Heads-up: SpaceStation keyboard amp is apparently back

[Jazzmammal]

Haven't had anything new to add here for while until now. Yesterday I did my first gig with the SS and my Korg Pa1XPro arranger keyboard. Until this gig I only used the SS with my SK1 in bands and everybody in this thread knows that organ sounds great through the SS.

 

This was just me and a girl singer and she asked if I would bring my powered PA speaker which is an EV ELX112P and a mixer. I set the EV vertically on a small riser and the SS sitting on top. That put the top of the SS about 4 feet up.

 

The Korg really puts out a big full range sound. Bass, horns, guitars, drums and of course whatever I'm playing live, usually keys but I did some guitar stuff and horn solos too. She does a whole range of stuff from old 40's jump swing stuff to country ballads to cabaret tunes to classic blues and I did some jazz fusion type instrumentals. The Korg really has some strong styles for that. I've done Thieves In The Temple with bands that didn't sound that good.

 

We were outside at an art festival and started out at a fairly moderate volume but some people said we wern't loud enough so I turned up and man, that's when my rig really came alive. Stereo coming from the top and tons of support from the EV on the bottom. It was a very clean hifi sound and it was loud, I was close to needing earplugs. We did a few ballads where the keyboard is playing drums, bass and a nice stereo string pad and I played an acoustic piano patch over the top. Sounded fabulous. I know there's not a lot of arranger folks on this forum but one very cool feature of my Korg is the full keyboard mode. It takes the chords from whatever I'm playing with both hands anywhere on the 76 keys. Really nice for ballads. I got a lot of comments from people and a lot of it was the sound system with the SS sitting right on top.

 

Bob

[Synthaholic]

Play a CD or MP3 with a Hi Hat, you'll hear it.

My SS3 QC process;

1) Start with a full range signal source (CD or MP3). I use Steely Dan "Babylon Sisters" as my reference song, or sometimes Michael McDonald "What a Foll Believes".BUt any familiar track that was well recorded, not too distorted, and with a full range band.

2) with all knobs off, turn up just the Level about 1/3 to 1/2. This gives you just the 8" woofer fairly loud...so the "bass to low mids" range.

3) Now turn up the "MIDS" level, this powers up the coax 1" compression driver which is centered in the 8" coax woofer...this will bring up the vocal range. I usually crank it to overkill, then back it off to 50%. BTW, 50% is where I "tuned" my SS3 in the design stage...for WIDTH, MIDS and HFQ. This is a good "starting point" for the plug and play crowd.

4) Next bring up the HFQ level (High Freq). Here's where you will hear the Hi Hats start to sizzle. NOTE: if you're playing a Rhodes of Hammond patch there is really nothing in this HF Range to get the tweeter excited...so it may seem like it's not working.

5) Lastly, I bring up the WIDTH level, and feel the stereo patch...which is nice on those above mentioned tracks. Again, try to crank it (yuk, will sound bad I promise...like too much "wet" sounds on any stereo FX box), then back it of top 50% and you will be smiling. NOTE: if using a mono patch, like a straight EP w/o effect...then you will hear NO side speaker and the width control will do nothing. Just turning the width control all the way on/off will also tell you how "wide" the stereo source is)

Once you balance your MIDS, HFQ and WIDTH, the LEVEL will raise and lower the overall SS3 component mix to the required SPL for your application.

NOTE: If using a powered sub "post" SS3 thru the SS3 SUB output (recommended), set the sub level last in the above process. Then your SS3 master LEVEL will also maintain the level balance of the SUB to the SS3.

I'd offer the same suggestions whenr using the SS3 SUB out as a full range send to add a "re enforcement" amp for those double Marshall stack battles with the nearly deaf & over tattooed shredder that just joined the band...be sure to point your Roland KB amp w/ Piezo directly at his good ear :-)

 

Great tips, Aspen - thank you!

 

The few times I've run my subwoofer system with it (a JBL 2226H in a front-facing cabinet, and a crossover) I send it the signal from a an effects send (pre) so that I have independent control over which channels get subwoofer (key bass, drums, a little keyboards) and which don't (vocals) and how much. I tried using the Sub Out on one gig but found I was constantly having to re-adjust the subwoofer volume via it's amp from song to song, depending on my keyboard volume. I hope that made sense...

