Mainstage, Cantabile, GigaPerformer

[hardware]

Im trying to build a spare rig, so far Ive got a spare 1U PC, spare DSP Rack and Spare 3 Oscillator synth, this has been expensive but all thats left is the Physis K4.

This beast does everything a board player would want, and then some.

 

Do any of these above hosts allow the software to create presets with layers x 3 and have those on 4 zones where you can assign the splits?

I want to use cheap disposable 88 note controllers that dont have zones, just skinny ass light weight Casio PX sized boards.

 

Which host could do this?

 

Thanks

[Sven Golly]

create presets with layers x 3 and have those on 4 zones where you can assign the splits?

 

What?

 

Short answer, though, given what I think you're asking, is yes, they all do.

 

Also, it's GigPerformer, not GigaPerformer, in case those new to the program are confused.

[dongna]

Mainstage for sure. I'm guessing both of the others no problem as well.

[hardware]

Thanks.

Im accustomed to layering Virtual Instruments, PianoTeq w/Keyscape & Cantabury Rhodes, etc.

I just bought Cantabile, I hope it has a similar GUI to Bidule since Im used to seeing my routings & Connections.

If not GigaPerformer looks like my Scope DSP & Bidule project windows.

 

 

 

[Sven Golly]

Please stop typing Giga.

 

It's clear you're completely unfamiliar with these VST hosts, because that's exactly what they do. You're fine.

[hatricklov]

Please keep typing Giga, it's mildly amusing.

 

FYI, if you go the MainStage route, it's only available on Mac OS.

[drawback]

The other night at my Giga, someone asked for a tune by Lady Gag.

[Reezekeys]

presets with layers x 3 and have those on 4 zones where you can assign the splits?

Which host could do this?

Just curious: why wouldn't Bidule qualify, since you already have and use it? I could program something like the above in a few minutes tops.

[hardware]

presets with layers x 3 and have those on 4 zones where you can assign the splits?

Which host could do this?

Just curious: why wouldn't Bidule qualify, since you already have and use it? I could program something like the above in a few minutes tops.

 

I didnt know that, Ive always used hardware and the host for playback only.

So I can have various splits layers and use prgm chng messages?

 

Could I get 256 scenes or presets?

Im already using an average of 3-4 scenes per song, so Id need 160 just off the top of my head.

 

PM me for an email if you have time.

I used your panic button up until a few years ago.

Im so use to the K4 I tried to findsomething with half of its capabilities, no joy.

 

Thanks Reez

[Reezekeys]

Could I get 256 scenes or presets?

Im already using an average of 3-4 scenes per song, so Id need 160 just off the top of my head.

Easily doable hell you could get as many scenes as you want started with a few clicks of the mouse, but you'd have to plan ahead and design a Bidule "group" based on what exactly you need to do. With the quantity you're talking about though, a dedicated program with nice graphics like Mainstage or Gig Performer might be a little faster. E.g., to set up a zone in Bidule you have to use drop-down menus to specify the low & high notes of the range, or click in individual checkboxes for each note you want to split. The other apps mentioned here might have a faster way. I'll PM ya with a few more details tomorrow.

[EscapeRocks]

Here's an example of on of my Mainstage patches.

The top 61 note board has two layers.

The bottom 88 note board is using 3, with different key ranges.

 

[Reezekeys]

Yep, that looks a fair bit easier to manage than with Bidule, I'll grant.

 

Below is how Bidule does it. Double-click the small "Note Filter" guy and you get the window to the right. You can choose any note or notes you want to split to another zone by clicking the individual checkboxes. They do at least give you a quick way of specifying a range of notes, along with a few other functions, at the top.

 

You'll see the little "Note Filter" has two small pins at the bottom whatever notes are checked go out the left pin, the others go out the right. You can string together a few of these note splitters (or connect a few in parallel) to create any kind of zoning you might imagine.

 

[hardware]

Sorry to waste your time guys, I just ordered another K4.

Now I got 2 matching rigs, Solaris and Code 8 stay home now, no way I could afford 2 more of those.

 

I read the manuals for GigaStudioPerformer, MainStage & Bidule.

All very doable but I have to use 5 reassignable pedals.

I could have just bought the MIDI Solutions 1U F8 and a Nektar LX but even on the T8 pedals are static, cant reverse LSB/MSB, cant reassign CCs.

