Yamaha MODX+

[ProfD]

17 minutes ago, Stokely said:

I do think the AN-X is still possible...

If they do, it would make sense for Yamaha to offer the AN-X as a upgrade considering the analog synth resurgence.  They're only about 5 years late to the analog party.😁😎

[ElmerJFudd]

1 minute ago, ProfD said:

If they do, it would make sense for Yamaha to offer the AN-X as a upgrade considering the analog synth resurgence.  They're only about 5 years late to the analog party.😁😎

Haha. But Yamaha MI has been confounding us for decades.    

 

I’m still hopeful the ANX engine  is being prepped for Montage+/MODX+ hardware. There has to be a good reason they need the additional DSP chip. 

[AnotherScott]

On 8/24/2022 at 2:16 PM, ElmerJFudd said:

What’s strange is the absence of ANX in the copy of the manual they’ve seen, but the inclusion of an additional processor… just for higher poly on FMX?   ... There has to be a good reason they need the additional DSP chip. 

There is no confirmation of an additional processor. That's only been speculated because if that extra poly, but it's not impossible that they manage to get the extra poly without adding another processor. *If* there is an additional processor, there could well be other plans for it... but that's a big If.

 

[CyberGene]

The more I think about it (and knowing Yamaha of course, as well as owning and selling a MODX for being too awkward to work with) I have no high hopes for this hypothetical AN-X being integrated into anything intuitive and easy to use 😀 Most certainly it would need to be preprogrammed in advance rather then having a good hands on interface for real time manipulation. Yeah, you can route the knobs and faders to it as usual but still… I just think they should make a YC/CP type of instrument where they add the entire reface CS panel and engine 😉 Why not add it to the YC73/88, so that it becomes a Nord Stage competitor. Call it a YCS73/88, bingo 🎯

[ProfD]

36 minutes ago, ElmerJFudd said:

Haha. But Yamaha MI has been confounding us for decades.    

I don't see how when they have been monolithic; boring and predictable for just as long.🤣

 

Don't get me wrong...Yamaha MI produces very good instruments as evidenced on stages and in studios and houses of worship all over the world. 

 

But, Yamaha is usually a few years behind when it comes refreshing their products with new features and updated sounds.😎

 

[Stokely]

As an aside, I recorded a few tunes from last weekend's gig (before I got an odd disk is too slow error...it's a dang SSD) right from the mixer, multitracks.  I went stereo because I could   Modx sounded fantastic and better than it does in my monitor (this is nothing unusual, going by past recordings).  It's a hi-fi unit for sure and sometimes I forget how good it can sound.   Now, my playing on the other hand...not my best day, it was 4000 degrees out and I wasn't feeling well but the show must go on!

Biggest annoyance in doing band recordings is the drums--we often only mic up the kick so when I mix the multitracks it's going to sound weird at best.  Still very handy for determining if patches and parts are working.  I only got four songs down before the disk error and that was enough to tell me I need to tweak some things on all four, nothing too major but still it's a useful thing.

[Mighty Motif Max]

7 minutes ago, Stokely said:

Biggest annoyance in doing band recordings is the drums--we often only mic up the kick so when I mix the multitracks it's going to sound weird at best.  Still very handy for determining if patches and parts are working.  I only got four songs down before the disk error and that was enough to tell me I need to tweak some things on all four, nothing too major but still it's a useful thing.

An ambience mic routed to a monitor send is your friend for picking up those drums a bit more...if your system allows a signal to be routed only to a particular send or just not to the main output but also records it in your multitrack file.

[zephonic]

On 8/24/2022 at 11:13 AM, Docbop said:

Sound like the Nautilus and Kronos they basically have the same internals just smaller screen and reduced knobs and such.   So the Kronos went away and reduced price Nautilus remains.  So only one SKU worth of parts to gather and build.  