[jpst]

I've done a number of gigs with the SS3 now (does a cracking job with organ & mini-vent), and the latest was a jazz trio & vocals charity dinner/auction gig (straight piano), where I needed minimal kit, that had to be moved rooms (& down stairs) between sets, from drinks/canapes room to dining hall (in an historic English castle, no less!) (sorry, no pics). I have a cheap lightweight table-type stand that goes really low, and I discovered that the SS3 makes a good seat (with a thin cushion on top, that fits in my keyboard bag). So that cut down on one item to bring (travelling in the drummer's car). SS3 & cushion, PX-5S & stand, music stand, one L&R twin jack cable, power for both, sustain pedal; nice and easy to move, and a good sound!

Only slight down side is that the band wanted me louder (despite front speaker pointing straight at them), but audience perspective (according to singer) wanted me quieter, because there were obviously no placement options.

 

It can be a weird creature, this SS3 - it often seems louder/more present further away, in the audience, than it does on stage. It might be just that the band members are so used to "in yer face" directional speakers for the keys.

I personally quite like it, as a real piano sends sounds "all around" in many directions; general, warm & present rather than "loud", and so does this.

[Synthaholic]

it often seems louder/more present further away, in the audience, than it does on stage.

 

I've noticed this, also!

[drawback]

Last gig I did the stage was very shallow and I had to set up almost on top of my SS. No chance to hear the bloom. The horns were about 4 feet directly in front of me and they heard more of me than I did so I quickly tilted my bass amp back against the wall and directed it up toward me as a mono monitor.

[Aspen]

Last gig I did the stage was very shallow and I had to set up almost on top of my SS. No chance to hear the bloom. The horns were about 4 feet directly in front of me and they heard more of me than I did so I quickly tilted my bass amp back against the wall and directed it up toward me as a mono monitor.

 

Wow, I am really enjoying the diversity of comments here guys, THANK YOU SO MUCH for sharing your real world experiences, and in so doing, keeping this thread among the top (real) musician threads anywhere on the internet. (and certainly the most fun!)

 

I just love reading ALL the gig reports (and I do read them all). Gigs I could only dream about seeing in person. From the "early adopters" like Jazzmammal Bob on his new Nord (I know he'd been wanting that Red KB since I first met him) backing a jazz vocalist with a long lost of standards, to Zaphod's cool stereo enhanced synth video he shared (wow! I put the phones om for that), to "jpst" (need to know the acronym please!) gig in an old English castle no less...wow, how cool is that (actually probably very COLD, I had a company in Birmingham yeras ago and have been on a few castle tours where I forgot to bring that extra pair of socks).

 

But in these last few pages I see a common thread (no pun intended), relating to "placement and bloom" (or lack thereof).

 

So for those of you who are just tuning into the program tonight who will be a part of the next 2 million views...and not wanting to review and read the previous 150+ pages of GAS geekdome that we are...I'd like to offer a piece of "bloom" advice and a "CPS Geek Challenge" for the next time you find yourself in that "too close to bloom" situation (IE: so tight you are sitting on a cushion placed on top of a SS3?):

 

Put your SS3 into "reverse".

 

Huh? One wonders; has Aspen been getting enough sleep lately? (actually yes, as I just spent way too much time painfully listening to Tom Petty's 1st gig revival of Mudcrutch last night at CSUN, where they REALLY could have used about 1/10th the volume...70's Phyco Folk rock @ 125dB SPL)...but I digress.

 

But seriously folks, when "seeking the elusive butterfly of bloom", reflections (which create distance) are your friend!

 

So in a tight situation; do what all good sense tells you is completely insane; point it backwards to face a wall or corner...and see what happens. You may just love that effect!

 

That "reverse" position will usually double the distance from the SS3 to your ears, to your bandmate's ears, not to mention your audience's ears. Remember; your SS3 is a light bulb, not a flashlight. So pointing it into a wall doesn't really change it's "character" so much...it just enhances that 3D CPS bloom!

