Yamaha YC 73 as 1st tier board

[Michael Wright]

Sorry for the new post,  but I cannot access the last page on the YC thread.  I am considering the YC 73 as a first tier board in a 2 keyboard setup, to take over piano and organ duties.  Any brothers using it as a main piano/organ instrument?   Piano feel  is most important,  organ next.  I am pretty confident in Yamaha piano patches, organ not as much.  I will carry any thing else on the top keyboard.  I am trying  to reduce  everything down  to a manageable shlep, and reduced size,  without mixers etc,  and cover most sounds this way.   Cheers Mike      

[Outkaster]

Michael I use it exclusively for two different bands.  Easily one of the best things I have ever bought and it's manageable.  I still use an SK Pro 73 for organ stuff.

[AnotherScott]

If you want a hammer (i.e. piano-oriented) action that is okay for organ as such actions go, the YC73 is a strong candidate, and it has good piano and organ sounds. Other hammer action boards that I think are above average for organ (again, as hammer actions go) would be the Kawai MP7 (and likely the MP7SE that I haven't played), any Kurzweil with a TP40L action, and the Nords that use their TP40 action. But the YC73 is the lowest of these in weight, and probably has the best organ sound. Some might like the Nord organ as much or more, but those models don't have drawbars (they have push-button controlled LEDs instead).

[Adan]

For your specific needs the YC does not have a serious all-hardware competitor in a 70ish key version.  There's the Nord Stage 76 at almost twice the price but it sounds like you may have a synth on your 2nd tier, so with the NS you'd be buying more than you need.

 

There's a very big gap in piano feel between the YC73 and 88, but the 73 is probably the better compromise action for piano/organ.

[AnotherScott]

36 minutes ago, Adan said:

For your specific needs the YC does not have a serious all-hardware competitor in a 70ish key version.  There's the Nord Stage 76 at almost twice the price but it sounds like you may have a synth on your 2nd tier, so with the NS you'd be buying more than you need.

plus that model has the TP100 which I think is particularly bad for organ.

 

I guess the closest competitor in a hammer 7x would be a Forte 7... which is more capable than the YC73 overall, but I think lags in organ sound. I'm not sure how they compare in piano sound. But it's also a heavier board, which makes it less appealing from the perspective of the goal of "manageable shlep"

[Dave Number Four]

Can you find somewhere to try out the yc73 action? Seems like that's the main unknown here -- how you'll get along with that action both for piano and organ.

 

Fwiw I've been delighted for the last few months with a yc88, either alone or with a semi-weighted controller keyboard on top driving the yc88 sounds for organ and synth and playing the yc88 on the bottom for ap/ep/etc. Doesn't address your shlep concerns, though. 

[drohm]

I have a YC73 and like it, but I use a NS3 compact for gigging. The YC73 has some cool features like the built-in audio interface that make it very useful as a main board in a two-board rig. If I did not have the Nord, I would use it for gigging. I just like the nord size/weight better. I also wish the YC-73 was not as thick. It feels slightly awkward due to that. The action is fine for most uses, but will not feel as good as a quality 88 key action found on some other high-end keyboards. Overall, I think it is a great keyboard and I hope Yamaha continues to give updates that make it even better over time. 

[allan_evett]

54 minutes ago, Dave Number Four said:

 

Fwiw I've been delighted for the last few months with a yc88, either alone or with a semi-weighted controller keyboard on top driving the yc88 sounds for organ and synth and playing the yc88 on the bottom for ap/ep/etc. 

 +1 on the above. I haven't played the YC73, so can't comment on the action. The third rotary sim option helps the organ engine a lot, though usually I use a 2nd tier keyboard for clonewheel tones. But for single keyboard gigs and as a 1st tier 'board the YC instruments are solid for stage. 

 I find the clonewheel sound and interface to be competitive with those in multi-engine synths (Nord, Fantom, Kronos/Nautilus, Kurzweil, etc.), but still not same-level as Hammond or Crumar - which is why Hammond/IK MM's B-3X for iOS is in my stable.

 But for piano the YC is my go-to; it's almost an on-board history of Yamaha grands. And so playable.  Unfortunately it gets used only when space and schlepp permit, and that's about half the time - as some of the load-ins in this region are just plain weird (prime for crowd 'n gear collisions, stair hazards, plus an odd increase in absurdly small stages ).  So Michael, your choice of a 73-key YC does have some appeal here as well.

