New Studiologic Numa X Piano

[RandyFF]

20 hours ago, ElmerJFudd said:

Dork = Efficient.  Better than buying it, dragging it home and having to return it because it doesn’t do what you want.  I would definitely record my CP88 and play the wav through monitors at the shop before buying it, which is a short cut to carrying the entire instrument to see how it sounds on APs and EPs. 

Hmmmm….. perhaps many of you are more experienced than myself, but I’ve often found that unless it was a home run or unacceptable, that I do need to take it home and take time to evaluate it properly.  It usually takes trying it out for days to evaluate the sounds, esp APs, and the action is often hard to make a quick judgement call on. 

 

But yeah, I guess since you have a gold standard with your CP88 for evaluation, that could potentially speed up the process.  But pianos are so troublesome to evaluate: sometimes the lower end sounds great but the upper ranges not so much, and evaluating if you like the sound all the way thru the different ranges.  

> My ES920 is my gold standard, but it’s not the final word on what piano sounds I’d enjoy for different kinds of music.  

> So far I’m really enjoying the pianos on the Numa X piano, but they’re different enough from what I’m used to that it’s taking awhile to ‘hear’ them and translate that to what they’d be best on.

 

As much as many bemoan GC, it’s pretty great having a shop with a 45 day return window, and being able to return a board without having to ship it! 

[RandyFF]

3 hours ago, AnotherScott said:

It is disappointing that the Numa X does not include all the MIDI controller functionality of the lower priced SL controllers. I commented about another lost feature earlier in this thread (at https://forums.musicplayer.com/topic/180089-new-studiologic-numa-x-piano/page/24/#comment-2937076 ), that external zones seem to have only "generic" names available, losing the ability to name them using names more descriptive of their sound and source. I had been hoping that the Numa X was a kind of upgraded SL controller... i.e. all the same functionality, plus internal sounds, more real-time controls (e.g. for patch selection), and maybe better action (i.e. TP110 vs TP100)... but it's not.

Given they’ve got Numa Manager, I’m guessing they have the naming of zones you want in the pipeline- it’s a slam dunk using a librarian for such duties.  

[b3plyr]

1 hour ago, RandyFF said:

Given they’ve got Numa Manager, I’m guessing they have the naming of zones you want in the pipeline- it’s a slam dunk using a librarian for such duties.  

I have requested this feature from Studiologic.

[stoken6]

5 hours ago, AnotherScott said:

It is disappointing that the Numa X does not include all the MIDI controller functionality of the lower priced SL controllers.

I'm hoping that Studiologic's next controller uses the TP/110 and adds this kind of additional functionality.

 

Cheers, Mike.

[AnotherScott]

1 hour ago, RandyFF said:

Given they’ve got Numa Manager, I’m guessing they have the naming of zones you want in the pipeline- it’s a slam dunk using a librarian for such duties.  

 

36 minutes ago, b3plyr said:

I have requested this feature from Studiologic.

 

I also found it surprising since the basic design seems to be largely a lift from the SL controller... which kinda means they almost had to work to take that functionality OUT.

[CHarrell]

15 minutes ago, AnotherScott said:

 

 

I also found it surprising since the basic design seems to be largely a lift from the SL controller... which kinda means they almost had to work to take that functionality OUT.

 

More like StudiNOlogic am I right????

[CHarrell]

On 8/8/2023 at 2:51 PM, ElmerJFudd said:

If you can sit at a PXS6000 let us know.  I personally didn't care for the PXS1000/3000 action at all.  

 

There's a 7000 at a store like an hour bus ride away from me, and I don't even know how long the ride back would be...it'd be such a stupid move, who'd even be weird enough to make that trek just to push some plastic blocks down and make sounds?  ...

 

 

[ElmerJFudd]

13 minutes ago, CHarrell said:

 

There's a 7000 at a store like an hour bus ride away from me, and I don't even know how long the ride back would be...it'd be such a stupid move, who'd even be weird enough to make that trek just to push some plastic blocks down and make sounds?  ...

 

 

I’m just as nuts - others here as well.  I hate “buy to try” and eat the return shipping.  I’ll drive the two hours, maybe 3 to spend a half hour/hour on an instrument to know if it’s for me or not. 
 

I most recently spoke to a player who felt there wasn’t much difference in action between the S3000 and an S6000 if any.  I prefer their longer key action on the previous models (360/560) to the short key designs on these newer slim form factor keyboards.  

[CHarrell]

5 minutes ago, ElmerJFudd said:

I hate “buy to try” and eating the return shipping.

