Who Is the Worst "Worst Member" for you?

[MathOfInsects]

Inspired by a comment in another thread, and a recent experience as well: Which member in the band being bad, represents the worst situation for you? Meaning, everyone else could suck eggs, but as long as [this member] can play decently, all is OK in the kingdom...or vice versa, everyone can play well, but if [this member] cannot, it's disaster for you?

I don't mean worst for the band as a whole (drums, duh), or the audience (singer, duh). I mean, most able to make your personal job the hardest or worst?

For me, unequivocally, it's the bassist. The bass is "the rest" of the keys, for me. If they're playing Flight of the Bumblebee on every song, or are otherwise tonic-averse, my night's toast.

The "Jacolytes"TM are the common culprit. Yeah, it's great that you like to play up there, but crazy idea, I was thinking maybe one of us should play bass. Wait a minute!! Isn't that the actual name of your instrument? Do you think it can play in the clef that's also called that? My God, this is just crazy enough to work!

There's also the ones who just won't land on a I. EVER. Yes, it's funky to displace the downbeat. But you're the boss of harmony. If you NEVER land on a I, guess what? You just transposed. 

Sometimes they'll land on a I but always do that wobble thing. So the ratio of not-I to I is roughly 10,000:1. 

I am incredibly lucky regarding the level of players I get to spend time with. Spoiled even. But I took a dad-band gig last week, which is one more fun $ide effect of COVID. Good dudes though and I got to play Benmont Tench and Chuck Leavell parts all night. BUT...the bass player had a quirk where he played 5-1 instead of 1-5; he approached each root from its 5. If a downbeat chord was a C, he played G to C on the 1 and 2. Wait, am I wrong about what key we're in? Are we in G? Oh, nope. We're IN C, but the root is being played as G.

Super fun when heading to the B sections of songs, which are often on the IV. IV's "5" is the chord we were just on. So we don't go to the B section yet? Oh damn, yes we do! So we just started a beat late? Oh, crud, no, we started right on time. The bass is just one quarter note off from the harmony.

All night. Super fun.

Who is your kryptonite player?

[BluMunk]

Drummer all the way.

Maybe a side-effect of often being the music director, but I rely on the drummer being locked into their part, the tempo, and the groove for everything else to come together. If they're doing their job, it informs everyone else's playing. If they're struggling, it doesn't matter how good anyone else is, we'll never sound cohesive.

If I'm putting a group together, the chair that gives me the most anxiety about filling well is the drum chair.

Granted, you asked for "not what's worse for the whole band", but as [i]most[/i] of my gigs have involved me doing double duty as keyboard player and "guy who cares about the details of our sound", it's a little hard for me to separate them. 

And, "Jump" is only fun to play with a drummer who's really laying it down. 😛

[RABid]

I will say lead guitar because that is the part that people most recognize and remember note by note from their favorite songs. Get a guitarists that cannot play those iconic solos, or chooses to play them differently and you will suffer.

 

On the other hand, the most valuable player is a keyboardist that can and will cover everything necessary that the band does not have. Horn parts, sax solos, flute, harmonica, can all be covered by a good keyboardist. Extrapolating from that, if you have a keyboardist that refuses to play anything but true keyboard parts, it is time to look for a more bandcentric member.

[Bobbo Fett]

If I'm playing in an unfamiliar situation where I'm having to suss out the changes, my night is a living hell with a bass player who never wants to play the root. Any other time, drummer for sure......

[ABECK]

24 minutes ago, MathOfInsects said:

For me, unequivocally, it's the bassist. The bass is "the rest" of the keys, for me.

Likewise!  Playing with a bad drummer sucks, but playing with a bad bass player is impossible.  (a bass player that loses their place in a 12 bar blues is a tragic thing)

[KuruPrionz]

I'm going to say the bassist. Bass unites groove with harmonic content if they have it going on. If their timing is sloppy or they go outside and stay there, nobody can do anything to save it. 

I've played bass in bands, I declared the bassist to be "The Secret King". Everybody else can think the song is in E but if the bassist playes it in F, it is in F and everybody else sounds wrong. 