[stoken6]

I've played the CP73 with the same action. It's "fine". Noticeably poorer than the CP88/YC88, but entirely tolerable. It's not like a TP/100 that is virtually unplayable to me.

44 minutes ago, drohm said:

The YC73 has some cool features like the built-in audio interface that make it very useful as a main board in a two-board rig

How is the built-in audio interface useful in a rig with two hardware boards? (Serious question). 

 

Cheers, Mike.

[Al Quinn]

I have a YC73 and love it. For me, the action is a good compromise for playing piano and organ. So far on gigs I’ve only used it as a bottom board with an SK Pro 61 on top. I’m expecting it will do well as a single board rig but haven’t tried that on a gig yet. I’ve played it a lot at home and have enjoyed playing piano, EP, organ, and synth which makes me optimistic about it serving well as a single board for gigs. 

[Analogaddict]

I bought a YC73 this summer in order to build a portable rig with weighted keys. I use it with a MODX7 on top, midi going between both boards. I can play the YC organs from the MODX and use the midi zones on the YC to access midi channels 9-12 on the MODX. Very handy! Program changes for both boards are done on the MODX. 

[Stokely]

I probably asked in the other yamaha threads, but nobody local has these (or basically anything else).

Love the smaller form factor of the 73 vs the 88. I also am afflicted with "small stage syndrome".   Is the BHS of the 73 an improvement over GHS?  I had that in my Moxf8 and wasn't a huge fan, though it certainly was playable.  

I have a Modx7 and the idea of pairing it with one of these, with organ coming from the YC, has appeal.   I could easily see doing exactly what Analogaddict described. The Modx light keys actually work well for organ.  I currently use an ipad for organ, sounds fantastic but I'd prefer to use the keyboards (and/or have the YC organ as a very capable backup plan).  Simple is good!

[skipeb3]

Kawai MP7 (and likely the MP7SE 

 

I have a MP7SE, and while the action is first rate for piano, it's in no way good for organ. 

JMHO...

[AnotherScott]

On 11/9/2022 at 10:54 AM, Stokely said:

Is the BHS of the 73 an improvement over GHS?  I had that in my Moxf8 and wasn't a huge fan, though it certainly was playable.  

 It's similar to the top octaves of the MOXF8. The MOXF8 got heavier feeling as you moved further down the keyboard, the YC73 maintains the top/lightest feeling throughout. I'm not saying it necessarily feels identical, but at least similar.

 

On 11/9/2022 at 11:19 AM, skipeb3 said:

Kawai MP7 (and likely the MP7SE 

 

I have a MP7SE, and while the action is first rate for piano, it's in no way good for organ. 

JMHO...

Good to know. I liked the MP7 action in general, I don't really have experience with the SE. I thought the original, while certainly nowhere near ideal for organ (it is still a hammer action, after all), was pretty organ-playable within the constraints of being a hammer action. It even had a high trigger option.

[Legatoboy]

Great board (YC 73).... if I go out to play again, I would probably just use it alone at this age... so that sort of means I would use in the very least the piano/EP/Clav and other sounds as a bottom board in my old/normal 2 tier setups!  The organs are more than OK and useable as has been said before, the basic organ tone being very good, the Leslie Simm if pretty good now but you could bring a Vent along to beef it up! Haven't gigged mine yet but recording and playing with it at home for 9 months now or so....a keeper!      

 

[rickzjamm]

For gigs my combi is the YC88 on bottom & the MODX6 on top.  Fairly lightweight rig that covers pretty much everything (I needed to replace  my aging Kronos with its lethargic boot time & beefy weight).    

[drohm]

On 11/8/2022 at 9:46 AM, stoken6 said:

I've played the CP73 with the same action. It's "fine". Noticeably poorer than the CP88/YC88, but entirely tolerable. It's not like a TP/100 that is virtually unplayable to me.

How is the built-in audio interface useful in a rig with two hardware boards? (Serious question). 

 

Cheers, Mike.

 

I can route the audio out from second keyboard into inputs on YC73 using short TS cables and a computer/software instrument via USB. Then, audio for all come from YC73 out to mains. This allows me to use fewer DI boxes (only need one) and more simple cable management, essentially eliminating the need for en external mixer. 

