New Studiologic Numa X Piano

[HammondDave]

58 minutes ago, funkyhammond said:

 

The manual does mention that there's a noise gate on the analog inputs. I bet that's what it is. And I think I recall sometimes seeing a line of text come up on the top or bottom of the audio input screen informing me that the noise gate was engaged. This was when I was trying to figure out the inputs and was activating all of them even though I only had something plugged into one of them. I wouldn't have expected the Mojo or the outputs of any pro digital keyboard to have enough noise to trigger a noise gate, though. 

 

 

So do you think that the Mojo 61 is producing too much noise as the noise gate attenuates that signal?  I certainly don't hear it... I wonder if you can turn it off... or use different cables?

[funkyhammond]

5 hours ago, HammondDave said:

So do you think that the Mojo 61 is producing too much noise as the noise gate attenuates that signal?  I certainly don't hear it... I wonder if you can turn it off... or use different cables?

 

I don't recall anything about turning the noise gate off but you should double check what you can see in the audio menus and global menu. 

 

The issue could be anything at this point. I would try to narrow it down. I assume the Yamaha Motif outputs are going to be top quality so why not try plugging the audio of that in with your best cables and see what happens after a long pause? If the Yamaha doesn't have the problem, try the Mojo with those cables. If the Mojo still shows the problem, and you have a good quiet mixer and good headphones, maybe try listening to the output of the Mojo for any subtle noise, as well as after a long pause. One thing that could possibly complicate all this is if there is some noise/interference that is being picked up by the unbalanced patch cables. If you have short cables, you could always try that. Oh, and try just one cable instead of two if you were running stereo.

 

 

[Morrissey]

17 hours ago, funkyhammond said:

18 hours ago, HammondDave said:

 For instance, you miss the first quarter second of an organ stab as the input seems to have some type of attenuator on it (who knows?)...  Once the organ is recognized, there are no further delay issues.

 

The manual does mention that there's a noise gate on the analog inputs. I bet that's what it is. And I think I recall sometimes seeing a line of text come up on the top or bottom of the audio input screen informing me that the noise gate was engaged. This was when I was trying to figure out the inputs and was activating all of them even though I only had something plugged into one of them. I wouldn't have expected the Mojo or the outputs of any pro digital keyboard to have enough noise to trigger a noise gate, though. 

 

I suppose the noise gate is useful for, e.g., a microphone.  But hopefully that gate settings are adjustable because Dave's anecdote is problematic and the mixer function is otherwise a big selling point for me.

[HammondDave]

16 minutes ago, Morrissey said:

 

I suppose the noise gate is useful for, e.g., a microphone.  But hopefully that gate settings are adjustable because Dave's anecdote is problematic and the mixer function is otherwise a big selling point for me.

… and this is what drives me crazy. The manual says “with noise gate deactivated…” but nowhere does it say HOW TO DEACTIVATE IT!!! 
 

[CyberGene]

As far as I understand, the noise gate is automatic. Probably it's active when you boot the piano. Once there is a signal above the noise gate, the noise gate gets disabled. But whether it stays like that until you shut it down or will get re-enabled after a certain period of audio inactivity is a mystery

[HammondDave]

1 minute ago, CyberGene said:

As far as I understand, the noise gate is automatic. Probably it's active when you boot the piano. Once there is a signal above the noise gate, the noise gate gets disabled. But whether it stays like that until you shut it down or will get re-enabled after a certain period of audio inactivity is a mystery

hmmm.  Maybe the signal from the Mojo is too low to activate the noise gate. Remember, there is no issue with the iPad signal at all.   I will give that a try. 

[Noah DC]

For what it’s worth, folks on other forums have found this same issue - see discussion below or the attached screenshot. Certainly hope there’s a workaround or a firmware fix - you could drop a message to Studiologic asking about it.

 

https://www.supportimusicali.it/forum/view/8/44/92955/1/

[funkyhammond]

5 minutes ago, HammondDave said:

hmmm.  Maybe the signal from the Mojo is too low to activate the noise gate. Remember, there is no issue with the iPad signal at all.   I will give that a try. 

