Gigging, steady low pay vs one offs higher pay

[re Pete]

Ok, edited my rambling post. Don't want to hurt anyones brain.

 

 

What do you prefer. A single higher paying one off gig or steady lower pay.

 

[Sven Golly]

Wow.

 

Please learn to use paragraphs. I can't get through that post at all.

 

You can edit your post to add some hard returns between thoughts.

 

Good luck.

[ElmerJFudd]

Hello, I've played keys since 70's off and on in various group settings. Mostly interested in jazz, but weddings, etc. whatever to help pay bills. I've also studied and tuned pianos as a sideline over the years.

 

In responce to Greg C's thread https://forums.musicplayer.com/ubbthreads.php/ubb/showflat/Number/2944757/gonew/1/OT_The_Virtue_of_Struggle#UNREAD I'll share my latest music persuit.

I've always made solo piano as the longterm goal. Playing (without singing yet) a full night gig and trying to keep it interesting to the audience seemed a hugh hurdle. Just adding a bass player changes so much etc. But solo has pros and cons. Key, tempo, style changes can be on the fly. Losing the comfort of playing with others makes it more intense. I always felt somewhat intimidaded and nervous when a solo gig came up.

 

Then about 10 years ago I got a call to play a holiday house party. After I accepted, I thought I must be nuts to go to a home and play for strangers. It was intense. Small living room people sitting on chairs and sofas waiting for me to play for them. Normally I'd be terrified. But something changed for me before this at another gig. I thought how at times people can play great and not get a responce, and the reversal, not so great but get good comments. This changed my outlook, along with getting older and the clock running out. I decided to just move forward, perform and see what happens.

 

Shortly after I got a call out of nowhere from a small restaurant owner saying his piano player is leaving, do you want to audition? He told me the pay for the 4 hr Fri-Sat. You guessed it, right out of the 70's. Let's just say between 50-100. He said "but the crowd tips!" The pros and cons of this gig was short drive from my home, no loading instruments and I play what I want for diverse audience. I know some people who wouldn't even audition (1 hr). Saying just go to my website for examples. But, since places that actually have an accoustic piano,(console this case)like an Italian supper club are not too numerous around me.

 

So, I played, got the gig, then it got interesting. Piano badly out of tune. On a podium, next to dining booths and bar 4 feet away. Was constantly told to play softer. Got to the point I had to use middle pedal mute strip which sounded so bad, and trying to play so soft all the time started to hurt my hands. So after about a month, I told the owner the piano needs work. He said he had a contract with a company. I recommended tuning and hammer voicing as it was a Yammy with hard hammers and very loud.

 

In the end no one came out. So at a crossroads it was either I quit or I take ownership and fix it myself.

 

Personally, if I didn't make at least 100 a night including tips for this type of gig, then the wedding/event band scene which pays much more around here, but is very crowded with bands, (one of which I'm still in but plays rarely) would be the go to. I decided to just come in and do the work. (Owner offered me no pay).

 

Opened up the piano and see it gets tuned 2 times a year! They have music 3 nights a week, so that tells it right there what the crowd puts up with.

 

Anyway, sorry for long story. I've found since, the piano needs tuning once a month. I've done this and voiced the piano to the point I have a following. The booth next to the piano is always full which I was told never happened before.

So, the tradeoff: less money than wedding/event one offs, but much more satisfying playing, allowing my solo playing to develop. Since playing there musicians are coming in to listen. I've gotting good feedback. I've learned to read the crowd. And most important for me learning you can't please everyone.

 

Once played a song and an old lady came up and I thought I was getting a compliment. She yelled I was playing too many notes. Only wanted melody! Other time a world class pianist came out of nowhere and complimented. So, give and take I guess. At least in this place. Thank God the tips are pretty good.

Again sorry for long post.

 

Convince them to retire the piano. If they dont have money to maintain the real thing, replace with an Avantgrand if looks matter to them. If not, do the gig on a CP4 with a good PA speaker.

[re Pete]

They'd never do that. They want a real piano and have a fixed budget and that's it.

[ElmerJFudd]

Ever get into piano tuning? You can learn pretty quickly. Only need a few tools and an iPhone app. After a while you may find you have the knack and can do by ear.

[re Pete]

I've been self employed part time tuning for a number of years. If I had to do it full time I'd probably hate practicing the piano. Hearing loss and chiropractic issues can get in the way also.

