Mono output from stereo keyboards

[CharlieLosGatos]

At a jam I am playing a friends Casio Px-s3000 but I think this question applies to many keyboards. This keyboard has outputs labeled L/mono and R. If I use the L/mono output will I be getting just one of two channels? Or does the keyboard realize only one jack is plugged in and create a L+R output. If I have to pick one channel is there any reason to pick L versus R?

On my Nord there is a mono button but I can't find anything like that in the endless menus of this keyboard. Going through the piano patches there is exactly one patch that says piano-mono but it's not a good as other patches.

 

Thanks, for any advice on this topic.

Charlie

[Reezekeys]

Your suspicions are correct - using the "L/mono" output by itself means both left & right are mixed in that one output, so, mono. The keyboard knows there's only one jack being plugged into!

[jazzpiano88]

Your suspicions are correct - using the "L/mono" output by itself means both left & right are mixed in that one output, so, mono. The keyboard knows there's only one jack being plugged into!

 

I've always been impressed by this ability.... Not only does the keyboard know that there is only one jack being plugged in, he knows what to do in both cases.

[El Lobo]

Is this really true -- that the keyboard knows and mixes L & R if only one output jack is plugged in? I've never heard that before. I have a PX-S3000 and a CT-S1. Do you think they both do this?

[jarrell]

Yes, it is really true, and most keyboards have had this feature for decades - for example, my old Roland JV-90, released in the early 90's, had this feature. If the two outputs are labeled L/mono and right (or L and R/mono), just use the mono jack.

[cassdad]

Yes, it's true (just simply the way the switches are wired). But, in my humble opinion, it sounds like crap (in mono). Stereo samples played in mono just simply do not sound good. I've had some folks with more expertise than I have tell me it's because of "comb filtering" - wherein when 2 channels are mixed together, some frequencies are exaggerated and others fight each other, even sometimes canceling some signals / frequencies out. Which is exactly what you do NOT want to do with a piano sound. Just my 2 cents.

[Baldwin Funster]

On my roland , aside from some razamataz in the reverb or stereo delay, the L and R outputs are different by method of The EQ tone. One side side sounds normal and the other side has been EQd and sounds kinda thin by it self. So you have 4 mono choices.

1. L/mono by itself but a dummy plug in the Right so it doesnt mix L and R.

2. R by it self with a dummy plug in the Left....

3. L by it self without a dummy plug.

4. L and R both into a Y cord.

 

They all sound different but I think the first method sounds the best. But I usually do #3 out of convenience.

[Mark Schmieder]

Just remember to verify which one is mono-summed. On some keyboards, it's the right channel when soloed. Usually it's labeled on the keyboard, but if not, read the manual.

[Docbop]

Amps been doing that L/Mono for ages, basically if it doesn't see a load on R output it sums the L+R together.

[Baldwin Funster]

1 is best?

 

On my roland , aside from some razamataz in the reverb or stereo delay, the L and R outputs are different by method of The EQ tone. One side side sounds normal and the other side has been EQd and sounds kinda thin by it self. So you have 4 mono choices.

1. L/mono by itself but a dummy plug in the Right so it doesnt mix L and R.

2. R by it self with a dummy plug in the Left....

3. L by it self without a dummy plug.

4. L and R both into a Y cord.

 

They all sound different but I think the first method sounds the best. But I usually do #3 out of convenience.

 

I think so. Try it sometime.

[AnotherScott]

If a piano sound doesn't sum well to mono (e.g. possible phasing issues), then half a stereo signal can sound better than a summed mono signal.

[jerrythek]

On my roland , aside from some razamataz in the reverb or stereo delay, the L and R outputs are different by method of The EQ tone. One side side sounds normal and the other side has been EQd and sounds kinda thin by it self. So you have 4 mono choices.

1. L/mono by itself but a dummy plug in the Right so it doesnt mix L and R.

2. R by it self with a dummy plug in the Left....

3. L by it self without a dummy plug.

4. L and R both into a Y cord.

 

They all sound different but I think the first method sounds the best. But I usually do #3 out of convenience.

 

Why do you use a dummy plug for the L side in your example #2?

 

Jerry

[CEB]

Depends on the board but I think often Kevin just recommended plugging the single mono out into the R Jack.

[jerrythek]

Depends on the board but I think often Kevin just recommended plugging the single mono out into the R Jack.