 

The iPad signal? Isn't that just USB? I doubt there is a noise gate on that, just the analog inputs for things like mics, noisy effects pedals, etc. You need to test a different instrument into the analog inputs, which is why I suggested the Motif. 

 

And what CyberGene said. The manual is just stating that once it detects a signal, it automatically deactivates the noise gate and then you see the master level on that top line of the screen.

 

I'd try playing with your Mojo master level at both extremes, at max and fairly quiet (as long as you can compensate with the X's gain), just to see if either one makes any difference in the behaviour of the noise gate. 

 

2 minutes ago, Noah DC said:

For what it’s worth, folks on other forums have found this same issue - see discussion below or the attached screenshot. Certainly hope there’s a workaround or a firmware fix - you could drop a message to Studiologic asking about it.

 

Good to know! Start sending your support messages to Studiologic. 

 

 

 

 

[CyberGene]

Automatically re-enabling the noise-gate after a minute is a bad decision, especially if the sensing logic takes half a second to turn it off on incoming audio, I can imagine the frustration. But it seems they can easily fix that through a firmware upgrade and I believe they will do so.

[HammondDave]

Watch this video at 00:33 seconds. The noise gate instantly recognizes the guitar. This is not accurate to what really happens. Let's hope StudioLogic fixes this fast!

 

 

[HammondDave]

Just received this from StudioLogic:

 

”Hi David,

we will release a new Firmware in a few days, with many new features also including the on/off control for the noise gate that is already tested, to solve what you correctly mentioned.

Please check our site in the next days for the new update and related promo.

Let me know, thanks and regards. 

Gianni Giudici
Studiologic Brand Manager”

[CyberGene]

It's good that they are releasing new firmware. Maybe they have somehow fixed/improved the underwhelming pianissimo response with their acoustic pianos and the resonance artifacts. If that's the case, I would be somehow sorry that I returned mine already. But then, instruments should only be released when finalized and refined... That being said, waiting for my CP88 to arrive on Monday.

[HammondDave]

1 hour ago, CyberGene said:

But then, instruments should only be released when finalized and refined... 

 

Oh yes...  This is a problem with most electronic (and auto) manufacturers...  The key is that they are fixing it fast. Can't say the same for some other manufacturers who take a "you don't like it?... Well, we know what's best for you!" attitude.  In my experience, Italian companies are much more responsive to their customer's problems with their products. Crumar is a shining example of this. This is my first experience with StudioLogic, and am impressed that they answered me within 24 hours."

[Al Coda]

1 hour ago, CyberGene said:

instruments should only be released when finalized and refined...

 

LOL,- as an early buyer, you´re the manufacturer´s pro bono betatest-service always !

I wonder why so many people don´t know that and pre-order and buy latest-greatest ASAP.

 

OTOH, I´m happy reading these posts, reports and watch the vids,- which in most cases holds me back from buying new gear.

I´ll follow this Numa X discussion and wait for if Studiologic will improve their instrument models and Midi implementation / Midi CC source/destination assignment w/ firmware updates too.

The noisegate bug is really annoying.

I can´t believe quality control was unable recognizing this before shipment.

The 4 ch. mixer is so important.

What do they smoke ? Can I get that too ? 

 

I really wanted the GT model but what I read her up to now are too many dealbreakers for me.

But I hope for that´s temporary only.

 

☺️

 

A.C.

[AnotherScott]

2 hours ago, CyberGene said:

 instruments should only be released when finalized and refined

 

1 hour ago, HammondDave said:

Oh yes...  This is a problem with most electronic (and auto) manufacturers...  

 

It's the double-edged sword of software-updatable systems. In the old days (70s into the 80s), there was no way a user could update the functionality of the board, so it couldn't be released in a non-final state. If a planned feature wasn't working right and was holding up release, it would just be omitted. If something snuck by that didn't work right in some circumstance, you'd just have to live with it. So software updatability was a boon. But it also means they can release something with the knowledge that something may not be quite ready or completed or fully stress-tested, knowing they can fix/add it later. In the end, though, I think everyone benefits. The companies can release what it still a good usable product that much sooner, which helps them (from a cash flow perspective) and helps us (because we get the boards more quickly). I mean, it's not like the Numa is unusable as is... for many people, what it does now is just fine, and for them, it's good that they've already been able to buy it.