 

[ElmerJFudd]

In this case it would be just once a month.

But if you really want to drop that steady gig, do it.

No $ is worth the stress and aggravation.

[Jazzmammal]

Sounds like we're about the same age and musical backgrounds. All you've done is once again describe the state of live performance for older players. We've talked about that many, many times here. Pay hasn't changed in 30 years, venues have closed or completely changed format and everybody's uncle, third cousin and dog is a player to the point it's beyond being a joke. Whattayagonnado? It is what it is. If you can live with that crap piano fine, if not enjoy your retirement.

 

As for me, I've been gigging around SoCal for 30 years, lots of people know me so I get enough calls to keep my musical fix satisfied but it's not for the money. Financially it's ridiculous, I play for my soul. I can play anything from the 40's to the 80's. Big band, jazz, solo piano, classic rock, country, blues, funk. That versatility is why I get the calls. If I was stuck in only one of those styles, I'd get 2 or 3 gigs a year.

[re Pete]

Depends. People I know that do one offs can be driving for hours in heavy traffic. This is a 20 minute ride thru horse country.

 

 

[re Pete]

Yes, I've read posts about venues pay etc. And I know there is not much money in jazz for the most part unless you're cream of the crop maybe.

 

I also play big band. Different skills needed, all good. But at times you don't play much and wait for your solo etc. We played a jazz venue that for the 1st time I didn't need to touch up the piano it being in tune. The piano at this solo superclub ain't bad now when it's tuned. I'm glad I can do it for what it's worth and it's an opportunity to play for the moment.

 

Solo playing exposes you. Play what you want that fits. I've tried doing some classical. Last night was Moonlight Sonata 1st movement with the full moon out. If I did next 2 movements it's not appropriate for conversation.

 

I guess my question is what would others do steady pay vs one offs higher pay?

[Joe Muscara]

Once played a song and an old lady came up and I thought I was getting a compliment. She yelled I was playing too many notes. Only wanted melody!

 

[video:youtube]

[Jazzmammal]

I don't care so much about waiting for a solo in a big band because the sound is just so awesome. I get plenty of solos in the small groups and yep, I've driven a long way for the occasional high paying gig and then think all the way home, was it worth it?

 

Since you've made that piano half decent it sounds to me like you've found a home at least for a while. I've never done a continuous solo gig, just one nighters but I know I would really miss having at least a bass player. What I learned years ago doing solo was I don't have to follow an exact chart. The first time I did one I had my fakebooks up and was reading them down but then I realized, hey this is just me if I happen to miss the bridge no biggie. I "almost" know a whole bunch of jazz standards so I put the books away and just started playing. If I got lost I vamped a few 2-5's until I thought of something. I wound up playing continuously for about two hours just going from one thing to another and everybody loved it. I did get a few requests so for those I pulled up the chart and played it correctly, otherwise I just relaxed and kept on truckin. I wouldn't mind a gig like yours for a while because it would force me to sharpen up those tunes I almost know.

[re Pete]

I agree. Once I heard a great big band I wanted to be in one. Took months to get my reading up to par. Counting, interpreting a piano part with little to nothing on it, or the reverse.

 

 

I still play in one and enjoy it. When opportunity comes I enjoy duo, trio, etc. Variety is nice. It's almost 2 yrs of doing this solo gig. It's been intense. Easy to get distracted as people are close. Which leads to a problem I have maybe.

Easy to get too wrapped up in the music concentrating or reading as people walk by. Need to work on the art of schmooze, memorizing more and interact with the people while playing I guess. I do try, but easy to mess up unless you know the tune inside and out. I do need to read at times to get through a full night and it's a lot of tunes. A cocktail hour gig x's 4.

 

Which leads to what I really like about solo gigs. You get to call out all the songs. Of course, can get lonely. Playing with better players maybe you can't call out a tune, but more competition on the stage. Variety is good. I just wished more establishments owned a piano and took care of it. One thing I can say is people love an in tune piano. Untuned past a certain point, it's bad vibes and should be an embaressment to the proprietor.

 

 

 

 

[Quai34]

I prefer the highest pay even if it's less often ....I'm known for that in tn erea because they know I deliver good performance....And anytime they ask me to discount, I asked how they would feel if their boss will ask them to do the same amount of hours and pay them less at the same time....

So, 200$ for a 3 hours gig or I don't play

[yannis D]

I still like playing out live, so i get the less money-steady gig option

I'm still on this category

[I-missRichardTee]

I read the rambling version you first posted.