 

Distance is your friend w/ the SS3, as many have noted here recently (and has been mentioned umpteen times starting back in Season one, chapter two...was that when Clinton was president?)

 

And so I will resubmit at the risk of seeming redundant (or worse, senile) any loss of mids or highs can easily be compensated by cranking up MFQ and/or the HF to compensate.

 

FYI, I often conclude my SS3 demos here at APR studio (which has a decided lack of reflections) by turning the amp around 180 and letting the 1st time listener hear the BACK SIDE of my little speaker...always unexpected and quite the crowd pleaser!

 

Now remember, in my APR studio our big room it is still a fairly small room by club standards, and also I am about 3-5 feet from the wall. So when placed in "reverse". pointed at the wall, it really"blooms" nicely...because that position doubles the distance for the listener.

 

Frankly spoken, you can hardly hear any difference in sound quality listening to the SS3 like this, but you will get TWICE the bloom! And again, a slight bump in MF and HF and you're good!

 

I know this sounds totally crazy and Counter-intuitive (same word?), but you just might be surprised, and you will definitely "amaze your friends".

 

And after all, isn't THAT why we are in this business?

[drawback]

Great post, Aspen!! Usually on tighter stages I'll tilt my SS up horizontally, and that gives me enough... but this particular stage was ridiculously shallow (and with a horn section having to be in front of me) so that placement didn't work this time.

 

But pointing it backwards for the result of doubling the bloom? I must have missed this discussion back in Genesis, but thanks for this tip!!

 

Incidentally I knew the SS was blooming in the room, as the horns heard every note I played and the presence of keys in the sound system was turned down to almost non-existent.

 

Cheers

 

 

 

 

[Joe Muscara]

But pointing it backwards for the result of doubling the bloom? I must have missed this discussion back in Genesis, but thanks for this tip!!

IIRC, it was in Exodus.

[cphollis]

Aspen's latest tip is gold, especially when you really want a near-field sound for monitoring. I position the unit on its side (side-firing speaker facing the floor) and the front-firing speaker away from me towards a wall.

 

The extra few feet of sonic distance give the SSv3 more of a chance to bloom, and the result was quite pleasing, especially with acoustic piano. Yes, I did have to dial in a bit more high-end EQ as the tweeter wasn't facing front anymore, but that was about it.

 

I know it sounds counter-intuitive, but the SSv3 is that kind of amp. Point it away from you and towards the corner/floor -- especially in cramped quarters -- and you'll like the sound that much more. As an added bonus, you'll get to hear what everyone else is hearing.

[rickzjamm]

Aspen,

Sorry for the dumb question that's probably been asked several dozen times & I'm sure it's in the depths of this epic somewhere but... the bass went out on my SS. Does that mean it's the fuse? Lost the bass the other night & am baffled. I was one of your first customers & I'm loving it!!!!!!

 

Thanks

 

[MotiDave]

Aspen,

Sorry for the dumb question that's probably been asked several dozen times & I'm sure it's in the depths of this epic somewhere but... the bass went out on my SS. Does that mean it's the fuse? Lost the bass the other night & am baffled. I was one of your first customers & I'm loving it!!!!!!

 

Thanks

the "bass" as in the main front driver? there is no separate bass in the SS3.

[rickzjamm]

When I turn the width all the way down it sounds puny & when I turn the width back up it grows up.

[Aspen]

When I turn the width all the way down it sounds puny & when I turn the width back up it grows up.

 

Hmmm, now THAT'S a new one on me.

 

You say "went out", so I assume it was fine and then suddenly had this loss of bass issue. The 8" coax woofer has it's own amp (and master level control). so perhaps the Master level pot was damaged, or the 8" speaker...but so hard to diagnose from here. I'll PM you my direct email and we can go thru some check lists, whatever has happened. it is for sure we can fix it.

[rickzjamm]

Thanks Aspen & when they make this into a movie I'll be first in line.

[rickzjamm]

Sent an email to your "contact" on your website.

