 didn't change the things I was hoping for and that price hike is crazy.   One of the things that attracted me to Nord was the library but only a couple new uprights in the past year and their EP's really need a refresh.    So who knows maybe sell off my Nord and get a  YC or CP they cover my few needs. 

[Jim Alfredson]

The price is outrageous for what it is. Get yourself a Kurzweil K2700 for near half the price and enjoy 256 note polyphony, as many FX chains as you want (only limited by DSP), 16 voice multitimbrality, user flash ram sample memory, ribbon controller, built-in USB audio interface, 28 fully programable knobs and sliders, multiple pedal inputs (again fully programmable), multiple audio outputs, sequencer, arpeggiator, chord / key triggering (insanely powerful), 16 velocity sensitive pads (fully programmable), master transport controls, big color display, one button splits and layers, Quick Access mode for set lists, an FM engine that can load DX7 sysex, etc.

Oh, and the Wurli and Rhodes are far superior, imho.

The only weak spot is the KB3 engine, which honestly I'm using in my Floyd tribute band for many of the background organ parts because it's great for rock organ. If you need something better, put it through a Vent or MIDI up the IK B3x and save yourself $2500. 

[Iconoclast]

Things they fixed that I wanted fixed:
-Number one on my list was the effects routing. It seems they really improved the effects section
-There's a 73key version that has the same keybed as the 88 key version, but it's only $300 less.

-drawbars
-Another synth layer would help in my uses
-I have mixed feelings about the fixed split points. I love the lights but I hate the way they seem to always fall in the most inconvenient spots, requiring another patch.

I will not miss the A panel vs B panel architecture.
I never found the organs to be bad and in fact I think they're far superior to most of the alternatives.

I don't know that any of this will make me run out and buy the first one available given the price.

[jeffincltnc]

I'm going to go ahead and preorder the Stage 4 73 HA after all.  I've found some flexibility on price and offered some flexibility in return to the dealer on a larger prepayment.  (He is a mom & pop dealer ordering 20 of these in different sizes and so fronting some cash flow was well received by him).

 

I'm going to be happy with this board for my needs and while I understand what the things are that they did not improve upon from Stage 3, the synth enhancements will be very well utilized in my 80's band under a Wave 2, and it will be my go-to piano board in which I sold my YC88 for something more compact.  I'll be letting the Stage 3 Compact go when this comes in.

 

This is what I was thinking for consolidating two boards to one in my inventory and the one thing I can say, price issues aside, is that this is one board I will use on every gig for the foreseeable future.   The decision to pair the triple sensor HA keyboard in the smaller size and not use the TP/100 HP seals this for me as much as anything else.  So I will pull the trigger today after all and should have one sometime in April.

[stoken6]

1 hour ago, Jim Alfredson said:

Get yourself a Kurzweil K2700 for near half the price

Very different animal, but very powerful. I'd love to see a 73-key spring-action K2700-7.

 

Cheers, Mike.

[Iconoclast]

Regardless what you think of the board, there's some MONSTER performances on the release website. Do yourself a favor and go watch a couple or all of those:

https://www.nordstage4.com/