 

But it is interesting how this has actually become a selling point, with boards like Montage, Fantom, CP88/CP73, being marketed from the start as being "platforms" that would be updated with new capabilities. The products' "incompleteness" on its initial ship day isn't a bug, it's a feature! :-)

[HammondDave]

2 hours ago, AnotherScott said:

 

 

But it is interesting how this has actually become a selling point, with boards like Montage, Fantom, CP88/CP73, being marketed from the start as being "platforms" that would be updated with new capabilities. The products' "incompleteness" on its initial ship day isn't a bug, it's a feature! 🙂

 

Funny...  That's one way to look at it.  All I care about is that they quickly fix it, which seems to be happening.  I am curious to what the other "new features" will be.  I think that if StudioLogic continues to develop a sound library that is easily downloadable, it will be a game changer at this price point.  I have seen the interface and it looks very easy to add/remove sounds. Nord has a huge community of users who share sounds with each other. I would love Studiologic to develop the same with a great library platform. 

 

[funkyhammond]

I'm also very curious to see what the new features and fixes are.

 

I prefer this model of doing things over the traditional model. I don't mind things being a bit unrefined on the software side as long as the company has full intention of quickly fixing any issues. Of course, the hardware side better be well thought out or your stuck until the next model release.

[Brad Kaenel]

Sam Ash just called to let me know my Numa X 73 had arrived (!)  Wasn't expecting to see that until end of summer. 😎  Will be out to fetch it on Thursday. More to come...

[Noah DC]

Man, I pre-ordered mine in January and it’s not expected for another month at least. The downside of ordering at Sweetwater or other more popular dealers, I guess…

[Still VanDerGraaf]

Hi all, 

 

I had an account here but somehow through the mists of time I can't access it. Hadn't logged in for like 4 years haha. I was VanDerGraaf and maybe somehow I can get my account back...

 

Anyway I had been following the Numa X Piano story with interest. I increasingly use my 2021 iPad Pro live- the sounds I can achieve are killer- B3x gives me the best Hammond tone I have ever had. Noticing the usb audio integration of the X Piano got my attention.

 

I have one of Studiologic's Numa Compact 2 boards and its a great little rehearsal board, or for quick practice with the on-board speakers. Very very durable too.

 

I took the plunge and ordered an X Piano 73. I just got around to unboxing it today. 

I know the TP110 action is something that people are curious about- I like it. I only played the board acoustically, didn't turn on.

 

I just sold a Kawai VPC1, and of course no, it isn't quite up there, but for a portable board I think the action is a very good compromise. I'd be happy playing piano on this, it feels good. Enough weight to the keys but without being overly heavy. Supple and quick enough to not feel compromised on fast chromatics. I said that I like it. Well, actually I really like it. It's better than I thought it was going to be!

 

The overall build quality is solid. Feels durable. The Numa Compact is a plastic-only construction and that has stood up to some terrible abuse. So with all the metal involved in the chassis, I have high hopes for the Piano X.

 

Sadly though....it's got to go back.

 

The action is generally pretty quiet, but on the G3 and Ab3 there is a clicking sound not present on any other keys. I think this has to be a manufacturing flaw with this particular unit, so I have arranged a return.

However I am confident this board is going to work for me. The retailer I bpught from (Gear4Music, UK-based) has one left in stock. That one will be delivered to me tomorrow, and the other one picked up for return.

 

Will report more on it when I get the other one and power it up. I have a gig on Friday, and plan to go straight into battle with it.

 

Silver lining.

During the period between when I ordered the first one and now, they dropped the retail by £100. So in the end I will have a flawless Piano X and be £100 richer, haha! Watch this space.

[Still VanDerGraaf]

I had a futher thought on the whole software update thing.

