Yamaha CP88 and 73 - Deserve their own thread

[AnotherScott]

Yet another example of assuming the 73k must be significantly lighter and cheaper than the 88 so it gets a lesser action. But sometimes the player just wants a shorter instrument but keep the better action. I think this is the case on the Forte 7, it maintains the same TP-40 as is used in the 88?

Right. Korg's 73s also use the same (RH3) action as their better 88s. And Nord, who used to use their better action on their 73s (original Stage and Stage 2) are finally doing that again with the Nord Piano 5. But neither approach is universally the one customers want.

[1203]

Well I agree the Rhodes are a step up from the Nord but I could not live with the action on the CP73 so I took a big hit and finally shifted on eBay. Maybe it was just down to Covid but it took months to shift. I think its a great form factor but apart from the P121, which I passed on to my son, there are very few 73 note weighted alternatives.

Well I agree the Rhodes are a step up from the Nord but I could not live with the action on the CP73 so I took a big hit and finally shifted on eBay. Maybe it was just down to Covid but it took months to shift. I think its a great form factor but apart from the P121, which I passed on to my son, there are very few 73 note weighted alternatives.

 

Maybe it"s only me, but I find the action of the YC73 a bit better to play than the CP73 i did try about two years ago. Could it be that Yamaha has tweaked it for the new models?

[ChazKeys]

Thats a good point. Mine was 2 years old and there were also reports of noisy keys and some stuff about the black keys too. Fair to say I never had any of those issues, just the action. The CP73 form factor with the pitch/mod sticks and controller functions is great and was a perfect second board for my E6D. Apart from the YC73 I cant think of another 73 with those features. BTW the YC73 is £500 more in the UK - that is a big difference. So maybe the YC does have a new keybed.

 

Edit: just googled some prices and the difference is £600-£700. Hmm.

[confidence]

How do you return something after playing two gigs on it?

[ElmerJFudd]

I returned this today after two weeks, two jazz gigs and considerable time in the office with the Senn HD650s. Really mixed feelings on it. Like I already posted, I love the updated CFX sound. It has better clarity and sustain then the CP4 CFX, especially for jazz ballads. But after two jazz gigs, I just couldn't get by the digging in and the action feeling it wasn't giving me anything back. Just a dead feeling. Never in seven years had that feeling on the CP4. The CP4 by comparison feels closer to an acoustic grand, just an inferior sound.

 

I briefly played the YC88 and I really do feel that action as better -- bottoming out differently and more responsive. Others have commented they feel no difference at all. My experience fwiw. I was tempted to go for it but I really didn't want to spend the extra dough on a part organ-centric board. I don't, or never will, do that.

 

Spent some considerable time on the Nord Grand. They had a discounted, ship related minor dinged model at 3K but....there was no return on it. Ten years later after selling my NP2, there's still something wonky on the attack of those piano samples for single note jazz lines. I'm playing "along came Betty" and Dolphin dance and it's just not right sounding or feeling. I know they sound great recorded and you don't notice it out front. But that doesn't help me while I'm playing. It's the same sh*t, just 10 years later. Tried all the newer samples that weren't out when I owned it- royal, white, velvet. Actually the Fazioli wasn't loaded in, that was the one that worked the best for me in the past. I might have bought it to see if I could get used to it after maybe two weeks. The action and player connection were very nice, especially compared to their fatar boards but with no return, forget about it.

 

I ended up buying the P-515. They are due in the store on 10/1. Payed a little more for it- $1600 + tax, maybe they had a price increase. Yamaha saw how popular they were and acted accordingly.

 

You"ve been wanting the P-515 since you played it, Dave!

 

When these came out I took a two hour+ drive to a shop I knew had the P-515, Crumar Seven, and CP-88. I spent the afternoon there and decided the CP-88 made the most sense for me. But the P-515 is in fact a little different to play, the built in speakers are useful at times. It"s a little heavier, a little larger. But a great choice in a digital piano for a discerning player.

