Modular...for Traditional Musicians

[GovernorSilver]

 

Pretty much what I suspected. Not only does it take the right sequencers; it's a lot of work to craft those sequences with transitions found in conventional music. At which point you may be better off playing those notes. Sequencers or arpeggiators that you can transpose on the fly are fun. But when you're limited to certain modalities...well I really don't want the sequencer dictating what the underlying music has to be.

 

Face it Jerry, I'm hopeless.

 

What about the 256-step sequencer on your Matriarch? Did you cover the sequencer buttons with duct tape?

 

I'm nowhere near as skilled as Lisa Bella Donna, but I feel inspired whenever I watch her combine sequencers and live key playing on her Moog gear in creative ways.

 

I know what you mean about how the sequencer design can influence the music that comes out. OTOH, I'm a believer in creativity through limitation. I was never productive with "infinite canvas" tools like Ableton Live Suite.

 

I have no interest in using a sequencer to emulate what a real drummer, bass player, etc. would play. At least not in such a literal-minded fashion.

[GovernorSilver]

A lot of the modular sequencers have 8, or 16, or 32 steps, so yeah, the limitations of the machine definitely dictate the music to at least some extent. I know some sequencers can be transposed, and some people use multiple sequencers for different sections, so those two things can provide some more harmonic options.

 

The NerdSeq can do 64 steps per pattern and supports pattern chaining, I believe.

 

Pyramid makes a couple of capable sequencers - Hermod (Eurorack module) and Pyramid (standalone). Pyramid can do up to 384 bars a track.

 

Also, Polyend Tracker which can do 128 step sequence patterns. One song can hold up to 256 patterns.

[Markyboard]

My comments are from a listening perspective. Aside from the occasional 'let"s see how this works, or doesn"t' I"m not much on sequencers. I much prefer establishing rhythmic elements using other time-centric modules like Maths, LFOs modulating LFOs and as mentioned randomizers.

 

As the title implies modular for me is a toolbox to enhance playing other synths.

[GRollins]

I see a butt-load of things in here I'd like to respond to, but the background noise/commotion level here is preventing me from keeping focus long enough to organize my thoughts properly. I'm going to try to do this on the installment plan.

 

--I got started with Euro for two reasons. One being because it gives me total flexibility; the difference (for those who know computer programming) between programming in Assembly/Assembler vs. a higher level language. Power incarnate, but you've got to be willing to go into detail to get what you want.

--The other reason was that I wanted to plug an LFO signal into a point on my Voyager where there was no there, there. With modular stuff (whether Euro, Moog, or otherwise), you've got the ability to patch anything into anything. Anywhere. Anytime. You're the architect--build it the way you want it.

--Speaking only for myself, I have no use for bleeps and bloops. I treat Euro as though it's another Moog (I've got four Moog products). Sure it needs tuning. What Moog doesn't? (Okay, okay, my Little Phatty has an autotune function that actually works pretty well--not perfect, but close.)

--I have a Korg tuner in the rack. I use it. No hu-hu, Lulu.

--Those who want presets and such should obviously look elsewhere. Be happy with your stuff. Go forth and make music your way. I suspect that as Euro matures, we'll see more and more gear with memory. I've got a couple of items with memory, but most don't. It's no worse than a Moog. If you can live with a Moog, you can live with Euro. Rick Wakeman managed. Keith Emerson managed. Good music ensued.

--I have spoken elsewhere about my "deep oscillator" concept. This is a no-brainer if you want richer sounds: Use a Moog (or other synth of your choice) to get as close as you can, then trigger some extra VCOs, etc., via MIDI to get the sound you want. Those who think two or three oscillators are all you need to get any sound imaginable will not get much out of this idea, but it sure works for me. Or you can build what you want entirely within the Euro rack, then bring it out as a completed sound.

--I've got five or six 84HP/19" rack adapters. They're mostly full. However, my Euro rig has been stable for quite some time. I don't feel the need to join the Oscillator-Of-The-Month-Club. So much for the bottomless pit theory. Yes, you can play the game that way if you want, it's just that I don't really feel the need to do so to get where I want.

