Keyboard stand innovations?

[EscapeRocks]

@EscapeRocks:

 

I really love your projects and when compared to some of the K&M options it's not really any more expensive.

 

One thing I really worry about is setup/teardown time and the dimensions of the stand once folded up.

 

And then of course it's the huge leap into the unknown that tends to hold me back! The stock keyboard kits they have are not what I want and I really don't understand what all the pieces do so I have no real idea how to piece my own contraption together.

 

 

I am always available to help you design one and figure what parts you need, having been down the road myself.

[EscapeRocks]

 

I just took the plunge and went Gibraltar, inspired by David's and others who have gone down the path of shiny chrome drum hardware.

 

TL;DR: I'm really pleased with it, I consider it good value for what I spent (which was not insignificant). It sets up and tears down quickly, it REALLY looks great on stage, and having now gigged with it several times, I'm very pleased and would not think twice about it.

 

Some anecdotal findings:

 

- Setup/teardown time is very quick AS LONG AS YOU USE THEIR MEMORY LOCKS.

 

- Admittedly, initial setup was finicky, and I made a few errors with positioning and orientation of the clamps, memory locks, leveling, etc. It took me a couple of days to get it all correct, and then I spent some time practicing how to take it down / set it up quickly. But I'm anal that way, I practice setup and teardown until it's rote and have done that for years.

 

- The video below was REALLY helpful because I wasn't at all experienced with this stuff, and I'm not that handy a guy.

 

- I was planning to paint it red like David has done, but my wife suggested leaving it chrome - she like that look better, and so far I'm really happy. If I change my mind, I've still got the can of paint.

 

- You should make sure you have buy a magnetic level as shown in the video - they're cheap and I think really necessary to get things correct.

 

- Also, I can vouch for the fact that most KB players probably don't own a single drum key, and the drum department at most Guitar Centers are completely unstaffed these days LOL

 

- Finally, the whole thing breaks down to fit into a standard speaker stand bag. I can carry it with one arm, and while the bag is longer than my bagged Baby Spider Pro, it's still an easy pack.

 

 

 

Here's the Gibraltar video of the stand I built:

 

 

 

Hey Tim. Excellent. I also concur with everything you say above. Memory locks, drum keys, magnetic level. The key to a good drum rack keys stand is taking time with initial setup. After that, it's a breeze.

The addition of the wheels I put on mine allow me to setup in an open area on stage, spin it around to attach cables, and then move it into position, then lock the wheels.

 

Same with after gig tear down. I just roll out of everyone's way, and then can relax with the tear down. This has also come in very handy with the quick change festival gigs. I can setup my rig back/side stage, and just roll into position and I'm ready.

[eric]

I have been gigging with a single keyboard now for quite a bit, which is a custom rolling and tilting stand that I built myself with the help of some talented friends (a welder and vonnor from this forum who did all my multi-pin snakes). When I was gigging with two keyboards, it was Invisible stands all the way. I've never found a solution that gets the keyboards close together in a durable, sturdy, and portable form factor. Here are a couple of pictures from 10+ years ago, the last time I was still gigging regularly with two keyboards. I still have multiple Invisible stands and keyboards seen in these pics.

 

 

 

Here are some pictures of my current rolling and tilting rig, a design I've been working on iteratively for 25+ years.

 

 

 

To see this in action on stage, here's a video from a few years ago that shows me rolling around a bit.

 

[EscapeRocks]

Always like your setups, Eric!

[eric]

Always like your setups, Eric!

 

Thanks! Likewise for your rigs, David! I believe you were the one that turned me onto Redco snakes all those years ago. It's fun having unique keyboard stands!

[MotiDave]

Too bad you don't find Column stands aesthetically pleasing, I love my K&M spidey, it's super easy to transport and setup. The only downside is it's not great for sitting down, as it puts a bar in my face, but I almost never play sitting.

 

I like the small footprint of the Apex on stage and extreme ease of transport, setup and break down. but i always perform standing too. when at home practicing i sit, and i never use it - as you note, they are not for sitting play. I use an old x-stand that drops to a sitting level nicely, as its a quick trigger set up and down then back in the closet when not used.

