All valve keyboard amplifier?

[dazzjazz]

Does anyone make an all-valve keyboard amplifier? 
I recently played through a reproduction Fender Deluxe Reverb. The midrange scoop was the only drawback, but there was a lot to like about the overall tone and vibe. 
regards

 

Darren

[Baldwin Funster]

Any all tube bass amp head will work. Ampeg SVT. Fender Twin. Great for everything but acoustic piano. I believe that needs Solid State. 

[MathOfInsects]

Just here as a Commonwealth-to-American translator for the uninitiated:

 

“valves” = “tubes.”

[AnotherScott]

Tubes sound great for EPs, organ, clav, it gives them that nice extra edge that "the real thing" had, since those actual instruments were often played through tube amps. But as mentioned, generally not the approach of choice for acoustic piano, which could be an issue. For stuff like strings and horns, it's probably not ideal, but probably not much of a problem, either. 

[dazzjazz]

I’m thinking just for organ…

[KuruPrionz]

Back in the day, I knew a few keyboardists who used a Fender Twin with JBL speakers in it. 

Weighs a TON and doesn't really sound like tubes until it is ungodly loud. 

 

If you are looking for tube tone, try a Peavey Vypyr VIP3 and turn the Post Gain knob way up. The amp has both a master volume and an output control so unlike most tube amps it doesn't have to be loud to start sounding like tubes. Hartley Peavey spent many years developing the TransTube circuit (analog solid state tube amp emulation) and I have to give him that one, it's amazing. 

 

If you want to travel light you could try a Tech 21 Para Driver DI, that will get you really close too. Analog tube emulation with a blend knob to add saturation without losing the clean sounds. 

[MathOfInsects]

23 minutes ago, dazzjazz said:

I’m thinking just for organ…

Leslie 122H?

[EricBarker]

I would say, for most keyboardists who are using more than one type of tone, it makes sense to go HiFi solid state and let modeling take care of the warmth on a per-instrument basis.

 

as others have stated, Tubes aren’t generally that great for standard AP material, and only sometimes okay for sampling/synth tones. Considering it’s impossible to REMOVE tube warmth, it’s better to go dry and fake it for those instruments who need it. Amp modeling is so good these days that really only the most picky of players (and even less listeners) can tell. There are a lot of downsides to tubes, not much to solid state modeling.

[EricBarker]

There’s also the hybrid method of using a “tube pedal” or “tube preamp” into a solid state amp. Then you can have your cake and eat it too, without breaking your back!

[CEB]

A 70s Fender PA100 head could be cool. They were affordable but guitar players started driving the price up some. But still somewhat affordable if you want a higher head room Fender. 

[dazzjazz]

7 hours ago, MathOfInsects said:

Leslie 122H?

I have plenty of Leslie’s. I don’t want to carry one. 

[bjosko]

I might try to experiment a little with this. 
I bought a Fender Hot Rod Deville 410 ( the old model with silver top) yesterday, but also have a Strymon Iridium ( that can handle stereo) that can simulate a tube amp pretty close. 
Not that I will schlep the Deville to gigs 😓

I just wondering if it can handle an electronic input from a clone as well as a passive from an original Rhodes as an example. 

[Baldwin Funster]

2 hours ago, bjosko said:

I might try to experiment a little with this. 
I bought a Fender Hot Rod Deville 410 ( the old model with silver top) yesterday, but also have a Strymon Iridium ( that can handle stereo) that can simulate a tube amp pretty close. 
Not that I will schlep the Deville to gigs 😓

I just wondering if it can handle an electronic input from a clone as well as a passive from an original Rhodes as an example. 

You might try running the line level right into the effects loop return.

[CyberGene]

13 hours ago, MathOfInsects said:

Just here as a Commonwealth-to-American translator for the uninitiated:

 

“valves” = “tubes.”

 

Yeah, in the first moment I was wondering why "valves" and "amplifier" in the same sentence, like is that a hydraulic amplification that needs pressure valves or something? 🧐

[Delaware Dave]

12 hours ago, dazzjazz said:

I’m thinking just for organ…

Guitar amps just don't carry the bottom end well;  I would try the Tornado T115; it is about 63 pounds (1/2 the weight of a 145), tube front end and back end and manageable since it isn't that heavy; in stop mode you could run other instruments through it. 