--I like the ability to buy what I need and only what I need. I don't much get off on the sound of a ring modulator, so I've not bought one. In that sense, it's actually cheaper.

--Yes, the knobs are smaller--I wish they were larger, but I've gotten used to it. Yes, the signal levels are higher than "normal" synths. It's a manageable problem.

--I've got two sequencers. They're so different that it's hard for me to look at them as being the same class of module. I don't always do sequencers, but when I do I want to be able to choose the right tool for the job. Be careful with your choice(s) and you'll be happy. Choose unwisely and you'll forever be frustrated.

 

More later when the craziness abates. They're just brought one of our ducks into the foyer to spend the night in the house. The critter seems to be sick, so they want to keep her warm and where they can keep an eye on her. Yes, ducks poop. No, it doesn't smell good, but if you've got livestock, you take care of them on an as-needs basis, so we've got a duck in the house on X-mas Eve. Get over it. I'll stick a clothespin on my nose if it gets too bad. At least, being sick, she's rather subdued and isn't quacking much. Ducks can be rather loud. And that's in addition to the usual amount of pre-Santa energy.

 

Oi!

 

Grey

[Markyboard]

...so we've got a duck in the house on X-mas Eve. Get over it.

Grey

 

You"re telling us to get over it? Really?

 

Wtd Grey?

 

[GRollins]

We're not going to eat her. The menu for the next few days is already set...

 

Grey

[Markyboard]

Perhaps the next best thing:

 

[GovernorSilver]

My comments are from a listening perspective. Aside from the occasional 'let"s see how this works, or doesn"t' I"m not much on sequencers. I much prefer establishing rhythmic elements using other time-centric modules like Maths, LFOs modulating LFOs and as mentioned randomizers.

 

As the title implies modular for me is a toolbox to enhance playing other synths.

 

That's what Lisa Bella Donna pretty much does. She plays the hell out of keyboards with her hands, often playing fleet-fingered virtuosic passages, and also uses sequencer - creatively too, not just in backing track style.

[Markyboard]

 

That's what Lisa Bella Donna pretty much does.

 

As Laurie Anderson used to say... 'only much, much, better'

[Ed A.]

My first synth back in 1981 was a PAiA 4700 modular. I gigged with it and cut my sound development chops experimenting with that thing. After acquiring my first Moog in 1985 I stopped using the PAiA. I have no desire to own modular again. Why?

 

1) perpetual upgrade treadmill

2) bottomless money pit for upgrades

3) I'm an performing ensemble player and modulars don't have a place in an ensemble. A modular is a solitary instrument.

4) can never reproduce a patch 100%. Even with digital pics for "patch storage". Not a quick change instrument for gigging.

5) high risk of malfunction when gigging a modular. Many potential points of failures.

6) today I have a good collection of synths, not many modular patches that I can't already do on them. My Andromeda is the closest thing to a modular, especially for modulations.

 

I'm a traditional trained player and enjoy hearing players. There's some good EDM out there played on modulars but I am not into bug music or bleeps and bloops.

 

Not saying modulars are bad, just that I no longer have a use for them. They're great for experimenting and building your sound design skills - already been there.

 

Hey, that's a coincidence, my first synth back in 1974 was a PAiA 2720 modular, and my next "real" synth was a Minimoog in 1979.

With both the PAiA 2720 and the ARP 2600/ARP sequencer I had, I've had my fill of patch cord modular/semi-modular synths for many of the reasons you mentioned.

I'm also more of a player rather than a "synthesist" although I do occasionally like to tweak patches.

 

What I don't like about modular are the modular users who think that collecting dozens of modules will somehow make their atonal bleeps and bloops and bug music a cut above others. I've observed that many (but not all) of these types have no actual musical talent and use modulars to pretend that they're "experimental musicians" probably to justify wasting money to their significant others. They might as well collect coins or PEZ heads instead. But, whatever floats their boat.

[RABid]

I wonder how much "modular" music is really modular. You can do a whole lot with Reason now that mimics the modular method.

[GovernorSilver]

 

That's what Lisa Bella Donna pretty much does.

 

As Laurie Anderson used to say... 'only much, much, better'

 

Gotta have a goal to shoot for, amirite?