 

 

Although I could see myself buying an 88, I think it's a bit perplexing that Korg ditched the aftertouch but kept the high weight for Nautilus. And I dislike the C-C on the 73, not sure why they think that's better.

 

As for MODX+, my local GC says they have four of them in stock, but he couldn't tell me when they would be released. He'll let me know tomorrow.

[AnotherScott]

36 minutes ago, zephonic said:

I think it's a bit perplexing that Korg ditched the aftertouch but kept the high weight for Nautilus.

Aftertouch increases cost. Changes to get the weight down can also increase cost.

 

36 minutes ago, zephonic said:

And I dislike the C-C on the 73, not sure why they think that's better.

That's my favorite mid-size layout, for a non-hammer board. If you're going to play organ on it, you absolutely want that top note to be a C, since sliding up to that key is such a trademark Hammond maneuver. Any extra keys above that are actually a hinderance for organ. But 61 is too small for LH bass splits (or other splits). So 73 C-to-C (or at least 69 E-to-C, but no one makes that), is the most compact good option. (A 76 A-to-C would also be good.)

[wineandkeyz]

Bosendorfer piano dowload for the MODX+

 

Interesting…

[Stokely]

16 hours ago, Mighty Motif Max said:

An ambience mic routed to a monitor send is your friend for picking up those drums a bit more...if your system allows a signal to be routed only to a particular send or just not to the main output but also records it in your multitrack file.

Yep, that's exactly what I intend to do.  Had some debilitating dental pain to go with another medical issue last week or I would have tried it at the last gig.  My plan is to bring my Zoom H2 if I can find it and use that as an overall drum set mic.  It would help me hear cymbals in my in-ear mix and also, hopefully, help with recordings.   If I can't find the H2 I may pick up a (much) newer H1, that looks like it meets my needs and is smaller and simpler.

The signal flow for recordings can be changed per-channel, I think I have them at post-gain, pre-eq so as long as the fader(s) stay down the "overheads" won't be heard in the main mix, and will also be available in any aux for anyone who want it.

The drummer has a cool little Yamaha trigger + mic unit, but he's non-techie and doesn't show up early enough to gigs to be able to mess with it.  The one time he did bring it we had tech issues with it so now he's gun shy.   We had a sub drummer who used one, I could not believe how good that sounded.   The kick is replaced by whatever sound you want from the brain, snare too if you set up an optional trigger.  Then the rest of the kit is picked up by two condenser mics on the unit.  The whole thing simply mounts to the kick drum.  It's not as good in a studio setting as miking the entire kit (if you know what you are doing), but this is 10x quicker and easier and is ideal for a live setting.

Looking like the MODX+ is not a game changer for me, but that's ok.   The Dude and I both abide.   

[Mighty Motif Max]

1 hour ago, Stokely said:

Yep, that's exactly what I intend to do.  Had some debilitating dental pain to go with another medical issue last week or I would have tried it at the last gig.  My plan is to bring my Zoom H2 if I can find it and use that as an overall drum set mic.  It would help me hear cymbals in my in-ear mix and also, hopefully, help with recordings.   If I can't find the H2 I may pick up a (much) newer H1, that looks like it meets my needs and is smaller and simpler.

The signal flow for recordings can be changed per-channel, I think I have them at post-gain, pre-eq so as long as the fader(s) stay down the "overheads" won't be heard in the main mix, and will also be available in any aux for anyone who want it.

The drummer has a cool little Yamaha trigger + mic unit, but he's non-techie and doesn't show up early enough to gigs to be able to mess with it.  The one time he did bring it we had tech issues with it so now he's gun shy.   We had a sub drummer who used one, I could not believe how good that sounded.   The kick is replaced by whatever sound you want from the brain, snare too if you set up an optional trigger.  Then the rest of the kit is picked up by two condenser mics on the unit.  The whole thing simply mounts to the kick drum.  It's not as good in a studio setting as miking the entire kit (if you know what you are doing), but this is 10x quicker and easier and is ideal for a live setting.

