Crumar Mojo 61 Review - (LONG)

[Adan]

Very cool that Crumar is still announcing on schedule, even with Italy's problems. I like that the desktop is editable from a screen, that's an unexpected surprise.

 

Not sure whether either of these is in my future. Mojo 61 still fits the bill for me. But I'm still wondering about DB's hint as to a future dual-timbrality. if it's not in these products, then perhaps it's an OS update for the Mojo.

[Dave Bryce]

But I'm still wondering about DB's hint as to a future dual-timbrality. if it's not in these products, then perhaps it's an OS update for the Mojo.

It's neither, actually.

 

What I was talking about is a product called the MJU. This is a smart little box that can be a swiss-army knife for the MIDI musician: it can 'MIDIfy' just about any accessory with a TS/TRS cable. The very affordable MJU ($129 MAP USD) can be a MIDI filter, a MIDI converter, and will transform the Lower Manual for Mojo61 into a fully featured controller. MJU is powered over MIDI, and can be programmed using the Arduino IDE and with its display.

 

dB

[Delaware Dave]

Question for Dave Bryce since you are a registered sales agent: I don't see a leslie on/off switch on the desktop; can I assume that you can go into the editor and turn the leslie on or off from there, in the event either a leslie or alternative leslie sim were to be used?

[Dave Bryce]

Question for Dave Bryce since you are a registered sales agent: I don't see a leslie on/off switch on the desktop; can I assume that you can go into the editor and turn the leslie on or off from there, in the event either a leslie or alternative leslie sim were to be used?

I don't have one, and I've only seen the images that you've seen......but I imagine there's a way to use something like a footswitch.

 

dB

[hirsute]

Received my new Mojo 61 today! Having fun playing around with it and learning the board. I'm sure I'll have a bunch of questions, but one has come up already:

 

When I power down the board there's a loud pop in my amp. Volume level on the board doesn't matter, and the amp doesn't pop when I power down other boards, so it's definitely something about this board. Loud pop is also when I power the board on when it's plugged in to my amp. Is this "normal" behavior for the 61? I can get around it by shutting my amp off before I power down, but that's kind of lame.

[mate stubb]

DON'T DO THAT!

 

Seriously - since the dawn of time, the rule has always been: amp turns on LAST, and amp turns off FIRST, to prevent the very pops you describe. Just because some gear happens to not pop, never assume all gear doesn't.

 

You can blow speakers and ears otherwise.

[hirsute]

Well shoot, I'm glad I asked! This is the first board I've had that's done this so I never questioned it. Thanks for setting me straight--I now have a new start up and shut down order.

[mate stubb]

Glad to help. Back in the old days everything popped, so you got trained pretty fast.

[Old No7]

I now have a new start up and shut down order.

 

Glad to help. Back in the old days everything popped, so you got trained pretty fast.

 

Yup, back in the day we quickly learned amps were always...

 

O L O F

 

On Last -- Off First

 

Old No7

[Mike Munro]

I see folks are using small midi controllers like Behringer's x-touch mini to control the clavinet filters. Will the secondary drawbar unit D9U accomplish the same thing if the CC numbers for the clavinet filters are set the same as the lower drawbars?

[hirsute]

Quick question about cases. Do you like the Crumar soft bag for the 61, or something else? Considering a hard case for it but I'm undecided. Anyone have the SKB 3i-4217 for it, or something else they like?

[Stokely]

Same goes for PA gear (powered speakers have amps of course). Our guitarist--who owns the PA--asked me at a gig "which one do you turn off first again?", talking about the console and the main speakers. I'm thinking, how many gigs have we been using your PA again?

 

Mute the PA and monitors before disconnecting mics/turning off gear;

turn off the main speakers and monitors

turn off mixer/turn off gear (probably in that order to avoid doing anything to the mixer potentially)

[Mitch Towne]

Quick question about cases. Do you like the Crumar soft bag for the 61, or something else? Considering a hard case for it but I'm undecided. Anyone have the SKB 3i-4217 for it, or something else they like?

 

I love the soft cases that Crumar uses.

[Noah DC]

I use the Mono M80 for my Mojo 61. Very solid durable case. Fits tightly but it works fine if you"re careful sipping around the corners.

[Jazz+]

I use the $50 Gator 61-Note Economy Keyboard padded Gig Bag

[mate stubb]

I use the Mono M80 for my Mojo 61. Very solid durable case. Fits tightly but it works fine if you"re careful sipping around the corners.

