electricians: running a UPS off an extension cord

[zephonic]

I just received my APC Back-UPS Pro 1000 and am reading the installation guide, which explicitly states:

 

Connect the UPS power cable directly to a wall outlet. Do not use surge protectors or extension cords.

 

Problem is, the only wall outlet available is about 8' high, and the APC's power cord won't reach it.

 

I have a long extension cord (>20') rated at 1650W/13A with three outlets on it, no surge protector. Originally, the plan was to connect the UPS to that, and have my two lamps (60W each) of the other two sockets. If necessary, I could use the extension cord exclusively for the UPS and connect the lamps to one of its outputs, but I'm not enthusiastic about it.

 

Reason I got the UPS in the first place was noise on the power lines that crept into my audio chain, so clean power was a bigger consideration than battery backup. I suspect the noise may be caused by the lamps, which is why I'd like to keep them separate.

 

But the main question is, how would connecting the UPS to the extension cord affect its operation? I don't quite understand that.

 

Thanks.

[Michael Wright]

Current draw/line loss. AC wiring for a 15 amp circuit, at least here in Canada is usually 14/3 (I believe hot, neutral, bare ground) solid wire. Most run of the mill extension cords are only 16 gauge stranded. I re-arranged the studio and ran a new dedicated circuit to be able to plug the ups directly into it, to avoid an extension cord. Check your local code, and consult an electrician. You will further clean-up power, with that dedicated circuit back to the panel. Again, consult a pro if you have to.

[t9cstudio]

I'd put it on a separate ext cord with the same size wire, probably 14ga and just long enough to reach the outlet from where you want to put the ups.

[MoodyBluesKeys]

If you go somewhere like Lowes, they carry extension cords in various lengths with larger wiring than the usual household extension. Such are typically used for window air conditioner extension and for contractors. Household "extension cords" are usually 16 gauge or even smaller, and are typically only rated for 10 amps or less. They have too much voltage drop and potential heating.

 

Back when I had a motor home, I made up a custom 100' extension cable with #6 wire, worked great for the 30 amp wiring to the MH.

 

If you get a moderate length cord that is 12/3 (three wires of number 12 gauge) that is rated for a continuous 20 amp load. There will still be some loss, but it will be minimal. The wiring inside the wall is normally 12 ga (20a) or even 14 ga (15a).

[SteveVasil]

The wiring in a house is essentially an extension cord to the circuit breaker panel. The only potential problem is undersized conductors of an extension cord or a less than tight connection in a plug. If you'd like to avoid an extension cord, you might install a small shelf to hold the UPS?

[RABid]

As others have said, you will be fine with a heavy duty extension cord. If you don't want the standard orange color, you can usually find green in the lawn department, heavy enough for electric mowers and trimmers. Always avoid chaining surge protection, and never chain batteries. One thing many people don't realize is you should not plug a battery operated laptop into a UPS.

[AnotherScott]

One thing many people don't realize is you should not plug a battery operated laptop into a UPS.

What's this about? The main time I use my UPS is when I plug in/charge my battery-powered devices (incl.laptop) when a storm knocks the power out. How is plugging into the UPS different from normally plugging into the wall?

[RABid]

Plugging a UPS into a surge protector can cause it to operate off of battery at times when it should be passing current. Daisy chaining surge protectors can also delay suppression time if a surge hits. General consensus is you don't plug a UPS into a UPS. Articles I have read state several factors from the sine wave generated by the first UPS can cause the second UPS to think there is an electrical problem and operate off of battery when it is not necessary, to a loop can be created where the batteries try to charge each other and use up charge cycles. Many manufacturers of rechargeable batteries warn about connecting them to a UPS. A laptop is a rechargeable battery with various levels of UPS features built in. If you have a UPS for other peripherals, the laptop should be plugged into a bypass/surge only outlet of the UPS.

[Threadslayer]

Move the outlet?

[Stokely]

Good info in this thread, appreciate it.

[AnotherScott]

A laptop is a rechargeable battery with various levels of UPS features built in. If you have a UPS for other peripherals, the laptop should be plugged into a bypass/surge only outlet of the UPS.

Sorry to say I'm not really following. You're never actually plugging your laptop's battery directly into the UPS (or the wall)... the power adapter for the laptop sits between the voltage source and the laptop's battery, turning 110 volt AC into low voltage DC. I still can't see why the laptop (phone, iPad, whatever) would be affected by whether the adapter were plugged into a UPS vs. being plugged into the wall.

[Polychrest]

Charging a laptop or any other device via a pure sine wave output UPS should be problem-free. Using a modified sine wave UPS apparently risks the long-term health of most chargers.

[AnotherScott]

Charging a laptop or any other device via a pure sine wave output UPS should be problem-free. Using a modified sine wave UPS apparently risks the long-term health of most chargers.

Ah, so it's a potential issue for the chargers (AC adapters), rather than for the devices themselves (laptops/phones/tablets). Interesting. I wonder what determines whether a charger is fussy about this, and if this has any impact on the advisability of connecting certain wall wart keyboards and ancillary devices to a UPS.