Looking like the MODX+ is not a game changer for me, but that's ok.   The Dude and I both abide.   

Sounds like he must be using an EAD10 unit (or whatever the model name is)? I’ve always thought hybrid drumming is neat but haven’t explored it myself, not having an acoustic kit.

[pjd]

21 hours ago, CyberGene said:

The more I think about it (and knowing Yamaha of course, as well as owning and selling a MODX for being too awkward to work with) I have no high hopes for this hypothetical AN-X being integrated into anything intuitive and easy to use 😀 Most certainly it would need to be preprogrammed in advance rather then having a good hands on interface for real time manipulation. Yeah, you can route the knobs and faders to it as usual but still… I just think they should make a YC/CP type of instrument where they add the entire reface CS panel and engine 😉 Why not add it to the YC73/88, so that it becomes a Nord Stage competitor. Call it a YCS73/88, bingo 🎯

 

I think CyberGene's comment is worth repeating and re-reading. 

 

Imagine AN-X buried in a menu system which many people now find impenetrable? Yamaha would need to give the Montage/MODX user interface (UI) a major overhaul. Plus, MODX+ is slider and knob challenged.

 

Yamaha learned a lot from their experience with the current "focused" stage instruments -- specific-purpose UIs and engines are preferred by players and sell. Putting AN-X into a new stage instrument (the CK?) takes care of monetization, too. 

 

I liked CyberGene's comment so much, I quoted it on my site. 😃

 

Back to tearing Akai MPK Mini's apart -- pj

 

http://sandsoftwaresound.net/where-to-put-an-x/

[Mr -G-]

39 minutes ago, pjd said:

I think CyberGene's comment is worth repeating and re-reading.

Yes, that is a good point, but it would probably be easier and cheaper (therefore more rewarding in the short term?) to sell more MODX and Montage models than having to design and produce a completely new instrument? There is no reason why they couldn't produce later other instruments with AN-X (whatever that might be) and full of knobs. 

[Stokely]

The YC is already pretty close to the Electro, edging a bit toward the Stage with FM engine and more control of sample-based instruments....man I'd LOVE it if they added a synth engine to it.  There's a big price hole where the Stage used to be before they priced themselves into the stratosphere, and Korg seems fine with hiding a Kronos in a machine with very few controls.    Yes, Kurzweil is still there but I don't like the organ and I don't have the patience for VAST (yet, showing how different strokes for different folks works, I've had no issues glomming onto the MODX workflow.)
 

[ElmerJFudd]

The YC’s FM engine isn’t open to user editing or loading of DX patches.  Their focus, at least at launch, was on FM organ sounds.  
 

If Yamaha stuck the reface DX and/or CS engines in a YC revision at some point. That’s a buy for me. If they also added a simple sample synth, I’d pre-order.  

[EscapeRocks]

Wow.... is the MODX really that difficult?

 

I was up and running right away when I bought mine.

"many people now find impenetrable?"    hyperbole, much?   The UI is just fine.

 

This is not a 'beginner's' board, if you want more than just being a preset jockey.   You have to know a little about synthesis, and know what kind of parameters you're looking for.

 

The MODX can be as easy or difficult as you make it.  Personally, I find it easy.   I would assume most people doing editing and programming don't have much issue with memory retention, so once you find what you're looking for, you remember to do it.

 

The MODX and MONTAGE are fine instruments.

As is my new Fantom-08 with it's layers of menus.

Or my Nautilus, etc...

 

If you want ALL the features, like more than 4 sliders, buy the Montage.

Want 9 sliders and knobs on your Roland? buy the big brother Fantom

 

One tip for using any capacitive touch screen keyboard:    use a stylus.   Makes flying thru the menus a breeze.

 

 

 

 

[ElmerJFudd]

Workstation UI’s ain’t for sissies - The Dictionary of Modern Proverbs.

