Replacements When You Leave a Band

[The Real MC]

The last few bands I had left, my replacement SUCKED.

 

I'm not bragging. I'm lamenting the dearth of competent keyboard players in my area (Ithaca, Elmira, Corning (NY), Tioga/Mansfield/Williamsport PA).

 

Left the southern rock band back in 2016 - guitar hero picked the songs he wanted to play, I was playing less keyboard and too much guitar. They went a year without a keyboard player then recruited a local player because BL really missed that element. When they play the Skynyrd songs, she doesn't play ANY of the Billy Powell solos/licks she plays her own stuff. And her parts don't fit. She has to play Hammond but she is not a Hammond player, she's trying to play it like a piano. I have to leave the venue, it sounds so awful. I visited their shows over the last few years and she still sucks.

 

Left a classic rock band when I objected to guitar zero - the drummer's nephew - playing at full bore full volume all the time leaving zero space for my keyboards and the singer. His gain was so high that he couldn't make space or his guitar would squeal. Guy has never played in a band at all. A guitar hero who spent his development jamming in his bedroom with zero ensemble experience is what I call a guitar zero. I demanded that the situation be resolved or I was leaving. Singer and soundman followed me out the door. That was the end of that band, no one wanted to sing or play keyboards with guitar zero.

 

Relocating to a new job shortly, and had to leave a great band. I was asked to come to practices to help my replacement get in shape. He is a guitar player who can barely play keyboards. He brings other things to the table, but on keyboards he does not play well and uses presets with zero sound design effort. I used to play Van Halen "I'll Wait" with the band; they asked him to play the song, and it was way beyond his skill level. I even gave him my charts so he could learn it (he can barely read), but after a month he made zero progress learning the song. Has to play Hammond in several songs, and he has zero concept of Hammond technique. I predict they're going to replace a lot of songs I played because he is so inept.

 

There's some competent players around here, but they have either quit the gigging life out of frustration or have retired.

 

Not that keyboard players are frowned on, quite the opposite. There's a hunger for competent players. On two occasions we had a drummer leave, and we had some substitutes fill in. The replacements on both occasions were subs who wanted to join the band on the strength of my playing, they always wanted to work with a competent keyboard player.

[PianoMan51]

We"re fighting against a concept of 'rock band" where a world class keyboard player provides signature licks at the start or finish of a song and then gets to the back of the bus. Oh, and once a set or maybe once a night gets an extended solo so he stays with the band. Am I wrong?

 

So NOW we"re ready to talk about how much does the gig pay?

[wineandkeyz]

Years ago I had to leave a band because my family was moving out of state. I gave them months of notice, so they had time to find a replacement. They started rehearsing with new guy and had him come to our shows to watch. After one gig, he observed, "Gee, you play a lot with your left hand."

 

 

Needless to say, he didn't last long.

[eric]

I haven't been in the situation in a long time to leave a band and have a replacement, though I will echo the dearth of competent keyboard players. I'm not anywhere near as talented as lots of you on this forum, yet I have decades of stage experience, I have good gear, I can play most anything needed, and I'm not a total jerk (maybe just a bit sarcastic or twisted humor at times).

 

I was recently bantering with another local keyboard player and we surmised that there simply are not many keyboard players around these days. We might know of a person that was trained and can read music. But then you need to have gear and the ability to play with a group. Stage presence is another factor. Personality and ability to hang is also important. Finding a competent player that can check even a few of these boxes is pretty rare in our area.

[Adan]

It is, in part, a manifestation of cosmic justice. All through school the attention was on guitar players, singers, and drummers. Down that road lay glory and riches. As a broad generalization, the 14 year old plinking on the piano in the band room at lunch hour is driven by different desires The lack of early incentives to play keys has a lot to do with the skewed percentages of adult keyboard players. I don't think any of us had the prescience to understand how this would be to our advantage later in life. For most of us, delayed popularity is just a happy accident.

[The Real MC]

We"re fighting against a concept of 'rock band" where a world class keyboard player provides signature licks at the start or finish of a song and then gets to the back of the bus. Oh, and once a set or maybe once a night gets an extended solo so he stays with the band. Am I wrong?

 

You are not wrong.

 

So NOW we"re ready to talk about how much does the gig pay?

 

I'm at the point where no amount of money will interest me in playing with a 'rock band'. Yawn...

[eric]

It is, in part, a manifestation of cosmic justice. All through school the attention was on guitar players, singers, and drummers. Down that road lay glory and riches. As a broad generalization, the 14 year old plinking on the piano in the band room at lunch hour is driven by different desires The lack of early incentives to play keys has a lot to do with the skewed percentages of adult keyboard players. I don't think any of us had the prescience to understand how this would play out later in life.