 

 

Yes, that"s what I do when I have to play in mono⦠especially the Korg Kronos does not sum to mono well. I don"t see the need for the dummy plug in the L, but maybe there"s a reason I don"t know aboutâ¦

[PianoMan51]

From an engineering perspective, just to clear up a few misconceptionsâ¦

 

The L output normally has two signal wires arriving to it. L and R. The R signal comes through a physical switch that is located in the R jack (output). When you put a physical plug into the R jack it breaks the switch contacts so the L jack no longer receives the R signal.

 

So yes, a dummy plug in the R out jack will stop the R signal from being present on the L jack.

 

A dummy plug in the L jack is useless because it doesn"t have a switch function built in.

 

There is no load sensing required.

 

This is a very old technology in analog mixing boards and analog synths for switching signal flow depending on whether patch cords are plugged in or not.

 

From a musical perspective most DPs are natively sampled in stereo. So in many cases a 'mono" patch may sound bad because they just summed L and R together. I play a CP4 on piano gigs. I use the best stereo patch because the mono patches don"t sound good to me. And I use only the R output. I choose the R because it gives me the most detailed sound of my right hand, which frankly is most important when playing with a bass. The left hand sound still sounds clear and present but is slightly lower in volume and has less low frequency energy, which again is great when playing with a bass.

[cphollis]

+1 if I'm doing mono, then I have to build programs for mono. Ditto with stereo. Over time, I can come up with programs that don't sound half-bad either way.

[Morrissey]

Just remember to verify which one is mono-summed. On some keyboards, it's the right channel when soloed. Usually it's labeled on the keyboard, but if not, read the manual.

 

 

Every keyboard I've ever had has the Left output as the mono-summed except my Nord Electro 2, which summed out the Right. Those wacky Swedes!

[confidence]

Your suspicions are correct - using the "L/mono" output by itself means both left & right are mixed in that one output, so, mono. The keyboard knows there's only one jack being plugged into!

 

I've always been impressed by this ability.... Not only does the keyboard know that there is only one jack being plugged in, he knows what to do in both cases.

 

Believing your keyboard is a sentient being may be an indication you've been doing this too long . . .

[BernMeister]

Depends on the board but I think often Kevin just recommended plugging the single mono out into the R Jack.

 

 

Yes, that"s what I do when I have to play in mono⦠especially the Korg Kronos does not sum to mono well. I don"t see the need for the dummy plug in the L, but maybe there"s a reason I don"t know aboutâ¦

The only reason I assume here is that some older models (maybe present) allowed mono sum from either the left or right output. Thus, if you wanted to force a right out only, you needed to plug in a dummy on the left.

[HSS]

Unfortunately my Numa Compact 2X doesn't sum to mono at the left (or right) output like most boards, it has no mono summing button like on my Nord 5D, and has no mono piano samples.

 

As a result, when I gig with bands in mono with the Numa Compact 2X, I just use its right output because its more focused on the upper octaves than the left output and cuts through the band mix a little better and clashes with the bass player a little less. Just using its right output also reduces possible phasing problems that sometimes happen when stereo samples are summed.

 

Having said this, to my ear, the sound from the Numa Compact 2X's right output by itself is a little 'thinner' than summing to mono or playing full stereo.

 

FWIW... Here's a very good summary of the mono vs. stereo issue written by highly esteemed KC forumite Kanker (aka Kevin Anker) who was mentioned earlier in this thread:

https://www.musicradar.com/how-to/how-to-solve-stereo-stage-piano-problems?fbclid=IwAR0MRH6b_mY8lEjb9UqHRZev1LNqVK55dPCSKyfiZesqARUGnAHbSl5eh1k

[Docbop]

The issue with mono sound of stereo being summed together to a mono output all depends on the stereo source. The result depends on how much phase cancellation happens between the left and right mixed together. Like when a stereo system has a mono switch some stereo songs still sound okay in mono and other get scooped.

[HSS]

The issue with mono sound of stereo being summed together to a mono output all depends on the stereo source. The result depends on how much phase cancellation happens between the left and right mixed together. Like when a stereo system has a mono switch some stereo songs still sound okay in mono and other get scooped.

True. For example when I sum the Grand Lady D sample to mono on my Nord, IMO it sounds like azzz compared to the newer White Grand sample which sounds much better summed to mono. It may have something to do with the width / separation of the stereo field the sample was recorded with and the resultant phase issues when summed to mono.