 

 

[nursers]

33 minutes ago, EscapeRocks said:

The MODX can be as easy or difficult as you make it.  Personally, I find it easy.   I would assume most people doing editing and programming don't have much issue with memory retention, so once you find what you're looking for, you remember to do it.

 

Same - I find the workflow intuitive to the point I sometimes make tweaks to volume mix between patches etc whilst playing.

[CyberGene]

Indeed, the MODX is super intuitive. I was once able to make a split between a multipart Rhodes and a multipart synth pad for less than 10 minutes. 

[HammondDave]

Can you organize your patches into a set list?  And can you change the order of songs from gig to gig?  
 

If you can’t, then the keyboard is useless to me. 

[nursers]

4 hours ago, HammondDave said:

Can you organize your patches into a set list?  And can you change the order of songs from gig to gig?  
 

If you can’t, then the keyboard is useless to me. 

You absolutely can. The swapping of the order, once you get how it works, is pretty good though if you are swapping the order of 50-60 songs I could see it getting frustrating but no different to the Kronos etc.

[EscapeRocks]

9 hours ago, HammondDave said:

Can you organize your patches into a set list?  And can you change the order of songs from gig to gig?  
 

If you can’t, then the keyboard is useless to me. 

MODX, Montage, Kronos, Nautilus, Fantom, Fantom-0 all have “setlist mode’

i like the way Roland does it with Chain Mode.   I never reorganize the programs on the main screen. Rather, I create Chains.  It’s a literal set list.  You can have many Chains setup, named, and saved. 
 

so when we decide we’re going to do whatever set from the show at wherever,  I just call up that Chain.  Good to go. 
 

I found reordering the programs in setlist  mode on the Yamaha and Korg to be just as easy, just take a little more time.    You can save those as well. I had several setlists saved 

[smanzella]

Dave,

 

Do you have a recommendation for a particular stylus that works well with both the MODX and the Fantom 0?

[Stokely]

To be fair, I think UIs and OSes click (or don't click) with people.  I have issues with VAST personally, while I know others love it.   But overall, I think they are like learning a DAW--I don't consider any DAW "intuitive" like they all say.  There's just too much information and functionality to squeeze in, they are an interface designer's worst nightmare.  Best you can expect is to know what you need to do, then it's a question of finding it, rinse and repeat.   This is an advantage of a Roland or Yamaha over a Kurzweil, there's a much bigger user base with more forums and groups,  and far more videos and information on how to do in-depth programming.    I have a mindset going in to a new piece of gear that it is usually going to be a slog at first, and things might take a while.   Same thing with any sequencer or DAW I've ever tried going back a long time, they all take a long time to get comfy.

The problem for a beginner is that often you don't really know what you need to do.  I doubt any of us are in that category.  For example, to get a cutoff swell on a sound from the mod wheel I have a pretty good idea of *what* I need to find even if I don't know *where* to find it.   For that very thing on the Modx I was surprised to find that the filter I was looking for was on each Element and not the Part.  Once you find that, then you need to find a way to get the mod wheel assigned to that value--might be on the filter page, or perhaps on a separate mod matrix area etc.

One of the harder things to do is to reverse engineer patches when it's not clear *why* things were set up a certain way.  That is the issue I have on my Forte.  I've found a simple-sounding patch, think "let's see what this is doing and learn from it" only to find it's got 14 freaking layers happening and I have no idea what they are all doing.   Modx, I find it may be simpler to start from the init patch (which is one piano part) and change the Element(s) to the waveform you want (if AWM, I haven't tried FM from scratch).

I'm a bit surprised that the Modx can't read in DX patches?  I thought I read that it could do that.

[pjd]

20 hours ago, EscapeRocks said:

I was up and running right away when I bought mine.

"many people now find impenetrable?"    hyperbole, much?   The UI is just fine.

