New Studiologic Numa X Piano

[kenheeter]

Personally, I think you're brilliant and you have really figured out how to get the most out of your Numa X! I'm sure we'll all be trying some of these great ideas.

 

[b3plyr]

I think we are seeing how well Studiologic designed the architecture of the Numa. I’m supprised no one else noted the 4 zone midi capability. It was one of the reasons I bought the Numa X. Noah DC figured it out - he is using the keyboard the way it was meant to be. Well done, Noah DC!

[Mills Dude]

The more you guys uncover about this board makes me want it. If I were to start gigging again, I'd probably pick one up.

 

All this talk about Nord and the Stage models being the swiss army knife and costing an arm and a leg. This board seems like a budget swiss army knife for cheapos like me. Attach an iPad, buy a few apps and you get your Hammond simulator and other synths.

[b3plyr]

26 minutes ago, Mills Dude said:

The more you guys uncover about this board makes me want it. If I were to start gigging again, I'd probably pick one up.

 

All this talk about Nord and the Stage models being the swiss army knife and costing an arm and a leg. This board seems like a budget swiss army knife for cheapos like me. Attach an iPad, buy a few apps and you get your Hammond simulator and other synths.

Another neat feature is the 4 channel audio mixer with 4 analog inputs. I use it in my duo - between that and the USB midi and audio interface I don’t even take a mixer. I hope to present some info on my microphone experiences in the future. 

 

And when we talk budget Swiss Army knife, remember that since Fatar owns Studiologic we probably are not paying for pass through on the cost of the keybed. This helps keep the cost down and adds value. Based on the construction and performance of the Numa X, the only thing budget about it is the cost. For my purposes, the TP110 and TP400 (both are new versions), are the best keybeds I’ve played in a long time. I will be selling my Nord Grand. In fairness, to each their own.

[AnotherScott]

1 hour ago, Mills Dude said:

All this talk about Nord and the Stage models being the swiss army knife and costing an arm and a leg. This board seems like a budget swiss army knife for cheapos like me. Attach an iPad, buy a few apps and you get your Hammond simulator and other synths.

Sonically, if Nord is mostly about piano, organ, and VA synth, the Numa has (generally lesser) piano, no organ, no VA synth. You can add the iPad, but you can add the iPad to lots of boards. If you don't have the drawbars and actual synth controls, it's not like the Nord experience.  Same with all the effects controls. Numa has its strengths, but in a sense, they are opposite of Nord's strengths. Nord is about maximizing hands-on control, the Numa seems to be more about intelligent use of a very minimal set of controls, so at the expense of the immediacy for extensive real-time sound programming/tweaking. But as has been discussed here often in the past, more players probably just combine presets than ever program or substantially modify a sound, or tweak any parameters during performance.

 

But getting back to the idea of using it as much as an iPad MIDI controller as for its own sounds, here's a question for those who have played with it. When I briefly looked into it, I similarly was thinking I'd have to fill in gaps with an iPad, and what turned me off from it was a screenshot like this one:

 

 

I didn't like the on-screen representation of the MIDI zone in the lower right quadrant. By any chance, is that display customizable? I don't want it to say MIDI USB 1, I want to be able to edit it to say B3X 888, MoogD Saw Lead, Ravenscroft, whatever. Any chance that's do-able? And either way, having defined an external zone with the settings you want to invoke B3X for example, can you then copy that zone into other locations? Or, if I want to make that sound part of some other combination-of-four, do I have to re-enter the Program Change info etc. from scratch every time?

 

I guess in the end what I'm wondering is, if you're going to get most of your sounds externally, where are the operational/ease advantages over other boards that are 4-zone controllers, vs. where might it fall short?

 

 

[AnotherScott]

Picking up from the previous post, here's a shot from the Studiologic SL73, that shows what I want to be able to do in terms of display/selection of external sounds, but from the manual, I didn't see any way to do this on the Numa X. 

 

 

So far, the best board-with-sounds that I've found for this kind of thing is the MODX/MODX+/Montage. You can name each externally zoned sound any way you want, you can re-use those sounds in other sound combinations (without having to re-enter any of the info). And (once you figure out how to do it!) you can easily see the names of all your currently active internal and external sounds (up to 8, in any combination) and switch between them (singly or in defined combinations) with the Scene buttons. And of course, it's a got a great internal sound set. But there's no compact 73 hammer action version...

