Yamaha FC7 before and after Ashby Solutions

[EscapeRocks]

Most of you know the FC7 pedal can be not compatible with certain boards, like many in the Roland line, my FA-08 to name one.

 

I knew about the Ashby Solutions adapter, but I was in a hurry one day so I cobbled together some inelegant solutions from my local GC. Basically a Female to two male Y adapter that splits out tip and ring, and the reverse, male to two female Y adapter.

 

I finally got off my lazy butt and ordered the Ashby adapter.

Much nicer. Works perfectly. No more extra cables hanging off the back.

The Hosa Y cables kept coming apart. The Ashby connection is solid.

 

Hosa adapters with FC7

http://i253.photobucket.com/albums/hh58/escaperocks1/FC7%201_zpsoudaoaai.jpg

 

Ashby adapter with FC7

http://i253.photobucket.com/albums/hh58/escaperocks1/FC7%202_zpscpk0yboq.jpg

 

Works great, as I said, and well worth the little money, especially if you don't want to cut into or unsolder/re-solder.

 

ps. The price of the Ashby was less than the price of the two Hosa Y cables

[Doerfler]

Most of you know the FC7 pedal can be not compatible with certain boards,

I finally got off my lazy butt and ordered the Ashby adapter.

Much nicer. Works perfectly.

 

Bruce does quality work.

[Kawai James]

Good stuff, thanks for the info.

 

Am I correct in thinking that the adaptor will also work the other way around? In other words allow Roland/Boss expression pedals to be used with Yamaha, Kawai, and other gear that pedal connector wired differently?

 

EDIT, yes it does.

 

It converts a Roland or Fatar pedal to work with a Yamaha keyboard or multi-effect.

 

Nice!

 

Cheers,

James

x

[TechEverlasting]

Good stuff, thanks for the info.

 

Am I correct in thinking that the adaptor will also work the other way around?

 

Yes, it just switches the polarity. I'm not sure why I'd want to plug an Roland EV-5 into a Yamaha board, but this thing makes it possible.

[TommyS]

Always a pleasure to deal with Bruce. Top notch stuff.

[Kawai James]

Yes, it just switches the polarity.

 

I believe there is a little more to it than that.

 

The TRS connector of Roland/Boss expression pedals is wired as follows:

 

Between Tip and Sleeve: detect resistor value.
Between Ring and Sleeve: total resistance.

 

The TRS connector of Yamaha expression pedals is wired as follows:

 

Between Tip and Sleeve: total resistance.
Between Ring and Sleeve: detect resistor value (by voltage).

 

 

I'm not sure why I'd want to plug an Roland EV-5 into a Yamaha board, but this thing makes it possible.

 

Well, the Roland/Boss pedals are still quite popular and readily available.

 

Cheers,

James

x

[mate stubb]

Yes, it just switches the polarity.

 

I believe there is a little more to it than that.

 

Nope. It switches tip and ring on one end, that's all.

[Kawai James]

It switches tip and ring on one end...

 

Correct.

[J. Dan]

Good stuff, thanks for the info.

 

Am I correct in thinking that the adaptor will also work the other way around?

 

Yes, it just switches the polarity. I'm not sure why I'd want to plug an Roland EV-5 into a Yamaha board, but this thing makes it possible.

 

Pet peeve, whether expression pedals or sustain pedals. It's not polarity.

 

For sustain, it's N.O. vs N.C. For swell it's which wire is connected to the wiper of the pot.

 

Not polarity. At all. Period.

[Reezekeys]

This should be a sticky somewhere. My solution was in this post. Same as David's but RCAs instead of phone plugs & jacks so not quite as bulky. The bandleader of the group I tour with has a problem with this contraption hanging off my Roland board and I don't blame him so I'll probably grab that Ashby adapter. I've been bringing my A800 Pro on the road but will not bring my expression pedal (it's the M-Audio and won't survive travel in the "odds & ends" duffel bag)! All I get are Yam pedals.

 

Dave - have you noticed that the taper on the FC7 is not like the Roland pedal? Seems like it's linear, while the Roland's is log. Makes playing organ difficult, for me anyway.

[CaptainUnderpant]

The FC7 Pedal not on a Yamaha is pretty much useless because the Non Linearity of the pedal makes it complete crap.

 

With the Ashby Solutions it is Straight as an arrow in terms of its response curve. This is the biggest advantage for me using it with the Midi Expression 1/4" to USB midi adapter. Even though the Midi Expression USB hub could modify the curve, the Yamaha was just to touchy even software adjusted.

 

Now it is a Great pedal

[WesG]

Are you saying there's more in that adapter than wires?

[hardware]

I bought 4 of them and they make FC7s and my new favorite FCV 100s work with the calibration on the Physis K4.

My EV-5s do not need the adapters, but I prefer large pedals.