 

 

Hyperbole on the Interwebs? I'm positively shocked and outraged! 😀

 

Personally, I get along fine with the MODX UI. I've been programming and tweaking voices back to the TG-500. Anything more than a 2 line by 24 character display is a luxury. 😉

 

I stand by my earlier comment, however. This forum is a community of experienced users. Other forums, not so much. Although it's not MODX (synths), I hang at the PSR forum, too. Arrangers are supposed to be smooth workflow, easy to use.  Yet, players remain baffled by the UI and other features.  Yamaha have been removing front panel buttons, etc. to reduce the intimidation factor felt by in-store customers. [Source: private conversation with Yamaha marketing.]

 

So, yes, many customers are intimidated by these instruments. As someone once observed, synths often return to the shop for trade-in with the original factory patches in user memory.

 

All the best -- pj

 

P.S. Just looked at the Google Analytics for my site. One of the most consistently hit pages: How to create a split on MODX. 

 

[zephonic]

I've always been a Roland guy, and as such I was positively surprised by how easy to navigate both the MODX and Montage are. I used the manual to find out how to transfer files from the computer, but that was it. Everything else was kind of self-explanatory.

 

The only thing I still need to figure out is how to assign tap tempo to a footswitch. But the MODX permanently resides in my van, it hardly ever comes in the house. Really need to make an effort one of these days.

[ElmerJFudd]

48 minutes ago, zephonic said:

I've always been a Roland guy, and as such I was positively surprised by how easy to navigate both the MODX and Montage are. I used the manual to find out how to transfer files from the computer, but that was it. Everything else was kind of self-explanatory.

 

The only thing I still need to figure out is how to assign tap tempo to a footswitch. But the MODX permanently resides in my van, it hardly ever comes in the house. Really need to make an effort one of these days.

Yeah, I was going to suggest some years ago before larger touch screens that switching from Roland to Yamaha to Korg etc. had some learning curve.  Using different terminology for things and different hierarchies for locating the parameters you needed to edit.  But this has improved a lot.  

[ElmerJFudd]

 

“FEATURES

88-note weighted-action keybed, for a familiar feel to pianists

Motion Control Synthesis unifies and controls AWM2 and FM-X sound engines

256 notes total polyphony (128 AWM2 + 128 FM-X)

1.75GB internal Flash memory

Super Knob controls multiple parameters simultaneously

Send 10 and receive four audio channels, plus 16 channels of MIDI, via a single USB cable

Live Sets allow Performance organization without copying, changing order or renaming

Four-part seamless sound switching—change Performances while holding notes without sound or effect cutoff

Motion Sequences drive synthesizer parameters through rhythmic control data you can interact with in real time

 

TECHNICAL SPECIFICATIONS

Yamaha MODX8+ 88-Key Synthesizer

Keys: 88

Keybed: Weighted action

Polyphony: 256 notes (128 AWM2 + 128 FM-X)

Internal Flash memory: 1.75GB

Included case: Soft

Weight: 30.4 lb.

 

Price & Availability

The MODX+ is being officially launced on September 1st and it is expected that it will also be available in stores either immediately or within two weeks from that date.

Pricing has yet to be announced but we have seen the MODX8+ listed at $2199 in the USA including soft case.

In the UK the oiriginal MODX8 was available for around £1400 and we have seen it as low as £1199 although most stores are now out of stock. So the above price, if correct, would represent a substantial increase for very little gain over the original MODX.

 

Yamaha are giving away the Bösendorfer Piano For MODX+ as a special offer for users who have completed MODX+ product registration.

The Bösendorfer Piano For MODX+ features 24 performances based on carefully sampled waveforms of a Bösendorfer 290 Imperial Premium Grand Piano.”

 

https://yamahamusicians.com/yamaha-modx-modx-plus-specifications/

 

 

 

[HammondDave]

I don't get it,.,.,. Most people do not like the key action on these models. I listen to YourTube videos and all I hear is clacking.  You would think that Yamaha would do something about it.  I guess I just need to try one for myself.