The drummer can think it's a straight up reggae tune but if the bassist throws down the funk, it is a funky tune. Secret King always rules. 

 

I was in a Motown cover band, the founder of the band was the drummer. He didn't think keeping a groove was his job, wanted to play "jazzy" with earplugs in and his eyes closed half the time. We always had decent paying gigs and some of them were really fun so I stayed for a couple of years. 

 

One night, we played Disco Inferno for the first time. The bassist was/is easily one of the best I've ever had the joy to play with and he laid into that song like a soul possessed 

The dance floor filled up instantly. 

The drummer was useless but we had them up and shakin' it. Keyboardist shouted to me, "Take a solo for bit and keep them up here!!!" so I commenced to grooving for a bit. We were on fire and nothing the drummer could have done would have made much difference. The singers had it, Bass more than had it, he owned it and the keys and guitar kept it chugging along. 

[timwat]

I dunno if I have a one "worst member".

 

When I'm having an "issue" with another band member, it's typically someone trying to play some gig other than the one we're actually on - in other words, not embracing their damn role.

 

Straight jazz - batteries that speed up. Soloists that don't have anything to say. 

 

Dance bands - drummers that won't hold down the pocket. bass players who want to show off their chops instead of letting the groove breathe.

 

Rock bands - guitar players convinced the gig is their showcase moment. The entire freaking gig. Every song.

 

Vocalists convinced their the sexiest thing to ever grace a stage. Horn players who think they're too good to be entertainers because they once opened for some dead jazz name 40 years ago, so they're chatting about Bird and Miles on the bandstand during the songs they don't play on. While the song is being played.

 

Any member of the band who project they're "too good" to play All About The Bass, Uptown Funk, Mustang Sally, or Girl from Ipanema (pick your genre) and want everyone in the room to know they're bored and phoning it in.

 

Okay, that's enough of that.

[Mills Dude]

7 minutes ago, KuruPrionz said:

I'm going to say the bassist. Bass unites groove with harmonic content if they have it going on. If their timing is sloppy or they go outside and stay there, nobody can do anything to save it. 

I've played bass in bands, I declared the bassist to be "The Secret King". Everybody else can think the song is in E but if the bassist playes it in F, it is in F and everybody else sounds wrong. 

The drummer can think it's a straight up reggae tune but if the bassist throws down the funk, it is a funky tune. Secret King always rules. 

 

I was in a Motown cover band, the founder of the band was the drummer. He didn't think keeping a groove was his job, wanted to play "jazzy" with earplugs in and his eyes closed half the time. We always had decent paying gigs and some of them were really fun so I stayed for a couple of years. 

 

One night, we played Disco Inferno for the first time. The bassist was/is easily one of the best I've ever had the joy to play with and he laid into that song like a soul possessed 

The dance floor filled up instantly. 

The drummer was useless but we had them up and shakin' it. Keyboardist shouted to me, "Take a solo for bit and keep them up here!!!" so I commenced to grooving for a bit. We were on fire and nothing the drummer could have done would have made much difference. The singers had it, Bass more than had it, he owned it and the keys and guitar kept it chugging along. 

Yeah, I'd concur here especially for disco, R&B etc.  The drum grooves are usually pretty simple but its the bass player that makes it come alive.   Well at least the bass player locking in with the simple drum groove and the sprinkling magic fairy dust that great bass players are capable of. 

 

Relating to the other thread about over playing, one of my go to bass cats qualifies for both.  He started later in life but he gets a great tone and locks in really well.  He's just prone to over playing at times, taking too many fills.  When I can get him calmed down, he's fantastic to play with but sometimes he forgets and starts soloing through the whole song.  Always a compromise, but he loves to gig, shows up with good gear, doesn't overpower the stage and for the most part has great sensibilities.  Most important is that we understand each other when we play.  Sometimes a simple look or a head nod is all it takes to convey the message.

 

A meh drummer, I can deal with as long as he can keep steady time.  Sometimes an unsure drummer may be better, simpler kit, simpler fills, doesn't overpower the stage like many guys who bring 2 floor toms, giant bass drums and snares that require gun muffs to not damage hearing.