 

Not to mention the week or so that it takes to get the board shipped to you, and the week it'd take to get the board sent back, then the refund processed!

 

6 minutes ago, ElmerJFudd said:

 

I most recently spoke to a player who felt there wasn’t much difference in action between the S3000 and an S6000.

 

Oof. I dunno, is it worth it at that point? 😅

6 minutes ago, ElmerJFudd said:

I prefer their longer key action on the other models (360/560) to the short key designs on these newer slim form factor keyboards.  

 

I'm still floating around the idea of getting a PX5S and using that as controller for my iPad, but I dunno.

[ElmerJFudd]

10 minutes ago, CHarrell said:

 

Not to mention the week or so that it takes to get the board shipped to you, and the week it'd take to get the board sent back, then the refund processed!

 

 

Oof. I dunno, is it worth it at that point? 😅

 

I'm still floating around the idea of getting a PX5S and using that as controller for my iPad, but I dunno.

If you’re definitely sure that you prefer the sound of Pianoteq on your iPad to any piano they have in these sub $1.5k keyboards then it’s really just the action you’re after.  Take the iPad with you and make your pick.  For light weight and functional I’d personally go for an ES-120 at $949 (remember when they were $899 before post Covid inflation?).  A PX-5S is in the ballpark for playability at $1099 (remember when these were $799?).   Otherwise for a jump in quality you also jump price and weight with a CP88 or an SV2. 

[CHarrell]

1 minute ago, ElmerJFudd said:

If you’re definitely sure that you prefer the sound of Pianoteq on your iPad to any piano they have in these sub $1.5k keyboards then it’s really just the action you’re after.  Take the iPad with you and make your pick.  For light weight and functional I’d personally go for an ES-120 at $949 (remember when they were $899 before post Covid inflation?).  A PX-5S is in the ballpark for playability at $1099 (remember when these were $799?).   Otherwise for a jump in quality you also jump price and weight with a CP88 or an SV2. 

 

Yeah, like I said, I don't know. I do have a local store that actually has a new PX-5S, AKA not the disgusting one that GC sold to me in "very good" condition. I've been trying to be weight-conscious (in more ways than one), but at this point I'm just getting frustrated at my indecisiveness. As a pure piano playing experience the most I've enjoyed is the ES920, and the sounds in there I think are good enough where I wouldn't need an external sound source, but the performance features of the CP are amazing. Sigh. I'm gonna go check out the MP7SE at my local GC today instead of the PXS7000, and make a call based on the keybed and sounds (though I remember actually liking the feel of the ES over the MP).

[CHarrell]

17 minutes ago, ElmerJFudd said:

For light weight and functional I’d personally go for an ES-120 at $949 (remember when they were $899 before post Covid inflation?).  A PX-5S is in the ballpark for playability at $1099 (remember when these were $799?).

 

Interestingly, I'm seeing the PX5S go for 899 at several retailers now, so maybe Casio's lowering things again?

[ElmerJFudd]

17 minutes ago, CHarrell said:

 

Interestingly, I'm seeing the PX5S go for 899 at several retailers now, so maybe Casio's lowering things again?

$1099 is the new advertised price at Sweetwater and Kraft.  I’m sure you can find a dealer willing to go below. 
 

I wish Casio would get off their arses and update the 5S.  They have a ton of user feedback that would help make a refresh a hit again with players again.  

[ewall08530]

53 minutes ago, CHarrell said:

 

Not to mention the week or so that it takes to get the board shipped to you, and the week it'd take to get the board sent back, then the refund processed!

 

 

Oof. I dunno, is it worth it at that point? 😅

 

I'm still floating around the idea of getting a PX5S and using that as controller for my iPad, but I dunno.

I’ve owned and played Casio PX 5S.  PX S-3000 and now the PX S-7000. I feel each one has gotten progressively better and I’m real happy with the 7000.  

[CHarrell]

15 minutes ago, ElmerJFudd said:

I wish Casio would get off their arses and update the 5S.

 

I'm genuinely shocked and confused by their game plan here...early to mid 10s the market was flooded with a continual stream of Privia stage pianos...my first ever stage piano was a trusty PX-130 (a moment to salute the 1/8 to 1/4 inch adapters who gave their all to make that thing speak), then several years later I had upgraded to the 350. And now? From the PXS series, it's obvious they're not concerned with oversaturating the market, so that can't be it. 