[CyberGene]

@AnotherScott, here's a screenshot from the manual:

 

In the list of parameters for a MIDI zone there is also the name, although it's not shown in the actual screen example. Maybe it's possible to rename the zone from the "MIDI USB [ch]" to something custom? Someone with a Numa on this thread should be able to confirm.

[b3plyr]

Here is the scoop. It is easy to change the Program name. You use Numa Manager. However, you cannot currently name a Midi zone. Studiologic would like to add that capability, but they are making no promises. Unfortunately, the name parameter mentioned by CyberGene does not do what we want.

[b3plyr]

On 2/20/2023 at 12:23 AM, AnotherScott said:

Sonically, if Nord is mostly about piano, organ, and VA synth, the Numa has (generally lesser) piano, no organ, no VA synth.

 

 

I don’t agree with the *generally lesser) piano”. I have a Nord Grand sitting beside my Numa X GT and the Nord pianos, to my ear, are no better than the GT. In most cases I prefer the GT pianos. Agree with the rest.

[HammondDave]

On 2/19/2023 at 2:46 PM, CyberGene said:

the

I am very impressed with the new firmware update. The Wurlie 200 sounds exactly like my vintage 200!  Lots of great improvements to an already excellent board. 

[b3plyr]

7 hours ago, HammondDave said:

I am very impressed with the new firmware update. The Wurlie 200 sounds exactly like my vintage 200!  Lots of great improvements to an already excellent board. 

Absolutely agree - EPs really nice. And Dave, thanks for your initial review - it convinced me to give the Numa X a try. Now I have a Numa X 88 and a GT! They have proven great to gig with!

[synthetic7]

On 6/14/2022 at 10:28 AM, wd8dky said:

Has anyone received an estimated delivery date for the 73?  In the US? 

 

Thx

May 2023 for Australia 

[Littidy]

On 1/4/2023 at 1:12 PM, b3plyr said:

I'm curious if you actually compared the two keyboards side by side,  or are using the Numa X soundbites? I've found with my Numa that a little tweaking with the EPs and where necessary, the keyboard settings, you can do a lot. 

Have them both b3plyr. Numa is getting better though with updates. Seven still shines but numa is more functional. The seven only gets gigs where rhodes is essential. Numa is lighter and more durable. Love both. 

[CyberGene]

I just sold the CP88 because it was too heavy to carry and caused me some back pain, besides it was too long to fit in my car trunk. After a lot of consideration I think I'm going to order a Numa X Piano 73. Talk me out of it 😀

 

The other shortlisted candidates:

- YC73, CP73, YC61 - I'm not sure I like the BHS action in the 73-s. And I owned a YC61 that I loved even for piano playing but 5-octaves are limiting. Besides, all these boards are kind of expensive for my needs, as I realized I just play 1-2 times a month for fun with friends, so the Numa at half the price is tempting. 

- Vox Continental - all looks great but haven't tested it and I’m kind of disappointing in lack of split octaves, USB audio, audio inputs. Also, the touch strips do not send continuous values.

 

BTW, I briefly owned a Numa X Piano 88 and was rather underwhelmed by its touch response and the piano sounds but at the time I expected absolutely the best. Now, I'm just needing an occasional gig instrument. And I hope the newest firmware has improved the touch response.

[HammondDave]

24 minutes ago, CyberGene said:

I just sold the CP88 because it was too heavy to carry and caused me some back pain, besides it was too long to fit in my car trunk. After a lot of consideration I think I'm going to order a Numa X Piano 73. Talk me out of it 😀

 

The other shortlisted candidates:

- YC73, CP73, YC61 - I'm not sure I like the BHS a lot. I owned already a YC61 that I loved but 5-octaves are limiting. Besides, all these are kind of expensive for my needs, as I realized I just play 1-2 times a month for fun with friends, so the Numa is half the price.

- Vox Continental - all looks great but haven't tested it and kind of disappointing in lack of split octaves, USB audio, audio inputs. Also, the touch strips do not send continuous values.

 

BTW, I briefly owned a Numa X Piano 88 and was rather underwhelmed by its touch response and the piano sounds but at the time I expected absolutely the best. Now, I'm just needing an occasional gig instrument. And I hope the newest firmware has improved the touch response.

I won’t talk you out of it because Studiologic has made a great keyboard even better than when it was introduced due to firmware keyboard and sound improvements. Build quality, weight,  along with value make this keyboard a great choice. 