 

I somehow grasped this as a young piano player around age 14 in the early '80s, when I was given the opportunity to be the "keyboard player" for the HS musicals, using a Rhodes and synth at my high school. Then I met all the guitar players, drummers, etc. and was in demand as one of very few keyboard players that was branching out beyond piano. Here I am 35+ years later, still enjoying myself playing live gigs.

 

Every time I encounter a younger keyboard player that is not sure about taking lessons etc., I tell them this story and I can only hope it serves as some form of motivation.

[Tom Williams]

We"re fighting against a concept of 'rock band" where a world class keyboard player provides signature licks at the start or finish of a song and then gets to the back of the bus. Oh, and once a set or maybe once a night gets an extended solo so he stays with the band. Am I wrong?

You're spot on. I'm fortunate -- despite my not being world-class I share solos with the guitarist around 50/50. Mine are mostly an even split of piano, clonewheel, and key-based electric guitar. I rarely play the same solo twice.

[Morrissey]

We"re fighting against a concept of 'rock band" where a world class keyboard player provides signature licks at the start or finish of a song and then gets to the back of the bus. Oh, and once a set or maybe once a night gets an extended solo so he stays with the band. Am I wrong?

You're spot on. I'm fortunate -- despite my not being world-class I share solos with the guitarist around 50/50. Mine are mostly an even split of piano, clonewheel, and key-based electric guitar. I rarely play the same solo twice.

 

My litmus test to avoid this problem is to see if a potential band's song list has any songs in Bb. If there are none (i.e., all songs in guitar keys like A and E), then it is a "rock band" providing the keys experience described above. But if there is at least one song in Bb, even if it appears to be a rock band on the surface, I've found a much pleasurable experience along the lines of Tom's situation.

[Moonglow]

Count me in as among the fortunate, as well. My dad played tenor sax in a wedding/dance band and started me on piano lessons when I was in first grade. I stuck with them for the long haul, albeit with a couple of gaps to play baseball. Around my Freshman year in high school, I was wooed by the prospect of playing drums in a rock band for the fame, glory, chicks, etc. When I mentioned this to may dad, he very astutely advised that drummers (and guitar players) were a "dime a dozen" and that I would always be in demand playing keyboards. Fortunately, I somehow felt his conviction, along with the sobering realization finally sinking in that I would actually have to start over an a new instrument.

 

Back OT, I've only been in four bands, three of which I'm still in (one of them is my long-time band of over 40 years). I quit the other band, and quite frankly never felt the need to keep tabs on what they were doing, although someone did tell me they were using backing track for keyboard parts.

[CowboyNQ]

When it comes to 'rock bands' there"s probably only half a dozen to 10 regularly gigging keys players where I live - pop. 1.2mil or thereabouts. Depends a bit on the definition of 'regularly gigging' of course.

 

Obviously there"s a similar supply/demand skew here, but my experience of the drivers of this is slightly different.

 

I know quite a few highly competent keys players (way better than me) who don"t get invited into projects due to severe shortcomings in the non-musical aspects of band life.

[nursers]

There is definitely a shortage overall - I fall more in the category of less competent and am never short of work when I want it. Same as Paul - there'd be lucky to be 8-10 players in my city doing rock gigs

[niacin]

And her parts don't fit. She has to play Hammond but she is not a Hammond player, she's trying to play it like a piano. I have to leave the venue, it sounds so awful. I visited their shows over last few years and she still sucks ... Has to play Hammond in several songs, and he has zero concept of Hammond technique. I predict they're going to replace a lot of songs I played because he is so inept.

 

There are a dozen keyboard players in the city I live in who I can confidently recommend for fill-in gigs and such. But they're really piano players, less than half of them have any interest in tweaking or programming sounds, and while there are a few who carry a clonewheel as a top board in a 2-keyboard rig, only one of them knows his way around a Hammond.

 

I did a fill-in gig for a Whitesnake tribute that was just starting up, I couldn't commit to regular rehearsals so I just did the first gig, gave them all my charts/sketches/notes and left them to get on with it. Their replacement didn't cut it and there were a few other niggling issues so the band folded.

 

However, in the same vein, I had a gig last night and our guitarist landed in hospital late in the afternoon. We play funk and soul, harmonically really simple, more than a few 2 chord tunes, but it's not blues and it's certainly not rock, you gotta have a light hand and great sense of rhythm, and there's only one other guy in town who I'd have trusted to replace him and he wasn't available so we just ran as a trio.