Just learned about these a month ago, never needed them until recently.

Sure glad he makes these.

 

http://s27.postimg.org/h0vu4niqb/IMG_0585.jpg

image hosting 15mb

[TechEverlasting]

Pet peeve, whether expression pedals or sustain pedals. It's not polarity.

 

For sustain, it's N.O. vs N.C. For swell it's which wire is connected to the wiper of the pot.

 

Not polarity. At all. Period.

 

I've been hearing the term "polarity" used in reference to sustain and volume pedals for my entire career. At some point a word takes on the meaning commonly attributed to it.

 

The next time someone asks me why all the notes on their digital piano keep ringing until they press down the sustain pedal I will still tell them they need a sustain pedal with the opposite polarity, since this is most likely to get them what they need when they go into a music store for a replacement.

 

Nevertheless thanks for giving me some more insight into this issue.

[JeffLearman]

Are you saying there's more in that adapter than wires?

There's nothing more in the adaptor than wires. However, having the tip and ring reversed causes response that one could call nonlinear.

 

The other cause for nonlinear response is the use of an audio taper pot rather than linear taper. That's what you usually get when using a passive volume pedal and the Strymon trick. I've tried that and it's not as bad as you might think. I used a 250KOhm Ernie Ball Junior pedal. I believe I'd get better results using the 25KOhm pedal, and not the Junior. The non-Junior versions have a switch for a different response curve, and I'm curious whether that's linear, and if not, whether it'd be better or worse than the normal audio taper.

[HAMEGZ]

And to assist you in determining the linear/audio taper and sweep,some new boards(Nord) have a utility to read the foot controllers response or to adjust to the particular pedals characteristics

[Joe Muscara]

Pet peeve, whether expression pedals or sustain pedals. It's not polarity.

 

For sustain, it's N.O. vs N.C. For swell it's which wire is connected to the wiper of the pot.

 

Not polarity. At all. Period.

 

I've been hearing the term "polarity" used in reference to sustain and volume pedals for my entire career. At some point a word takes on the meaning commonly attributed to it.

I get what you're saying, but I think that's a flaw in our culture/language. The word "literally" is now starting to mean "figuratively" and some are putting it in dictionaries, I think (the built-in Apple dictionary has it right - it categorizes the new usage as informal and has an explanation along with saying "is not acceptable in formal English"). That case is just ridiculous.

 

Anyway, I agree with Dan. Also, stop calling the action a "keybed."

[Threadslayer]

 

I've been hearing the term "polarity" used in reference to sustain and volume pedals for my entire career. At some point a word takes on the meaning commonly attributed to it.

 

The next time someone asks me why all the notes on their digital piano keep ringing until they press down the sustain pedal I will still tell them they need a sustain pedal with the opposite polarity, since this is most likely to get them what they need when they go into a music store for a replacement.

Yup. With age comes wisdom. You have to learn to choose your battles. Another example of this is when I try to tell someone they have something on their face I point at the side of my face directly opposite to the smudge on their face - not my left or right cheek to represent their left or right. Works 100% of the time.

[WesG]

This is why I have given up labeling musicians as "left guitar" and "right guitar". Apparently the difference between stage left and house left is too difficult for some folks to grasp!!

[CEB]

http://f.tqn.com/y/plays/1/S/A/-/-/-/stageright01.jpg

 

or more commonly just

http://www.thedramadepartment.com/images/Stage01.gif

 

 

[dsetto]

I'm having this same conversation on the kids' soccer field.

[Joe P]

I bought 4 of them and they make FC7s and my new favorite FCV 100s work with the calibration on the Physis K4.

My EV-5s do not need the adapters, but I prefer large pedals.

Just learned about these a month ago, never needed them until recently.

Sure glad he makes these.

 

http://s27.postimg.org/h0vu4niqb/IMG_0585.jpg

image hosting 15mb

 

Hardware,

Do you use that FC5/FC7 combo for organ? FC5 for Leslie speed and FC7 for swell? If so, does that work well for you?

 

Regards,

Joe

[keyman27]

I finally got one a few months ago, for use with a FC7 and a MIDI Expression USB adapter (made by Audiofront). It works great. It's a nice way to add an expression pedal to your laptop rig when your controller doesn't have an expression jack.

[vonnor]

I always unsolder/solder these. I don't care for the 26ga wire the factory uses, so I replace the cable with rapco 22ga mic cable and wire the polarity to fit the target instrument. Lot of work but the peace of mind is worth it to me.

[EscapeRocks]

I always unsolder/solder these. I don't care for the 26ga wire the factory uses, so I replace the cable with rapco 22ga mic cable and wire the polarity to fit the target instrument. Lot of work but the peace of mind is worth it to me.

 

you and your custom pedal board.....pfffft!