[CyberGene]

@HammondDavewell, OK, you talked me in, just ordered it 😀

[b3plyr]

1 minute ago, CyberGene said:

@HammondDavewell, OK, you talked me in, just ordered it 😀

You won’t regret it. I like the Numa X much better than the Nord Grand I’m selling. As Dave said-great board, and not just because of the price,

[CyberGene]

And kudos to @Noah DC for his clever solution to mute/unmute external software instruments from a single MIDI zone on the Numa. Absolutely brilliant and what made me want the Numa 👍🏻

[HammondDave]

1 hour ago, CyberGene said:

@HammondDavewell, OK, you talked me in, just ordered it 😀

When you receive it make sure that you upload the latest OS (2.1) and their new sound files from Numa Manager. 

[thomsurf]

Interresting that you @CyberGene made the switch from Numa to CP88 and now back again. Let us know how it goes!

I believe I got one of the first Numa X in Europe and kind of loved it but ultimately had to let it go mainly because of acoustic piano playability. I understand that there’s been some useful updates and now I’m playing with the thought of selling my CP88 and get a Numa GT instead. The CP isn’t as great as I had expected. I cannot find the sounds I’m looking for. It sounds a bit dull and short decayed - and I hate the reverb effect. Not too keen on the exagerated texture on the black keys either. We’ll see… 

[CyberGene]

I received my Numa X Piano 73 today. I'll probably write a more detailed review later, however here are some first impressions. (I owned a Numa X Piano 88 with the initial firmware for some time and posted some impressions in this thread earlier).

 

It seems very compact and small. At a first glance I thought it was 5-octaves. They managed to squeeze 73-keys in the absolute minimum space. It's also very light at 11.7kg. Size and weight were the main reasons to downgrade from the CP88 to it, so not disappointed here.

 

The keyboard action is OK. Not as good as the one in the CP88 but I guess that's expected for half the price. It's better than the TP-100LR in my SL73 though that I hated so much. It's very playable and is not tiring.

 

It came with firmware 2.0 but I installed 2.10 and all the additional sounds.

 

I still have complaints with all the acoustic pianos being kind of dull when played pianissimo. The touch response is better than what I remember from firmware 1.10, however the general piano character is somehow strange. Playing pianissimo bass notes sounds as though they just got a regular mp sample and lowered the volume. I miss the soft character of real pianissimo. It kind of depends on the actual piano model and is more/less pronounced depending on the samples. However it's always there. Then, pianissimos in the middle and upper regions are synthetic and non-piano-like.

 

It's not the end of the world and since I don't need this as my main piano, nor for solo piano, I'm OK. But it's certainly a compromise, compared to the CP88. However I find the variety of all the piano samples really good, there are darker ones, bright ones, more intimate, more direct, etc. For a stage instrument it offers a lot.

 

The Rhodes sounds are above average although still lagging behind CP88.

 

The highest E key creates a loud thump on release. Funnily enough, I unscrewed slightly one of the screws in the side panel (the one that sits below the Studiologic rotated V-sign) and that solved it. I guess the hammer touches the screw when fully screwed 😀 But I am OK with the workaround. However something is wrong either by design, or with this particular unit. Not the end of the world.

 

I had difficulties turning the instrument on. I even thought it was defective. Turns out I have to press it very slowly and there's some detection logic in the middle of the button travel that detects it. If I press it quickly and hold it pressed, nothing would happen. Pretty weird and I'm wondering if it's by design or defective.

 

I noticed that from time to time when turning the main knob to change sounds, it wouldn't advance to the next sound but would go back to the previous and then advance to the current which is visible on the screen but I end up staying on the same sound. Doesn't happen always but still happens from time to time. I've seen other people mentioning the same problem.

 

Anyway, I think those are minor problems and for now it's a keeper at least for my needs.

 

BTW, the aftertouch is really good for a hammer action. I could easily activate vibrato on synth sounds by pressing the key further and I didn't have to break my fingers to activate it. It's very nice that such an inexpensive piano with hammer actions can send channel aftertouch. I think I will use it a lot with virtual instruments on my Mac

[kenheeter]

I have learned to press and hold the power switch for a moment. That seems to help. I asked Gianni if they could possibly include auto power on in a firmware update. We'll see.