[JohnH]

I bought my YC61 for organ, but I really love the piano sounds too. I layer a couple together. I use it with my S90ES on the bottom.

[stoken6]

10 minutes ago, drohm said:

 

I can route the audio out from second keyboard into inputs on YC73 using short TS cables and a computer/software instrument via USB. Then, audio for all come from YC73 out to mains. This allows me to use fewer DI boxes (only need one) and more simple cable management, essentially eliminating the need for en external mixer. 

Makes sense if you have a computer in the rig.

 

Cheers, Mike.

[counterpoint]

1 hour ago, JohnH said:

I bought my YC61 for organ, but I really love the piano sounds too. I layer a couple together. I use it with my S90ES on the bottom.

With you on the YC61...just about to order a Numa X Piano 73 for lower tier replacing a PX-5S.  Will use Arturia V Collection for any synths/samples the Numa X/YC combo doesn't cover.  Both Numa & YC have USB Audio...will be interesting to compare & figure out best set-up.  I thought about the YC 73 as a sole board but there's just not enough real estate for my needs...and the 88 is too heavy for this old man.

[kenheeter]

I really like my Numa X 73. The TP110 is really nice for piano playing. I pair it with my Mojo 61 and anything else is iPad and USB. I might have gone for the YC73 but there was no stock at the time and the Numa fell into my lap. I liked the YC61 but the keybed didn't cut it for piano and, well, 61 notes....

[drohm]

3 hours ago, stoken6 said:

Makes sense if you have a computer in the rig.

 

Cheers, Mike.

Even without the computer (a 3rd instrument) you can send the stereo output of your second keyboard into the YC73 and then just have one stereo pair (or mono) out from YC73 to monitors. Greatly simplifies the extra cabling, DI, etc. from routing two keyboards to mixer, etc. The ability to add a software instrument via USB is just gravy. 

[stoken6]

8 hours ago, drohm said:

Even without the computer (a 3rd instrument) you can send the stereo output of your second keyboard into the YC73 and then just have one stereo pair (or mono) out from YC73 to monitors. 

Correct, but that's simply using the audio inputs, not the 

On 11/8/2022 at 4:01 PM, drohm said:

audio interface

which allows you to integrate USB audio. 

 

Regards, Mike.

[Sunlight2]

I have a MODX7 on top and a Nord Electro 6 SW 73 on the bottom. I tried the YC73 with a view to replacing the Nord but decided against. I found the YC actually a little heavy having got used to the Nord's light weight, but I guess that's the trade off for the Yamaha's weightier keybed. Then I had concerns about the Yamaha in mono, which is how I run my keys. The YC's pianos sounded pretty bad in mono, the Nord's aren't too bad at all (plus there's the dedicated MONO button).

 

Obviously I'm someone who's fine with the Nord's semi-weighted compromise action for piano as well as organ. If you haven't tried it it's worth a go...really not too shabby at all and nothing like a 'synth' action like MODX etc, which I could not play piano on at all.

[stoken6]

1 hour ago, Sunlight2 said:

I have a MODX7 on top and a Nord Electro 6 SW 73 on the bottom. I tried the YC73 with a view to replacing the Nord but decided against. I found the YC actually a little heavy having got used to the Nord's light weight, but I guess that's the trade off for the Yamaha's weightier keybed. Then I had concerns about the Yamaha in mono, which is how I run my keys. The YC's pianos sounded pretty bad in mono, the Nord's aren't too bad at all (plus there's the dedicated MONO button).

 

Obviously I'm someone who's fine with the Nord's semi-weighted compromise action for piano as well as organ. If you haven't tried it it's worth a go...really not too shabby at all and nothing like a 'synth' action like MODX etc, which I could not play piano on at all.

If you're still in the market, consider the Korg Vox Continental or the Kurzweil PC4-7. Both have organ models built-in (possibly not as strong as the Electro, but subjective) and subjectively good non-hammer actions for piano. 

 

Left-field suggestion: something like a Numa Organ, and use its controller abilities to play MODX pianos. How do you find those in mono?

 

Cheers, Mike.

