good quality 2-tier x-stands a dying breed?

[CEB]

I thought there was a good X-stand I've seen. I need to see if it is still made. I thought Pro Line was the brand.

[CEB]

No that ain't it. They make a double braced X but the latch don't look like the one I remember.

[CEB]

I guess it depends on how much you play but for me 2011 to current would be a good run. If you liked the Pro Line get another one. Personally for two tier gigs I use Monolths. They have nice pros and a few cons .... And that stand needs to fit the player. But it is a quik Lok. If the Monolith looks interesting let me know and I will tell what is cool and what sucks.

[MojoGuyPan]

Have you ever tried an Invisible Stand?

 

I've never seen one.

[Tom Williams]

The Invisible Stand (RIP) is rock solid, has only one adjustable / vulnerable part (a turnbuckle) which frankly has not failed in the 25-30 years I've had it. If it did fail, I could replace it with one trip to the home improvement store. It's right up there with Z-stands in terms of stability, and sets up / breaks down in maybe a minute.

 

I would love to be able to buy up the patent, and then rebuild the Invisible using carbon fiber.

 

So as to not dilute this scathing rebuke to Mojo, I'll restrain myself from saying how much I dislike Ultimate Support's Apex / Deltex stands.

[Reezekeys]

I'm not as restrained as Tom. I have the original Apex. It was very cool when it was introduced the design was unconventional and futuristic-looking, and it was a solid stand that did a good job of supporting a heavy keyboard like my KX88 which I was using at the time.

 

The Apex is a very heavy stand but back then nobody batted an eye at keyboards and amps that weighed a ton because that's how stuff was built. Today is a different story of course. It was long enough to make securing on a hand truck very awkward and maybe even dangerous. Because of where I had the clamps, the handle had to be in a position that was off-center, which made lifting & carrying the stand a bear as one end would tilt down and you'd need to exert a lot of energy to keep it from hitting & dragging on the ground. Of course the end that tilted down was the one with the legs, and the clips that kept them "locked" became worn, so as soon as I picked up the stand the legs would slide out! I really came to hate this stand. Then there was the issue of the legs interfering with the placement of the sustain & expression pedals - I needed to have them at an unnatural angle. And once your keyboard is in place on the Apex, hope that you don't have to move it! And don't lose that little thumbscrew that holds the "stabilizer."

 

The thing is gathering dust in my garage. I guess this is partly why I'm happy as a clam playing my 10 lb. controller on a single-x stand. I still get the Apex on my road gigs (that's pretty much the only keyboard stands backline companies use) but I have no issues with that other than the weird pedal placement, since I'm not doing my own setup!

[MotiDave]

i have a pro line double X - its solid and reliable. I still use it at home for sitting practice but I switched to AX48 for performing - i only stand. it has its design inefficiencies. my biggest gripe is the top lid that holds the arms for transport - the latch is crap, it will pop open easily. it is heavier than it needs to be though Spider is even heavier. I first tried Spider but it just felt like too much for me and i didn't like the 2nd level was always there, even if playing 1 board gig. you can disassemble and take the upper arms off, but its not gig-flexible to decide on the fly 1 board vs 2.

 

Apex lets you just have 1 level, the second arms stay stowed.

i like it vs X for appearance, transport size, and the boom mic arm. Setup is fast though nothing is as fast as an X.

instead of 5 sec setup with an X, i spend 60 seconds on the AX48, the difference doesn't matter.

 

I wouldn't use it if i played sitting down. I forget if OP said he plays up or down.

 

some have pedal problems, i think its those with elaborate pedal boards etc - not me, i'm the opposite. I use just a sustain and latch switch pedal, no board or box needed. With AX48, the horizontal feet keep my pedals from moving around without gaff taping them down - it allows me to move my sustain a few inches left or right to position for songs i'm in high registers vs low registers. with the X - i had to pick one best spot and tape them down. thats another plus for me with AX48 vs X.

 

On the occasional fly in, almost always i'm handed an X-stand. I'm taller so I too have to draw the arms in closer to get height. taller you go, the less stable it feels. one thing i learned using X-stand - i always gaff tape the bottom of my board to the two X arms, otherwise i might push my board around too much to the edge of coming off the stand when i'm getting in a rocking frenzy.