[CyberGene]

In my case if I press the switch quickly it just doesn't work, regardless of whether I hold it or not. The only way to turn the piano on is to press the power button very slowly. It's interesting that when I press it quickly I hear some clicks and noises in my headphones, so something is going on but the piano won't turn on, nothing appears on the display.

 

P.S. Just tested another way to turn it on, that's a variation of the above. So, I press it quickly and hold it but nothing happens. If I release it quickly again nothing happens. But if I start releasing it slowly it would switch on 😀

 

The piano is apparently quirky as is everything Italian😀 BTW, I love Italy and everything Italian 🇮🇹❤️ So, it's not a critique, just an observation.

[Al Coda]

2 hours ago, CyberGene said:

The piano is apparently quirky as is everything Italian😀 BTW, I love Italy and everything Italian 🇮🇹❤️ So, it's not a critique, just an observation.

 

... and exactly those observations always hold be back from buying such gear.

WHO is willing to tinker with on/off switch issues ?

Maybe there comes the day it automaticly turns off while performing on stage.

 

 

A.C.

[CyberGene]

30 minutes ago, Al Coda said:

nd exactly those observations always hold me back from buying such gear.

WHO is willing to tinker w( on/off switch issues ?

Maybe there comes the day it automaticly turns off while performing on stage.

Hard to argue with that 👍🏻 I'll mail Giani Giudici who already answered some of my general questions while I was waiting for the piano to arrive. He's very responsive. Hopefully, the switch issue is not actually an issue but just a peculiarity that will be consistent and just need that I always press it slowly.

[counterpoint]

My experience, like yours, is that you need to press the on/off switch more slowly compared to other keyboards (the PX5S switch is that way too).  No doubt there have been many quirks to the Numa X but they seem to be ticking them off and not burying their head in the sand like some other manufacturers do.  I have had some issues along the way, but Gianni is very accessible and responsive and Studiologic has been great about not sitting on firmware updates to fix things.  I had thought about returning it but held on to it because I see and believe there is a strong commitment on their part to get it right.

 

Just a comment on the keybeds for the CP88 versus the Numa X 73...I believe the former has graded hammer action while the latter has a balanced hammer action so it should feel different because of that alone.  No doubt I noticed this when switching my bottom board from a PX5s to the Numa...but having played a Rhodes for many years in my youth, it didn't take me long to get used to it....and knowing I have the same TP 110 keybed as the Nord Piano 5 at less than half the price makes it feels even nicer!

 

My top board is a YC61 which allowed me to listen to the pianos comparatively.  I generally agree with Gene's assessment of the Numa X piano sounds but one of the things that attracted me to the Numa X was that it would have different piano sounds based on the model/sample approach.  I like having a diverse choice.  The Numa is also a great controller for the YC pianos. 

[b3plyr]

The first Numa 88 I bought had the switch problem. Turning on was a bit of an issue. I returned the keyboard, got a new one, and now I am happy. I do a short push and the keyboard comes on. I have done this hundreds of times on two Numas - a Numa 88 and a Numa GT with no problem. You should not have to worry about that switch - it should work every time. For those of you with the issue, unless Gianni gives you an alternative, return the keyboard but do get another.

 

As to likes and dislikes of the piano, try using the tweaks you have available, both just for the piano and also the keyed itself. Also, the TP110 is, of course, going to be different than the CP88. Look at the difference in weight.

 

Wow, I'm starting to sound like a fanboy! Keep the comments coming - we will all benefit.

[CyberGene]

Frankly, I'm not bothered if I have to press the switch more slowly unless it's an indication of an underlying problem. I'll prefer keeping the board rather than exchanging it. But I'll see what Gianni would advise me.

 

BTW, I realize my post above may sound kind of harsh, however despite the criticism and the few issues, I still find the board very cleverly made and full of excellent features. Even the 4-zone MIDI implementation along with the USB interface and 4 audio ins is enough for me to keep it and love it. The added sounds are a nice bonus.

 

I had another hour with it and this time I concentrated on the Rhodes sound and the modeled parameters. IMO the default presets are a bit exaggerated and in your face, but tweaking the hammer, offset and tine parameters gives a lot of headroom for experimentation and I was able to dial in a Rhodes I like. Besides, the effects are top notch, certainly comparable to the ones in the CP88 and I think I can safely say they elevate the Rhodes experience to a higher level.