[ElmerJFudd]

How do you return something after playing two gigs on it?

 

45 day return policy from online shops, it now becomes B-Stock, open box, etc.

 

Or if bought from your local shop where you"ve spent plenty of time and money, he/she"ll take it back in a heart beat to make sure your happy.

[confidence]

How do you return something after playing two gigs on it?

 

45 day return policy from online shops, it now becomes B-Stock, open box, etc.

 

Most have 30 days here (14 is statutory), but it's always on the basis that you send things back in completely new condition, as they arrived. The minor marks etc. that would result from a couple of gigs would be enough to invalidate your right to do that. There'd be some discretion in whether retailers actually enforce it - but I wouldn't want to spend that kind of money on the off chance. I do buy things, try them out and send them back, but I'm extremely careful when doing so.

[ElmerJFudd]

How do you return something after playing two gigs on it?

 

45 day return policy from online shops, it now becomes B-Stock, open box, etc.

 

Most have 30 days here (14 is statutory), but it's always on the basis that you send things back in completely new condition, as they arrived. The minor marks etc. that would result from a couple of gigs would be enough to invalidate your right to do that. There'd be some discretion in whether retailers actually enforce it - but I wouldn't want to spend that kind of money on the off chance. I do buy things, try them out and send them back, but I'm extremely careful when doing so.

 

Are they allowed to sell a return as new?

[eric]

How do you return something after playing two gigs on it?

 

45 day return policy from online shops, it now becomes B-Stock, open box, etc.

 

Most have 30 days here (14 is statutory), but it's always on the basis that you send things back in completely new condition, as they arrived. The minor marks etc. that would result from a couple of gigs would be enough to invalidate your right to do that. There'd be some discretion in whether retailers actually enforce it - but I wouldn't want to spend that kind of money on the off chance. I do buy things, try them out and send them back, but I'm extremely careful when doing so.

 

Are they allowed to sell a return as new?

 

Nope, this is the source of B-stock items.

 

Sorry to hear the CP88 wasn"t a keeper for Dave.

[dsetto]

Dave, do you think you didn't gel with the Nord Grand may a result of the supposed lack of the softest velocity levels in their Piano Library?

[confidence]

Are they allowed to sell a return as new?

 

In terms of general retail law I'm pretty sure the answer to that is yes. For example I buy a lot of clothes online, and the deal is always that you can try them on and return if they don't fit or you don't like them, but you can't wear them for extended periods, out of the house etc, to the point where they look like they've been worn. All the tags etc. have to remain intact so the retailer gets them back as new. It's pretty much like going to a shop and trying things on in the changin room, but the changing room is in your house. Now I don't see any of these retailers selling B-stock clothes, so I can only assume the ones they get back get resold as new.

 

I'm not aware of any specific laws pertaining to musical instruments that are different to anything else.

[AnotherScott]

Maybe it"s only me, but I find the action of the YC73 a bit better to play than the CP73 i did try about two years ago. Could it be that Yamaha has tweaked it for the new models?

I returned {the CP88} today...I briefly played the YC88 and I really do feel that action as better -- bottoming out differently and more responsive...If the YC88 didn't have the organ and was just an up dated CP88 for around the same price, I would have bought it there today.

Although only a sample of two, this is really interesting. I had assumed the CP88/YC88 had identical actions, same with CP73/YC73. There has been speculation in the past about how a physically identical action can feel different perhaps from mounting in a different chassis, and from different software, but the chassis of these boards and things like sample velocity mapping of the sounds they have in common would presumably be very much the same. I wonder if this could be merely variation from one production run to another, such that one YC or CP is as likely to fall into someone's "better" or "worse" category as another, or if there really is a difference comparing ALL of the CP version of a model to ALL of the YC version due to some inherent design difference in those models.

[keyboardologist]

Although YC and CP might advertised having the same actions, I believe they don't. I feel that there might be basic changes on velocity curves engine, chassis and maybe some more details (like the key weights, etc).