[ChiefDanG]

Like TomWilliams and a few others around here, I've been using Invisible Stands for decades. Owned two since the early 80s, bought a third from TonySounds a couple years ago. That turnbuckle thingie might be a vulnerable point, and I did replace one around 3 years ago. It broke (stripped out) on a gig - no crash or damage. A bungie cord got me thru the night.

No stand is the perfect one for everybody - just like keys/amps/monitors......

Hopefully, the one that works out ergonomically for you is made with enough quality that you're not re-buying it every year or so. Or, worse yet, you end on YT in a "......Fails!" video.

[Outkaster]

Quik Lok stopped making stands in Italy and the production has since suffered.

[Reezekeys]

some have pedal problems, i think its those with elaborate pedal boards etc - not me, i'm the opposite. I use just a sustain and latch switch pedal, no board or box needed. With AX48, the horizontal feet keep my pedals from moving around without gaff taping them down - it allows me to move my sustain a few inches left or right to position for songs i'm in high registers vs low registers. with the X - i had to pick one best spot and tape them down. thats another plus for me with AX48 vs X.

I understand US has updated the Apex design. I have v1. I'm curious to know how you arrange your sustain pedal so the "horizontal feet keep my pedals from moving around." In my experience there is no way to place & play a sustain pedal normally with the Apex leg there. If you play seated you can put the pedal in front of it, but your heel is resting on the leg. Put the pedal on the player side of the leg and it has to be angled to the side or it will rest on the leg. I do it like that, and I'm used to it but it's not exactly "normal."

 

I do agree that setup is quick, and I have no problem using one when I show up for sound check and it's already set up with my keyboard on it! BTW I know how silly it looks to have my little Roland controller on this stand!

 

 

[J. Dan]

I use the Roland DP-2 pedals, which are the little square ones. They actually work pretty well with the Apex - the back rests up against the legs and actually keep them from moving around. My swe'll pedal I put just to the right of the leg which works fine for me. Been doing it this way on and off for almost 30 years with the "off" times involving temporary experiments with standtastic, X, and V stands.

[mate stubb]

It has been over 6 months since my last post in this thread.

 

[theGman]

Slightly OT:

I have a Spider Pro; is there anything the Apex does better?

 

The reason I ask is that I would like to buy a 2nd 1-tier stand for 1 keyboard gigs, and was thinking of the smaller Spider Mini? or whatever, or finding a cheap used Pro and just cutting it down shorter to make my own little Spidee.

 

This would be a good time to consider buying an Apex 48 for a 2 tier, but the lack of pedal space and the non-tilting of the top level, both of which are already done on the Spider...you see what I mean.

 

Thanks, Paul

[MojoGuyPan]

The Apex doesn't really do anything better than the Spider other than cost half as much and is the original.

 

Functionally the same with Apex being slightly cooler and with more street cred cache. Both have the mic boom attachment which if you sing back up, is dynamite. Your whole set up is clean.

 

The Spider is a little more stable in thick carpet at home because it has feet that dig in whereas the Apex is flat, but I've never had a gig where I was drowning knee deep in shag. That hotel ballroom carpet is the same as wood or concrete flooring to the Apex.

 

If you've already got the more expensive pretender, there is no reason to get the Apex. if you have a 642 with a cracked weld go directly to Apex and ask them to hook you up with the Ultimate.

 

The only negative is if you fashion yourself as some sort of guitar player and want a load of effects pedals downtown. There just isn't the room. An expression pedal and a sustain pedal, no problemo. Some massive pedalboard with power supplies, your SOL my friend.

[Stokely]

The spider pro is the best keyboard stand I've ever had and it's not close. It may not be sturdy enough for some people but I'm not really heavy-handed. Yes, it was $250 (silver one is 100 cheaper than the black for some reason) but it has been worth it. My old z stand was great but it was a bear to move; the spider pro has no extra parts, folds up into what looks like a Men in Black gun and goes into a bag. I get more compliments on it from people than I ever did for any of my keyboards so that's an extra perk

 

The only negative I have on it is that the mic stand adapter design isn't done well. I replaced the plastic adapter with a metal one, but it still has a tendency to allow the adapter to be "picked up" by the boom, which then can cause the bolt to fall down inside the stand. This happened to me several times, and I had to unscrew all 7 of the top screws, turn the thing upside down and let the bolt fall out (after taking my keyboards off of course). My solution (hopefully) is duct tape on the underside of the bolt holding it to the top, so that if the adapter gets taken away (which I try not to do) it will at least stay poking out of the hole. Whew, lots of OT detail there, sorry about that

[MotiDave]

some have pedal problems, i think its those with elaborate pedal boards etc - not me, i'm the opposite. I use just a sustain and latch switch pedal, no board or box needed. With AX48, the horizontal feet keep my pedals from moving around without gaff taping them down - it allows me to move my sustain a few inches left or right to position for songs i'm in high registers vs low registers. with the X - i had to pick one best spot and tape them down. thats another plus for me with AX48 vs X.