[cphollis]

Definitely the drummer.  If the drummer having a bad night, I will have a worse one.  I build a lot of rhythmic parts off of drum/bass and if that's not solid, I'm floating around wondering where the beats will eventually land.  Unexpected changes in tempo, missed cadences, etc. -- I might as well go home.  Conversely if drums/bass + keys lock, ain't nothing  gonna throw us off: guitarists, singers, etc.

[ProfD]

In my world where the music has to groove it is the drummer. Especially those who won't just shut the f8ck up and play.

 

The plane cannot even begin to taxi if the drummer is not committed 100% to the the drum throne. 

 

In fact, the band is already experiencing turbulence if the drummer isn't fully onboard while the plane is idling on the taxiway. 

 

The co-pilot (bassist) will have a harder time manning the controls if the drummer isn't totally on point.

 

The flight crew becomes unclear about safety protocols and might forget to pass out the peanuts if the drummer is off.  

 

I've never had to use it but extreme circumstances would call for the nuclear option (autopilot)...drum machine.

 

Thankfully, I live in a place where solid drummers are relatively easy to find.😎

[elif]

1. Horn players that practice during someone's solo.

2. Guitar players whose approach to comping is scrubbing the strings while gripping a chord rather than playing a rhythmic figure.

 

[cassdad]

1 hour ago, RABid said:

I will say lead guitar because that is the part that people most recognize and remember note by note from their favorite songs. Get a guitarists that cannot play those iconic solos, or chooses to play them differently and you will suffer.

 

On the other hand, the most valuable player is a keyboardist that can and will cover everything necessary that the band does not have. Horn parts, sax solos, flute, harmonica, can all be covered by a good keyboardist. Extrapolating from that, if you have a keyboardist that refuses to play anything but true keyboard parts, it is time to look for a more bandcentric member.

I get your point, certainly.  However, I personally tire of just "regurgitating the record".  IMO, if they want to hear a song exactly like the record, hire a DJ.  Live music can be so much more than playing every part exactly as the artist recorded it at one point in time.  (And mostly, even the original artist changes it up a bit when they've played it live for the hundredth time!).  Just my 2 cents.

[Rod S]

Drummer, always.   

 

Did have a rather unique experience, got invited to play with some folks a few months before covid hit.  Drummer had some kind of mental handicap/condition - don't know what it was, but it's relevant for context.   Hhe was in his late 50s, lived with his sister's family and she drove him to practice.   He practiced like crazy and was easily the most prepared member as far as learning the songs.   The guitar player was friends with the sister, and got him in the band as a favor since is was something he loved - which I thought was great to help him with this, and I think we should be accommodating of people's needs and special situation.   As far as I know, he was not able to hold a job nor have much of a social life.     It was difficult chatting with him.  

 

However, he was constantly disruptive.  We would finish a song, we would be chatting among ourselves on what we liked, what needed improvement, and all that,  and he would start playing random stuff, and it took a few minutes for him to stop.  He would sit still for a minute, and the cycle repeats.   Guitarist shrugged when I spoke with him about it a few times.   

 

Covid came along, and life got turned upside down.   But, I would probably have quitted if Covid had not come along - it was just ruining it for me, even though I enjoyed the whole group (there were a few other factors, especially with his sister).    However, I do hope he continues to play in bands one way or another.  Maybe a topic for a AITA thread.   

[ProfD]

1 hour ago, RABid said:

On the other hand, the most valuable player is a keyboardist that can and will cover everything necessary that the band does not have. Horn parts, sax solos, flute, harmonica, can all be covered by a good keyboardist. Extrapolating from that, if you have a keyboardist that refuses to play anything but true keyboard parts, it is time to look for a more bandcentric member.

This is why I'm a huge proponent of KB player led bands especially for those who prefer to play KB-centric sounds. 

 

That way, the KB players' hands don't get tied up covering Tower of Power, John Coltrane, Zamfir  or that Blues Traveler dude. 🤣😎

[Mills Dude]

25 minutes ago, ProfD said:

This is why I'm a huge proponent of KB player led bands especially for those who prefer to play KB-centric sounds. 