 

This may not be possible due to hardware limitations, but if they could somehow reconfigure the mixer routing capabilities to allow some audio to send to the headphone out only, or to the main outs only. If that was in any way possible I could leave my audio interface at home (my iPad covers vocal processing duties as well as keys, so I need discrete outs).

[HammondDave]

3 hours ago, Still VanDerGraaf said:

Hi all, 

 

I had an account here but somehow through the mists of time I can't access it. Hadn't logged in for like 4 years haha. I was VanDerGraaf and maybe somehow I can get my account back...

 

Anyway I had been following the Numa X Piano story with interest. I increasingly use my 2021 iPad Pro live- the sounds I can achieve are killer- B3x gives me the best Hammond tone I have ever had. Noticing the usb audio integration of the X Piano got my attention.

 

I have one of Studiologic's Numa Compact 2 boards and its a great little rehearsal board, or for quick practice with the on-board speakers. Very very durable too.

 

I took the plunge and ordered an X Piano 73. I just got around to unboxing it today. 

I know the TP110 action is something that people are curious about- I like it. I only played the board acoustically, didn't turn on.

 

I just sold a Kawai VPC1, and of course no, it isn't quite up there, but for a portable board I think the action is a very good compromise. I'd be happy playing piano on this, it feels good. Enough weight to the keys but without being overly heavy. Supple and quick enough to not feel compromised on fast chromatics. I said that I like it. Well, actually I really like it. It's better than I thought it was going to be!

 

The overall build quality is solid. Feels durable. The Numa Compact is a plastic-only construction and that has stood up to some terrible abuse. So with all the metal involved in the chassis, I have high hopes for the Piano X.

 

Sadly though....it's got to go back.

 

The action is generally pretty quiet, but on the G3 and Ab3 there is a clicking sound not present on any other keys. I think this has to be a manufacturing flaw with this particular unit, so I have arranged a return.

However I am confident this board is going to work for me. The retailer I bpught from (Gear4Music, UK-based) has one left in stock. That one will be delivered to me tomorrow, and the other one picked up for return.

 

Will report more on it when I get the other one and power it up. I have a gig on Friday, and plan to go straight into battle with it.

 

Silver lining.

During the period between when I ordered the first one and now, they dropped the retail by £100. So in the end I will have a flawless Piano X and be £100 richer, haha! Watch this space.

 

Glad that you are pleased with the X.  I play it at least one hour every day since it was delivered two weeks ago and still love it and the action. I have experienced no clicking sound on the keys, so it must be a manufacturing defect with that particular unit. They also promised a firmware update any day now, so look for that before you take it into battle. If you are going to use it as your primary mixer, you will need this update. 

[drawback]

On 5/16/2022 at 6:03 PM, Brad Kaenel said:

Sam Ash just called to let me know my Numa X 73 had arrived (!)  Wasn't expecting to see that until end of summer. 😎  Will be out to fetch it on Thursday. More to come...

Excellent! Looking forward to your take on the Numa X and how it compares to your Legend ‘70, especially AP/EP sounds & editing. 

[Brad Kaenel]

First impressions:

• Wow; robust build.  Textured (not just painted) metal all around (end caps are plastic; 3D-printer mavens get your Etsy customizers revved up  ).
• Sleek, minimalist look; I don't feel like there are lots of knobs and buttons here that I will never touch.
• Very compact; nicely balanced and easy to handle; has some solid "gravitas".
• Fits snugly (*very* snugly, but bag is new and will stretch out a bit) in a Gator 61 Slim.
• Screen is bright and uncluttered; the color-coded UI is very helpful. Will probably work great on darker stages.
• Almost all the knobbage is multi-dimensional: twist or press, twist or jog, jog or press; even the bender stick is clickable (and works both horizontally and vertically, like a joystick).
• Documentation is minimal; just a "quick start" (and some stickers, of course).
• External PSU (we knew that already).
• Includes a nice VFP-1 sustain pedal (no polarity switch); no music stand, but it does have that accessory rail for adding things like that.
• I like the physics / form-factor of this, and the keybed, *much* more than the YC73 I just demoed, and returned.