[Marzzz]

Still waiting on that BARP 2600; sure I can make it quack!

[The Real MC]

What I don't like about modular are the modular users who think that collecting dozens of modules will somehow make their atonal bleeps and bloops and bug music a cut above others. I've observed that many (but not all) of these types have no actual musical talent and use modulars to pretend that they're "experimental musicians" probably to justify wasting money to their significant others. They might as well collect coins or PEZ heads instead. But, whatever floats their boat.

 

Sadly I've noticed that too.

[ProfD]

I've observed that many (but not all) of these types have no actual musical talent and use modulars to pretend that they're "experimental musicians" probably to justify wasting money to their significant others. They might as well collect coins or PEZ heads instead. But, whatever floats their boat.

That's hilarious.

 

I'd imagine all hobbies have enthusiasts with good intentions and enough disposal income to make it worthwhile. I do wonder how they manage to find a significant other.

 

Modulars work well especially in the hands of those interested in both sound design and music equally. Lisa Bella Donna is a great example. But, there are outlets for non-musical noise, er, sound design too.

[GRollins]

Music is part of the entertainment industry. If some people get a charge out of making beeps and boops, then presumably they're getting their money's worth and the hardware has served its purpose. I prefer melodies, myself.

 

Grey

[GovernorSilver]

I've observed that many (but not all) of these types have no actual musical talent and use modulars to pretend that they're "experimental musicians" probably to justify wasting money to their significant others. They might as well collect coins or PEZ heads instead. But, whatever floats their boat.

That's hilarious.

 

I'd imagine all hobbies have enthusiasts with good intentions and enough disposal income to make it worthwhile. I do wonder how they manage to find a significant other.

 

Modulars work well especially in the hands of those interested in both sound design and music equally. Lisa Bella Donna is a great example. But, there are outlets for non-musical noise, er, sound design too.

 

When I first moved to DC, one of the first musos to welcome me to the music scene was one of those experimental musicians. I met him at a show in a library in McLean where he had caterpillars or something connecting and disconnecting synth circuits that made noise. After I saw him play a couple more experimental gigs, he invited me to my first house show - it was at at place called 611, which was literally 611 Florida Ave. in DC in the Shaw-Howard area. They booked all kinds of musos from free jazz to acoustic folk to experimental to rock.

 

He was a human Energizer Bunny. I saw him run a music festival practically by himself, working the door, booking the performers, performing, working promotion, etc. I never saw him get tired. At the time his modular was Audiomulch running on a PC that was kind of rack mountable - about half the size of the rackmount PCs that Sweetwater sells.

 

After his employer BBC America moved him to NYC, he started a Eurorack modular and tried to sell me on starting my own EuroCrack habit. Last I heard he got married and now has a kid or two. Dunno if he ditched the modular or still has it.

 

I'm having a lot of fun with my new Moog Matriarch semi-modular. I'm just going through the Patchbooks thad Moog has published, exploring each patch to learn how things work on this synth, and judge if the resulting sounds are something I want to use for a piece. I'll probably end up sampling it a lot, as well as taking lots of photos of patch settings.

[Ockeghem]

When I think of modular and 'traditional' musicians, I first think of Carlos, Tomita, Perrey, and the innumerable '(you name it) on the Moog' records. Sequencers or really good musical chops required, often both. Technical skills a must. Live performance rarely or never on the big Moog. Cover songs or transcriptions usual.

Then I also think of jazz, rock and prog types who used it (or a Minimoog) mainly for soloing, a la Emerson, Wakeman, Hyman, Hammer, Hancock. None of them physics or engineering majors (correct me if I"m wrong of course) but musical skills in abundance, plus enough programming skills to get sounds they are after, or a studio tech to help out as needed. All very capable live performers in their day. Some covers, some originals, or both.

West Coast Serge/Buchla style is still avant-garde enough to not be 'traditional' in my book. Euro is somewhere in between, closer to the avant-garde. Not typically used for cover songs, although possible. Bloops and bleeps are available in abundance. Industrial weirdness is easily done.

So now that I have a big large format modular and some polys, I have decisions to make.

What does the audience want? What style, what format? Covers, originals?

Simple sequences obviously won"t always cut it.