 

That way, the KB players' hands don't get tied up covering Tower of Power, John Coltrane, Zamfir  or that Blues Traveler dude. 🤣😎

Yeah, it raises my hackles a bit that keyboard dude is added for the purpose to 'bring color' and throw in all those extra instruments.  Too many situations asked to join some guitar centered rock cover bar band that wants to do a few Chicago tunes.  "You can do those horns on the keys, right?"  Umm ... no, you can't expect me to make it sound like the record when they have 3+ fantastic horn players and I'm using a rompler and have to cover other key parts like piano and such.  

 

Got recommended for a one-off corporate gig about 10 years back.  Nice setlist and one of the tunes was Ambrosia - How Much I Feel.  Nice song, good band with 2 keyboard players, a keyboard-centric band if you will.  I worked on distilling the song down to cover as a single keyboardist and also charted out the backing vox and learned my part.  We do a single rehearsal before the gig and play that tune.  BL must have had a hard-on for the song as he wanted to impress some chick and is not happy with how the other band members are handling the backing vox, he wants it to sound like the record.  Asks me if I can do "something" with the keys for the backing vox.  Yea, I can try to do a little bit even though I'm already super busy carrying this tune, but the keys are not a magic instrument to crank out karaoke with complete tracks and backing vox.  

 

It seems like its only us keyboard dudes that get asked to be the jack-of-all trades and fill in all these extraneous parts with obscure instruments.  Happy to do it when and if I can, but when that's all your asked to be, then sorry, I've got better things to do with my time.

[timwat]

My 1st reaction is screw the jack of all trades role. Life is too short and I'd rather schedule dental work than play that thankless role again.

 

But I'm old, and because of geography I may have more options - I can't remember the last time I played in a guitar-driven rock band, and I don't think I will never ever do that again. And I also realize as I'm typing this, that a lot of us on this board primarily gravitate towards that genre, and some have mentioned that's the primary working opportunities they have within a reasonable drive.

 

For some of us, either the gig means my hard work and my taste is going to be heard, and appreciated, and welcomed, or I have too many other valuable things to do in my life and hope you guitar heroes have a nice life.

 

And of course, if the gig pays enough, please ignore everything above and I'd be happy to play the gig, thank you very much LOL

[RABid]

I was happy to cover sax solos because it meant that I had more solos. Same with flute, harmonica, etc... It helped me develop a technique that even lead to me covering guitar solos that the guitarist could not pull off as well as me. I never considered it a burden or a handicap. It was a blessing that made me the heart of the band, in the biggest most successful band I was ever in. I was the wall of sound that made us special. It never bothered me to play 3 hours and not have a piano solo, and only 2 organ solos. I had a synth solo every other song and I was flying high. Sometime after that I joined a band as the second keyboardist. The other keyboardist played the piano and organ parts. I covered everything else, and was happy.

[DrEsophagus]

I punched out our bass player and our drummer, and then when the singer tried to intervene, I hit him over the head with a wine bottle. They soon learned not to mess around. To me, being in a band and doing covers is bullshit anyway so they can fuck off.

[wd8dky]

As awful as this sounds, in my Church work, it's the choir director. I love her to death, but she'll call audibles live when, between the two hymnals, there are close to 700 songs. She'll randomly call a song change, and sometimes with a key change. I thoroughly enjoy having maybe 20 secs to turn to the page, look at it, pull up a combi, and go in some other key. No, we don't rehearse. 

[Al Quinn]

The drummer. I can’t enjoy a gig that doesn’t have a strong drummer. Don’t need anything fancy. Just someone who lays down a great groove with solid time, listens, and interacts musically with the rest of the band.

[Mighty Motif Max]

Drums for me. At least with bass one can throw in a few low notes on keys to get things back on track. Drums aren't so easy to cover for. But second place goes to any acoustic guitar player (bonus points if it's a 12-string). Somehow I find that more difficult than when an electric guitar player gets off time.

[nadroj]

Drummer. Did a sub gig a couple of weeks ago. Guitarist was embarrassingly sloppy, but we could have gotten away with it…
 

…But had a sub drummer too, and he was just terrible. No groove, didn’t know the songs, terrible timing and fills, didn’t know how to end songs, couldn’t do anything well. I spent most of the night cringing. If we had the normal drummer it would have been fine. 

