Is 61 keys enough for gigging?

[chrismoog]

I'm used to playing an upright piano and have started exploring keyboards for gigging. I will still be playing standard blues and jazz organ and piano but am considering 61 keys for budget an convenience. I'm concerned my solos will be affected by limited keys - or does one learn to work around this?

[yannis D]

Many great solos in blues and jazz combos never used more than the 61 notes-range of a typical 61 keyboard. Jazz organ will be a little more difficult as you will have to split the keyboard if you need the LH bass. If not, 5 octaves is ok (as the upper manual of a B3 organ). As far as piano goes, i believe that 5 octaves is OK, especially in a band context. You're a little restricted, but good ideas can pop out from 5 octaves as well...

[Tusker]

With a professional attitude, one can learn to work around any limitation. I regularly play a 64 key and make do. However your band mates will hear your sense of constraint. Besides there are cheap 88s to be had with decent action (eg Casio Privia). Transitioning from upright piano to keyboards in a band is transition enough. Don't hamper yourself unnecessarily.

 

 

 

Jerry

 

[ITGITC]

61 keys is fine, but not optimal. If you are a piano player, the action will need some getting used to.

 

With that in mind, I went from a 61-key keyboard to an 88-key keyboard with hammer action. I liked the action. Didn't much care for the length & weight.

 

I have a 73-key keyboard now. It has hammer action. It's the best solution for me so far.

 

A 61-key keyboard is certainly not a deal-breaker though.

 

 

[WesG]

If you're going to do that, at least get on that lets you pop the octave up and down with a simple button press, like on the Roland VR-09.

 

But I will caution you that selecting one keyboard for both piano and organ is a mistake for most players.

 

Wes

[chrismoog]

Would you rate the vr09 above the fa06? I'm mostly gigging, not that intersted in production.

[Aidan]

Would you rate the vr09 above the fa06? I'm mostly gigging, not that intersted in production.

 

For gigging, yes I would. The ease of real time control is probably one of the more positive features of the VR09. I believe both use the same keybed have you tried one or both out in a shop? That keybed has received a fair amount of criticism about the pivot points of its black keys, which can make it difficult to play accurately, consistently.

 

As for your original question, you can certainly get away with it, providing you're able to arrange songs on your own terms. If you have to reproduce iconic lines and timbres note for note, not so much.

 

I play off and on in a soul band whose gigs are pretty modest payers and we're usually fitting a five-piece band into the size of a modest packing case. I initially used my Kurzweil and tried to recreate horn parts etc. It was do-able thanks to the Kurz's extreme flexibility but it wasn't the happiest experience.

 

So I decided to play Hammond the whole time, and now carry my SK1 in on my back, and with stand in one hand and bench in the other, I'm almost in on a single carry.

 

The flip side is that I've had to alter my approach to playing some of the tunes, but that's been both creatively enjoyable and good for developing my organ chops.

[Delaware Dave]

I started playing live with 61 keys and used octave switching for piano passages as I found key limitations. Over time 61 keys didn't cut it and I moved to 76 weighted keys (Ensoniq TS12) then to 88 keys. I am now back to 76 keys and can get by for piano. I could now only see using 61 keys for synth and organ parts.

[Reezekeys]

Does it help you if I say I have no problem with a 61-key board? Probably not. Just remember that one major part of gigging is "shlepping." Good luck!

[Al Quinn]

I've done many gigs with just the 61 key Electro 4D. It works fine for blues and rock gigs with a bass player. I use the octave down button to get the lower register for piano intros. It doesn't work well for jazz organ with LH bass (i.e., not enough keys for me to express myself give the lower keys are used for bass). And it doesn't work well for jazz where I use most of the range of the keyboard regularly and spontaneously.

[clavjav]

Recently did a whole 6 month contract with just a 61, and a 49 key. Programmed my way round any problems with parts for songs, and found solos fine. Best part was practically being able to skip off stage with each keyboard under each arm whenever we needed to pack down!

[allan_evett]

61 keys is workable, especially in a basic band context. But it starts to get tricky for me when there are extended piano-focused intros, or multi-octave solos. Trying to do justice to "Unchain my Heart" is one example. Also, anything involving splits and layers tends to compromise the real estate. So for one keyboard gigs I prefer the functions and variety of sound options in my Kronos 61, but am much more comfortable moving around on my JP50. Wish the Kronos was made in a synth-action 76; the 73-key, RH3 model wouldn't work for me, as it's used as a multi-purpose synth. That means covering organ parts at times, which would be brutal on the RH3 action.

[brenner13]

I went to the neighborhood jam a couple of weeks ago with just the VR09; the sounds were great, but kept reaching for low keys that weren't there, especially when playing piano. However, had there been a bass player there, I may have not been so inclined to play those low notes.

 

In my classic rock cover band, the lower octave often steps on the bassman's area so it is actually avoided...still like to have that bottom octave there for piano.

 

 

[Jazzmammal]

This is the classic problem. First, so many great legendary players did their most famous recordings on 61 key DX7's, Wurlies and the like. All were classical pianists first. Same with most of the legendary organists. A B3 is two 61 key manuals. But having said that, I really miss playing my PC3 76 on occasion which was itself a compromise from carrying a huge 55 pound 88 key which I did for years. Now we have 15 pound 88 key stage pianos that sound and feel pretty good.