[MoodyBluesKeys]

I do wind up plugging notebooks into UPS devices, but my assumption is that they will almost always be running from the commercial sine wave AC, since I don't expect the UPS to be running much of the time.

Besides, if a power failure lasts more than a very few minutes, it is likely that I will have shut down (or had the UPS through a USB connection automatically shut down) the computer.

So far, never a power supply problem. After all, in a musical context, my power amps/speakers are not going to be plugged into the UPS anyhow, they draw too much current (for any UPS that I would buy, must less transport around).

[Ulf]

I do wind up plugging notebooks into UPS devices, but my assumption is that they will almost always be running from the commercial sine wave AC, since I don't expect the UPS to be running much of the time.

 

Yes, this must be a really common UPS use case these days.

[zephonic]

Thanks everybody for chiming in. I'm learning.

 

I had the exact same setup at the old house, and heard no noise on my cans. I believe the noise I hear now is actually coming from the CPU as it is not constant.

I'm simply going for process of elimination, trying to create separate circuits for lighting and audio being step one.

[zephonic]

So the UPS does not solve my hum problem. Could it be bad power coming in? Should I have an electrician come in to install a new outlet?

 

I think I'll return the UPS.

 

 

[Michael Wright]

Hard to say. Having a receptacle that runs back to its own breaker at the panel, will eliminate the possibility of anything else contaminating the power from that point forward. Are you powering everything through the ups? Does that unit have a red indicator light on the back for incorrect line wiring coming in? The 1500 will indicate if a ground is missing. I would also ensure the plug itself is wired correctly, and not reversed.

[zephonic]

The UPS indicates everything is fine.

 

After some more detective work I have identified the culprit:

 

It is the USB port on my Fantom X7. Weird, as I don't recall it humming at the old house. Even with the power off, the USB connection itself will induce a ground loop, but the noise intensifies when I power it on.

 

To think I blew $200 on a UPS and assorted cables and power strips only to find out it is something like this...

 

How can I solve this particular problem, though?

 

[Michael Wright]

I had a bit of usb noise before I moved the studio within the house. I do run trs everywhere I can. Things are silent here now. Not sure why it went away after the move. I am sure someone here can help. As far as wasting money on the UPS, losing power here is not an uncommon event, and I am happy that I can now keep working/save and power the studio down safely.

[zephonic]

I'm looking at USB ground lifts but they are pricey. Anybody have any experience with these?

 

As for the UPS, I guess there is worse things to blow cash on, but that money could have gone a long way towards KeyScape...or something else desirable...

[Synthaholic]

If I throw away a broken microwave or other appliance I always cut off the power cord. They are usually 14/3 or even 12/3. Slap on a female end and you have a nice 3 foot extension. Very handy to have around.

[zephonic]

I found another source of hum, the Nord Piano's unbalanced outputs. Oh my...

At least its USB connection is quiet, so it works fine as a controller.

Odd how the Fantom is exactly the opposite: noisy USB, but the outputs are clean.

 

[mate stubb]

Your power sucks.

[Delaware Dave]

I found another source of hum, the Nord Piano's unbalanced outputs. Oh my...

My PC3 would produce a low hum when using unbalanced outputs (TS). As soon as I switched to balanced outputs (TRS) the hum disappeared. The PC3 accepts TS or TRS 1/4" plugs. If the Nord accepts TRS then use TRS, if not, plug the TS plug coming out of Nord into a direct box using the ground lift, then XLR out to the mixer or speaker, it will do the same thing from a noise perspective. The only difference is that TRS output typically emits a +4db output where the XLR plug will emit a -10db, meaning neither one should emit any noise but the TRS will be a hotter output than the XLR.

[MotiDave]

I do wind up plugging notebooks into UPS devices, but my assumption is that they will almost always be running from the commercial sine wave AC, since I don't expect the UPS to be running much of the time.

Besides, if a power failure lasts more than a very few minutes, it is likely that I will have shut down (or had the UPS through a USB connection automatically shut down) the computer.

So far, never a power supply problem. After all, in a musical context, my power amps/speakers are not going to be plugged into the UPS anyhow, they draw too much current (for any UPS that I would buy, must less transport around).

 

Don't laptops er have their own internal "UPS" - the internal battery? seems redundant to plug a laptop into a UPS. maybe i'm missing a nuance?

 

a surge protector ... different discussion.

[Synthaholic]

Your power sucks.

 

 

http://i.imgur.com/4i6Ckte.gif I read this and thought of this:

 

[MoodyBluesKeys]

Laptops would seem to be redundant for UPS use, and SHOULD be. However, I have run into units that seem to have a brief disconnect when switching from external power to internal power. Most don't have the problem, but some can create problems.

 

Also, I typically use some of the smaller APC UPS units, which generally have 3 or 4 connections on one side that are battery protected, and 3 or 4 connections on the other side that are just surge protected. Since the units that I use are typically from 300 to 550 va (or roughly 200 to 400 watt) for a 10 minute run-time, I can not plug in anything with a high power drain, like powered PA.

 

I service computer equipment in my business. The time that you REALLY don't want to lose power is when flashing a BIOS before it finishes - bricks the computer or other device.