[Mighty Motif Max]

9 hours ago, Dave Ferris said:

I will say if you have the misfortune to be set up next to a timbale player, that is the loudest instrument on the face of the earth. They can literally smother an entire 10 piece band with 3 horns.

Yep.

[RABid]

A story I have told before....

 

I was the drummer in my first working band. Moved to keyboards for a chance to play in a much better band. Stayed around while the first band broke in a new drummer. Went to a job with them. First song was okay. Second song, Cheap Trick "I Want You To Want Me" was a different story. Half way through the song the drummer had sped up so much the singer could not get the words out fast enough. "IwantyoutowantmeIneedyoutoneedmedidn'tIdidn'Idin'tIseeyoucrying... Stop. Stop, stop, STOP! Bill. Get off of the drums. Bobby, get up here and play." I was both horrified at the train wreck and cracking up. All the drummer said is "What's wrong?" He had no clue of how much he sped up the song. I really wish I had recorded it.

 

That did teach me something. As a drummer, one good way to keep correct meter is to sing the song to yourself as you play.

[RABid]

10 minutes ago, Mighty Motif Max said:

next to a timbale player

Got a set in my man cave and never play them because I know you can hear them two blocks away.

[The Real MC]

Bassist or drummer in my book.

Competent bass players are hard to find.  The worst ones can trash the gig and/or kill the momentum of a song.

 

What I really hate are drummers who gradually speed up after playing a tom fill on the 4 of the bar.  Faster.  And faster.  And faster.  My one piano spotlight - Sweet Home Alabama - was ruined because the tempo was too fast by the time the piano solo was reached.  He was a sub and that flaw never showed up at practice.

[TommyRude]

Would the inverse be the same?  I.e. who is the best "best member"? Is it the same player?  

 

Forced to answer the original question, I guess as others have said it would be the drummer, hard to get past go if that's not working.

[CowboyNQ]

For me it’s anyone with a poor grasp of timing or rhythm, regardless of the instrument.  Extra points if they steadfastly refuse to count bars or beats.  “I just need to FEEL it.”  
 

Yes, but you have no sense of feel…

[KuruPrionz]

On 7/5/2022 at 10:10 AM, RABid said:

I will say lead guitar because that is the part that people most recognize and remember note by note from their favorite songs. Get a guitarists that cannot play those iconic solos, or chooses to play them differently and you will suffer.

 

On the other hand, the most valuable player is a keyboardist that can and will cover everything necessary that the band does not have. Horn parts, sax solos, flute, harmonica, can all be covered by a good keyboardist. Extrapolating from that, if you have a keyboardist that refuses to play anything but true keyboard parts, it is time to look for a more bandcentric member.

This is an interesting post to me, very different than my own experience. What you call a cover band, I call a copy band. To me, the following songs are cover songs.

Johnny Cash singing Hurt, written by Nine Inch Nails, Concrete Blond covering Everybody Knows by Leonard Cohen and Emmylou Harris covering Cie La Vie by Chuck Berry. 

None of those are copies, they are covers. 

 

I am not dissing copy bands, not in the slightest. Some friends of mine played copies of popular tunes like Sweet Child O' Mine and my friend John nailed that solo every time. I respect the time, the dedication and the talent it takes to do that. 

 

My path was different, I did not choose it - it chose me. The first few bands I was in played primarily original songs that bandmembers wrote (myself included) and we did a few covers but our own versions of them. Then a good friend asked me to play guitar in his band. Roger has a gigantic memory, for starters he knew EVERY Elvis song, Christmas song, John Prine song, Kris Kristofferson song, Leonard Cohen song, hundreds of blues songs, thousands of vintage Country songs (Johnny Cash, Marty Robbins, Ferlin Husky, Dolly Parton - I could go on. 

Roger is a great singer, he can mimic others but he sings just like himself because that is irreplaceable. He was always booked, I played 9 years with him at least 3 nights a week and one time we played 16 gigs in 14 days. When I joined, we practiced maybe a dozen times, then we started gigging. in 9 years we NEVER had a set list, not once. 