 

Some here know I built a nice wooden case to house my SK1 on top of my FA06. Most of the time I love it and I definitely love the schlep factor. Both boards weigh 12 pounds each and have great sounds. But, but, but when I'm playing pure piano, it's a chore and yes the action on the FA06 seems like it's getting worse every time I play it, it really sucks while the SK1 for organ is awesome. Now I keep thinking I should dump my wooden case and put the SK1 on top of a Casio PX5s. Such is life.

 

Bob

[Synthaholic]

Is 61 keys enough for gigging?

 

Nope.

[Jazz+]

It's enough with a band where you are simply a link in a chain, , but it's not enough if you are a featured pianist.

[SpaceNorman]

I can certainly make do with pretty much anything ... but the truth of the matter is playing piano on 61 non-weighted keys just isn't very enjoyable. As a result - I schlepp a couple of heavy 88 key monsters. The vast majority of my gigs have me playing a solid 180+ worth of music. The time I spend actually moving my two boards is maybe 4 minutes total. Of that 4 minutes - there's may 1 minute of actually lifting. 4 minutes of real work for 180+ minutes of enjoyable playing is an investment I'm willing to make for my own satisfaction.

[Kenny Ingram]

Really great points here. Many, many variables, however. My first thought: are you playing first or second keys? Maybe it's safe to make the assumption you're the only keyboard player? If so, I could not in good conscience recommend ONLY a 61-key keyboard. However, if you're playing keys 2 (and there's always a guy on the piano parts), you could probably make an exception.

 

I've often considered gigging solely with my XW-P1 if there was already a keyboard 1 player. The situation hasn't come up yet, however, I don't think I'd have much issue playing organs, orchestral sounds, and synthesizer sounds on a 61-key keyboard I'm so familiar with.

[SpaceNorman]

I suspect the nature of your typical schlepp itself probably factors into the decision as well. Most of my gigs are in suburban bars and banquet halls. Most are standalone buildings where it's possible to load/unload right next to a door that is near to stage. There may be an obstacle here or there that gear must be lifted over - but rarely any flights of stairs. More often than not - I case/uncase my keyboards at the vehicle, don one of my "Michael Jackson gloves" and carry my keyboards tucked under my arm (Heisman style) over the 50-70 feet from van to stage.

 

Were I working urban venues or hotel venues - where the distances between the unload spot and the stage can be significant and often involve freight elevators or worse, flights of steps (!) - I'm sure the equation would change for me as well.

 

On a side note - the grip gloves were one of the better purchases I've made. They're cheap enough that I bought a dozen of 'em. I've always got one or two in my gig bag and/or in the keyboard cases. The additional grip the PVC coating provides is better than I can get with bare hands - which makes schlepping stuff a whole lot easier!

[WesG]

Hey, Brenner13 -- a trick you can use with the VR09 (and other similar boards) if you are stuck playing bass at a jam...set up a split so that you are basically missing an octave in the middle of the board. I'll usually set the split point about an octave and a half from the left.

 

This way you can play bass, you can play piano, and you leave the muddy mids for the guitar players.

 

Wes

[mate stubb]

I'm alarmed at all the mentions of the VR09 here. He might get the impression it has a good action or something.

[Jazzwee]

I would be quite uncomfortable with 61 keys for jazz unless I'm just using one hand.

[nadroj]

Is 61 keys enough for gigging?

 

Yes.

[DulceLabs.com]

It really depends on the music and your soloing style. I would hit up a music shop and run through your stuff on a 61, 73/76 and an 88 and see what you like best.

[Doerfler]

It's enough with a band where you are simply a link in a chain, , but it's not enough if you are a featured pianist.

 

THIS

I gigged 8-10 nights a month for 3 years or so 25 years ago with only an Ensoniq EPS as it was all I could afford doing what was current top 40 at the time.

Octave shift is your friend.

[AnotherScott]

I would hit up a music shop and run through your stuff on a 61, 73/76 and an 88 and see what you like best.

Easier still... he's playing an upright. Mask off some keys and just see how it feels to play when restricting yourself to the smaller span(s).

[Brettymike]

Solo's wont usually be limited too much with 61 keys , but for general piano playing 61 keys is near useless.

 

Brett

[Markay]

For organ yes, there a lots of 61 key single manual clones available and used for gigging.

 

For AP possibly not as 61 note boards are not piano action and depending on how much left hand you are playing may require more adjustment than it is worth. This is the age old conundrum of trying to combine synth organ action with decent AP feel.

 

The lowest cost optimal solution is 2 boards, either a XK1c or Numa for organ and for AP starting from a Casio Privia and working up from that if it is not to your liking.

 

[AnotherScott]

Solo's wont usually be limited too much with 61 keys

True... I think the issue with soloing on a 61 largely comes down to what you're doing with your LH while soloing, and whether you have enough keys "left over" for that.

[The Real MC]

Being a piano player, I gigged a 61 key board with an R&B band and it was never enough.

 

61 keys are google is playing Hammond or synth parts, AP or EP it is not enough.

 

As a MIDI controller with multiple splits, don't even think about it.