OT: What you should know about dishonest people

[Song80s]

I understand we have a society where much discourse amounts to baseless assertions.

 

Good thing we're on a keyboard forum, where, if necessary, assertions can still be made with LH base.

 

Baseless Assertion is a name for a duo- just vocals and piano

[Lindaru]

Here is my observation;

 

Dishonest people think everyone is dishonest. Thats how they might rationalize their habitual behavior.

 

I think we tend to view others through the filters of ourselves. This may very well be true. Dishonesty may be that "do unto others *before* they do unto you" mind set.

 

I agree with much of what has already been said, too, about how the brain functions given certain stimuli and situations; about how we tend to pin certain types of behavior on geo-location and customs for that region; and even consider the fast paced times we live in that certain instant judgements about people (the cover and not the book) are called for.

 

White lies? I tend to also not want to blatantly hurt people. I have a different way of not saying it as a lie but rather "tell them the truth, but you do not have to tell them the *whole* truth".

 

 

[Lindaru]

Here is a little word play that was inspired by the mental image of my spinner bees which had to come in for the winter and trying to find good places to put them since they do not have any kind of base to set them on. (I really can tell when I am tired because I analogize the weirdest things), but here goes.

 

A baseless assertion cannot stand unless the point is driven into the ground.

 

 

[timwat]

Everyone has a worldview, a set of presuppositions and a metanarrative (their internal big story of how the world is supposed to work).

 

Everyone makes sense to themselves.

 

Therefore, until demonstrated otherwise, everyone presumes others think like they do. "Demonstrated otherwise" typically requires listening to the other person's reasons with as little prejudice as humanly possible. This is difficult because of worldview, presuppositions and meta narrative (see above).

 

What I think has changed dramatically is our willingness to try to listen to the other person's reasons with as little prejudice as humanly possible.

 

And agreed, the greatest loss for the liar - he loses the ability to take anyone at their word.

[Song80s]

Here is my observation;

 

Dishonest people think everyone is dishonest. Thats how they might rationalize their habitual behavior.

 

I think we tend to view others through the filters of ourselves. This may very well be true. Dishonesty may be that "do unto others *before* they do unto you" mind set.

 

 

 

That is somewhat true. We are a product of our belief system.

 

But our beliefs hopefully evolve, adapt, improve. IOW, I don't necessarily believe that we have to be a 'fixed set' of beliefs.

[Song80s]

 

A baseless assertion cannot stand unless the point is driven into the ground.

 

 

That is very clever. I am going to borrow your phrase. Is it royalty free ?

[Song80s]

Everyone has a worldview, a set of presuppositions and a metanarrative (their internal big story of how the world is supposed to work).

 

1)Everyone makes sense to themselves.

 

2)Therefore, until demonstrated otherwise, everyone presumes others think like they do. "Demonstrated otherwise" typically requires listening to the other person's reasons with as little prejudice as humanly possible. This is difficult because of worldview, presuppositions and meta narrative (see above).

 

3)What I think has changed dramatically is our willingness to try to listen to the other person's reasons with as little prejudice as humanly possible.

 

And agreed, the greatest loss for the liar - he loses the ability to take anyone at their word.

 

1) emphatically yes.

 

2) But our beliefs hopefully evolve, adapt, improve. IOW, I don't necessarily believe that we have to be a 'fixed set' of beliefs. I see you are creating a context for exception or change.

 

3) emphatically yes. More folks should adopt this. Many of us listen mostly to be heard just later. We should listen and observe without prejudice. Things are not as they instantly appear. We should give some time for the whole picture and reflect on that.

Use our judgement and turn down our 'inner filter ' as the situation warrants.

[Threadslayer]

 

A baseless assertion cannot stand unless the point is driven into the ground.

 

 

I think I would phrase it thus:

A baseless assertion cannot stand even if the point is driven into the ground.

[bill bosco]

actually , in today's world , there has been much evidence to the

contrary , it's more like , if you say a lie long enough ,

it gets believed as truth

[Mark Schmieder]

There's a famous quote from Mark Twain that I throw at people when they start discussing what "story" they are thinking of telling someone in order to avoid "uncomfortable" facts:

 

"It is better to tell the truth, lest you forget what you said".