 

Me too. Got a small fabric rip after 2-3 years hard use but haven't lost a zipper yet.

[cjfox]

New Mojo 61 owner here. I see there have been a few posts about what to use for a volume pedal, and I've figured out some interesting stuff. I have a Nord electro and various Korg and Roland synths, and a wide assortment of pedals, both volume and expression. My favorites are a full size Ernie Ball volume pedal with the switch and a Boss 500L. I like the a substantial pedal that won't slip around under my foot, and remains in the same place as I left it. I also like the leslie speed switch on the pedal, as I hate interrupting what my left hand is doing to switch speeds. The info previously shared is that the Mojo works with a standard 10k expression pedal, or a 50k Yamaha pedal. I thought no problem, and tried a cheap maudio expression pedal (10k lin pot). Not very good! no smooth range jumpy response etc. I then tried the expression side of the the Boss 500l, a more expensive pedal. Same problem. I then tried the Volume side of the Boss pedal, a 25K log scale pot. Much better. Another pedal that worked great was an Ernie Ball stereo low impedance pedal, once again a 25K log pot. I have now rewired a mono Ernie Ball pedal with a 25k log pot and a switch, and I am happy. My Nord has a menu item to change response to match a variety of volume pedals, now I can use the pedal with either. Hope someone finds this useful.

[cjfox]

The bottom line is use a log scale pot not linear, as one would assume an expression pedal would use.

[Mike Munro]

A question for folks with close ties to Crumar? Is there an upgrade coming that'll allow the lower manual (of the M61) to be able to play the piano voices? I'm not talking about dual timbral. Just when I switch to piano, I'd like the lower manual to work too. I just think it would be more comfortable to play piano on the lower manual.

[Mitch Towne]

A question for folks with close ties to Crumar? Is there an upgrade coming that'll allow the lower manual (of the M61) to be able to play the piano voices? I'm not talking about dual timbral. Just when I switch to piano, I'd like the lower manual to work too. I just think it would be more comfortable to play piano on the lower manual.

 

Not that I"m aware of.

[OB Dave]

The bottom line is use a log scale pot not linear, as one would assume an expression pedal would use.

This would not be a correct assumption, but it's necessary to understand the nature of the signal passing through that pot.

 

Volume and expression pedals that pass *audio* universally would be log scale pots, because that's how we perceive the volume of audio signals. I don't know of a single digital keyboard whose expression pedal jacks pass audio. Instead, these pedals are used with DC control voltages, and anything that does that will use a linear pot because of the limited resolution of the ADC converters used to read those voltages.

 

Tangentially related: there seems to be a persistent rumor that the Yamaha FC-7 uses a log potentiometer, and that isn't true. I took apart an FC-7 and wrote about it here. When people have trouble with an FC-7 it's usually because Yamaha and Roland pedals use different pinouts to the TRS plug.

[cjfox]

Just doing what my ear told me was right. All my other equipment works with the standard 10k linear pot expression pedal, but for some reason, the Mojo works better with the log pot.

[Delaware Dave]

What pedal are you using? Maybe you perceive the pedal as having a log pot but it might, in fact, have a linear pot.

[Markyboard]

Just doing what my ear told me was right. All my other equipment works with the standard 10k linear pot expression pedal, but for some reason, the Mojo works better with the log pot.

 

 

Did you try the polarity switch on the M-audio pedal in both positions (assuming it has one)?

[cjfox]

I guess I have to make a post regarding all things everyone assumes I'm doing wrong. Believe me, I was just trying to help anyone who is trying to figure out what will work without having a genuine crumar pedal. My final choice for a good sounding smooth volume pedal is an Ernie Ball 25k log pot pedal, the full size stereo one, but I don't use it for stereo audio. It's wired with the cable that goes from two TS plugs to the TRS plug that goes into the Mojo. I know it's a log pot because I ordered it, and installed it myself. The Maudio pedal does not have a smooth response. and this is with the correct polarity setting. With the polarity wrong the Mojo will not produce a pleasing change in volume. I tried to give all the info initially, but apparently I was not clear, because the assumption is I must be doing something wrong.