But plenty of other options.

Synthmania is amazing these days IMO. Show me the way Paolo!

[GRollins]

I'm on the run, but would like to note in passing that had synthesizers.com, et. al. been a little cheaper (new) or a little more widely available (used on eBay/Reverb/CL), I could easily started down that path instead of Euro. Bigger knobs would be nice. I honestly don't find a lot of Euro stuff attractive to look at and some of the design graphics are so badly designed as to be unreadable; some of the pieces are very poorly designed ergonomically. (I'm looking at you, Make Noise! Although there are others who are just as bad.) I don't need "attitude," I need a device that gets out of the way and lets me make music. Synthesizers.com's stuff is tidy, legible, and makes sense to me. Who knows...I may yet start a separate Moog-style rack at some future date.

 

No, I haven't looked closely at Behringer's modular reissues yet.

 

Grey

[mate stubb]

Check out Robert Rich. His music combines ambient sound scapes and more traditional tension and release structures. He does it live too...

 

[GRollins]

On sequencers: If you're going to get just one sequencer, get one with a random function. I've got a Winter Modular Eloquencer that allows an insane amount of control over the randomness; it sets boundaries as to how much things can change. Lots, medium, only a little...and in what ways it's allowed to change...pitch, duration, etc. The bloody thing knows scales--lots of them (and I think you can code your own...?). Tell it you're in Eb harmonic minor and it's there waiting for you. If I only had one sequencer and all it could do was 1-2-3-4, 1-2-3-4, 1-2-3-4, I'd be saying, "What's the point?" Mind you, I've got one of those, but if I'm going to do something more interesting, it's the Eloquencer that gets cabled up. Incidentally, it'll chain for forever. My other one's only good for, like, eight or sixteen steps or something. Boring. The reason I keep it around is that it's easier to change on the fly than the Eloquencer.

 

The Eloquencer's expensive. I'm not saying you have to get that one (and the learning curve's a bitch--I still don't claim to know everything it can do), but there are others out there that will do random. Consider one for anything other than the most ordinary beeps and boops. Otherwise save your money for another module, because you'll only get frustrated with one that's too basic for what you hear in your head.

 

Note #1: I only use a sequencer, maybe, one out of four tunes? One out of five? And honestly, I only use one because I can't find anyone to play with. If I had a human, I'd leave it to him/her to do the whatever-it-is-that-the-sequencer-is-doing. Should I be so lucky as to find someone who wants to play original things, then the sequencers will start gathering dust.

 

Note #2: I NEVER use a sequencer to play something a human couldn't play. By this, I mean those riffs that are played at light speed, just because the hardware can cycle that fast. Fuck that. I want music that a human can play. Music that sounds as though a human played it--even if they're a little stilted in their playing style. Fringe benefit: If lightning strikes and I find someone to play with, they can learn the part and play it with their own two hands and/or feet. For me, sequencers are just--don't blush--sex toys. They're stand-ins because I don't have the real thing, you know what I mean? They're fake. I know they're fake. You know they're fake. If the real thing shows up, the fake goes in the closet...

 

Grey

[Ockeghem]

I got my first synthesizers.com 22 space cabinet full of modules, used.

It was two grand several years ago!

So no, not for the faint of heart, but the same amount of eurorack could cost me as much.

Maybe Doepfer would be less.

I just want to make good music with it before the wife revolts...

Markyboard's idea of augmenting the other keyboards by running signals in and out of filters is good.

[Markyboard]

Check out Robert Rich. His music combines ambient sound scapes and more traditional tension and release structures. He does it live too...

 

 

I've seen/heard him before and I find his work interesting and in part very enjoyable to listen to. No doubt from a live perspective what he and some of these other guys/gals are doing is mind blowing. But to have it also be music I want to just kick back and listen to - that's very rare and maybe it's just not kick-back music which is OK.

 

 

Here's a long performance which contains things I like and others I don't. The near 10 minute sequencer backed improv beginning at about 12:30 soon gets tiresome for me. On the other hand the atonal extended soundscape starting at about 22:30 is wonderful.