 

OK, TP110 keybed...

• Haven't taken it to church yet to play alongside the Legend 70s Compact; more impressions there, later.
• Keys are standard shiny plastic; no texturing.
• I think A.Piano players will like this keybed much more than the TP100.  Feels like it has a bit more key-travel; bottoms-out comfortably; I feel like I'm moving just a bit more mass, which A.Piano players usually like.  I play pretty hard, and on the L70s keybed I usually feel like I get to the bottom of the key-travel just a smidge too early.  But, that keybed is sprung more loosely (my perception) than the Numa, which subjectively I kind of prefer for faster playing.  More to say when I have them side-by-side.
• The aftertouch seems very well implemented.  You don't notice it with normal playing, and you have to lean into it pretty good to get it to trigger, which I like.

 

Just messing around with the presets, I was struck by how useful their 4-tones-per-patch (scene) topology could be in a musical theater setting, which I do a lot of.  Because it's so quick and easy to switch the tones ON/OFF, you can have 4 sounds available for nearly instantaneous swapping; then 4 more in your next Favorite, etc.  A lot of players will appreciate the 4-layers for big multi-tone sounds, and that's probably the intent.  But I just saw it as kind of a "2-dimentional" Favorite; pretty handy.

 

I'm not all that discerning about the hi- or lo-fidelity of the samples, but I haven't found anything that really sounded bad in the headphones. (HammondDave has already dinged the tonewheel organ patches and the cheesy-ish Leslie.  But we know that StudioLogic can, and has, done this well before (Numa Organ 1 & 2), so perhaps these will be improved with later firmware. They're not patches I would use on this keybed, anyway...)

 

So, my out-of-box experience has exceeded expectations.  When I get it to church this weekend I will get some more playing impressions, and let some other players bang on it too for their preferences.

 

(oh, yah, one more thing -- "Disruptive Ease" (??)  I don't get this marketing slogan; sounds like a bad translation...)

 

[HammondDave]

Brad...

 

Make sure you play with the sound editing features of this instrument. Especially the AP’s and EP's...  Makes a world of difference.  Also the Keyboard Sensitivity control.  

 

It looks like your 73 fits perfectly in that Gator Case. I bought the Gator 76Slim case for my 88.  Fits just as well.  I just read lots of bad things about the quality of the cases... We shall see.

[HammondDave]

Maybe “Disruptive Ease” refers to the ease of the user interface “disrupting” the industry. You must admit that the user interface is a lot easier to learn than the competitors’…. 

[AnotherScott]

Nice review, Brad!

 

4 hours ago, Brad Kaenel said:

I like the physics / form-factor of this, and the keybed, *much* more than the YC73 I just demoed, and returned.

 

Did you have a chance to play with the touch velocity depth and offset settings in the YC73 (which are stored per patch)? I originally returned a CP73 because I could not enjoy the feel, but after the updates that added more adjustability, I was able to enjoy the board, and ended up buying and keeping the YC73.

 

4 hours ago, Brad Kaenel said:

Just messing around with the presets, I was struck by how useful their 4-tones-per-patch (scene) topology could be in a musical theater setting, which I do a lot of.  Because it's so quick and easy to switch the tones ON/OFF, you can have 4 sounds available for nearly instantaneous swapping; then 4 more in your next Favorite, etc.  A lot of players will appreciate the 4-layers for big multi-tone sounds, and that's probably the intent.  But I just saw it as kind of a "2-dimentional" Favorite; pretty handy.

 

From the way you describe this, it sounds similar to how the Hammond SK Pro is set up, where a single saved Combination (also recallable as a Favorite) contains four sounds that can each then be selected/de-selected with a single button-press, to be played either individually or in combination. It is a handy functionality. (And then you can navigate from one Combination/Favorite to another either by scrolling/stepping through them, or via the 10-button pad.)

 

Vox Continental Scenes are somewhat similar, they are likewise combinations of 4 sounds that can each then be selected/de-selected with a single button-press, though IIRC, you cannot play more than two of the four simultaneously, and effects among the 4 sounds are shared.

