News from Roland: Fantom 06/07/08

[AnotherScott]

20 hours ago, RABid said:

 All that and they don't tell us the polyphony limit. Still, that is a lot of control options for a budget keyboard. I also found nothing about the pads being velocity sensitive.

 

Even the pads in the "full" Fantom are not velocity-sensitive, so I can't imagine they would be on the Fantom-0.

 

Good point about the polyphony, I haven't seen anything to indicate whether it is the same as or less than on its big brother.

 

16 hours ago, GovernorSilver said:

16 hours ago, AnotherScott said:

That was not a comment of mine.

 no but it was a comment posted on this thread

 

You'll find it.  You've got a good eye.

 

I wasn't doubting that someone said it. I just didn't see how it was relevant to your response to my post. (It would have been relevant if I had said it. But since I didn't...  ) - Anyway, I was only trying to explain why I included Kurzweil as having a MODX/Nautilus/Fantom-0 competitor with aftertouch, while not mentioning the various synthy boards with AT. I used the same criteria you did, "the target market may be different for those."

 

1 hour ago, nadroj said:

Yeah there’s supernatural EPs on the Fantom 0. 
 

The SuperNatural EPs, Clavs, etc were all on the FA and I just wasn’t convinced by them. I still remember when I first got my Electro and compared the clavs on that to the Roland during the break of a gig once…my band let out a simultaneous “WOW!” at the difference. And the Nord clavs aren’t exactly world beaters either! 

 

I agree that SuperNATURAL Acoustic is a mixed bag. They do some really nice things on some of the orchestral instruments, for example. But I have yet to hear a SN piano, EP, or clav that I prefer over some of the "ordinary" sample-based ones in competitive boards.

 

 

[GovernorSilver]

10 minutes ago, AnotherScott said:

 

 

 

I wasn't doubting that someone said it. I just didn't see how it was relevant to your response to my post. (It would have been relevant if I had said it. But since I didn't...  ) - Anyway, I was only trying to explain why I included Kurzweil as having a MODX/Nautilus/Fantom-0 competitor with aftertouch, while not mentioning the various synthy boards with AT. I used the same criteria you did, "the target market may be different for those."

 

 

 

 

You think it's irrelevant but you just got confused.  Part of it was some attempts at humor.

 

Since the ship has long sailed on the attempted jokes, let's move on, shall we?

[AnotherScott]

On 3/16/2022 at 1:53 PM, GovernorSilver said:

If you want an organ-centric keyboard, wouldn't you want one with waterfall keys anyway?

 

Not everyone necessarily needs waterfall... even some "real" tonewheel Hammonds didn't have waterfall keys. To me, the bigger loss is not having all 9 drawbars. But I think, for Roland, the VR09/VR730 remain their "organ-centric" boards, and the Fantoms are not organ-centric per se (heck, tonewheel organ emulation was "retrofitted" into the board's big brother, rather than being there from the start)... but it's still a pretty strong choice for someone who needs quality organ along with everything else.

[GovernorSilver]

28 minutes ago, AnotherScott said:

 

Not everyone necessarily needs waterfall... even some "real" tonewheel Hammonds didn't have waterfall keys. To me, the bigger loss is not having all 9 drawbars. But I think, for Roland, the VR09/VR730 remain their "organ-centric" boards, and the Fantoms are not organ-centric per se (heck, tonewheel organ emulation was "retrofitted" into the board's big brother, rather than being there from the start)... but it's still a pretty strong choice for someone who needs quality organ along with everything else.

 

That's what I'm pondering as I consider this for myself - do I really need waterfall keys.   I cannot honestly say that I plan to learn all the tricks that rely on waterfall keys.   My primary use of keyboards is for entering ideas into sequencers/DAW.  I don't harbor ambitions of taking a pro Hammond/clonewheel playing gig - I just like a lot of the sounds.

 

This is a question only I can answer, after some more thought and analysis.

 

[GovernorSilver]

I forgot who asked about non-piano Supernatural sounds, but this demo includes Supernatural trumpet.