 

[video:youtube]

 

 

For me JMJ is probably at the top of my short list. I've run across a few others that also fit my narrow scope but it's way less than 1% of anything that crosses my path. Like I stated its just my likes vs dislikes.

 

 

That Eloquencer sounds very interesting. I wasn't aware something of that type existed. Again I'm not looking for anything for my own use. But if you can figure out how to get one into the hands of all the modular weenies out there that drive me nuts along with traditional music lessons that might be a great start.

 

 

I got my first synthesizers.com 22 space cabinet full of modules, used.

It was two grand several years ago!

So no, not for the faint of heart, but the same amount of eurorack could cost me as much.

Maybe Doepfer would be less.

 

I think you make a good point Tim - a well equipped modular spans the price range of normal synths - no different. Just depends on your budget and what you want.

[Ed A.]

Then I also think of jazz, rock and prog types who used it (or a Minimoog) mainly for soloing, a la Emerson, Wakeman, Hyman, Hammer, Hancock. None of them physics or engineering majors (correct me if I"m wrong of course) but musical skills in abundance

 

Herbie Hancock has a degree in electrical engineering.

[GRollins]

Markyboard's idea of augmenting the other keyboards by running signals in and out of filters is good.

 

I ran a bass though my Little Phatty one afternoon. Took a lot of fiddle-factor to get it going, but it was interesting once I got the kinks worked out. No, I've not felt the need to do it again, but it's in the back of my mind now as a possibility in case I need unusual effects.

 

Grey

[GovernorSilver]

This singer/songwriter was able to book time with TONTO, the super-modular synth made famous by Stevie Wonder and others. Part of the time was used to record TONTO responding to her brainwaves.

 

[video:youtube]

 

The session was funded by Canada Council for The Arts. I'm guessing they don't hand out money for professional studio time, let alone time with TONTO - to just anybody who waltzes by. I'm guessing Angie C. needed skills for writing a grant proposal, as well as a portfolio of established works (music).

 

https://calgary.ctvnews.ca/brainwave-controlled-music-latest-sound-to-emanate-from-studio-bell-1.5148350

[Ockeghem]

Then I also think of jazz, rock and prog types who used it (or a Minimoog) mainly for soloing, a la Emerson, Wakeman, Hyman, Hammer, Hancock. None of them physics or engineering majors (correct me if I"m wrong of course) but musical skills in abundance

 

Herbie Hancock has a degree in electrical engineering.

 

Didn't know it, thanks!

I picked up my 22-space dotcom at a diner in the town of Hancock, Maryland as it was midway to the eBay seller! Coincidence?

[GovernorSilver]

I patched up my Moog Matriarch with the Duophonic Movement patch from the 2nd Patchbook. I recorded a simple sequence of dyads/shell voicings - so, 2 simultaneous notes in one step - with some rests and a rachet at the end, into the onboard sequencer. The patch broke up those 2-note block voicings into something with more movement, hence I suppose the patch name. So it is indeed an example of the machine creating the music rather than the person. OTOH, I might not have composed two-voice counterpoint like that under the old-school pencil and sheet music paper paradigm.

 

While the Matriarch was running the sequence, I plugged the USB jack into my iPad, which had the Ravenscroft 275 app running. I discovered the Matriarch sequencer sends at least basic MIDI out. I heard the original 2-note block voicings on the app.

 

I'm not sure I would use this patch for real-time playing in the way Mark would like. It already violates the "machine cannot dictate the music" rule. It would probably be more useful for the composition/production part of the music-making process.

 

The patch seems to really push the Matriarch into one corner, in the sense that it can't be used for much else, unlike other patches which allow more flexibility - eg. pads that can be quickly changed to leads or vice versa. So I'm not sure I'll revisit this patch or the ideas incorporated into the patch anytime soon. But it was fun.

 

[video:youtube]

[Markyboard]

Paolo-

 

Nice exploration and discovery. But please be aware years from now, perhaps in your lifetime some android (not the tablet kind) will lay claim to the copyright on that "composition" as a direct descendant of the technology. Enjoy your premium royalty checks while you still can. And don't forget to buy beer for your supporting friends.

[Threadslayer]

 

Herbie Hancock has a degree in electrical engineering.

Did not know that. But it makes sense.