[Delaware Dave]

if you go to the crumar site their expression pedal has a 10k pot. that is a given, what is unknown is if the pot is linear or log. write Crumar and ask them. then the only remaining question is the wiring of the wiper, is it to the tip or the ring? easily found out by using an adapter. they are the only variables, other than the sweep length. the only pedal that comes close in sweep length is the FC7, which is a 50k pot, followed by a Roland EV-7, which happens to use a 10k pot (same as the Crumar pedal). My EV-7 works very much like my hammond pedal on my B3 and using MIDI scope on my PC3 has a smooth 0-127 transition.

[Markyboard]

Hi cjfox-

 

Just because some of us are asking questions doesn"t imply that we assume you must be doing something wrong. Mostly we"re trying to gather factual information and observables to understand why things work or don"t work. A few of us have been researching and studying pedal compatability for a while now. We have a pretty good handle on most of the pedals out there but occasionally something pops up that"s new.

 

OB Dave"s link shows the FC-7 to be using an 'oddball' potentiometer; one that many of us (self included) made wrong assumptions about for years before he ripped the thing apart and tested. The Alesis Andromeda has a strange pedal interface which I ended up adding a simple circuit to accommodate using just about any pedal.

 

Your Crumar/ Ernie Ball experience may be revealing another oddball pedal interface. Some of us would like to understand it better. I for one hope you"re willing to share your knowledge. That"s all.

[NTL2009]

QUESTION/OBSERVATION on the Mojo61 HOST (TYPE A) USB port:

 

As I mentioned earlier, I've plugged a Korg NanoKontrol2 into the Mojo61 HOST (TYPE A) USB port, and it works fine to change Continuous Controllers (use the Web Editor to assign a CC# to access other parameters, and config the NanoKontrol2 to match).

 

I experimented some more, using a < $4 Arduino Leonardo clone (Pro-Micro - the same one Crumar uses in the D9U drawbar controller), and also connecting to a computer (with two USB-MIDI>DIN-MIDI adapters, back-to-back), and it seems the Mojo61 does not send any info at all over the HOST (TYPE A) USB port. But it does send all internal changes (notes and CC# and PC#) over the ' TYPE B' ('client'?) port. This seems odd to me, why the difference? Or am I doing something wrong - do I need to tell the Mojo61 to transmit over the USB HOST?

 

I ask because it looks like I can pretty easily and cheaply use these cheap Arduino controllers not only to provide access to things that aren't on the front panel (like I did with the NanoKontrol2 - change Effects on the fly, change the pickups and filters on the Clav, etc), but also to store presets for all the instruments, and probably even to optionally include settings not normally stored with presets (Perc, Drive, Reverb, Rot, C/V, , etc). But to make these presets editable from the Mojo61, I'd need to be able to read the buttons, knobs, and drawbars as they are set, so I can store them.

 

It should be very simple to add this capability to the D9U, or build a separate box (w/o drawbars) - in the Arduino world, there are displays and switch readers that require just 4-5 wires (including power and ground) to an Arduino Pro-Micro (which is tiny, like .75"x1.5"), and the Pro-Micro just plugs into (and gets power from) the Mojo61 HOST USB port. Then load a program into the Pro-Micro (also pretty easy for non-techies) that I will finish writing , and that's it.

 

If I can't get CC#'s out of the HOST USB port, I'd could either add a MIDI-IN to connect to the MIDI-DIN OUT port, or just leave the presets defined by the program (easily editable by a non-techie), which is still easier than re-wiring the panel in a real B3. FYI - the Arduino can't connect to the Mojo61 USB-"B" port, that requires the Arduino to be a HOST, and that is beyond what these controllers can support.

 

If no one knows, I can try contacting Guido at Crumar.

 

Anyway, if there is any interest in this project, I could start a new thread, or maybe there is a better place for it? The Crumar D9U is open source, but I have not found any discussions of mods to the code or hardware on the web.

[Jazz+]

Is it possible for Crumar to improve the Rotary Sim or the Drive on the Mojo 61? I'm not complaining, I am just wondering if it has reached its optimum potential.

 

I will complain that I feel a spongy sluggishness in the Acoustic Piano response. My $150 Casio CT-X700 Acoustic Piano responds like a Steinway in comparison.

[Adan]

 

I will complain that I feel a spongy sluggishness in the Acoustic Piano response. My $150 Casio CT-X700 Acoustic Piano responds like a Steinway in comparison.

 

AP is still the achilles heel of the Mojo, but Guido & Co. are well aware of that. But I'm with Jazz+ in feeling it's not so much the sound as the latency that makes it hard to use. If they could just improve the latency, I'd be much happier.