I am a rambler ( I am old enough to recall a Rambler vehicle, but now I am bragging, AND rambling ) myself... I picked up on your thoughts.. just fine.

 

Essentially: Jazz, Are you serious, in a big band? How dull. If you want jazz, forget about getting paid... think jam sessions; certainly not big bands. I used to hear Monday night at The Vanguard with one of the greatest bands of its kind, Thad and Mel. The pianists barely soloed. the regular pianist Sir Roland; and Chick Corea, Jan Hammer did one night each, on my watch- I was there a lot.

 

Back to other part of question... a perennial one. Steady low money, or seldom one nighter. Best is to do both... for that you need a trusted sub, or an understanding with club owner.

But if forced to choose between death by hanging or guillotine ( an ancient device from a former incarnation of mine ) , I would go with maximum playing.. the steady.

And yes, stop trying to impress , and continue your unfolding realization, that "the melody is Boss", as a first class player once told me.

[re Pete]

Well, I hear ya. Big band is a team and you deal when called upon for soloing. Though the piano part has some freedom to interplay and not overplay, etc. If there's guitar, no need both to comp to back a soloist. I find it a real learning experience, as long as the leader is accomplished.

 

I wish there were more jam sessions. I see more sessions pay to play these days at some spots.

 

One thing I believe for me at least is you can practice all you want at home. You'll improve, but play live you'll improve 2x's faster.

 

As for melody. When I first was taught improv, I was instructed to put the melody notes somewhere in the riffs. I try to play to suite the moment. I remember faces of people who want me to light it up along with their tips. Balanced by trying to not be overwhelming. Usually the night starts off tame, gets more wild as it goes on.

 

Question: Do you refer to melodic playing as playing sweet?

 

[I-missRichardTee]

melodic as sweet? Normally no.

But melody is an old thing for me.

One of my early favorite sounds came from the Peter Ilyich Tchaikovsky. Coincidentally, speaking of sweetness, my Dad who was quite musical singer, referred to Tchaikovsky, as sweet or sugary. I always disagreed with him. ( He had great taste though - Mozart was a favorite of his - and the italian operas )

To this day, these people, who I view as especially "sweet", are to me impeccable in their taste, musicality, and perhaps a brand of sweetness.

Stan Getz

Tchaikovsky

Paul Desmond

Johnny Hodges

 

Now, a little less sweet but still, broadly in this highest coterie of giants..are Lester Young

and Bill Evans. Erroll Garner is another melodic genius type.

 

So, as I am writing this ( I reflect as I write.. so sue me ) I seem to have what I call melodicness and sweetness, closely associated... but not perfectly so.

I mean Miles Davis is very melodic, but he has less sweetness, I suppose.

 

Johnny Mathis always struck me as especially melodic fellow.

Yet Sinatra has a well known genius for expressing melody. Both super melodic, yet Mathis is more sweet for sure.

 

Before I forget to assert it

Melody is the ultimate gift that a musician is granted with from, in my opinion, a Creator.

I do not think melody, at the level of people I just mentioned, can be taught.

 

To anyone who even slightly belittles sweetness in melody, I always say, just try it. Try to write a great melodic idea, that is singable. memorable and considered as "sweet".

Just try it.

 

Every name I mentioned is very broadly, in the "melodic camp". But people like Bach Beethoven, Sonny Rollins, are not one whit less. I just don't associate them in quite the same way.

This does not make sense, but perhaps you can read between the lines of my illogic!

 

 

[I-missRichardTee]

I

Which leads to what I really like about solo gigs. You get to call out all the songs. Of course, can get lonely. Playing with better players maybe you can't call out a tune, but more competition on the stage. Variety is good. I just wished more establishments owned a piano and took care of it. One thing I can say is people love an in tune piano. Untuned past a certain point, it's bad vibes and should be an embaressment to the proprietor.

 

Question

Do you really believe patrons notice, the out of tuneness of the piano?

Not just a hunch, but do you really know this?

[Bobadohshe]

Do whichever makes you happy

[xKnuckles]

I prefer steady work. But, as IMRT mentioned, if you have the steady work you can get a Dep and then do the higher paid stuff as well. Win win.

[re Pete]

I have nothing against melody. For the most part I state the melody thru the song then repeat and embellish on it which is traditional I was taught. Obviously, a melody can be arranged in many styles. I was thinking when I hear people say play sweet, more in line with Lombardo, Paul Whiteman. Sweet can sound corny as well.