[vonnor]

For me, a stand has to be rock solid, no sway during play, either side-to-side or front-to-back. My solution is USS (Ultimate Support) tubes and "T" connectors I have found over the years. I can cut the tubes to exact lengths needed and assemble the whole thing. Holds like 500lbs and doesn't move at all. Admittedly the huge disadvantage is you can't break it down easily, but it fits in my SUV easily enough and weighs about 6lbs total.

 

~ vonnor

 

Love it... I love the old USS tubes.

 

Also, for those playing the home game, it is not the same as the thin walled PVC.....

Thanks sir. I meant to add this probably falls into the same stand category as your Gibraltar "tinker-toys" custom. Yours however, likely could hold half a ton.

[re Pete]

Anyone using one of these? Thoughts? I read a review concerning some play in the 2nd tier.

For organ playing I have a KM 18950 with 2nd tiers. It's solid like a tank at 29 lbs with the tiers. The legs don't fold flat for transport though and for that reason will just keep in studio.

 

This still is 25 lbs but legs seem to fold better. I don't see many tabletops with 2nd tiers. Too high for me for piano on 1st tier at 29 inches though but ok for organ with pedals.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/143993228803?chn=ps&norover=1&mkevt=1&mkrid=711-117182-37290-0&mkcid=2&itemid=143993228803&targetid=1263433205654&device=c&mktype=pla&googleloc=9007357&poi=&campaignid=11614424777&mkgroupid=121942480053&rlsatarget=pla-1263433205654&abcId=9300456&merchantid=8368054

[AUSSIEKEYS]

 

This still is 25 lbs but legs seem to fold better. I don't see many tabletops with 2nd tiers. Too high for me for piano on 1st tier at 29 inches though but ok for organ with pedals.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/143993228803?chn=ps&norover=1&mkevt=1&mkrid=711-117182-37290-0&mkcid=2&itemid=143993228803&targetid=1263433205654&device=c&mktype=pla&googleloc=9007357&poi=&campaignid=11614424777&mkgroupid=121942480053&rlsatarget=pla-1263433205654&abcId=9300456&merchantid=8368054

 

Hi Pete I have one of these also (Not sure which brand but same style with second tier) and it's a nice table stand but I haven't used it yet for keys it's supporting a large mixer. I tried the heavy Kawai MP9500 and it was solid. It is very heavy a d does fold down but is bulky.

 

There are many copies . I bought mine from a music shop and it wasnt expensive so I imagine one of the many brands but it was impressive. I would have happily used it for a heavy keyboard but personally would not lug it to a gig but keep in mind I have health probs. Another person may think it acceptable.

 

Due to the fact this suited the mixer size wise than on the T stand I would happily use either on any heavy keyboard.

 

But I'd say check the stand first as there are so many copies that some maybe inferior.

[miden]

 

Hey Tim. Excellent. I also concur with everything you say above. Memory locks, drum keys, magnetic level. The key to a good drum rack keys stand is taking time with initial setup. After that, it's a breeze.

The addition of the wheels I put on mine allow me to setup in an open area on stage, spin it around to attach cables, and then move it into position, then lock the wheels.

 

Same with after gig tear down. I just roll out of everyone's way, and then can relax with the tear down. This has also come in very handy with the quick change festival gigs. I can setup my rig back/side stage, and just roll into position and I'm ready.

 

David one thing I LOVE about your rig is the aesthetic - it just looks so, mmmm mmmh!

 

With the tear down and build, is it really quick as you guys suggest? No it's "quick" coz you're used to it or anything? Not a doubting sort of question just asking - I think I would really like to copy it and build one for myself here. I especially like the way you have incorporated the extra small shelves for laptops, ipads et al - I am pretty sure most of the Gibraltar gear can be bought down here.

 

So yeah, if you can, some more specifics on those times would be good. I cam then compare with my Z stand setup and go form there. Not a competition between the two more so I get a feel for what I'm looking at. Another huge advantage of yours is it can all be bagged really easily, something that cannot be done with the Z's unless it is stripped down totally, and I daresay then the Z's would be double the time.