 

The weird thing is that on the thomann e-store, they are listed with different keyboard variations and I'm not sure if these are just site typos or the actions are common but they are somehow configured in a different way:

 

Yamaha YC73: BHS (Balanced Hammer Standard) keyboard with 73 keys and 3 split zones

Yamaha CP73: BH5 Keyboard (Balanced Hammer Action)

Yamaha YC88: 88-Key NW-GH3 (Natural Wood Graded Hammer) keyboard with synthetic ebony and ivory key tops

Yamaha CP88: NW-GH3 Keyboard (weighted, wood with synthetic ivory top layer)

 

The first is BHS (with an s) with 'Standard' word, the second BH5 (with a five number) with the 'Action' word, the third and fourth are stating the same type, but YC88 is listed as Graded and CP88 just as Weighted.

 

YC73/CP73 might be a typo thing, but YC88/CP88 might actually not. Maybe weights are really graded on the YC88 and not on the CP88, although based on the target market needs.... they should have been the opposite way around!!!!

[AnotherScott]

YC73/CP73 might be a typo thing, but YC88/CP88 might actually not. Maybe weights are really graded on the YC88 and not on the CP88, although based on the target market needs.... they should have been the opposite way around!!!!

The G in GH or GH3 stands for Graded (vs. B for Balanced).

[ChazKeys]

The Yamaha site has the CP and YC 73s as BHS. Interestingly they describe the 73 action on both as electric piano - presumably Rhodes not the Wurly action.

 

From the Yamaha website:

 

YC73 BALANCED ELECTRIC PIANO ACTION

 

YC73 has a weighted and balanced action that models the unmistakable feel of an electric piano. With an E-to-E keyboard and a touch that falls between graded acoustic piano and authentic organ action, it"s quite possibly the most versatile YC of all.

[pawelsz]

Yamaha CP73: BH5 Keyboard (Balanced Hammer Action)

 

that "5" is surely a mistake, the correct is BHS

[Outkaster]

I like the YC88 action myself

[pawelsz]

Ugh, I get an email this morning from GC saying the P-515 that was supposedly supposed to be in on 10/1 is now moved back to Dec. 10....and that could change.

 

The Pasadena GC has my CP88 that I returned last Sunday on the floor. They said they'd knock $150 off. I'm considering re-buying it.

 

I'm torn, I've been playing the CP4 the last few days and the sound is pretty dated and uninspiring compared to the CP88. I don't spend very long on it, where I was playing the CP88 quite a bit in the office. It's just the CP4 is more playable live. Sound vs action...a quandary.

 

I think you will most likely return CP88 again, so I recommend waiting for your first old choice - P-515. Unless you want to buy the CP88 several times

[keyboardologist]

If you do like CP4's action and you can carry it without a problem, stick with it or wait for the P515 and skip the CP88, otherwise you will regret it again and again.

 

Has anyone demoed the Viscount Legend '70, artist, w or compact? Is it a fatar action? How good is compared to the CPs? Although all models are heavier and more expensive than CPs...

[ElmerJFudd]

If you do like CP4's action and you can carry it without a problem, stick with it or wait for the P515 and skip the CP88, otherwise you will regret it again and again.

 

Has anyone demoed the Viscount Legend '70, artist, w or compact? Is it a fatar action? How good is compared to the CPs? Although all models are heavier and more expensive than CPs...

 

Yes they are using Fatar actions.

 

Legend 70s thread

https://forums.musicplayer.com/ubbthreads.php/topics/3018384/1

[16251]

Thank guys, probably right. Just have a run of gigs right now and really did dig the sound the of CP88 CFX.

 

Dave, let's go to the tape:

 

But..... when the intensity/volume rose, I wasn't getting the same type of feedback, or response in the sound to action connection I get on the CP4 when I dig in..

[Brad Kaenel]

If you do like CP4's action and you can carry it without a problem, stick with it or wait for the P515 and skip the CP88, otherwise you will regret it again and again.