4 minutes ago, ewall08530 said:

I’ve owned and played Casio PX 5S.  PX S-3000 and now the PX S-7000. I feel each one has gotten progressively better and I’m real happy with the 7000.  

 

Have you played the ES8 or 920?

[ewall08530]

3 minutes ago, CHarrell said:

 

I'm genuinely shocked and confused by their game plan here...early to mid 10s the market was flooded with a continual stream of Privia stage pianos...my first ever stage piano was a trusty PX-130 (a moment to salute the 1/8 to 1/4 inch adapters who gave their all to make that thing speak), then several years later I had upgraded to the 350. And now? From the PXS series, it's obvious they're not concerned with oversaturating the market, so that can't be it. 

 

Have you played the ES8 or 920?

No, but I own an ES 520  (with buzzy speakers) and I like that action just a little more than the S-7000.  I want something substantial to just sit in my music room and practice/play so the 520 is that.  It’s disappointing that the onboard speakers are annoying but I’ve shut them off and play it through 2 Bose S-1’s and I’m happy.  

  The Casio S-7000 is perfect for my solo piano gigs. It looks great, elegant really, small footprint, 32lbs and I love the Berlin and NY Steinway.  It would never work as a “stage piano” however.  Too hard to see in daylight, and navigate in general.  I put my 4 favorite pianos in the corresponding F-Buttons and I’m good.  

[CHarrell]

3 minutes ago, ewall08530 said:

(with buzzy speakers)

 

Yeah, even at my local GC when they had a used ES920 to try out, I experienced the speaker issue, which you might be able to somewhat rectify by placing some kind of weight on it to prevent the chassis from resonating, but it's never fun to DIY solutions to problems that shouldn't be there. 

 

5 minutes ago, ewall08530 said:

 It would never work as a “stage piano” however.  Too hard to see in daylight, and navigate in general.

 

That's good insight to have: like Kawai, they have an app to allow you control over the keyboard, but unlike Kawai, they strangely don't allow you to control every aspect of the keyboard. (??) So you're stuck using that PXS interface to dig into the surprisingly comprehensive amount of features it has to its name.

[ElmerJFudd]

MP7SE is their only speakerless offering of the RHIII action.  

Is the compact action II in the 520 actually an improvement of the compact action in the 120? By any significant amount? 

[ElmerJFudd]

5 hours ago, ewall08530 said:

The Casio S-7000 is perfect for my solo piano gigs. It looks great, elegant really, small footprint, 32lbs and I love the Berlin and NY Steinway.  It would never work as a “stage piano” however.  Too hard to see in daylight, and navigate in general.  I put my 4 favorite pianos in the corresponding F-Buttons and I’m good.  

Do you actually carry the stand and triple pedal system?   Or you remove it and use a table type or X stand and portable pedal(s).  Can you share which stand and pedal(s) you use?  

[CyberGene]

The Numa X pianos sound much better than Pianoteq IMO but I’m notorious for disliking PT. I wouldn’t bother with external hardware/software pianos when the onboard pianos are more than serviceable. Same for Rhodes.

[ewall08530]

5 hours ago, ElmerJFudd said:

MP7SE is their only speakerless offering of the RHIII action.  

Is the compact action II in the 520 actually an improvement of the compact action in the 120? By any significant amount? 

The ES 520 is the only Kawai I’ve ever played.  I preordered the 120 during the pandemic but I grew weary of the waiting due to supply chain disruption. 

[ewall08530]

5 hours ago, ElmerJFudd said:

Do you actually carry the stand and triple pedal system?   Or you remove it and use a table type or X stand and portable pedal(s).  Can you share which stand and pedal(s) you use?  

No way for me to use that Casio designer stand on gigs.  I use a Gator folding table stand.  
The cable on the triple pedal that comes with the S-7000 is too short to use without the custom stand but I owned the earlier Casio Triple pedal (used with an S-3000) and it’s compatible.  

[RandyFF]

22 hours ago, CHarrell said:

 

More like StudiNOlogic am I right????

I’ve often wondered about the adding on of features with keyboards.  If I was Studiologic, I would designate various features that are ready to be included, but hold them back so that people would notice the various updates in a timely manner!  They have gotten many kudos on this forum for example for exactly that.

 

Of course there’s probably lots of features that have been partially implemented but not thoroughly bug-tested.

 

I’ve also wondered to what degree you’d be able to cut and paste many functions-? Being that SL already has controller boards, wouldn’t that be a slam dunk to simply use code you’ve already perfected?