 

There are some sounds that shouldn't be there though, some of the hybrid FM pianos sound like coming from a cheap toy keyboard and that kind of spoils it. On the CP88 every single sound there was fantastic, no lame stuff, they chose those sounds very carefully and I think that's a good strategy for impressing the customers. Studiologic should do the same, go through the sounds and just delete those that are mediocre, nobody would use them for certain, especially in these times of top-notch plugins.

 

BTW, the additional pianos that can be downloaded from the website are IMO better than the stock ones. I am especially impressed with the Yamaha C-something and the Steinway B. The default Steinway that is stored in performance 1 is probably one of the dullest pianos and shouldn't be the showcase model when one turns the piano on.

 

P.S. And just a heads-up. I purchased the Gator GKB-61 Slim soft bag from Thomann. It was listed as having the exact same internal dimensions as the Numa X 73. Well, it's a very tight fit which might be uncomfortable since it's tricky to squeeze the piano inside. I'm OK with that and I hope it will loosen with time.

[obxa]

FWIW:

After first using the Numa cold on solo and duo gigs was going to get rid of it.  It sounded weird, especially through my Bose, and first couple of gigs I couldn't bond with it. 

 

 I tend to use the "Vintage" piano,  and have found turning the string release and duplex WAY down (like almost off....) made a gigantic difference.  Adjusted the sensitivity.   Also did EQ/FX tweaks for mono, as well stereo sounds, and now I'm super satisfied.   I'm baffled why so many settings (like pedal noise) are jacked up on the Numa.  At very least turning the reverb down, and the aforementioned piano parameters will really help.

 

  Just finished a month of multiple large theater shows on 2.0  Using piano string layers, Wurli, and some marimba/vibes things.  All the many FOH folks were very happy..   Didn't want to risk installing 2.1 update,  but will now that I'm home. 

 

My only complaint would really welcome any ideas, maybe should be a separate post.) Haven't figured how to integrate Numa program change with this particular rig:   NordS2, Numa, Mainstage and Ipad.

 

 Currently send bluetooth program changes from Forscore  to the Nord using a Yamaha BT adaptor.  Nice clean setup.

Problem is Nord doesn't have  Midi Thru, nor does the Numa (on the 5 pin)... so have no way to daisy chain them.     I need ton of  preset changes with the Nord, and that works great w/Forscore.     Mainstage is just a few String/brass/orch  sounds, and those get played/controlled  from that Nord's BT midi out, with liberal use of the external section stored within the Nord patches-which unfortunately can only do 1 channel and no way to feed the Numa.

Numa is my bottom board piano.  I can get by with 5 or 6  patches for a typical show,  but would love to have them automated without adding a clunky interface/midi thru box.   AFAIK-Forscore can only do one bluetooth at a time, otherwise I'd add another BT adaptor to the Numa.   I wish Studiologic would have option to use the midi out jack as a thru, and it could then be first in line with a short midi cable to the Nord.

I'm considering this:  https://www.cme-pro.com/midi-thru-split-bluetooth-midi/

 

RE:Cases. I tried really hard to use that Gator 61 case, too tight.   I got (and loved) a Yamaha Modx7 case- that worked so well, I was going to get another for my Nord until they spiked the price up $100!!!    I ended up getting a Hammondj Sk1 case- those are reasonable and with a pool noodle fit perfect with the Numa. I had posted the pic in this thread: 

 

[Dockeys]

6 hours ago, obxa said:

 

 I tend to use the "Vintage" piano,  and have found turning the string release and duplex WAY down (like almost off....) made a gigantic difference.  Adjusted the sensitivity.   Also did EQ/FX tweaks for mono, as well stereo sounds, and now I'm super satisfied.   I'm baffled why so many settings (like pedal noise) are jacked up on the Numa.  At very least turning the reverb down, and the aforementioned piano parameters will really help.

I

Jeez when I read this I’m even less convinced about this board. I had it for a few weeks and just didn’t bond with the sound and action enough to hold onto it.  I did love the format and weight and had a brief thought about reconsidering with the new firmware update. But don’t you think the manufacturers should be employing the best possible versions of all sounds to entice people to buy it? I’m not a preset junkie but I’d certainly like to have a board where I can play a sound I’m happy with and not have to resort to menu diving all the time. It’s like buying a car and then having to retune the engine before you drive it. 
 

I dunno, between this and Cybergenes power switch and other issues I’d be slow to look at a Numa until these things were I addressed.