 

One time both his and my parents showed up so Roger joyfully played a 90 minute set and in every song at least one person died and quite a few went to prison because they'd killed somebody and then they died (a 2-fer). Death set, typical of a dark sense of humor. 

 

Fortunately, Roger also played guitar so I could usually suss out what we were doing just by watching. It was a bit of a rough go sometimes, I've played entire sets where I'd never heard any of the songs before in my life. I had tto be ready to play country, rock, heavy-metal funk, folk, blues (real blues, not just white boys with suits and sunglasses trying to play Crossroads) at a moment's notice. 

 

We got booked for lots of steady work, every Thurs and Sat for 2 1/2 years at one place, every Thurs for 2 years at another and every six weeks we got a Thurs, Fri and Sat at a local club that charged a cover. We charged $6 a head and packed out a 200+ capacity club all 3 nights on those shows, with a 4 piece band that split up pretty nice. 

If there was a signature lick and I knew it, I played it. Sometimes Roger played the signature licks. Neither of us ever copied the solos, we played what we wanted to play. 

 

The "Paid Practice Program". 

 

So my spin on what people remember, watching them on the dance floor - is the lyrics to the chorus of the song. The audience wanted a groove they could dance to and a chorus they could sing along with. By Far, the most important member of the group was the lead singer, that remains my opinion. 9 years of that was like a PhD in Bar Band.

 

Then I played in a Top 40 Country band, I learned the signature licks, played my own solos and played all the fiddle, dobro and keyboard solos too since the keyboard player in that band would only pound out the chords and sing great harmony parts. Once Jeff (Male lead singer) said to me "You aren't playing the intro guitar part in that song" and I said "Jeff, there's an acoustic guitar, a Nashville tuned guitar, 2 electric guitar and a pedal steel guitar in that intro, which one of those do you want me to play?" He just looked at me weird, clueless. 

 

When I moved up here I took the audition for a Motown cover band. Right off the bat the keyboard player told me that since we only had 2 front men - lead singers and 1 each guitar, keys, bass and drums "we would never sound just like the records, they had choirs, orchestras, horn sections..." So he told me to learn the signature licks "My Girl - the sax part in Whats Goin On, the opening to How Sweet It Is, the octave to I Want You Back, etc" and just fill in as needed on the rest of the songs. He did the same, some horns here and some strings there but mostly piano and organ. We had steady gigs, people on the dance floor singing along with the chorus. 

 

Played in a couple of original bands again and then 6 years with a great singer/guitarist and a similar format to the 9 years in Fresno. We didn't practice much at all and I did see 3 setlists get the first 2 or 3 songs played and then the JP would kick it behind him and go free form. He knew hundreds of songs, same drill - rock, country, blues, ballads - watch the guitar hand and play. Signature licks if I knew them and by then I knew quite a few. I'd start solos with the original licks then move onto playing my own thing. 

Dance floors full of people singing the chorus. 

 

Bottom line, my experience is that the audience loves the singer above all others, wants a chorus they can sing along to and a beat they can dance to. 

Lead guitarists and keyboard players are important second-stringers. I'm more known up here for singing my own songs than I am for my guitar work and I'm good on guitar. 

 

Not saying your experience isn't real, it IS. I've had a different experience, its real too. Cheers, Kuru

[El Lobo]

I guess I'm fortunate that the musos I play with in my circle are all B+ players. None of them are A-list, although I know and have played with a few A-list players on bass, a couple of keyboardists, and the best drummer I've ever played with. Playing with him just makes everybody in the band better. But in the bar band/cover band world I'm in, if the drummer can't keep good time, the whole thing falls apart. If the drummer's good and the bassist is all over the place or not in the groove, I can deal with it and stay on track. I used to play with a drummer who we eventually fired because his goal was to be drunk by the 3rd set. He said it just like that. A drummer I worked with for a long time smoked a lot of weed, but his time was always perfect. I never understood how that could be. But the drunk drummer ruined every 3rd set we played with him so we said goodbye. I don't think he understood what the problem was.