 

Has anyone demoed the Viscount Legend '70, artist, w or compact? Is it a fatar action? How good is compared to the CPs? Although all models are heavier and more expensive than CPs...

 

Yes they are using Fatar actions.

 

Legend 70s thread

https://forums.musicplayer.com/ubbthreads.php/topics/3018384/1

 

This thread, too; has many evals and comparisons:

https://forums.musicplayer.com/ubbthreads.php/topics/3100923/3

[Al Quinn]

Ugh, I get an email this morning from GC saying the P-515 that was supposedly supposed to be in on 10/1 is now moved back to Dec. 10....and that could change.

 

The Pasadena GC has my CP88 that I returned last Sunday on the floor. They said they'd knock $150 off. I'm considering re-buying it.

 

I'm torn, I've been playing the CP4 the last few days and the sound is pretty dated and uninspiring compared to the CP88. I don't spend very long on it, where I was playing the CP88 quite a bit in the office. It's just the CP4 is more playable live. Sound vs action...a quandary.

 

My solution to this quandary is to pick the one that I can best express myself on because, in the end, that"s the ultimate goal. Is it clear which is the one that you can best express yourself on?

[thomsurf]

Hi Dave. Did you use your RCF speakers on any of those CP88 gigs?

[Al Quinn]

That"s interesting Dave. The issue you describe when digging in sounds very much like the issue I had with my CP33 years ago. I didn"t like it, never understood it, but with the CP4 that issue disappeared.

 

I also feel the CP4 sound is getting dated. I bought a Dexibell SX7 sound module so that I could use the Hammond SK Pro as a single keyboard on some gigs and, to my surprise, I like the Dexibell APs better than the CP4"s. I have a jazz gig next week and I"m considering using the SX7 as an AP sound module for the CP4. This was never my intention but I"m having trouble resisting as the sound module is almost nothing to schlep and it sounds so good!

[AnotherScott]

I also feel the CP4 sound is getting dated. I bought a Dexibell SX7 sound module so that I could use the Hammond SK Pro as a single keyboard on some gigs and, to my surprise, I like the Dexibell APs better than the CP4"s. I have a jazz gig next week and I"m considering using the SX7 as an AP sound module for the CP4. This was never my intention but I"m having trouble resisting as the sound module is almost nothing to schlep and it sounds so good!

Maybe pricier than desired, but I wonder if putting an SX7 on a CP88 (which has strong MIDI integration functions), you could get everything you need (or if, to the contrary, something about the CP88 will fail you when digging it, even when driving an external sound). More cost effectively, perhaps, you might find, say, an iPad piano sound that works for you as your "second" sound for when the native CP88 ones fail you (albeit with the same caveat of seeing how that behaves when you dig in as well).

[ChazKeys]

Well here it is V1.5 - looks like Yamaha have listened to concerns about the Touch Sensitivity. Looks like a nice update - pity I sold my 73 last month, probably should have had more faith in IdeaScale. Look forward to feedback from users. (not live yet...)

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rZGhoomKS7w

 

Update UK

 

https://uk.yamaha.com/en/products/music_production/stagekeyboards/cp88_73/update.html#product-tabs

[Doerfler]

[jejefunkyman]

This is what I like with Yamaha, for the CP series, they offer regular OS updates with new features, unlike Korg. Already the fifth updgrade (if I refer to the OS numbering, correct me if I'm wrong), whereas Korg only released one update for the SV2 :-( with a very minor adjustment.

 

I think it is good in our modern times to offer the owners the possibility to add new sounds to their palette, or to swap them depending of the context, or mood, or one's own preference (which can change along the time :-)).

 

I had this expectation with the SV2, but it looks like Korg will not fulfill it. And the internal sounds are not always exempted from little imperfections. It makes me sometimes regret not to have bought the CP88 instead of the SV2.

 

But anyway, that's how it is. So to all CP users: enjoy the new OS :-)

[ChazKeys]

Touch Sensitivity update. Screenshots from the manual - Depth and Offset. Saved on a per patch basis - this should really help with feel of the CP73.