 

I'm not sure what he means by "all new Supernatural piano" - like whether the 0 is on a different, possibly newer OS than the high-end Fantom, or if they implemented a version of Supernatural (modeling) specific to the 0 series, or if the source sample files are just different.

 

 

[CEB]

Anyone actually laid hands on the  06 or 07 yet?  This could be perfect for my needs pending the answer to two questions.  Thanks. 

[CEB]

You don’t need waterfall keys.  You really don’t. You just need keys that aren’t shit. 

[Fleer]

6 hours ago, AnotherScott said:

 

Not everyone necessarily needs waterfall... even some "real" tonewheel Hammonds didn't have waterfall keys. To me, the bigger loss is not having all 9 drawbars. But I think, for Roland, the VR09/VR730 remain their "organ-centric" boards, and the Fantoms are not organ-centric per se (heck, tonewheel organ emulation was "retrofitted" into the board's big brother, rather than being there from the start)... but it's still a pretty strong choice for someone who needs quality organ along with everything else.

I wonder how the Fantom’s organ compares to the YC61’s. 

[brenner13]

 No channel aftertouch, no interest from me. Still digging my MODX7, but REALLY miss aftertouch. Sure would like to see a MODX Module. I’d sell/trade in a heart beat.

[MathOfInsects]

We're used to one particular kind of organ key and action, but plenty of organs--including all of them until ours came around, and plenty during and since--had diving boards. It's super easy to play organ parts on synth keys. Plus this is very non-organ-like in plenty of other ways, including the inexplicably missing 9th slider. I mean, if you're going to put 8 on there, just put 9.

The point is, this isn't going to be anyone's organ board, just a board to play some organ sounds on, maybe.

Don't go chasing waterfalls.

[GovernorSilver]

Interesting.  Not what I expected from the clonewheel veterans, regarding waterfall vs. diving board keys

 

My interest in this thing stems from it appearing be an upgrade over my MC-707 plus little controller keyboard setup.   The organ engine is more of nice to have than a must have.

 

I'm sure others see it as a downgrade from the "pro" Fantom, except those who were unhappy with the reportedly stiff aftertouch.  I'd hate to spend all that extra money AT only to find it unusable.

[stoken6]

4 hours ago, MathOfInsects said:

 the inexplicably missing 9th slider. I mean, if you're going to put 8 on there, just put 9.

Can the 9th drawbar be controlled from another controller (Mod wheel, say)?

 

Cheers, Mike.

[Sean M. H.]

1 hour ago, stoken6 said:

Can the 9th drawbar be controlled from another controller (Mod wheel, say)?

 

Cheers, Mike.

Right...and can you configure which 8 of the 9 drawbars are on the sliders vs which is controlled by the alternate controller?  I would sure hope so...even still, it's a bizarre omission.  I mean, there's been plenty of midi  controllers and other keyboards in the past that have had 8 sliders.  I've always seen that as an unfortunate oversight and a minor annoyance...but it seems even more glaring/wrong given that they literally have an organ engine that they're touting as a feature 😖

 

That said, I'll still be keeping an eye on these as reviews start to roll in.  I have an FA-07 (which of course has ZERO sliders lol)...so this would probably be a seamless upgrade 🤔 

[jeffincltnc]

I have both the Fantom 8 and YC88 here.  The Fantom 8 is a home keyboard and the YC88 is for gigs.  Both organ engines are very good and I would have no problem using them in a band context.  If I am really focusing on organ as a standalone sound, I would rather play my Viscount Legend Live or my Nord Stage 3 Compact with a Vent II, Tall & Fat and external Reverb for gig purposes.  They are all good, though and these are all a much better generation of where I was a few years ago with the built in organs of the Roland FA series or the Kurzweil KB3 stuff in Forte.  Lots to be happy about and Roland has done a very good job with the Fantom organ models, EPs and the new SuperNatural Acoustic Piano 2 (SNAP2) is also very good in the new Fantom and Fantom-0.