I understand US has updated the Apex design. I have v1. I'm curious to know how you arrange your sustain pedal so the "horizontal feet keep my pedals from moving around." In my experience there is no way to place & play a sustain pedal normally with the Apex leg there. If you play seated you can put the pedal in front of it, but your heel is resting on the leg. Put the pedal on the player side of the leg and it has to be angled to the side or it will rest on the leg. I do it like that, and I'm used to it but it's not exactly "normal."

 

I do agree that setup is quick, and I have no problem using one when I show up for sound check and it's already set up with my keyboard on it! BTW I know how silly it looks to have my little Roland controller on this stand!

 

 

I just point it at me, slightly off perpendicular at about 75%, like you have you expression pedal, except right of center line so i can use my right foot. Front/top/forward end (away from pedal is against the foot bar that keeps it from moving forward, which is the direction id move it if it were not constrained by that barrier. Dont slide sideways as most of the force is in the straight axis. I put my latch switch to the left of it to do some in-song patch switching (also use my right foot for that). I dont know how guys do two-footed pedaling if they are standing lol.

[Bobby Simons]

FWIW I wouldn't trust an Invisible Stand with a backline Casio let alone my own gear. That one is a solution in search of a problem.

 

You either never owned one, or were assembling it incorrectly. I used to put my KX88 (62.8 lbs) on it, as solid as a rock.

[Bobby Simons]

BTW, the stuff in my profile pic is sitting on a single double-X stand.

 

rig

[kenheeter]

The more weight I put on my Invisible stand, the sturdier it gets.

[Barryjam]

BTW, the stuff in my profile pic is sitting on a single double-X stand.

 

rig

 

Wow, just Wow. Can you say some more about how all those boards are secured on the top tier? I'm sure you would get some jokes about "most of us only lose 2 keyboards when the X-stand fails."

[Bobby Simons]

I use this stuff, liberally. It also comes in black. Like Velcro but plastic, both sides the same. Literally difficult to separate. Im reasonably certain that if you inverted the stand, the Alesis might be the only board to fall off. The whole goal was to get numerous keyboards in closest possible proximity to each other, not unlike the big pipe organs. Thats a home setup - the gig rig is what you see minus the two white iRigs.

 

fasteners

[Reezekeys]

I'll second those fasteners. I used them on an external SSD I had inside my SKB Studio Flyer case. The hooks & loops held more than the adhesive that stuck them to my SSD so when I tried to remove the SSD the fasteners stayed attached but peeled off the drive!

[flatfender]

some have pedal problems, i think its those with elaborate pedal boards etc - not me, i'm the opposite. I use just a sustain and latch switch pedal, no board or box needed. With AX48, the horizontal feet keep my pedals from moving around without gaff taping them down - it allows me to move my sustain a few inches left or right to position for songs i'm in high registers vs low registers. with the X - i had to pick one best spot and tape them down. thats another plus for me with AX48 vs X.

I understand US has updated the Apex design. I have v1. I'm curious to know how you arrange your sustain pedal so the "horizontal feet keep my pedals from moving around." In my experience there is no way to place & play a sustain pedal normally with the Apex leg there. If you play seated you can put the pedal in front of it, but your heel is resting on the leg. Put the pedal on the player side of the leg and it has to be angled to the side or it will rest on the leg. I do it like that, and I'm used to it but it's not exactly "normal."

 

I do agree that setup is quick, and I have no problem using one when I show up for sound check and it's already set up with my keyboard on it! BTW I know how silly it looks to have my little Roland controller on this stand!

 

 

 

I built a couple of pedal boards very similar to what Rick Wakeman uses. Here's a screen capture from his youtube rig video he did on his most recent tour.

 

 

I used a 10" X 12" piece of 1/2" plywood, a 10" piece of 2" X 2" lumber, black spray paint and some strips of stair grip I bought at the hardware store for each one. They fit in my cable box.