[CHarrell]

On 8/9/2023 at 3:40 PM, ElmerJFudd said:

most recently spoke to a player who felt there wasn’t much difference in action between the S3000 and an S6000 if any.  I prefer their longer key action on the previous models (360/560) to the short key designs on these newer slim form factor keyboards

 

On my way back from the store, the curiosity satisfied from my fingertips. The player you spoke to was right. Still a reallllly light action, with some improved white/black key balancing.

[ElmerJFudd]

26 minutes ago, CHarrell said:

 

On my way back from the store, the curiosity satisfied from my fingertips. The player you spoke to was right. Still a reallllly light action, with some improved white/black key balancing.

That’s what I figured.  Thanks for sharing.  Aside from being organ-like, the key length is also short on these slim models.  

[kanefsky]

 

38 minutes ago, CHarrell said:

 

On my way back from the store, the curiosity satisfied from my fingertips. The player you spoke to was right. Still a reallllly light action, with some improved white/black key balancing.

 

 

Here's a review from Stu at Merriam Music comparing the two actions

 

 

 

[CHarrell]

21 minutes ago, kanefsky said:

 

 

 

Here's a review from Stu at Merriam Music comparing the two actions

 

 

 

 

Yeah I've watched that and to be honest I think reviews like this got me too hyped. If someone asked me what the better deal would be between the two, I would say the 3100 without hesitation. It is _nutso_ that _this_ is what Casio decided is worth the big bucks. The alternatives, both in this price range and, shucks, lower, smoke this thing like cocktail weenies.

[ElmerJFudd]

40 minutes ago, CHarrell said:

 

Yeah I've watched that and to be honest I think reviews like this got me too hyped. If someone asked me what the better deal would be between the two, I would say the 3100 without hesitation. It is _nutso_ that _this_ is what Casio decided is worth the big bucks.

It is the strangest thing (to me) that slim - front to back width - was a goal.  I can see left to right being important to some.  To carry on your back, to fit across the  back seat of a car.  But shaving off a bit of depth and shortening the key length to achieve that… It’s a strange goal (imho).   Stu knows what it means to the physics.  Improved key mass, better dampening on attack and release. All very nice. Just give it longer keys and a better pivot point. 🤷‍♂️  But, if one really wants the slimmest keyboard around  and as good a short keyed action as possible - these do seem to be it.  

 

Leon is a monster player and goes over key length on these models.  

 

Maybe wood sides, better dampening and texture will get into the rest of the line, 370, 570, 6S or whatever they will number them.  

[AnotherScott]

7 hours ago, ElmerJFudd said:

It is the strangest thing (to me) that slim - front to back width - was a goal.  I can see left to right being important to some.  To carry on your back, to fit across the  back seat of a car.  But shaving off a bit of depth and shortening the key length to achieve that… It’s a strange goal (imho).  

 

I think portability--and gigging players in particular--represent a small percentage of the target market for these Casios, and so is not the reason these things are as slim as they are. I think the appeal is more in general aesthetics and space considerations. Set up in someone's bedroom or dorm room (or in a situation where it is stored in some space between uses), every inch may matter. In a living room, taking up little room, looking elegant and not visually overwhelming are plusses.

 

And in a showroom, they may simply look more cool and eye-catching than their larger competitors, more modern.

 

That said, we have certainly had people here mentioning their desire to keep their stage footprint as small as possible.

 

For whatever reason, it seems to be working. If Casio weren't having success with these new models, I suspect Yamaha would not have made small size a goal of their new P-225.

[ElmerJFudd]

19 minutes ago, AnotherScott said:

 

I think portability--and gigging players in particular--represent a small percentage of the target market for these Casios, and so is not the reason these things are as slim as they are. I think the appeal is more in general aesthetics and space considerations. Set up in someone's bedroom or dorm room (or in a situation where it is stored in some space between uses), every inch may matter. In a living room, taking up little room, looking elegant and not visually overwhelming are plusses.

 

And in a showroom, they may simply look more cool and eye-catching than their larger competitors, more modern.

 

That said, we have certainly had people here mentioning their desire to keep their stage footprint as small as possible.

 

For whatever reason, it seems to be working. If Casio weren't having success with these new models, I suspect Yamaha would not have made small size a goal of their new P-225.

1.8” of depth, .65 square feet of space savings on stage, in the living room, bedroom, dorm room at the expense of key length and pivot point. 🤷‍♂️ If they are winning, and the P-255 suggests some % of sales have been grabbed, it’s a strange occurrence (to me).  There’s no accounting for fashion trends.