[EscapeRocks]

6 hours ago, stoken6 said:

Can the 9th drawbar be controlled from another controller (Mod wheel, say)?

 

Cheers, Mike.

 

if needed, when playing a scene that has Organ,you can bring up the drawbars on the screen.  All 9 are there.    This is another "what works for me might not work for you" thing.  They way I use organ in a band setting, I don't really ride the drawbars that much, especially not the 9th one.    On workstations i have without any drawbars, I setup different drawbar setting presets/scenes. 

 

 

[ABECK]

Sounds manageable.  (Although the 9th drawbar is the one I most frequently adjust!)

They did a good job addressing some of the shortcomings of the FA series.  The Fantom-8 is way too  much for me to spend on a gigging board, but damned if this doesn't check a lot of boxes.

[EscapeRocks]

2 hours ago, ABECK said:

Sounds manageable.  (Although the 9th drawbar is the one I most frequently adjust!)

They did a good job addressing some of the shortcomings of the FA series.  The Fantom-8 is way too  much for me to spend on a gigging board, but damned if this doesn't check a lot of boxes.

That's me as well.  Would I love a full fledged Fantom 8?  Sure.  For the way I use it, in my gig rig, it's not worth  the extra $2K and extra 29lbs, before case.   As I mentioned somewhere above, same reason I pulled the trigger on Nautilus 61 over Kronos 6

[MathOfInsects]

Which one is the 9th--number 1 or number 9? Either way, my mitts are all over both of those, all the time.

[pawelsz]

1 hour ago, MathOfInsects said:

Which one is the 9th--number 1 or number 9? Either way, my mitts are all over both of those, all the time.

 

If 8 sliders are first 8 drawbars, maybe there should be an option in software to exchange drawbars 1 3/5' and 1 1/3' on sliders 7 and 8 for drawbars 1 1/3' and 1'? I find the 1 3/5' drawbar the least useful because it introduces a major third, it's noticeably dissonant when playing minor chords on organ. 

 

 

[stoken6]

3 hours ago, MathOfInsects said:

Which one is the 9th--number 1 or number 9? Either way, my mitts are all over both of those, all the time.

The 1 drawbar is number 9. The 16 is number 1, and the 8 is number 3. Logical really...

 

Cheers, Mike.

[pawelsz]

I had downloaded photos of both FA and new Fantom-0 series from Roland site, for 61 key and 76 key version and made some comparison about the sizes of boards and also of keybeds. I scaled them by lengths of whole instruments like 1px=1mm. You can see attached files. 

My conclusions:

1) Keys in both Fantom-06 and Fantom-07 are same size.

2) The new keybed in Fantom-0 pretty much follows the standard grand piano octave span of 165 mm like did FA-07 with its Fatar TP/9S keybed. 

3) The new keybed appears to have longer keys than FA-06 keys, but they can be slightly shorter than FA-07 keys. 

 

Images below go like
1) FA vs Fantom-0 keys width comparison within same size variant - the difference between 61-key models

 

2) key width comparison between 61 and 76 key models - the difference in FA series, no difference in Fantom-0 series

 

3) general size comparison, Fantom-0 boards are shorter and have rounded edges, but are slightly deeper

 

 

 

[Mr -G-]

And I was expecting polyphonic aftertouch...

[Fleer]

 

[AnotherScott]

I'm picking up here from rickzjamm's comment in the "Is the Integra 7 still relevant?" thread. He already has an FA-06 he sometimes uses over his Yamaha YC88, but is looking to gig with just a single board, which is why he resisted a suggestion to buy the Fantom-06 instead of the Integra (not that the two are really equivalent anyway, already discussed there.)