[ITGITC]

 

The even-order harmonic distortion that tubes (valves) offer is great for electric guitar amps.  And the tube amps in the older Leslie tone cabinets helped to add the overdrive that was represented in lots of early R&R.  An overdriven B3 connected to a Leslie with a tube amp... What a wonderful sound!  In the seventies, I played my Fender Rhodes through a Fender Bandmaster amp connected to a RMI cabinet loaded with two JBL woofers and a couple of tweeters that Allen Organ (parent of RMI) incorporated in their organ cabinets.  It sounded AWESOME!

 

Over the years I have found that, in order to realize the dynamics of a solo acoustic piano, for example, a high-powered solid state amp is required, along with a pair of FRFR (Full Frequency, Flat Response) speakers.  I suspect a pre-amp that incorporates tubes could be fun to use just to hear how it can warm up Rhodes or organ sounds coming from my boards.  I would want to compare this to current tube emulation effects.  A Ventilator is good, but for listening to an organ in a ballroom, for example, it's hard to beat the sound of a genuine tube-powered Leslie throwing sound against the walls!

 

Since one of the most difficult sounds to reproduce in a PA speaker is acoustic piano, I think it's best to keep the signal chain free and clear of anything that, by design, colors the sound.  If distortion and warmth is desired, this can be included as an option.

 

ITGITC? 

 

[CEB]

I might pick up a Fender PA100 myself. They can still be had for less than $500.   Basically a 4 channel Bassman 100. You can jump channels for more overdrive and modify input resistors. Independent EQs for each channel.
 

 You could jump two channels for organ and have one channel optimized for electro mechanical EPS etc…. I would never travel with one. Live I believe in Tom’s philosophy.  But at home it’s anything goes. 

 

Biggest downside is the head is over 60 pounds. Also you need a cab … but that is also an advantage. You can run any cab you want. 

[Baldwin Funster]

One thing with tube amps is crossovers. Other than leslies I'm not aware of tube amps that have factory crossovers. You'll have to run speakers as full range or if using any Hi/Lo set up you'll have to run a separate speaker output to the horn with an Lpad. And I'm sure 6550s are at least $50 each by now.

[KuruPrionz]

In the past, I've owned 9 Mesa Boogie amps, quite a few Fenders from 1953 to mid 70's, a Red Plate Blues Machine, an Allen Accomplice, a Stage Baby and a variety of vintage Supro, Kay, Harmony and others. There are two primary reasons why I no longer use tube amps. The first and most important is that while tube amps themselves may be very reliable, tubes are not. 

 

To play gigs reliably you really need at least 2 tube amps, replacing tubes during a performance is not a viable strategy. The last gig I played using a tube amp was a New Years Eve party and I'd brought a Red Plate Blues Machine - more or less a handbuilt Dumble clone with a circuit board. Great sounding amp. 10 minutes before show time it suddenly became about 2/3rds quieter and sounded not so good. I had no choice at that point but to turn it way up and hope it didn't die. I made it through the gig, not real happy with the tone but I got the job done. 

 

The other reason I switched to solid state is that the tones of the more modern solid state amps have improved exponentially compared to when I started playing gigs decades ago. If you don't mind cleaning the jacks and twisting the pots a bit every now and then, a solid state amp just keeps on working. Now that the tones are so good I see no reason for me to use tube amps anymore. 

 

I'm also hearing huge improvements in current plugins for guitar amps. Many of them truly sound great and that is very useful and wonderful. 

Of the amps I've used recently, I like my Boss Katana Mk II 50 and I LOVE my Peavey Vypyr VIP 1 but I had to replace the speaker/baffle to get that one to sound fantastic. 

It comes with a crappy 8" speaker, mine has a 10" Peavey Scorpion cast frame speaker in it and it made a huge difference. Referring back to the 9 Mesas, there is nothing disappointing about the tones I am getting from the Peavey. Bit of a pleasant surprise but I'm grateful for it.

 

The icing on the cake is that by adding the Peavey Sanpera 1 pedal I can now program up to 12 different sounds with a wide range of amplifiers (each with 3 gain starting points and huge range of tones from low gain to high) and more different effects than I would have ever bought pedals for, tap tempo on the delay, lush reverb and an astounding emulation of the output section of a tube amp, most solid state emulations only tackle the preamp but the Peavey goes all in. 

 

The Sanpera also has a volume pedal that you can press down and click into a great sounding wah pedal. It's a small pedalboard that only requires one cable (7 pin MIDI cable) and does more than I need. I usually only need 3 good sounds to get through a gig. 