 

The YC73/CP73 are also similar, in that a Live Set includes 3 front panel sounds that you can enable/disable individually, though the controls for the multiple simultaneously available sounds are not all located right next to each other as they are on the Numa, Hammond, and Vox. Also, only the Numa and the Hammond have a display that instantly shows you the names of all those underlying sounds you can enable/disable. The Vox and Yamaha have displays for the various sections that indicate their current sounds, but only with a category indicator and number, not a name.

 

One other difference here is how you switch from one set of 4 (or 3) sounds to another. Scrolling through a list is always possible, but there are also direct front panel buttons to jump directly from one sound to another... Hammond has 10 buttons, Yamaha has 8, Vox has 4. I'm pretty sure that every one of these options also lets you navigate directly from any sound combination to any other, via MIDI. So a smartphone for additional patch selection flexibility might be a nice enhancement for any of them.

 

Something I haven't seen mentioned yet, what does the Numa X offer in terms of seamless transitions between sounds? Within your set of four sounds, can you switch from one to another while holding notes down, without cutting off the old sound when switching to the new? And/or can you switch from one set of four to another set of four without cutting off your first ones?

 

4 hours ago, Brad Kaenel said:

(HammondDave has already dinged the tonewheel organ patches and the cheesy-ish Leslie.  But we know that StudioLogic can, and has, done this well before (Numa Organ 1 & 2), so perhaps these will be improved with later firmware. They're not patches I would use on this keybed, anyway...)

 

I doubt you'll see significant organ updates, because they'd have to add a whole separate organ engine to be able to do what they do in the Numa Organs, it's an entirely different method of sound generation compared to sample playback. But who knows. Roland added an organ engine to the Fantom, Kurzweil added an FM synthesis engine to the Forte, so adding entirely new methods of sound generation in an update is not entirely unprecedented.

[Brad Kaenel]

1 hour ago, AnotherScott said:

Did you have a chance to play with the touch velocity depth and offset settings in the YC73

I confess, I did not spend any time adjusting those settings on the YC; likewise, I haven’t yet changed the default settings on the Numa X.  Both HammondDave and PianoManChuck point out that these made a dramatic difference for them on the Numa X, so I do need to experiment with those adjustments, for sure.

[Brad Kaenel]

1 hour ago, AnotherScott said:

From the way you describe this, it sounds similar to how the Hammond SK Pro is set up, where a single saved Combination (also recallable as a Favorite) contains four sounds that can each then be selected/de-selected with a single button-press, to be played either individually or in combination.

Yes, the Numa X has 8 dedicated buttons for calling up Favorites (actually the buttons have two modes; they’re also used to select Instrument banks: “Piano”, “EPiano”, etc.). So quickly moving from one scene of 4 tones to another scene of 4 is possible, like the SkPro, et.al.

[Brad Kaenel]

1 hour ago, AnotherScott said:

Something I haven't seen mentioned yet, what does the Numa X offer in terms of seamless transitions between sounds? Within your set of four sounds, can you switch from one to another while holding notes down, without cutting off the old sound when switching to the new? And/or can you switch from one set of four to another set of four without cutting off your first ones?

I tried it tonite, and “patch remain” or whatever we like to call it, is implemented quite well.  For example, I called up a scene with 4 tones: piano, strings, bass, flute.  With only piano active, I played a sustained chord, then switched off the piano and switched on the strings — piano kept sustaining, and I added some string notes. Then switched off strings and switched bass; now both piano and strings sustaining, and I played some bass notes. Finally let up the pedal and everything stopped. In other words, it did what I hoped it would do.

 

Next, I turned on all four sounds, played a sustained chord (4 sounds playing), then switched to a different scene — all 4 of the original sounds kept sustaining, and I could select and play the sounds in the new scene. Again, it worked the way you would hope.

 

Now there may be voice limitations I didn’t run into in these simple tests, but what I tried is way more than would happen in a normal situation. But I can confirm that, yes, patch remain or seamless voice transition is implemented, and works well.