 

This led to my own thought about why, as appealing as the Fantom-0 looks to me, I'm leaning toward keeping the Integra as my primary source of potential Rolandness. Not because I want to get my typical 2-board rig down to 1, but similarly (or opposite-ly, depending on how you look at it), it's that I don't want my typical 2-board rig to increase to 3, and at this point, I don't think the Fantom-0 is quite the best fit for me in a pair. This actually kind of surprised me as I thought about it, because I had wished that the Fantom 7 were lighter, thinking it would be close to my perfect board, and here they almost give it to me, and I'm not biting! In that context (and also somewhat summarizing a recent long post in the "Dig My Rig" thread):

 

My current bottom is a Yamaha YC73. Fantom-08 would be much more capable, but mostly in ways I care about more in a top board. As a bottom, I prefer the YC73 because I like the Yamaha's pianos/EPs better (the most common sounds played on a bottom), I prefer playing the Yamaha's action (compared to having played Roland's PHA-4 elsewhere), I prefer the 3 lb lighter weight of the Yamaha (which is already at the cusp of easily manageable), I like having a board in my rig with so many "dedicated function" controls, and I prefer the Yamaha's tonewheel organ emulation/ergonomics (e.g. 9 drawbars with LED indicators, and I think it's probably the better sounding organ as well). I know, we're talking about a hammer action lower board here, but the YC's organ still matters for me because (a) I'd be generally driving the YC's organ from the upper board, and (b) when I feel like playing 2-manual, the YC73's action is surprisingly acceptable for organ work, especially if it's "only" doing "lower manual."

 

So the YC is a better lower board for me that the Fantom-08. I also have a couple of other lower options I like for alternate situations. I have a Dexibell P3 for times I want my piano board to have loud speakers (i.e. because it's doing double-duty as a cocktail hour board or whatever); and I have the Casio Privia which continues to tempt me because I so like when my bottom board is shallow, to keep the setup as compact as possible and to keep my sets of keys near each other. Of course, Fantom-08 doesn't offer any of those advantages over the YC either. So from all angles, the Fantom-08 comes up a bit short for me as a bottom, compared to my other options.

 

So then the question is whether the Fantom-07 could be my ideal top. It would certainly be a great choice. There are lots of ways I can see where I might well prefer it over my current typical top, the Kurzweil PC4-7. I could argue this advantage or that for either one of them. In the end, I think it's the aftertouch that is most tipping the scale for me. This is the part I'm not 100% certain of. I've certainly done plenty of gigs where neither board of my pair had aftertouch--most of them, in fact. It's certainly manageable. I think it will come down to when I finally get to play a Fantom-07... can it possibly wow me so much that I'm willing to replace the PC4-7, giving up the sounds/operation I like there, the aftertouch, the extra sample memory, the DX7-compatible FM synth, the ribbon. It's not impossible... the Fantom interface/ergonomics look really appealing (both for pre-gig programming and at-the-gig patch navigation), and some of its weaknesses relative to the Kurzweil can also be addressed by the YC underneath.

 

So I haven't ruled out the possibility of the Fantom-07, because in the end, I can be tempted by an "intangible" which I guess comes down to which board is more "fun." But I really, really like my Kurzweil. Plus, I already own it. Plus I do have the Integra, which means I already do have access to some of the sounds that most appeal to me in the Fantom-0 (in fact, the Integra still has a much larger number of SuperNATURAL Acoustic tones than does the Fantom, though it would be nice to have those sounds without having to bring and set up a small rack). I'll also mention that I've added the Roland SE-02, so I already have a lead line synth with easily accessible easy control in the rig, which could otherwise be one more Fantom-0 advantage over the Kurzweil's, whose synth editing functions are not as friendly as, for example, the model expansions for Fantom.

 

The last theoretical possibility would be, rather than looking at the Fantom-0 as a replacement for my current top or bottom, to add a Fantom-07 or -06 as a potential third board, but I so rarely want to bother taking three, between the additional schleppage and setup/breakdown time, and sometimes I worry that it looks kind of silly, bordering on Rick Wakeman showing up with his rig to play a junior high school dance. And for the occasional time I do take three, I already have numerous boards battling it out for that position, each with their own strengths (i.e. Roland AX-Edge, Hammond SK Pro, Korg PA1000).