[Stokely]

re: mono I'm having the same issue with the Modx pianos, which (?) might be the same as the YC's.  Finding a mono piano is surprisingly difficult.  I contacted Ksounds about their epic grand since they mention "mono compatibility", they said "When I was developing Epic Grand, I took a lot of time to phase align the left and right sides of each note so that the samples sum to mono with the least phase cancellation possible."  Epic Grand isn't cheap so I'm on the fence--though I might demo, which is a nice feature they offer--as my rig might be changing.   I wouldn't be able to put the "full" epic grand on there without taking off Purgatory Creek unfortunately (unless I can take pieces of it off, this is something I need to explore...I don't use the pianets or cp).

Most of the stereo pianos get that unpleasant "honk" in mono and drop in volume, which I presume is phase cancellation.  Honestly the best at staying "true" that I've used was the old Kurzweil triple strike.

[AnotherScott]

1 hour ago, Sunlight2 said:

The YC's pianos sounded pretty bad in mono

I found the S700 to work fine in mono. That's the only one I use. But that's fine... as long as I've got one piano I like, I'm set. (Heck, even a real piano only has one sound.) 

 

As for the Electro comparison, sonically I'd give the edge to Nord on pianos, Yamaha on EPs. Not sure off-hand on organ, but probably Yamaha (which I wouldn't have said prior to the updated rotary effect). And Yamaha for most other sounds (better acoustic instrument emulations, better synth functionality), though Nord also has a good number of sounds which are not available at all in the Yamaha, like all their vintage keys stuff (plus the ability to load your own samples).

 

1 hour ago, Sunlight2 said:

Obviously I'm someone who's fine with the Nord's semi-weighted compromise action for piano as well as organ. If you haven't tried it it's worth a go...really not too shabby at all and nothing like a 'synth' action like MODX etc, which I could not play piano on at all.

I originally thought the MODX7 was unusable for piano, but I found some velocity settings that made it quite usable for me. Certainly not ideal, but no longer awful.

 

26 minutes ago, stoken6 said:

If you're still in the market, consider the Korg Vox Continental or the Kurzweil PC4-7. Both have organ models built-in (possibly not as strong as the Electro, but subjective) and subjectively good non-hammer actions for piano. 

Seconding that the Vox and PC4-7 actions are among the best for piano, as non-hammer actions go.

[counterpoint]

1 hour ago, Sunlight2 said:

 The YC's pianos sounded pretty bad in mono, the Nord's aren't too bad at all (plus there's the dedicated MONO button).

 

Obviously I'm someone who's fine with the Nord's semi-weighted compromise action for piano as well as organ. If you haven't tried it it's worth a go...really not too shabby at all and nothing like a 'synth' action like MODX etc, which I could not play piano on at all.

 

For the YC, did you try factory preset 2-1 - One Ear Piano or did you just use the mono out?  It is a bit strange, but the way Yamaha summed it mono was by applying a mono amp effect to it.  To my ears it sounds pretty good to the extent any mono piano patch sounds good ...didn't hear that phase cancellation boxy sound.  That said I don't run in mono (and will say nothing more to avoid reopening that can of worms...🤫).

 

Re using the Nord SW keybed for piano, I have the NE4 SW 73 which I think has the same keybed as the NE6.  I find it intolerable for piano...way too much up pressure...and I am really not picky about actions having played the accordion for many years before I ever played a piano.  While not my first choice, I don't mind playing pianos on the YC 61...it's a much softer action.  No right or wrong of course...just shows how we are all wired a little differently, I guess.

[1203]

I run my YC 73 in mono and i use only right output, not „left mono“ output. Sounds good with the CFX sample, at least to my ears. Bandmates and audience never complained too… 😉

[Stokely]

lol I tried the right output thing for my Modx but completely overlooked the fact that some of my other stereo non-piano patches might not be ready for that   I had all kinds of volume issues, so make sure you test all your patches.

The way the Modx pianos are by default is that one side gets more bass and the treble goes to another, so I'm not sure how well that would work anyway.  Try it and see.

I did set up the s700 on a "mono" performance making sure the elements were panned center.  It's ok, but the s700 in general doesn't cut like the CFX so I need to go in and tweak a bit.  Maybe I'll try adding a cfx sample as an element panned center and high-passed just to get that bite, or heck even a tiny bit of FM "piano"...sometimes I have to remember it's ok to think outside the box!   I also need to start getting some out-front recordings as for all I know, my in-ear monitoring is making a mountain out of a molehill.