[Reezekeys]

I knew this particular horse was gonna be trotted out again after I read the OP -- which is why I deliberately avoided the topic in my initial answer above! Anyway... (!)

 

This seems to be a sore spot with some but I have to stand by my opinion that we as musicians, as the people that researched, spent (sometimes big) money on gear, debate sound and features ad infinitum here, shlep and set up on gigs - we deserve to hear our stuff in the best possible light. Yes, it might be hard to get a really great stereo sound at a gig that works for the player, stage, and audience - and there might be some compromises that have to be made. But imo - hearing my nice multi-gigabyte samples with release sounds, pedal noise, sustain resonance, etc. in mono is more of a compromise I'd want to make unless absolutely necessary. I know others feel differently - but in my humble (or maybe not-so-humble) opinion, I've done enough gigs with a stereo setup in the last twenty two years (OUCH!) to know when things are working. (I looked up when I went stereo - it was 1999 with two Mackie SRM450s - I shlepped these â 102 lbs in total, or 46 kg â to every gig I did, for years). For me, it goes without saying that stereo works 100% of the time, and in that sense I suppose I'm showing my lack of selflessness when it comes to everybody else (hey that's just the kind of guy I am!). However, the times I've been out in the audience listening to my rig being played by someone else have shown me that, by judicious placement (angling) of my speakers, things can very often sound perfectly fine for a majority of the audience too. Certainly as good as a mono sample would. Of course you don't get a big L-R "spread" when you're listening from farther away - but that's not the point, imo; it just has to sound good.

 

I'm certainly not against having a good mono piano when circumstances make it a viable alternative. There must be a reason more piano samples aren't recorded using M-S or X/Y techniques - those are supposed to yield the least amount of phase issues when collapsed to mono. I think M-S stereo has no phase issues in mono at all, if implemented correctly. Maybe there are plenty of sampled pianos out there that use these techniques and I just never heard them? Judging from what I've read on this forum however, there don't seem to be too many. What about a modeled piano like Pianoteq? I'm assuming it has a good mono piano â no pesky interfering sound waves to deal with!

[Mighty Motif Max]

If a piano sound doesn't sum well to mono (e.g. possible phasing issues), then half a stereo signal can sound better than a summed mono signal.

Depends on the board but I think often Kevin just recommended plugging the single mono out into the R Jack.

 

 

Yes, that"s what I do when I have to play in mono⦠especially the Korg Kronos does not sum to mono well. I don"t see the need for the dummy plug in the L, but maybe there"s a reason I don"t know aboutâ¦

 

Yep, R jack if I'm playing in mono with Yamaha or Korg boards. Roland I prefer the L/Mono jack, and Kurzweil I usually stay with the L/Mono jack as well.

[vonnor]

I need a keyboard with the jack that knows I suck and automatically makes me sound good.

 

 

~ vonnor

[Baldwin Funster]

I had mono once. I missed school for a week.

[ElmerJFudd]

If taking the Right - half the stereo signal, there is a tendency for the treble to be a little louder than the bass due the stereo imagery created by the sampling process and whatever tweaking they"ve done in the programming of the patch. In band context this doesn"t matter much, assuming you"re playing with a bass player. Solo, you can compensate with some eq"ing on the monitor/amp, or on the keyboard itself.

[Tom Williams]

I need a keyboard with the jack that knows I suck and automatically makes me sound good.

There's an easy DIY hack for that:

• Open the bottom of the instrument to gain access to the jack.
  
• With diagonal pliers, clip the lead going to the center conductor (which would normally go to the pin).
  
• Come to think of it, clip the other leads going to the jack as well.
  
• Problem solved.
  

 

When I did that, it made me sound much better -- no one heard any of my mistakes.

[CharlieLosGatos]

Thanks for all the great information about the L/Mono output. It brings me to my next question. My own keyboard in a Nord Piano 4. Based on all the posts assume I can also just run one output and it will provide L+R. But then what does the "mono" button do?

[ElmerJFudd]

Nord tries to solve the problem where you may get phasing issues using just the L or R jacks. I"ve no idea what they are doing. Perhaps attenuation, boosting and/or compressing to balance out the volume coming from the low, mid, high areas of the piano when in mono. Maybe someone knows more about Nord"s mono switch and can share.