 

So really, the only one that could conceivably make sense for me would be the Fantom-07 as a top. At this point, I can't see swapping out my PC4-7. But I haven't totally ruled out that it could persuade me once I meet it in person. Possibly depending in part on what enhancements may come out for the PC4, They've been good about updates, and I've been meaning to suggest some interface tweaks that could really improve usability for me. And if those were to be implemented, that could be another thumb on the Kurzweil side of the scale.

 

So much of this kind of eval depends on what else you've got. The PC4-7 vs. Fantom-07 comparison looks a bit different by itself than it does when looking at how well each pairs with a YC73, for example. (Or possibly whether you own an Integra, and/or whether you've got a knobby Roland Boutique in the rig.) To me, it's a close call between the Kurz and the Roland if it were going to be my only board. In the context of everything else I've got, the Roland would have that much harder of a time displacing the Kurz. But until I wrap my fingers and ears around one, it's hard to be sure.

[CEB]

Anybody actually touch a 07 or 06?  I talked to Ed about these.  I have high hopes.

[miden]

On 3/19/2022 at 4:33 AM, EscapeRocks said:

That's me as well.  Would I love a full fledged Fantom 8?  Sure.  For the way I use it, in my gig rig, it's not worth  the extra $2K and extra 29lbs, before case.   As I mentioned somewhere above, same reason I pulled the trigger on Nautilus 61 over Kronos 6

 

Same here - dealer offered me a great price for the 08 which is near $3000 cheaper than the Fantom 8 ...So I decided to give it a go and see what it's like...hopefully will have it in a couple of days.

[Aynsley Green]

Yikes, I just bought the fantastic (and fantastically expensive) Yamaha YC88, and then Roland comes out with this complete insanity a month later. Thoughts:

• Too many possibilities. The insane Zencore, the solid Supernatural, the Legacy Roland stuff, the really-quite-convincing Juno, Jupiter, JX8P, SH101, JD800 emulations, the intriguing N-zyme, plus multi-sampling, plus a decent Clonewheel, all in one package?
  • With 16 zones per patch, big polyphony, great Scene/Patch control and no-exceptions Tone Remain?
  • For like, literally a third of the price and weight of a Kronos? Roland have lost their minds!
• This could very well replace my Yamaha MODX6, which is currently my 'lightweight gig rig' and the 'Upper' board in my setup (when I can be bothered to bring it). It would fill in the holes in what the Yamaha YC88 can't do. 
  • For the record, I think the MODX's pianos and acoustic sounds are still better than the Fantom-0. But, the MODX has very average synths and organs, out of the box, which is really what you want your 'Upper' board to do, isn't it?
  • This can, however, be remedied with some of the excellent sample libraries out for the MODX, with its 1GB of storage,, but that's some extra dollars.
• Had a Roland FA-06 before, solid sounds, but rubbish action, fiddly interface due to no touchscreen, cheap build quality, and very 90s looks. 'It looks like a Playstation', the bandleader said.
• I can't say in my 15 years of gigging have I ever used aftertouch, but that's just me. The Mod Wheel, the Expression Pedal, and the Roland-wiggly-stick is plenty.
• I am very tempted

 

[nadroj]

Just to add in: the new Roland isn’t currently compatible with the N-Zyme expansion. You need the full Fantom for that. 

[M_G]

 

.... and the JD800 is also not (yet?) available for the Fantom Series.

 

The Synthmodels (JP, JX, SH, Juno) are not included in the Fantom 0 series. They have to be bought in the roland cloud.

That relativates the higher cost for the big fantoms a bit.....

 

[omvibes]

And, as far as I know (from another forum), the synth model expansions come in at about 120mb each (iirc), which would mean that not all of them could be loaded at any one time on the keyboard, which has 256mb for expansions/ samples. Happy to be proven wrong on this, because for me that is a major shortcoming (but possibly understandable in terms of competition to the more expensive range).