 

I like how players like Dave McKenna, Evans, Garner, Fred Hersch, etc. interpret songs. The resources like Youtube should make young students excited. But I see them more into video games. Maybe parents are restricting or protecting them from the bad stuff on the web. But I wish I could of seen or listened to stuff like this at the drop of a dime coming up.

 

 

 

[re Pete]

Some people more, some less. The owner knows when it's out but won't do beans to get it back. The tip jar experience: in tune= more bread. I do believe some people may not know what's going on but it just feels or sounds bad to them.

 

Maybe if all we had to listen to was microtonal music it'd be different. I can take some Harry Partch or other composers delving into microtonal scales, but a steady diet no thanks.

 

To me, as long as I know it's out of tune and can be improved for performance, that's most important for creativity. If the owner didn't allow me for some reason to take care of his piano and I was forced to try to be creative on a sonic mess I would of quit in a month. I thought here's an opportunity. Play it out of tune and get a headache, or deal with it on my own terms. He's gotten about $2500 of tunings for free not including voicing the hammers about 6 times till it kept it's warm sound. He once gave me $40 after tuning it. For this, when a better paying one off gig comes up I usually take it. He gets whoever and I'm happy with whatever happens at this point. Change can be good. But as you all know the scene can suck.

[Threadslayer]

But I wish I could of seen or listened to stuff like this at the drop of a dime coming up.

 

 

I've thought about this too. You can't go back and change context obviously, but I sometimes wonder what sort of player I might have evolved into if instead of spending countless thousands of hours woodshedding confounding problems down dead ends, I could have resolved them with a 5 minute YT and moved on.

[I-missRichardTee]

But I wish I could of seen or listened to stuff like this at the drop of a dime coming up.

 

 

I've thought about this too. You can't go back and change context obviously, but I sometimes wonder what sort of player I might have evolved into if instead of spending countless thousands of hours woodshedding confounding problems down dead ends, I could have resolved them with a 5 minute YT and moved on.

 

You lost me on the 1000's of hours part!

What did you waste your time doing??

[Threadslayer]

Years of teaching myself blues, jazz, classical, country, pop on numerous instruments by wearing out the grooves on my LPs, wearing out the rewind and play buttons on cheap cassette players, shrieking in frustration at poorly transcribed sheet music, etc.

 

[MathOfInsects]

If anyone's curious, and not to get too far OT, but the western foregrounding of melody is a holdover from the Enlightment, when Europeans specifically felt that the ability to produce melody, with pureness of pitch and timbre, made them closer to the angels. As a result of this belief, when they encountered civilizations whose music did not foreground the same elements (but instead, for example, rhythms, which are actually melodies to the practitioners' ears, unbeknownst to the Euros), they perceived those civilizations as primitive, which emboldened the Europeans to colonize them and help the poor lost souls find "God" or at least the people who were on a first name basis with Him.

 

This is why copyright law in the West is only interested in melody, and also why people still say things like, "That's not music, that's just talking over beats."

[Threadslayer]

Europeans specifically felt that the ability to produce melody, with pureness of pitch and timbre, made them closer to the angels.

Provided you stayed away from those pagan thirds.

[I-missRichardTee]

Years of teaching myself blues, jazz, classical, country, pop on numerous instruments by wearing out the grooves on my LPs, wearing out the rewind and play buttons on cheap cassette players, shrieking in frustration at poorly transcribed sheet music, etc.

 

Still not connecting the dots of your beating self up.

How does a YT 5 min listening equal 1000's of hours of the way you struggled ?

Sorry, I am dense, I guess.

[Threadslayer]

Years of teaching myself blues, jazz, classical, country, pop on numerous instruments by wearing out the grooves on my LPs, wearing out the rewind and play buttons on cheap cassette players, shrieking in frustration at poorly transcribed sheet music, etc.

 

Still not connecting the dots of your beating self up.

How does a YT 5 min listening equal 1000's of hours of the way you struggled ?

Sorry, I am dense, I guess.

I really wasn't saying anything particularly profound. Just remarking on the wealth of tools available online these days for the aspiring musician versus the limited resources available pre-personal computer in the 1960s and 70s. As far as beating myself up, I have a stubborn streak - this was especially true when I was younger - and I had/have a tendency to obsess over details and worry the problem to death until I'm satisfied with the result.