[MathOfInsects]

Yes, I did have to dial in a bit more high-end EQ as the tweeter wasn't facing front anymore, but that was about it.

 

I don't think I understand the high-end EQ part of this. (CPhollis, I quoted you, but the issue was brought up a few posts earlier as well.) If the SS3 generally doesn't sound right to folks up close because it hasn't "bloomed," and if pointing toward the wall "blooms" it, then shouldn't the sound you hear reflected simply be the "bloomed" sound--meaning, no outlier adjustments needed? How can the "sounds the same from everywhere in the room" thing be true if a reflection (which is theoretically required for proper effect) requires a custom EQ setting to sound better than the otherwise-same settings in the same room?

 

Is the sound that needs the hi-end boost the actual sound that people out front hear? If so, doesn't that mean that it has always needed that boost to sound right, and you just haven't realized it, because the amp is too close?

 

If not, and the people out front hear something different from you, then aren't you hi-ending the ear-drums out of folks if you adjust for your position and not theirs? (And therefore, also, doesn't it mean that the wall isn't really helping after all?)

 

This one seems at odds with the rest of the SS3 value prop.

 

 

[Danny Linguini]

The background (my understanding only, and I apologize if y'all know this or if someone's already posted on it):

 

GrooveTubes developed their SFX technology for keyboard stereo amping, selling the SFX 100 and SpaceStation products. Then Fender bought out their technology, using it in their SFX acoustasonic guitar amps, but not doing anything keyboard amp-wise----except when, in a special deal with sweetwater.com back in 2010, they sold off a last supply of 100 SpaceStations.

 

I bought one of those, and it's been a great keyboard amp, especially loud and very effective in delivering rotary effects. Small, 35 pounds, and built to last (I have used it in over 350 gigs, and it's never had a single issue). If you do a search on the KBC, you'll see I'm not alone in liking it.

 

To the point: I opened my new sweetwater.com catalog, and low and behold, a new company called Center Point Stereo (centerpointstereo.com) is now selling a updated SpaceStation version through sweetwater.com. It looks identical to what I own, although it has a few more tweeking dials. I went to that company's website and the product's Fender pedigree is duly noted.

 

I called Sweetwater, and they do not have these amps in yet, nor have their staff received their tech briefing on it yet. There is no product ad on their website yet, just in the paper catalog.

 

The price is twice ($599) what I paid in 2010. I don't need another, but knowing what I now do about the amp (again if it's the same thing), I'd opine that it's well worth the price.

 

Let me just throw my two cents in here, maybe a nickel ...

 

With 'normal' sound reflection, i.e., where the speaker is pointed toward the audience, they're hearing the direct sound from the triaxial driver first highlighted by mostly reflected sound from the side speaker. Some of that front driver sound is reflected, but it's heard directly first, with all the highs that it throws with it. With this direct reflection method, the front driver is immediately impacted by a reflective surface before any of its sound is heard, so the audience (as well as yourself) is going to hear the output of that front driver indirectly -- everything they hear is reflected, and therefore more 'alive'. But depending on what that initial reflective surface is, you're going to immediately lose a little or a lot of high frequencies (flat, hard, shiny surface = less high frequency loss; soft, irregular or textured surface = more). Remember, the higher the sound wave frequency, the more uni-directional it is. So it makes sense that in that kind of application you might need to compensate for more high frequency loss than usual.

 

I don't know if that makes sense to anybody but me ...

[cphollis]

Makes sense to me, because that was my direct experience. The reflective surface (e.g. a rough plaster wall or similar) can scatter highs and mids. For me, it's sort of "season to taste", and I do prefer a bit of high-end bite in my AP sounds.

[MathOfInsects]

 

With 'normal' sound reflection, i.e., where the speaker is pointed toward the audience, they're hearing the direct sound from the triaxial driver first highlighted by mostly reflected sound from the side speaker. Some of that front driver sound is reflected, but it's heard directly first, with all the highs that it throws with it. With this direct reflection method, the front driver is immediately impacted by a reflective surface before any of its sound is heard, so the audience (as well as yourself) is going to hear the output of that front driver indirectly -- everything they hear is reflected, and therefore more 'alive'.