[Al Quinn]

Keyboard players (and musicians in general) are abundant on Long Island. Folks who have replaced me in bands have always been good players. In large part this is because there are so many people on the island (i.e., around 7.5 million). Folks who don't have their act at least somewhat together will likely have trouble finding work.

[CEB]

How much does the gig pay?

[cphollis]

Same general situation in my local market. Yes, there are way too many guitar-centric rock bands. Most are looking for keys players to "fill in" here and there. If you are one of the few competent keyboard players, you quickly learn that there's nothing in it for you, except ringing ears.

 

I've left three bands in the last few years. The last one was a few months back, familiar guitar-centric story. Each time, they thought they'd find a suitable replacement but didn't. Each time, people lose interest afterwards and everyone goes their own way.

 

It's not that the material was that difficult, etc. -- but anyone who could do it well didn't want to do it. As I should have realized at the time.

 

I do have a nice list of ex-bandmates who'd be interested in whatever I'm working on, though. My next project is based around a pair of strong vocalists, with the band supporting vs. leading. We may or may not have an electric guitar in the lineup, depending. Not surprisingly, the other musos reacted positively to the prospect of a band without loud electric guitars.

 

Given that we play mostly to 55+ retiree types, I'm betting the audience might feel the same way.

[Marzzz]

Keyboard players (and musicians in general) are abundant on Long Island. Folks who have replaced me in bands have always been good players. In large part this is because there are so many people on the island (i.e., around 7.5 million). Folks who don't have their act at least somewhat together will likely have trouble finding work.

I grew up not far from you; it would almost annoy me when someone heard I was from LI and ask 'do you know so-and-so?', not realizing that the place was nearly 120 miles long and had millions of people. The fact that I likely did know this person didn"t make it any betterâ¦! Anyway, yes there were a lot of good keyboardists; it seemed like each town back in the 70"s had a kid with a Minimoogâ¦

[KuruPrionz]

Same general situation in my local market. Yes, there are way too many guitar-centric rock bands. Most are looking for keys players to "fill in" here and there. If you are one of the few competent keyboard players, you quickly learn that there's nothing in it for you, except ringing ears.

 

I've left three bands in the last few years. The last one was a few months back, familiar guitar-centric story. Each time, they thought they'd find a suitable replacement but didn't. Each time, people lose interest afterwards and everyone goes their own way.

 

It's not that the material was that difficult, etc. -- but anyone who could do it well didn't want to do it. As I should have realized at the time.

 

I do have a nice list of ex-bandmates who'd be interested in whatever I'm working on, though. My next project is based around a pair of strong vocalists, with the band supporting vs. leading. We may or may not have an electric guitar in the lineup, depending. Not surprisingly, the other musos reacted positively to the prospect of a band without loud electric guitars.

 

Given that we play mostly to 55+ retiree types, I'm betting the audience might feel the same way.

 

 

It's that "loud electric guitars" thing. I play guitar, have been gigging for 45 years or more. And I used to be a loud electric guitarist. Then I became a songwriter and a bit of a singer. I don't like drowning my songs out with volume or a massive uncontrollable roar exploding off the stage. It doesn't sound good to me at all.

 

I will point out that drummers are often the core reason that stuff gets turned up too loud. Currently I'm in a band where the drummer and bassist are content to lock grooves and keep the volume down. Our singer/acoustic guitarist likes his stuff blasting in the monitors so I don't use one any more. I can hear myself fine from the monitor across the stage.

 

Most recent gigs I was playing a Boss Katana combo set to 1/2 watt, that's .5 of a watt. It's loud enough on stage, open back combo so the drummer and bassist can hear it too.

 

Live recordings made on a Tascam DR-40 show that we have a good mix coming out of the mains.

 

The guitarists you want are probably out there but they've found their happy place and aren't going anywhere. If you are gigging and they are gigging, you might never know about them. I know the last thing I want to do these days is go out to the clubs and check out other bands - Gah!!!

[Al Quinn]

Keyboard players (and musicians in general) are abundant on Long Island. Folks who have replaced me in bands have always been good players. In large part this is because there are so many people on the island (i.e., around 7.5 million). Folks who don't have their act at least somewhat together will likely have trouble finding work.

I grew up not far from you; it would almost annoy me when someone heard I was from LI and ask 'do you know so-and-so?', not realizing that the place was nearly 120 miles long and had millions of people. The fact that I likely did know this person didn"t make it any betterâ¦! Anyway, yes there were a lot of good keyboardists; it seemed like each town back in the 70"s had a kid with a Minimoogâ¦

Yeah I was one of those kids! I grew up in Massapequa and bought a Mini Moog in the late 70"s that I gigged with.