 

[hardware]

Hardware,

Do you use that FC5/FC7 combo for organ? FC5 for Leslie speed and FC7 for swell? If so, does that work well for you?

 

Regards,

Joe

 

Good Eye There.

Most folks never see the details.

Works great since I am doing lots of different Hammond styles in a single Show.

 

It's an FCV-100 btw, looks like an FC7 but still needs the AshAdp. but has dual outs for simultaneous use of CV Audio for hardware synths, etc.

 

On the Physis K4 I can adjust the pedals in so many ways anything impossible is now a click away.

 

This set up is FCV-100 full/forward = selected drawbars wide open, full backward is heavy percussion solo work.

Switch can be set to Open/closed/latched/toggled and Normal, depending on the song/performance stored in the K4.

 

FWIW the other FCV-100 is lower drawbars/swell.

 

Maybe in 2017 VB3 can have separate outs for master volume (upper/lower). Already has separate MIDI Channels, can't believe this wasn't part of the original plug in, but still a great plug and for 50 bucks it's a steal.

 

Oh, and Melda MRotary and MultiBandSaturator make an incredible fun 147 emulation.

Spacestaion Vrs.3 really makes a rotary emulation come to life too. Especially the fast rotor where I really missed the air being moved around.

[Reezekeys]

To get a little back on topic, I was inspired to find out why the FC7 + adapter had such a different response than the Roland EV5. Turns out they both use linear taper pots but the Roland is 10K and the Yam is 50K.

 

I know the Yam is more rugged and costs less than the plastic Roland pedal. But using it on a Roland board via the Ashby (or homemade) adapter just feels bad to me. Just slightly pressing the pedal from a fully raised position results in a major swing in controller values. The final 3/4 of pedal throw adds very little if any.

 

When my EV5 bit the dust I bought the $29 M-Audio EXP, and after almost two years of constant use on local gigs it seems to be doing OK. It uses a 10K pot so feels just like the EV5 did.

[vonnor]

... Just slightly pressing the pedal from a fully raised position results in a major swing in controller values. The final 3/4 of pedal throw adds very little if any...

That is the symptom that indicates the need to switch tip/ring wiring (or use the adaptor we're discussing). I have wired many FC7's up in custom pedalboards for many different brands of instruments. They have all worked either smoothly and correctly, or just as you describe. If the latter, switching tip/ring connections has always corrected the problem for me. I have used FC7 with Ensoniq, Yamaha, Roland, Kurzweil, Access, Korg, Oberheim, and Hammond. (and now Fatar)

 

Edit: If you get that weird effect with the adaptor in place, try it without the adaptor. I can't remember off hand if Roland instruments need the tip/ring change or not. But in EVERY case, either the factory tip/ring wiring worked, or the tip/ring swap worked. By "worked" I mean smooth volume changes from one end of the pedal swing to the other.

 

~ vonnor

[hardware]

Why not use a controller or software for custom curve modifications....?

I have used these in Scope DSP for over a decade.

Physis K4 has them built in.

VST apps and other hardware tricks can be found on the net everywhere.

 

I guess if it's used for volume only why bother.

 

But for drawbars being ganged onto a single exp pedal, with each drawbar having separate start and target destinations, plus speed (lag processor) it really helps.

 

I only have to stomp down on an expression pedal forward or backward and the tricks then apply themselves as programmed.

No need to sit and listen using your foot/ear as a way of adding motion and dynamics.

 

The only time I even have to keep my foot on one is for wah-wah like Edgar Winters Frankenstein solo, etc.

[EscapeRocks]

... Just slightly pressing the pedal from a fully raised position results in a major swing in controller values. The final 3/4 of pedal throw adds very little if any...

That is the symptom that indicates the need to switch tip/ring wiring (or use the adaptor we're discussing). I have wired many FC7's up in custom pedalboards for many different brands of instruments. They have all worked either smoothly and correctly, or just as you describe. If the latter, switching tip/ring connections has always corrected the problem for me. I have used FC7 with Ensoniq, Yamaha, Roland, Kurzweil, Access, Korg, Oberheim, and Hammond. (and now Fatar)

 

Edit: If you get that weird effect with the adaptor in place, try it without the adaptor. I can't remember off hand if Roland instruments need the tip/ring change or not. But in EVERY case, either the factory tip/ring wiring worked, or the tip/ring swap worked. By "worked" I mean smooth volume changes from one end of the pedal swing to the other.

 

~ vonnor

 

 

On my Roland FA-08, my FC7 with Ashby adapter works perfectly. Smooth, continuous input from 0 to 127.

 

Withtout the adapter, it behaved just as Reezekeys explained.

 

Reeze: besides the adapter I still had to change the polarity setting in the system menu on my FA-08 for it to work. On mine it was a choice between normal and reverse.

 

If you have this parameter available see if that make a difference along with the adapter