[nursers]

 

David one thing I LOVE about your rig is the aesthetic - it just looks so, mmmm mmmh!

 

With the tear down and build, is it really quick as you guys suggest? No it's "quick" coz you're used to it or anything? Not a doubting sort of question just asking - I think I would really like to copy it and build one for myself here. I especially like the way you have incorporated the extra small shelves for laptops, ipads et al - I am pretty sure most of the Gibraltar gear can be bought down here.

 

So yeah, if you can, some more specifics on those times would be good. I cam then compare with my Z stand setup and go form there. Not a competition between the two more so I get a feel for what I'm looking at. Another huge advantage of yours is it can all be bagged really easily, something that cannot be done with the Z's unless it is stripped down totally, and I daresay then the Z's would be double the time.

 

Im in the same boat, keen to hear I spent a couple of hours last night looking at the Gibraltar stuff and although it appears you can't buy the stands as a package here (they are available in the US) I know we could cobble together the stuff to do one. From the videos I watched though I remain super skeptical on the setup time - to be fair though I'm comparing to a Spider Pro which is super quick.

[Stokely]

Different strokes I guess. For me the spider pro is just about as close to perfect as I've found in a stand. The only negatives are that it's heavy, and now seems to be very expensive (I paid 250 for the silver one). It's the only piece of gear I've ever gotten compliments on by anyone, including the other band members, in the 8 years I've been in my current band (not that I care, it's just funny that people ignore the expensive and cool-looking keyboards )

 

I did beef up the mic attachment though with a big nut and washer under the top plate, and a larger mic screw (so no adapter to size it up). I always forget mic stands so having the attachment on my stand is nice (to be fair, I had one for my Onstage Z too.)

 

I hated the Deltex column stand though. Unstable, the legs were in the way of my feet and pedals and no place for a microphone boom.

 

My criteria for a stand, besides it being stable enough for my keyboards (which goes without saying!)...I'm 6'3" so this can be an issue with some stands at standing height:

 

- easy and fast to set up and take down

- easy to transport on a cart and in my car, and when walking through a crowded restaurant/bar (spider pro isn't easy to stack on a cart being cylindrical, one point against it, but it does go in a bag and wins in the other areas)

- room underneath for pedals/mixers etc

- easy and fast to change from sitting to standing height

- able to be moved around a bit with keyboards on it (our stages are sometimes small and at times we have to tetris ourselves in there...thankfully I have in-ears!)

- no huge footprint

 

bonus:

- mic boom adapter

- cable management

- light weight

- self-contained, no extra bits

 

I don't care what my stand looks like in the slightest, any and all pro stands I've seen are ok by me in that regard.

 

I've used x stands, standtastic, onstage 2-tier Z, and way back when the Deltex and a big A-frame and probably some others I can't recall. All of these had serious flaws in one or more areas. Again different strokes and requirements we all have!

 

I got really interested in the Stay stands, as they seem to check all the same boxes as the Spider pro and have more flexibility with adding/removing arms and also you can choose the arm angle for every tier. My buddy has one, they are very light and seem sturdy. The legs and arms do detach though. Gigs are a bit light this year though so I'm not going to buy something new just to save a bit of weight. I've also liked what I've seen and read about one of the K&M stacker-type stands, the one that can basically collapse flat.

[timwat]

Here's a short video I just recorded to answer the question: "How long does it really take to set up a Gibraltar keyboard stand?"

 

Recorded in my garage:

 

[video:youtube]

[miden]

Here's a short video I just recorded to answer the question: "How long does it really take to set up a Gibraltar keyboard stand?"

 

Recorded in my garage:

 

excellent, thanks Tim

 

EDIT: I guess once you get used to the memory locks and tightening the clamps it would get a bit quicker, but on the flipside, I'd reckon it would take half the time to dismantle, and speaking personally, I'm ok with setup times as a rule, but tear-down I like to be as quick as poss....PLUS all in a single bag..