 

A great explanation. But then, to use the wall, wouldn't you simply need to turn the width down and the volume up?

[Aspen]

A great explanation. But then, to use the wall, wouldn't you simply need to turn the width down and the volume up?

 

Just chiming in here, although I am 100% +1 on sleeping bear's excellent explanation. (thanks SB, a CPS t-shirt is in the mail, PM me w/ mailing address and size).

 

Also a good question and intuitive comment by MathOfInsects.

 

So let me expand on this a bit; this "backwards technique" is more about shortening the DISTANCE of the bloom without changing the BALANCE b/w Front and Side, which is largely unaffected by this repositioning. But the upper range of the "sonics" from the Front system will be negatively affected somewhat, and can be corrected with some slight level adjustments.

 

In fact just turning your SS3 toward a corner or wall will not really result in much level difference the Front/Side balance and/or the stereo "effect". That's because the bulk of the SS3 frequency response (say 100Hz to 8KHz) is carried by the Front woofer and Side full range speaker. And also, the Side speaker is never facing forward anyway, and so this reversed position won't affect the Side speaker sonics or level much.

 

But as sleepingbear rightly points out, the more narrow polar patterns (or dispersion) of the higher frequency components, IE: the APT 1" compression driver and Neo tweeter (which have physically smaller sound waves) will lose a bit of level balance in relation to the 8" woofer, whose larger sound waves are largely unaffected. The more reflective the surfaces of the wall or corner, the less loss...but there will always be some HF level loss. Therefore compensating with a bit more MID and HFQ level gets you back to where you started, sonically speaking.

 

So while turning up the Level and/or down the Width, will also result in more MID and HF level...that will also add more level from the 8" which carries the strongest and widest part of your Front system's frequency response. And that will change your overall CPS balance, resulting in less stereo effect.

 

So if you decide to try this for those closer quarter gigs to enhance and shorten the bloom, so you are better monitoring what folks 8+' away are hearing...I heartily endorse what cphollis suggests; "season to taste". Add a bit more level to the MID and HFQ levels and you can't go wrong.

[ShadowMan]

FOLLOW UP:

 

Going back many pages and posts on this thread, I mentioned issues I was experiencing with my SS3 where there was a discernable "warble" when using a fast rotary sound. I also had issues with low end - so much so that I needed to use a second amp to improve the bass. But I was just never happy with the sound.

 

I couldn't reconcile this with all the great comments others were posting. So I reached out via email directly to Center Point to inquire if what I was experiencing was normal - and immediately heard directly from Aspen. Frankly, as I had purchased from Sweetwater, I expected to be sent back to them... but no, Aspen spent a lot of time walking me through troubleshooting and testing. I sent him some WAV files of my unit and he agreed something was definitely amiss and IMMEDIATELY drop shipped me a new unit. No "provide a credit card number in advance," he just asked my address and rushed me out a brand new unit so I'd have it in time for a big gig. Which says an awful lot about Aspen and Center Point. I'm still overwhelmed, as many companies would have just pushed me back off the vendor.

 

The new amp, of course, rocks - and NOW I know what everyone was raving about. I've used it on several smaller gigs so far to rave reviews from both band members and musicians in the audience. I've got some big shows coming up and am really looking forward to getting a chance to crank it up. So I'm quite a happy camper now!

 

Every company can have a unit or two slip thru QC... that's just unavoidable. But how they stand behind their product says an awful lot. And for the head of the company to get directly involved to resolve an problem says even more.

 

So I thought kudos for Aspen and company were warranted here!

[rickzjamm]

A follow up on my "woofer" problem & some well deserved cheerleading for Aspen.

So Aspen contacted me (here's a fellow who doesn't have to directly help clientele, but he does with authentic kindness & concern) & patiently gave me some very helpful directives on troubleshooting but still nada. After seeing that the troubled SS3 had no "woof" he immediately sent me a new unit bypassing Sweetwater so he could check the old one himself, or as he put it "to learn"... he really cares folks, how rare is that? And yes just in time for weekend gigs & church service.