[Synthoid]

"It is better to tell the truth, lest you forget what you said".

 

 

[Threadslayer]

There's a famous quote from Mark Twain that I throw at people when they start discussing what "story" they are thinking of telling someone in order to avoid "uncomfortable" facts:

 

"It is better to tell the truth, lest you forget what you said".

A very quotable fellow. One I like is "It is better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak out and remove all doubt*."

 

*Also attributed to Abraham Lincoln, George Elliot and a few others, but I'm a Twain man myself.

[Jazz+]

" Having good judgment, making accurate predictions, making good decisions, is mostly about which mindset you're in."

(Do you reason like a soldier or do you reason like a scout?)

Why you think you're right even if you're wrong

 

[cphollis]

Jeez, guys, heavy intellectual content on a keyboard forum

 

That being said, it becomes important to learn to deal with other people. My wife (love her!) decided to get an advanced psychology degree later in life.

 

Well, that meant that I had to do the same, since there was nothing else to talk about at the time

 

So she got her Masters in psych, and I got the junior degree.

 

What amazing insights I got into the the human condition, and how to deal with it. It changed my world view, and I'm using what I've learned in every human interaction: service people, career people, and music people.

 

All good.

 

In a world of multiple diverse personalities, we should all be armed with the same tools.

 

It matters.

[MathOfInsects]

When I was younger I knew (or thought I knew) all about everyone else, and not a thing about myself. Now that I'm older, I know (or think I know) all about myself, and not a thing about another person.

 

I was happier the first way. Ignorance is bliss.*

 

 

 

 

 

 

*I used to write notes on little scraps of paper, and collect them in a wooden box. Every decade or so I'll come across it and go through them. Right on top--no idea where I was when I wrote it--is one that says, "Ignorance is this." I always remember that when I'm dealing with an unyielding bureaucrat or listening to a presidential debate.

[Threadslayer]

Well, that meant that I had to do the same, since there was nothing else to talk about at the time

 

It sounds like you already had a pretty good handle on marital psychology even before the degree.

 

[PianoMan51]

So she got her Masters in psych, and I got the junior degree.

Too funny. At 45 I decided, for career advancement, to get an MBA. After the first semester my wife got tired of being ignored and started her own master's degree. We joked that at night folks could find us playing 'dueling hi-lighters' in bed.

[I-missRichardTee]

Jeez, guys, heavy intellectual content on a keyboard forum

 

That being said, it becomes important to learn to deal with other people. My wife (love her!) decided to get an advanced psychology degree later in life.

 

Well, that meant that I had to do the same, since there was nothing else to talk about at the time

 

So she got her Masters in psych, and I got the junior degree.

 

What amazing insights I got into the the human condition, and how to deal with it. It changed my world view, and I'm using what I've learned in every human interaction: service people, career people, and music people.

 

All good.

 

In a world of multiple diverse personalities, we should all be armed with the same tools.

 

It matters.

 

Tools such as?

[allan_evett]

Wow, great thread. So many presumptions, hastily drawn conclusions, and generalizations still rattling around my cranium. The longer I live, the more I realize how little I know.. The Cognitive Bias Codex will provide me enough study for several lifetimes....Thanks Bill !

[Song80s]

Jeez, guys, heavy intellectual content on a keyboard forum

 

That being said, it becomes important to learn to deal with other people. My wife (love her!) decided to get an advanced psychology degree later in life.

 

In a world of multiple diverse personalities, we should all be armed with the same tools.

 

It matters.

 

Tools such as?

 

hmm. I think I follow. He mentioned we need to be armed with a tool for multiple personalities.

 

Following that, we all need a multiple personality plunger

 

http://cbsnews3.cbsistatic.com/hub/i/r/2012/04/13/5717722c-a644-11e2-a3f0-029118418759/thumbnail/620x350/3ff2ae438d84722b0d7ed770eae836c8/plunger_story.jpg