 

Love that curved bar out front! Question, is there a reason the supports are angled in like that?

 

Again, many thanks for putting that together!

 

Dennis

[timwat]

 

EDIT: I guess once you get used to the memory locks and tightening the clamps it would get a bit quicker, but on the flipside, I'd reckon it would take half the time to dismantle, and speaking personally, I'm ok with setup times as a rule, but tear-down I like to be as quick as poss....PLUS all in a single bag..

 

Love that curved bar out front! Question, is there a reason the supports are angled in like that?

 

Again, many thanks for putting that together!

 

Dennis

 

Dennis -

 

So unlike David (EscapeRocks), I'm not very mechanically handy. The real reason for the curved bar out front is... that's how the video from "Brent's Hang" (the Gibraltar marketing guy on YouTube) had designed it, and I just copied it exactly because I didn't want to take a chance on designing my first one myself from scratch. And, truth be told, I think the curved bar looks really cool too. I'm guessing that's the reason the bottom tier supports angle in like that, I can't think of another reason.

 

And yes, dismantling is even quicker than assembly (which is less than 4 minutes), and everything goes into the one bag and bob's your uncle.

 

Of course, the one downside of all this Gibraltar tinkertoy stuff is the initial cost. But having finally pulled the trigger, quite frankly I feel like I should have done this years ago. I feel sort of similar to all the years I gigged with Roland KC muppet hide amps until I took the plunge into powered PA speakers.

 

Tim

[MathOfInsects]

In my never-ending quest for the perfect stand, I've gone through a couple of drum racks on the way. In a way drum racks make ideal keyboard stands. They are light, get more stable the more weight they have on them, are very easily and quickly adjustable (since they are made for drummers to adjust on the fly) and extremely reliable. And they look cool. My last one was a Pearl drum rack. I used to save it for "special" gigs since it looked so nice on stage.

 

That last sentence is the key, though: I didn't use it all the time. It was just too contrived to transport. It broke down and set up quickly, but have you ever seen a drummer wheel in hardware? That's what it used to take to bring it anywhere. And if you don't break it all the way down, it takes up half the cargo space in the car because of all the protruding elements.

 

Tim, your set-up looks fantastic, and if it works for you, it sounds like you've found the perfect solution. For me, as soon as I saw that hardware bag, I got PTSD. Luckily, Leo showed up and relieved the stress. And then once I saw you set up the feet and have to go back into the bag for other parts to insert into them (a familiar pattern from my Pearl rack), that was it for me. My "perfect" stand has to set up nigh on instantly. I think of it as I think of, say, the luggage rack in a hotel room. If I have to build it before I can use it, I'm not going to use it. When I set up, the stand can't add more set-up. It has to be the thing I set up on.

 

This is all my own OCD quest for the ideal stand. Your Gibaltar looks fantastic, and I'm glad that it's ticking all the right boxes for you.

[nursers]

Tim that video is excellent, thanks. I love how super solid it is, but in a similar boat to MOI

[AUSSIEKEYS]

Thanks tim that was an honest video unlike many videos on the tube. It does show it could be fiddly until you get it down pat. No doubt once mastered it would be easier/quicker.

 

Id put this on the longer end of assembly but for a night of gigging that small time really doesn't matter. As a young muso that would have not phased me. As an "old fart" that lets all the air out of my fart and smells of to much effort and too much weight to lug.

 

None the less lovely hardware and thoughtful Meccano style building process. The mad scientist version of keyboard stands. ..........it lives....

[Donhughesmusic]

Dammit why do all those Gibraltar parts have to be so damn expensive?

 

That being said, it is definitely my next stand. Either that or get a lighting truss and try to make a poor man's Jordan Rudess stand. Only problem with that is I measure the height of my current stand at about 30 inches, and I can't find truss' at that height.

 

I don't mind a few minutes to set up my stand, so the longer Gibraltar stand setup time wouldn't be a big deal to me.

 

Someone once gave me the idea instead of painting the Gibraltar pipes to wrap them the way they do cars. Not sure if that would change the fit in the clamps, but I bet you could get some interesting looking stands.