 

So, for keys I would recommend the Peavey Vypyr VIP 3, 100 watts and a robust 12" speaker. You can play bass through it without crapping out so keys should work great and you can get everything from subtle tube amp "singing" tones that still allow clarity in the chords to full on screaming insanty, which most of us will never use (I don't). 

[Franz Schiller]

I used to play my organ through a Fender Custom Twin 15, which has a single 15 inch speaker in it. Sounded great, but yeah heavy as hell. I've also played synths through tube Fender guitar amps and –although it's lacks the full range of frequencies– still sounds pretty good, and it weirdly does seem to cut through in a rock band.

 

One option to try is the Tech21 Blonde pedal, which is an ANALOG model of Fender amps. Imperfect but sounds pretty darn good. I like the Blonde a lot.

 

In fact, it might be a better option, because you can have some bottom end you would lack in a real amp, and you can also turn it off if you need switch to a piano model.

[Delaware Dave]

2 hours ago, ITGITC said:

I suspect a pre-amp that incorporates tubes could be fun to use just to hear how it can warm up Rhodes or organ sounds coming from my boards. 

I may be mistaken but I think he is looking for amplification where the power amp is tube.  If we're talking tube front end (pre-amp) only that opens up the door to Traynor that has a tube pre-amp and several pedals (butler, tube works, etc.).  As I recall the SV-1 (?) had a tube option on it and I've used that before on the acoustic piano.  One of the issues I don't like about my Motion Sound leslie is despite the tube front end the back-end is solid state.  When driven it shows the shortcoming.  One that actually came to mind is that McIntosh used to make stereos with tube driven power amps.  They were expensive but would interesting to run a keyboard through it to understand how it would sound.

[jpgxk3]

I rolled my own motor-less, rotor-less Leslie cab, amp is a 22h. 

[ITGITC]

1 hour ago, Delaware Dave said:

 

I may be mistaken but I think he is looking for amplification where the power amp is tube. 

 

 

Agreed.  I said that I suspect a pre-amp that incorporates tubes could be fun to use just to hear how it can warm up Rhodes or organ sounds coming from my boards. However, like you, I don't think it would sound the same as an amp that uses tubes throughout the pre-amp and power amp stages.  

 

We've certainly come a long way with lightweight, high-powered amplifiers.  For gigging today, I can't imagine using a tube designed power amplifier for keyboards.

 

 

[Docbop]

A Tube pre-amp is only part of the classic sound the tubes in the output stage are as much part of that warm sound.   That includes the transformers too.    As a guitar player I moved away from tube amps as I got to only playing Jazz.  Tubes were not lasting as long, getting more expensive,  availability was getting worse with every year.  Some of the SS amp have their own kind of warmth I used the early Acoustic Image heads and later Henriksen amps.  

 

If I was to go back to playing guitar again I think like so many touring pro are doing (not always by choice) and use one of the good modeling amps like a Kemper.   I notice in one of the Snarky Puppy videos one of the keyboard setups had what looked like Kemper.  Kemper you can program many amp / effects combinations and switch instantly support MIDI.   Kemper you can sample amp setups you like and store them for later use.     But Kemper gear is not cheap 

[Morrissey]

On 2/6/2023 at 8:32 AM, Delaware Dave said:

Guitar amps just don't carry the bottom end well;  I would try the Tornado T115; it is about 63 pounds (1/2 the weight of a 145), tube front end and back end and manageable since it isn't that heavy; in stop mode you could run other instruments through it. 

 

How difficult is it now to get a Tornado to the U.S.?  I recall last time the forum discussed it was still quite a challenge.

[Reezekeys]

Anyone have or use a Korg SV-2? The "Valve Reactor" with a 12AX7, a gimmick? (That's an orange LED behind that tube, right?) 🙂 

 

[Delaware Dave]

Reeze, that tube goes as far back as the SV1 version so it has been around for well over a decade.  I occasionally use an SV1 one of our band members owns.  I have used the tube on acoustic pianos and it does warm up the sound but the piano isn't as 'clean' as when the tube is off.

[jamesgordon]

I've never tried one of these, but I'm intrigued.  Not exactly a conventional tube --oops, I mean "valve" -- amp, but designed to deliver tube grit and warmth.  Relatively cheap, and only weighs nine pounds.  Buy two!  The reviews look good. 

https://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/VX50KB--vox-vx50kb-50-watt-keyboard-amp

[re Pete]

Traynor K4 had a button to run solid state or thru a tube.