It shows how much pride & love Aspen has for his baby" & Center Point's more than a faceless sterile corporation. When the very busy CEO of a company takes time to make sure you're happy with his product the true vision of Aspen's artistry is revealed, customer, no I mean friend satisfaction. He's not only a game changer in sonic design and the star of the epic mega SS thread, but a true star in customer care!! I commend you Aspen for not only creating the "cure for the common gig" but creating lasting friendships.

[Doug Robinson]

+1 on Aspen's helpful attitude in troubleshooting and problem solving.

[cphollis]

Still my go-to amp for 90% of my gigs. Love it. I'll probably be playing through it 20 years from now.

[MPN21]

A follow up on my "woofer" problem & some well deserved cheerleading for Aspen.

So Aspen contacted me (here's a fellow who doesn't have to directly help clientele, but he does with authentic kindness & concern) & patiently gave me some very helpful directives on troubleshooting but still nada. After seeing that the troubled SS3 had no "woof" he immediately sent me a new unit bypassing Sweetwater so he could check the old one himself, or as he put it "to learn"... he really cares folks, how rare is that? And yes just in time for weekend gigs & church service.

It shows how much pride & love Aspen has for his baby" & Center Point's more than a faceless sterile corporation. When the very busy CEO of a company takes time to make sure you're happy with his product the true vision of Aspen's artistry is revealed, customer, no I mean friend satisfaction. He's not only a game changer in sonic design and the star of the epic mega SS thread, but a true star in customer care!! I commend you Aspen for not only creating the "cure for the common gig" but creating lasting friendships.

So what was wrong with your first unit?

[rickzjamm]

The black woofer speaker wire was not tightly crimped into the PCB plug that leads to the woofer. I tried soldering but for some reason that didn't work.

[Chromedoggy]

After reading the 4600 previous posts, I decided to grab one today. Thanks for the demo DB!

[MPN21]

Thank you. I wanted to make sure mine doesn't have the same issue.

The black woofer speaker wire was not tightly crimped into the PCB plug that leads to the woofer. I tried soldering but for some reason that didn't work.

[Rofox]

To fill out the bass I first tried an M-Audio BX sub. No matter how it was set up in my room all it gave was a pitchless thump.

That was swapped for a G-K MB110 lightweight bass amp which I fed from the sub out on the SS3. At last, some fundamentals!

The G-K is perfect for playing at home. If I were still gigging more grunt would be needed but this set-up suits my needs.

[Worth]

I have owned my space station for over a year now and have used it in church services and worship environments for audiences of between 30 -450 people in band settings , rehearsals with my vocal group and in one man band setting as I own the korg pa1x arranger keyboard .

 

Like have waited a year to put it through all the scenarios I use my keyboard for before adding my comments to this amazing thread .

 

First of all the positives of this keyboard amp are that it has a small footprint and is loud enough for virtually any circumstance that I have found myself in as a church musician. When playing in a band or choir rehearsals the amp is adequate for my needs and the main purpose I purchased it was for the stereo effect.

 

It lives up to its reputation in every respect concerning this and I am still amazed that this stereo sound permeates everywhere in the audience . There is no other stereo amp like this in the marketplace that I am aware of that is as impressive .

 

However over the last 12 months I have been trying to accustom my ear to the lack of bass response and sadly just can't .

 

I purchased the amp because I did not want to have to carry backbreaking equipment in a small family size car to the various places I play . Father Time unfortunately has taken its toll on my back . It was the manageable weight and and the small footprint of this amp appealed to me. Unfortunately a good 40% of what I do musically involves using my arranger keyboard in arranger mode . And this is where the amp is at its weakest because of its lack of bass response. I have read of the various solutions to this which inevitably mean purchasing another amp in addition to this one. This defeats the whole purpose of acquiring an amp of this size .

 

I will definitely keep the amp as for most of the situations I use it , it's fantastic but I will definitely have to look for another amp solution in the coming months . I need an all in one solution and I was convinced the space station was it . It's was close but not close enough .

 

However I do want to congratulate Aspen on a remarkable product and wish him the best with whatever new products are in the pipeline