 

Ive become too comfortable and they only cost 1800 now.

 

Ive been having so much fun performing I dont want to save 5-600 bucks and be working harder trying to think about pedal work arounds. Too much fun just concentrating on playing.

 

This weekend was especially fun as the Stage had 12 x 18 Subs under it, all MAC lighting, M32IP40 Midas, big ass Monolith Arrays, and the platforms x 4 attached to the 6 foot stage had 4 fine ass babes dancing.

 

What a drag thinking about work arounds and missing that every month.

 

 

[erik_nie]

I tried to mimic Mainstage behaviour with bidule:

Selecting patches with splits by enabling layers using program changes, backing tracks with clicktracks. For 2 midi manuals with different layers and splits.

My bottom-board mainly piano (e/cp/fm/cfx) with strings/pad layers and top-board with any kind of split.

Both need to be controlled individually, so on the fly: piano+strings bottom and brass top, of piano+fm+pad bottom and strings top.

 

I had it working, but the usage of different cores drove me nuts, it introduced clicks, using one core worked but limited the possbile load.

 

The patches were pretty deep, with many sub-pages in bidule...

Finally Mainstage made it possible using aliases to have all my needed sounds with 20-25% load.

perhaps Gigperformer (sorry Giga) might give less load, but 2 independant board are only possible with 2 running copys of gigperformer. I'd prefer everything in 1 program.

 

Mainstage had a bad version about a half year ago that made one perfomance feel like hell. Slow, missing notes.

Went back one version and everything is stable again. This make me very afraid of upgrading MacOs or mainstage....

Therefor I keep thinking about Bidule or Gigperformer.

 

[Reezekeys]

Using multiple cores in Bidule has been a challenge for me too. I get a lot done on one core but have just begun transitioning to a new setup that's less complex than the one I had. I put a few plugins on a separate core and so far so good.

 

I also like the "Midi Switcher 2 ports" which now has the option to "Keep Track of Notes by Output, No Automatic Closing" so you can switch a midi input to different destinations but the note-offs still go out the correct output. No more hanging notes, I can switch patches/plugins while playing and not worry.

[erik_nie]

nice, made my own workaround for that in bidule, now not needed anymore

 

[Iconoclast]

As a general rule, if anyone asks, "Can you do in Mainstage?"

 

The answer is yes.

 

And from what I've seen of the the other host programs, Mainstage looks easier to deal with. You have to buy a way overpriced computer to use it but the software is almost free.

[johnnyd]

Gigaperformer.. and forget about it..

[Bobby Simons]

As a general rule, if anyone asks, "Can you do in Mainstage?"

The answer is yes.

And from what I've seen of the the other host programs, Mainstage looks easier to deal with. You have to buy a way overpriced computer to use it but the software is almost free.

 

What he said.

[hardware]

As a general rule, if anyone asks, "Can you do in Mainstage?"

The answer is yes.

And from what I've seen of the the other host programs, Mainstage looks easier to deal with. You have to buy a way overpriced computer to use it but the software is almost free.

 

What he said.

 

Yes indeed, however please explain how I could use 5/6 Pedals with any of these hosts.

All with re assignable MIDI CCs per prgm chng message.

I read through a few manuals and possibly missed it.

 

 

 

[Reezekeys]

Bidule can certainly re-assign CCs for any number of midi controllers. Also scale the CC data, clip, invert, etc. Piece of cake. But I'd be surprised if the other hosts couldn't do it. I could get a Bidule group together in about 5 minutes with 128 presets that would let you re-assign CCs from those pedals. Assuming you have a fixed CC # for each pedal to begin with.

 

Actually the group could have 2000 presets, or 10,000 maybe... I never tested the limit. But you need a way to select from them, so with a "normal" 7-bit midi message, more than 128 would require bank change messages. I don't think Bidule has native modules that decode those so I'd probably need a few more minutes to whip something together with the "building blocks."

 

You can also use other tricks to select from >128 presets  like using a toggle switch to select between PCs 1-128 and 129-256. Anything you can think of to make it work is probably doable in Bidule.

[Iconoclast]

The only problem I see is do you have hardware to plug 5/6 pedals into?

 

If you do then it is absolutely no problem.

 

In my 2 keyboard rig I run a 2 different sustain pedals, 2 different volume pedals, a program advance pedal and a leslie slow/fast pedal.

 

Anything that sends a midi signal can be assigned to any midi target.

[Tusker]

Yes indeed, however please explain how I could use 5/6 Pedals with any of these hosts.

Speaking just for Mainstage, you add as many pedals as you want in layout mode.

 

All with re assignable MIDI CCs per prgm chng message.

If you understand the Mainstage hierarchy it becomes easier: Channel Strip < Patch < Set < Concert

 

Hardware devices are initially defined at the Concert level, but their function can be specified down to the Channel Strip level. To move a pedal from (for example) MIDI CC10 to MIDI CC11, use the midi-modifier plugin in a particular channel strip.

 

Yes, this means you can route the same pedal's midi stream to multiple MIDI CCs. You can also scale and transform it pretty comprehensively. You can add MIDI LFOs and Envelopes. If you are willing to do some scripting you could even add conditional logic.

 

A single controller (pedal or button or switch, or even a note) can also completely transform your rig within a patch by toggling channel strips on and off.

 

Lots of ways to skin the cat but these are a few. Hope this helps.

[Reezekeys]

I programmed a Bidule group to re-map CCs. PM'ed it to hardware, but in case another Bidule user sees this thread and wants it, just lmk. I'll probably upload it to the Plogue forum too, where it will join my other masterpieces of midi "re-engineering."

[EscapeRocks]

All in all,

 

Any of these programs is excellent, and all can pretty much do what you want to do.

 

I currently use Mainstage, and am working on shoring up GigPerformer since I am running mostly non Apple sounds now.

 

I like both, equally for different reasons.

Since I already owned Macbook Pros, $39 was a hell of a bargain for everything that comes with. Mainstage, including the ever-evolving AutoSampler (the old Redmatica)

 

As I started to move toward Native Instruments, Omnisphere, etc... I found Gig Performer handled them better than running inside Mainstage. I never had any issues with MS and these but they were CPU hogs.

 

In GigPerformer, not so much.

 

The key is to really take your time to get setup.

 

Based on the threads where Reeze has shared his info on Bidule, i believe that is a totally fine program as well.

[EricBarker]

Bidule is an extraordinary program, but I feel like it's at it's strongest running inside another host. I have no question it could be setup to do anything and everything I need, but it would be a bit of a doozy.

[hardware]

http://www.musictechnologiesgroup.com/files/MidiPatchChanger_v3_31.pdf

https://www.audiofront.net/MIDIExpression.php

 

I can use the above device to replicate K4s 4 x Scenes and 128 performances.

 

The bottom device for pedals is a static device but if the Host can re assign MIDI CC#s like CC 7 becomes 104 in Rackspace # 12, then goes back to CC#7 for a different rackspace I could get K4 quality performance tricks.

 

On the MTG MPrgm Chng device I would use Chain mode.

99 chains, 18 sections, i.e. verse, tag, etc.

 

This is fun, and even though I bought K4 #2, Im still going to try and us a single iCon Pro8 VST version due out soon.

 

Ive done above everything a player is required, love the various challenges.

Now Im into th smallest possible rig I can use, without sacrificing sound quality

 

Heres the Strymons, Converter, DSPRack and PC. Sub sits under it, dual QSC 8.2s on a single pole/stand behind it.

Im already covering all parts on a K4 only, getting some skinnier dispoable cheap 88 note unit is the goal.

 

Im playing on 2 nice stages in a rotational schedule, but in between those gigs Im on stages where Bingo was the show.

Really small,no dressing rooms, no stagehands, even have a Security Guard at one gig as the FOH.....LOL.

We call him Sargeant Sound or the Sound Cop.

 

 

 

 

[Synthaholic]

As a general rule, if anyone asks, "Can you do in Mainstage?"

The answer is yes.

And from what I've seen of the the other host programs, Mainstage looks easier to deal with. You have to buy a way overpriced computer to use it but the software is almost free.

 

What he said.

 

Yes indeed, however please explain how I could use 5/6 Pedals with any of these hosts.

All with re assignable MIDI CCs per prgm chng message.

I read through a few manuals and possibly missed it.

 

 

 

Would something like this work? Adding Bluetooth to your laptop (if it doesnt already have it) is cheap and simple.

 

https://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/Stomp6d3--airturn-stomp6-6-switch-bluetooth-pedal